Terror warnings- debate.

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by Pugdog007
1. Doesn't take a psychic. You are totally predictable.

2. I expect longer waits at security and plan accordingly. It stays top-of-mind and I do not let my guard down.

3. What does it mean? It means cut the partisan "propaganda" crap and get behind your country when she's threatened. Simple as that.

Here comes that "I'm more patriotic, than you are crap, because I'm more of a true believer."

It doesn't make you more of a patriot because you don't have any questions about the government. It doesn't make Three Circles any less of one because he doesn't have blind faith, or obedience.

 

[Eeyore1954]

In the U.S. at least, I think 9/11 taught the gov't. that withholding information, even when there is no specific threat or target identified, is not a good idea. The firestorm of controversy surrounding the Aug. 6th PDB is a prime example. Too many have declared that 9/11 was preventable, if people had been aware of the threat before that date.

So, now the gov't. errs on the side of caution by providing information when it determines it represents a credible threat, especially to the U.S. directly. However, just as with the Aug. 6th PDB, there is no specific information about a target(s). It's not like the terrorist cells are going to draw a map and post it on the Internet.

We have to deal with what is available and using the information we have be alert for suspicious activity. It's the best we can do. Maybe it's all we can do.

 

[vernon]

No one will ever know if they were false or not.

I'm certain that any government can dig up some sort of warning at any time from their intel services to justify their choosing to put out a warning at any time. I would think they get them on an almost daily basis. It's why all the warnings are so all encompassing, they almost never point to a particular type of attack or an area, just a general "all points bulletin". Considering the scant and wrong intel that was used to go to war, I don't think they'd struggle with the morality of putting out a "be alert" warning even if there was no specific reason to do so, particularly if it helped cover their backsides.

 

[jrydberg]

While I agree that the warnings do little, I don't think it's fair to speculate that there is any political motivation for issuing a warning. Sen. Daschle seemed satisfied that there was considerable reason for the warnings. He's not exactly an apologist for the Bush administration.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Okay, I glanced through this, so if what I am saying has already been said, I apologize in advance...

The warnings you are reading on Internet news sites and listening to on the news are a waterdowned version of what has been sent out to law enforcement personnel and those involved in national security. Do you think it really is prudent to release more specific information and scare the crap out of people? Couldn't you see the mass hysteria? Part of national security is to also keep the people calm in times of crisis.

And for those that think that nothing gets stepped up when these warnings come out, you are very wrong. Just because things are not broadcast doesn't mean they aren't happening. I will NOT get into specifics, just know that some things are triggered and occur EVEN without adjusting the threat level.

 

[peachgirl]

What does it mean? It means cut the partisan "propaganda" crap and get behind your country when she's threatened. Simple as that.

That anti- American crap is getting soooo tiresome...

However, I think you're right about what these so called terror warnings mean. This administration trots these warnings out when it suits their purpose, then hopes that we'll all be so scared that we'll "cut the partisan propaganda crap" and get behind "our" country (translated, behind Bush).

Could you please tell me exactly when expressing opposition to those in power in this country became "propaganda crap"???

It's views like yours that scare the hell out of me, not the terrorists.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Could you please tell me exactly when expressing opposition to those in power in this country became "propaganda crap"???

Started back around WWII....This german chap began it I think....What was his name again ? Oh, you know.....the one with the strange little mustache...



(Disclaimer: this message was sarcasm. Any resemblance to prior posts comparing John Kerry supporters to Al Queda supporters is purely...well, intentional, actually )

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by peachgirl
However, I think you're right about what these so called terror warnings mean. This administration trots these warnings out when it suits their purpose, then hopes that we'll all be so scared that we'll "cut the partisan propaganda crap" and get behind "our" country (translated, behind Bush).

What would your reaction be if (heaven forbid) another terrorist attack occurred in the U.S. but no warning was given (just like the Aug. 6, 2001 PDB and 09/11)? I would think that if this occurred the calls for heads to roll would be deafening. And probably rightly so.

It seems like this is a proverbial rock vs. hard place scenario and it seems that it's also a lose-lose situation. If they warn and nothing happens, it builds the tendency of people to beleive they are just crying "wolf" for political reasons. If they don't warn and something does happen ... well, I'd hate to be in an elected federal job on that day.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by N.Bailey
I don't pay any attention to them anymore either.

But......

When something terrible DOES happen, everyone that WASN'T paying attention will scream "Why didn't they warn us".

Mark my words.

(NB, not aimed specifically at you)

 

[caitycaity]

i agree that it's a lose lose situation. an interesting tidbit though: i was on metro this morning and they actually had a station announcement specifically about the new terror warnings. i don't remember them doing that for a long time.

things do get stepped up law enforcement-wise when these warnings come out. i see it all the time around here: whether it's new metro announcements, more security at federal buildings, more metro police on the trains...

