Testing is Destroying Our Schools!

[Mkrop]

GREAT! You know what else is formula-driven? Music. Plays. Architecture. Formulas don't kill creativity. Formulas give structure to creativity. You've got to learn the structure before you can get creative.

And when I no longer need to spend hours teaching college graduates how to use commas and apostrophes, maybe we can have longer, more productive discussions about substantive legal arguments.

 

[tvguy]

I suspect we aren't talking about the same thing. If your kids are out of the system, they haven't experienced recent developments in your state. I am not referring to a chapter test I give upon completion of the reading of The Odyssey or The Iliad. I am referring to a climate where our juniors currently miss 15 or more days of instruction for state mandated testing. This comes out of their direct instruction. I'm not referring to ACT's, PSAT's or SAT's. Those are great selling points for schools. What are "those" tests your refer to?

No, we are referring to the same tests. The ones they use in California public schools are the ones private schools used.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Indiana voters provided a major upset int he election this year by ousting the incumbent Superintendent of Schools that had millions to spend by a teacher with limited resources but grassroots support.

Your state has a statewide Education Superintendent that is an elected position? Interesting.

Pennsylvania has a Department of Education. The Secretary is appointed by the Governor.

 

[Mickey527]

I was just having this discussion today with my grandson's teacher.
They test so much in their magnet school that the kids have started getting nervous about any little thing and say they are not smart enough, and get whiny and cry if they can't answer all the questions. They feel and say they are not worth anything because they did not do well on the test of the month.
I do remember taking the IOWA tests when I was younger but that was once a year, now they seem to do the big school testing 3 times a year which is too much for these kids to be losing a full week every 3 months to do standardized tests.

 

[tvguy]

Oh please, that just ridiculous and certainly doesn't say much about the quality of those colleges. Why is it that they were admitting such poor students? You do realize that many, many ivy league and equivalent graduates went to public schools.

Yes, there are many good students coming from Public Schools.
However, the High School graduating class for 2009 (my daughter's class), that entered the California State University System with the highest average GPA, SAT and ACT, and the highest number of students needing remedial English and Math classes. Go figure.

 

[pacrosby]

GREAT! You know what else is formula-driven? Music. Plays. Architecture. Formulas don't kill creativity. Formulas give structure to creativity. You've got to learn the structure before you can get creative.

And when I no longer need to spend hours teaching college graduates how to use commas and apostrophes, maybe we can have longer, more productive discussions about substantive legal arguments.

'Testing' doesn't teach proper use of commas and apostrophes.

No doubt some teachers/schools are failing their students, but testing up the wazoo and teaching to that test is not the answer. As many have pointed out, it seems to have caused more problems than it has solved.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

It is not testing itself that is the problem. You have to have testing. A properly designed test should show to what extent they've mastered the material and whether they can apply what they've learned to situations they've seen and situations they have not. It shows where kids are deficient and where they are not. Proper testing and evaluation is a good thing.

The problem is not testing. The problem is that standardized fill in the bubble testing has been made the be all end all of whether a school gets funded and how much, or even whether teachers and administrators keep their jobs. Teachers and schools are rewarded or given the chop solely on these standardized tests. This is what leads to teaching to the test. Put a person's career on the line via the results of a test and when push comes to shove what is he going to do? Teach to the test. Put a school's very existence on the line and what's that school going to do? Teach to the test. And if a teacher doesn't teach to the test, what's going to happen? They will be selected out when push comes to shove and his students don't perform on the test as well as those that have had it drilled into them. And what is the district going to do when their rankings and such are on the line? Teach to the test. What is that principle going to do when he knows he has a bad student come in for a minor disciplinary problem before the test? Suspend him. So instead of being all about learning and education, it becomes an exercise in how to game the system and cheat the quota.

