Terrible service at Liberty Tree Tavern - mandatory tip!!

[OhioDVC]

On Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 we had dinner at Liberty Tree Tavern and had a less then magical time. Info as follows:

-Reservations made 6 months out
-6:40pm priority seating time
-Disney requested we arrive 15 minutes prior
-Arrived at 6:20 pm
-Waited and waited and waited
-We were seated at 7:15 pm
-4 tables of 8 were open when we walked through the restaurant
-1 of the tables was open for 15 minutes, - I could see it from the waiting area
-We were seated first of three other open tables for 8
-15 minutes before a server arrived to get drink orders
-two tables, one of 7 and 8 were seated after us and had drinks and salads before our server took our drink orders
-35 minutes from being seated until get got salad and rolls
-45 minutes from being seated until get got the main course on the table, the other two tables had seconds and dessert before we got our main course
-a total of 100 minutes from check in to main course on the table.
-other tables had a server who got drinks, another person who brought the salad and rolls, another server brought the main course and a bus person cleared the table. The one and only server we had did everything for us and three other tables, three of which were all seated at once!!

The bill came with an 18% tip included. I asked for the manager, Mandy, and explained the problem. Due to the poor service, I did not want to leave an 18% tip. Our server provided poor service due to the restaurant manager poorly scheduling available staff. Our server worked alone while others had 3-4 helpers. I requested that the manager compensate me 18% off the bill and still allow the server to get her tip. While the services was bad, she worked has hard as possible but was given just too much work to do. The manager REFUSED!

I said that then I refuse to pay a 18% tip for poor service. The manager REFUSED to take the tip off.

I charged the bill on my credit card and wrote on the receipt "Amount in dispute"

I then went to Guest Services at the front of MK and asked that I be reimbursed for the tip. After waiting for 15 minutes, I was told that the server worked hard and should get the tip. I informed them that I was a DVC member who just purchased 500 points ($56,000) on the members cruise and that I had the signed contracts in my room ready to turn in. I advised them that I was going to tear up the contracts and let DVC know why. I informed them that they were going to lose a $56,000 sale over a $47 tip, and I meant it!!!

It was amazing how fast their attitude changed. I was handled $47 cash in 30 seconds.

I am not CHEAP - but I tip based on the quality of the service. No tip is mandatory for poor service. I realized it wasn't the server's fault for the poor service, that is why originally, I asked for the restaurant to compensate me the 18% and allow the server to keep the 18% tip.

Liberty Tree Tavern will be the last place I eat at when visiting the MK and Mandy is the poorest restaurant manager I have ever run into.

The server got to keep her 18% tip. Supposedly, restaurant management will be talking to Mandy, I am not holding my breath!

Next time - Cape May Buffet!!!

 

[DVC Mike]

I informed them that I was a DVC member who just purchased 500 points ($56,000) on the members cruise and that I had the signed contracts in my room ready to turn in. I advised them that I was going to tear up the contracts and let DVC know why. I informed them that they were going to lose a $56,000 sale over a $47 tip, and I meant it!!!

While I'm sorry that you experienced such poor service at LTT, I winced when I read the above. I think it contributes to the perception that DVC members expect special treatment just because we pre-paid our vacations.

I'm surprised that LTT refused to reduce the tip!

 

[sajetto]

While I'm sorry that you experienced such poor service at LTT, I winced when I read the above. I think it contributes to the perception that DVC members expect special treatment just because we pre-paid our vacations.

I'm surprised that LTT refused to reduce the tip!

Unfortunately this was my exact same reaction. I was right there with you and totally on your side until that moment. I completely understand your frustration with the service you received. I would be upset as well and would make sure I communicated that. However, I wouldn't use the fact that I was a DVC member as leverage for my argument.

 

[OhioDVC]

DVC Mike,

I NEVER asked for or expected special service due to being a DVC member. I mentioned canceling the contracts to show them how TOTALLY displeased I was for a mandatory tip for poor service. While we all like to think Disney is about MAGIC, it is really driven by profits like any other company. When they realized they were going to lose a large sale over a $47 tip, they quickly changed their mind - magic or profit - you decided.

time to get un-winced

 

[sajetto]

DVC Mike,

I NEVER asked for or expected special service due to being a DVC member. I mentioned canceling the contracts to show them how TOTALLY displeased I was for a mandatory tip for poor service. While we all like to think Disney is about MAGIC, it is really driven by profits like any other company. When they realized they were going to lose a large sale over a $47 tip, they quickly changed their mind - magic or profit - you decided.

time to get un-winced

Wow, aren't you touchy? I actually feel a lot more sorry for the CMs at Disney at this point. With that kind of attitude its no wonder you didn't get the response you were looking for from the manager at Liberty Tree

 

[OhioDVC]

Being a DVC member had nothing to do with it.