 

[Pugdog007]

Originally posted by peachgirl
It's views like yours that scare the hell out of me, not the terrorists.

Right back at ya PG.

 

[peachgirl]

What would your reaction be if (heaven forbid) another terrorist attack occurred in the U.S. but no warning was given (just like the Aug. 6, 2001 PDB and 09/11)?

I could stand outside my door everyday claiming it "might" rain and some days I'd be right. The problem is, after a few weeks of that, no one in the house would bother to take an umbrella with them.

These generic warnings do nothing to help should another attack occur. Had the government came out in August before the 9/11 attacks and given one of these generic warnings, I don't see how it would have saved one single life...at least as far as informing the American public.

I seriously doubt that if and when we are attacked again the public will have any specific warning before it happens. I'd like to believe the government's reaction to it would improve, but given their performance with the governor's plane during RR's funeral, I don't have much faith in that either.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

I wonder why we haven't heard anything about the anthrax investigation lately? Have they ever established if that was really foreign terrorism? Did they ever get closer to finding out who did that?

Maybe if we got more answers, and less vague hysteria causing generic warnings, it would make more sense.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Here comes that "I'm more patriotic, than you are crap, because I'm more of a true believer."

It doesn't make you more of a patriot because you don't have any questions about the government. It doesn't make Three Circles any less of one because he doesn't have blind faith, or obedience.

Do you completely dismiss all the warnings as crap too?

What specifically do you want them to do?

 

[caitycaity]

These generic warnings do nothing to help should another attack occur.

your're wrong. they enable individuals and organizations not privy to classified security info to take precautions or step up security.

this latest warning was a good reminder to me to re-check our emergency supplies at home and in the car, find out what our new emergency procedures were at work since i recently moved into a new building, discuss new emergency plans with dh (again since i have switched buildings and our commute is different now). it reminds me to be more vigilant about my surroundings.

i would also have to imagine that if the government contacted public transportation entities, like metro, without releasing the info to the general public, there would be leaks to the media anyways, in which case people would complain about the govrnment hiding info. from a political point of view, i think it's better to release as much info as they can to the public.

imho, people who say there is nothing they can do when these warnings come out are either the world's most prepared people, or they just don't really care and delude themselves that another attack is unlikely.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by Elwood Blues
Do you completely dismiss all the warnings as crap too?

What specifically do you want them to do?

Do you go into your bomb shelter everytime a warning is elevated? How long do you stay there?

No, the warnings scare me. I usually call my relatives who live around DC and ask them if they've heard about the latest warning.

What do I want them to do? I want GW voted out of office, then we'll see how things go!

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Originally posted by caitycaity

this latest warning was a good reminder to me to re-check our emergency supplies at home and in the car, find out what our new emergency procedures were at work since i recently moved into a new building, discuss new emergency plans with dh (again since i have switched buildings and our commute is different now). it reminds me to be more vigilant about my surroundings.

Goid point, with this and hurricane season I need to go through some things once again.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by peachgirl
I could stand outside my door everyday claiming it "might" rain and some days I'd be right. The problem is, after a few weeks of that, no one in the house would bother to take an umbrella with them.

These generic warnings do nothing to help should another attack occur. Had the government came out in August before the 9/11 attacks and given one of these generic warnings, I don't see how it would have saved one single life...at least as far as informing the American public.

I seriously doubt that if and when we are attacked again the public will have any specific warning before it happens. I'd like to believe the government's reaction to it would improve, but given their performance with the governor's plane during RR's funeral, I don't have much faith in that either.

Touche! That scare during the funeral was a made-for-TV disaster. It was particularly distressing to see a long-term senator (I can't recall his name -- maybe Stephens from AK) leaving the Senate building with his suit jacket thrown over his undershirt, a dazed look in his eyes.

I agree that warnings are probably not going to stop anything. We have started, like caitycaity, getting warnings on our commuter trains. They are so common now, it's almost like the pre-flight speech on airlines. You can almost repeat it verbatim (unless you are flying SWA).

But I think there is some justification for notifying the public if the intelligence gathered indicates an increased threat. Hopefully, we won't become so jaded that we would miss some sign. What would be nice to know is if some of the warnings actually resulted in some plan being stopped. Seems like that's never mentioned.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by peachgirl
I could stand outside my door everyday claiming it "might" rain and some days I'd be right. The problem is, after a few weeks of that, no one in the house would bother to take an umbrella with them.

But you didn't mention there were nasty storm clouds overhead but the storm just passed over.

So don't ***** when you get wet.

 

[Elwood Blues]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
Do you go into your bomb shelter everytime a warning is elevated? How long do you stay there?

No, nothing that severe, but I do pay attention more than usual.

No, the warnings scare me. I usually call my relatives who live around DC and ask them if they've heard about the latest warning.

Good for you. At least you're being somewhat vigilant.

What do I want them to do? I want GW voted out of office, then we'll see how things go!

An Kerry would do things differently, how?