 

[castleview]

When I was a kid, we took the Iowa tests. We did them on mornings for one week and that was it. NO PREP, no awards, no discussion. Now the kids are taking vitals, DRA, and all sorts of other pre-tests while the teachers have to log every kid's smallest issue that it is weighing them all down. What has become quite frustrating is that the high performing districts (I'm in one), now have to play by the same rules as failing schools whose kids socioeconomic conditions make a huge difference.

In my opinion, the overemphasis on testing is a cunning phase meant to benefit the testing industry and charter school lobby which is being helped along by politicians who want to make it look like they are doing something.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

'Testing' doesn't teach proper use of commas and apostrophes.

I don't know of a standardized test that actually checks that. Not really.

 

[nchulka]

I don't think at my DD's school there is much concern over state-wide testing. They spend 3-4 days on it every spring, but other than suggesting you not plan a vacation over that time not much is mentioned about it.

My issue is the low standards we have come across in the classroom. DD is in 5th grade, getting ready to go to middle school and I'm very unhappy with how easy school is. Practically everyone gets straight A's. When I was in school A's meant something, now they are common and cheap! DD brought home her spelling test and I was shocked. Each word was typed twice, once correct and once very obviously incorrect. The spelling "test" is for the children to circle the correct spelling She says this is how the spelling test have been all year. Of course everyone gets an A every week! She also told me all of their other test, social studies, science, etc. are all open book! I told her that's not a test sweetie, that's a worksheet!! So this is how they are preparing kids for middle and high school, open book test, and multiple choice spelling.

ETA: This is a very nice, good school in the suburbs. In previous years I've been very pleased. I have no idea whats going on with the 5th grade teachers!

 

[rgf207]

That's not the case here. My husband is a high school teacher and he's spent the last four summers writing curriculum. I did the same when I taught junior high.

It's been my experience, both as a teacher and as a parent, that the standards required by testing influenced the skills addressed by the curriculum, but did not dictate how we taught.

see that's how it should be. I like that. at DW's school, the curriculum is lead by a woman who majored in equestrian studies. Yes that's right, horses. She's leading the curriculum.

 

[Claudia1]

This is NOT a political comment!

Yes, our SoS is an elected official. His policies are/were using standardized tests to evaluate teachers, provide money for schools, etc... If a teacher's class did not measure up, they would face losing the job, irregardless if that particular classroom had a significant demographic of Sp Ed students. Testing was to be used for everything and tests were being added every year. Teaching the test was becoming the norm. Many of my teacher friends who are excellent, caring educators were fearful.

Hope its not too late to change the path of our schools. Our kids, our state, and our country deserve better.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

'Testing' doesn't teach proper use of commas and apostrophes.

Absolutely true. As a parent, when I expressed concern in elementary school about this I was assured that the tests were "looking for expression of ideas" and that "grammar would come later". Imagine my when I sat down with the 6th grade (middle school) Language Arts teacher and she complained (and appeared surprised) that the incoming students "couldn't write". Fortunately, somehow, it's come together for high school. But I've had my own kids doing writing projects for ME, knowing how imperative it is for them to be able to write well going forward in school, and life. The whole school experience was so different than my own, it was hard to know how to handle it sometimes, especially not being part of the school or teaching culture. Friends of mine who are teachers seem to have a much better handle on all of it; the rest of us are lost.

 

[LisaR]

Absolutely true. As a parent, when I expressed concern in elementary school about this I was assured that the tests were "looking for expression of ideas" and that "grammar would come later". Imagine my when I sat down with the 6th grade (middle school) Language Arts teacher and she complained (and appeared surprised) that the incoming students "couldn't write". Fortunately, somehow, it's come together for high school. But I've had my own kids doing writing projects for ME, knowing how imperative it is for them to be able to write well going forward in school, and life. The whole school experience was so different than my own, it was hard to know how to handle it sometimes, especially not being part of the school or teaching culture. Friends of mine who are teachers seem to have a much better handle on all of it; the rest of us are lost.

When DD was in kindergarten, DH and I went to an open house at a highly regarded K-8 private school.