Having $56,000 in contracts in my hand did.

I never asked for or expect special service as a DVC member, but to express my extreme displeasure over not being taken seriously, I was 110% ready to rip up the contracts to purchase additional ownership in DVC . If Disney does not value me as a customer, DVC member or not, I need to re-evaluate being a return customer.

 

[Lynne M]

Sorry that you didn't enjoy your experience at LTT. It seems that your biggest issue was with the delay in seating you after you checked in. Which really had nothing to do with the server, so I can see why they would not want to remove the tip from the bill.

When you have an ADR, it does NOT mean that you will be seated precisely at your ADR time. It means that you will get the first available table for your party size. During busy holiday periods, it's not uncommon to have a wait for your table - sometimes a long one. Yours was very long indeed, and I would have been very unhappy, too. The servers and the kitchen can also get backed up; also not uncommon.

But this is something that you will most likely experience again at WDW, especially if you plan to visit during holiday weeks. If it's something that you really can't tolerate, then I'd seriously consider getting out of your DVC contract. You won't be happy.

 

[OhioDVC]

Wow, aren't you touchy? I actually feel a lot more sorry for the CMs at Disney at this point. With that kind of attitude its no wonder you didn't get the response you were looking for from the manager at Liberty Tree

Funny, I didn't remember seeing you there when I discussed the situation with the manager in a calm, business like manner. No inappropriate language, no loud voices, a purely business discussion. What "attitude" are you assuming?

 

[WolfpackFan]

Okay, let me see now. You got poor service, but want the server to keep her tip while the restaurant manager himself reimburses you for the tip. Then you threaten to cancel your DVC contract because of bad service at one restaurant. Interesting. It's a shame you spent the entire meal keeping track of what tables were getting what kind of service. Seems to me that it would have been a whole lot more productive to ask for the manager after about 30 minutes into your 100 minute ordeal instead of waiting until the end to complain.

 

[drag n' fly]

I agree that tips should be earned not expected. You did not ask but you did expect something by mentioning your pending DVC contract. It had nothing to do with magic or profit it had to do with someone possibly losing their job over a 47 dollar tip. You also had some responsibility in bringing your concerns forward during your time at the restaurant. Quite often you read about people complaining about poor service but did nothing until it was time to pay the bill. I suggest you sould have politely asked for assistance when your drink orders were slow being taken. People who own 50 points should receive the same treatment as someone who owns a larger contract.
Remarks such as mentioning your contract and the amount being paid for it was well ummmmmm......tacky and arrogant.

 

[sajetto]

Funny, I didn't remember seeing you there when I discussed the situation with the manager in a calm, business like manner. No inappropriate language, no loud voices, a purely business discussion. What "attitude" are you assuming?

By your quick reaction to DVCMIKE's reserved response it created what I consider to be a rather astute observation..... Yes, I'm sure you were very pleasant.

 

[OhioDVC]

I agree that tips should be earned not expected. You did not ask but you did expect something by mentioning your pending DVC contract. It had nothing to do with magic or profit it had to do with someone possibly losing their job over a 47 dollar tip. You also had some responsibility in bringing your concerns forward during your time at the restaurant. Quite often you read about people complaining about poor service but did nothing until it was time to pay the bill. I suggest you sould have politely asked for assistance when your drink orders were slow being taken. People who own 50 points should receive the same treatment as someone who owns a larger contract.
Remarks such as mentioning your contract and the amount being paid for it was well ummmmmm......tacky and arrogant.

UMMMMMMMM- everyone deserves the same service!

I didn't try to make this a novel. My wife talked with the manager once and I talked with the manager another time during the night.

I identified, specifically, what I considered as poor service. The manager refused to reduce the tip for poor service, but I guess you would consider that friendly and helpful.

At Guest Relations, they also refused to reduce the tip, but I guess that also doesn't count as tacky and arrogant.

When GR told me that they were not going to do anything about the tip, I advised them that I was not satisfied and would pursue the issue through other means.

THEY (GR) asked what I was going to do. I then said I was going to cancel the contracts with a letter of explanation as to why to DVC and see if DVC could convince restaurant services that this was the wrong way to treat people. An effect way to get their attention when MK restaurant services refuses to listen to reason.

But you go ahead and pay an 18% tip for slow poor service. I'll expect to receive what a I pay for and willing tip for good services.