We went into an 8th grade Computer Technology classroom where the students had displayed poster boards regarding technology. While walking around the classroom, I realized that either "computer" and/or "technology" had been misspelled on every single poster board. After looking at 15 different boards, I finally had to say something. The teacher said, "I teach computer technology not grammar. These kids should have been taught how to spell long ago. I can only do so much with what I have to work with." Needless to say, DD didn't go to that school.

While that teacher and his response bugged me, I really do get where he is coming from to a certain degree. He has to make it through his curriculum. If he has to stop and teach 8th graders the basics, he'll never get through his own curriculum. On the other hand, insisting they spell the name of the class properly doesn't seem like it would be too complicated.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

When DD was in kindergarten, DH and I went to an open house at a highly regarded K-8 private school.

We went into an 8th grade Computer Technology classroom where the students had displayed poster boards regarding technology. While walking around the classroom, I realized that either "computer" and/or "technology" had been misspelled on every single poster board. After looking at 15 different boards, I finally had to say something. The teacher said, "I teach computer technology not grammar. These kids should have been taught how to spell long ago. I can only do so much with what I have to work with." Needless to say, DD didn't go to that school.

While that teacher and his response bugged me, I really do get where he is coming from to a certain degree. He has to make it through his curriculum. If he has to stop and teach 8th graders the basics, he'll never get through his own curriculum. On the other hand, insisting they spell the name of the class properly doesn't seem like it would be too complicated.

Yes. Something was missing long before 8th grade. But that's what I mean - it doesn't seem to be the focus any more, at least for many.

 

[MrsDuck]

As a teacher, I totally agree.

 

[Mkrop]

'Testing' doesn't teach proper use of commas and apostrophes.No doubt some teachers/schools are failing their students, but testing up the wazoo and teaching to that test is not the answer. As many have pointed out, it seems to have caused more problems than it has solved.

As a kid, I know my standardized testing did. They would give 4 sentences and you have to choose the one that was written correctly. This included apostrophes and comma placement.

My kids in Catholic school get a ton of grammar lessons. We had one young boy leave our school after 2nd grade for reading help and he came back in 6th, his mom had to get him tutoring in grammar because he was so far behind his classmates. He had no idea what a prepostion was in 6th grade!

It is not testing itself that is the problem. You have to have testing. A properly designed test should show to what extent they've mastered the material and whether they can apply what they've learned to situations they've seen and situations they have not. It shows where kids are deficient and where they are not. Proper testing and evaluation is a good thing.

The problem is not testing. The problem is that standardized fill in the bubble testing has been made the be all end all of whether a school gets funded and how much, or even whether teachers and administrators keep their jobs. Teachers and schools are rewarded or given the chop solely on these standardized tests. This is what leads to teaching to the test. Put a person's career on the line via the results of a test and when push comes to shove what is he going to do? Teach to the test. Put a school's very existence on the line and what's that school going to do? Teach to the test. And if a teacher doesn't teach to the test, what's going to happen? They will be selected out when push comes to shove and his students don't perform on the test as well as those that have had it drilled into them. And what is the district going to do when their rankings and such are on the line? Teach to the test. What is that principle going to do when he knows he has a bad student come in for a minor disciplinary problem before the test? Suspend him. So instead of being all about learning and education, it becomes an exercise in how to game the system and cheat the quota.

But I still do not get what is wrong with teaching the materials on the test, why is that a bad thing???? Once again if we are teaching certain math skills for 4th grade and that is what is on the test because School A is teaching to the test, wouldn't School's A students do really well?

 

[monkeybug]

I wish more parents would realize this. Education, real learning, is taking a back seat to practice testing and retesting and more retesting. We are no longer teaching. Please, don't complain to your school teachers or administrators, tell your legislators, because their attempts to hold teachers accountable is simply ruining your child's education. And test developers are enriching themselves at the expense of your child's welfare.

I completely agree! I'm not saying we shouldn't have any testing, of course teachers should test, but I think it should come from the teacher!
We have good friends who are Finnish. They lived here for 4 years and are now back in Finland. I questioned her about schools quite a bit, (because Finnish schools are held in high regard world wide) and she talked about many differences, but two that stood out to me were that they don't teach facts and figures right away (I think they spend three years learning concepts and thinking skills) and that there is no standardized testing. (other differences are that teachers are much higher paid and educated, and that the schools are much more homogenized. Also no private schools.)
I think one big, big mistake many of our schools are making is teaching our kids what to think, but not how to think. In a world where the "what" is becoming increasingly easy to obtain, I think the "how" is going to be the commodity of the future.

 

[disney junky]

Ill try to articulate my frustration. Ive been teaching for 28 years, mostly at the high school level. I have taught all levels, from the technical to the Advanced Placement. I teach at the local community college as well.

I have observed a decline or shift, if you will, from a focus on content to a focus on skills. Instead of teaching a wide variety of the great works of literature, reading them for their insights into the time and place they were written, learning about the author, looking at the meaning of life through the eyes of the artist, we now focus on finding the main idea, whatever that might be. We focus on the meaning of one word in paragraph four of some random passage reprinted from some article somewhere, and if they dont bubble in the right answer, they arent intelligent? They are reading less and less. We test more and more.

I dont think students even understand what once was, to have an intelligent conversation about a book, to connect one work with another; I think were depriving them of some of the great creations of mankind. I fear that students only see education as forced reading for a test, or figuring out a right answer, and that has led us to produce very shallow thinkers.

Sometimes there isnt one right answer. What is Hamlet's tragic flaw? What is the heroic code of honor in the Iliad? There is beauty in poetry, in art, in science, in learning, but I fear we have become so consumed with success on tests, that real learning, the love of learning, of reading a good book, of appreciating art for arts sake is being destroyed.

 

[dsneprincess]

As a kid, I know my standardized testing did. They would give 4 sentences and you have to choose the one that was written correctly. This included apostrophes and comma placement.

My kids in Catholic school get a ton of grammar lessons. We had one young boy leave our school after 2nd grade for reading help and he came back in 6th, his mom had to get him tutoring in grammar because he was so far behind his classmates. He had no idea what a prepostion was in 6th grade!

But I still do not get what is wrong with teaching the materials on the test, why is that a bad thing???? Once again if we are teaching certain math skills for 4th grade and that is what is on the test because School A is teaching to the test, wouldn't School's A students do really well?

The problem I see with "teaching to the test" here is that DS12 (7th grade) is that our state testing for grade x is not really testing for grade x, but grades well below it. My son's test scores are super high, district rating is tops, taxes are high, majority of parents are involved professionals, however, learning is NOT where it should be. Math facts are not "kill & drill", parents are actually encouraged to not have child memorize in elementary school as that is NOT a goal of everyday math program. We had a writing program that did not emphasize spelling or grammar....it will come with time. DS is ok because of his love of reading & our home instruction, but not fabulous. His friends are really stuggling....amazingly enough, in foreign language starting this year spelling counts & parents are complaining because the kids can't spell in English! We have asked repeatedly about handwriting & are told as long as child can read it, it's ok. No cursive since 4th grade: answer no one will write in future, will use stylus or keyboards. I could go on ALL day long.
Science & Social Studies teacher both mentioned at teacher night that some topics may not be gotten to as they lose 30 days of classroom teaching time due to all the state testing in April, May & June. Seriously???? Oh yeah & for this my school taxes for 2012 were just shy of $10,000!
It is VERY hard to accept, as my son is NOT challenged in any class, has a 95+ average with an average of 10 minutes of homework per week, excepting instrument practice. It is still hard to get him to spend 7 hours in school & come home to some sort of home instructions for math & grammar that the school is not teaching!
Sorry to be so long winded, but I feel much better for venting!!!