As a side note - before we left the restaurant I talked with our server, Lorriane, and explained that we were not happy with the service, but that we did not feel it was her fault. She actually thanked us. She said that the manager was constantly working the servers short-staff and in her opinion, felt totally overworked. She hoped that maybe the manager would finally listen because the restaurant was receiving a lot of complaints lately.

Now - do me a favor. Answer me this - I've notice that when people point out problems with Disney there is always a few zealots that jump on people for pointing out less then magical experiences at Disney. I visit Disney because I get the best vacation experience compared to other destination, but the Mouse isn't perfect!!! Any business must constantly evaluate its place in the market and the service it provides versus its competition. There has been times when I've been dissatisfied with Disney, but mostly, I'm very pleased with the experience. When things are not right, I voice my opinion and ask for it to be corrected. If we never say anything, nothing will ever get better.

But if it is not your style, continue to tip for bad service and things will stay the same.

PS - no one should ever lose their job over one bad comment. I'm sure Disney management is better then that, but IF someone isn't meeting standards in their position, maybe Disney should provide additional training or find them an area where they can excel!

I was promise a letter from MK restaurant services - Ill let you know what the response is once I get it.

 

[angelmav]

By your quick reaction to DVCMIKE's reserved response it created what I consider to be a rather astute observation..... Yes, I'm sure you were very pleasant.

Sajetto, I think your piling on a bit with your comments. This is one of the negative aspects of having a service charge for tips. Had it been left to the discretion of the customer, perhaps this could have been avoided. When you have a problem with service, wait etc to the point you feel you justified in speaking to management, and said management refuses to do anything about it, it escalates the situation even further.

I would think that when you wait for close to 2 hrs for your main course, you have plenty of time to observe what type of service the other tables around you are receiving which can do nothing but add to the aggravation.

 

[OhioDVC]

Just a side note. I did not sit by with a stop watch checking out the service.

My sister-in-law was with us and she is a registered Dietician and has been in food service management for over 20 years. She currently teaches at a medium size university, about 16,000 students. She was very observant about the restaurant service. She was hoping on bring back very positive examples of food service management back to her students. That is was I had detailed info on the service. It came from her observations due to her personal interest.

 

[jarestel]

I would hope that if Disney really thought the OP's demands were out of line, they would have simply said (and continued to say) sorry, but no, you're not getting your tip back. Since they relented one can only assume that there was some substantial fire underneath all of that smoke.

But all's well that ends well. However the OP's story illustrates perfectly why I avoid WDW like the plague during holiday periods. No sense tempting fate.

 

[wildernessDad]

I agree completely with DVCMike.

 

[IloveDMB]

As a side note - before we left the restaurant I talked with our server, Lorriane, and explained that we were not happy with the service, but that we did not feel it was her fault. She actually thanked us. She said that the manager was constantly working the servers short-staff and in her opinion, felt totally overworked. She hoped that maybe the manager would finally listen because the restaurant was receiving a lot of complaints lately.

PS - no one should ever lose their job over one bad comment. I'm sure Disney management is better then that, but IF someone isn't meeting standards in their position, maybe Disney should provide additional training or find them an area where they can excel!

I'm sorry but if it wasn't her fault as you say, then why would you want her tip taken away? The 18% was hers, not the restaurants.

And if it wasn't her fault, then what standards isn't she meeting?

I'm sorry, I'm trying to understand the situation. As a former server, I'm always interested in customer's interpretations of "bad" servers.

 

[BriarRosie]

I can't see how everyone seems to be missing the point.

I am reading this and thinking, the OP had bad service that he attributed to bad management, not the server herself. He felt he had a valid complaint (and I tend to agree here) that because his server was carrying a load by herself while other tables were getting 3-4 servers helping, it was affecting the way HE was getting service....or the lack thereof.

While I agree that perhaps the reduction would not be the tip itself (but perhaps the meals themselves comped to equal roughly the tip amount) so that the server wasn't penalized...I agree with that.

I didn't agree with using pending DVC contracts as leverage, but that's just my opinon as a DVC member. But I can understand that if nobody was taking his complaint seriously, that really hit the nail home.

And what he did wasn't just for his own benefit. If LTT continues to be as inefficiently run as it was that night, I'm sure many people will be complaining to the manager and Guest Relations time and again. If WDW restaurant management would investigate this issue further, perhaps the problem will get addressed and fixed.

WDW is full of red tape bureaucracy, but every once in a while, you'll find cast members who actually do care enough to try to fix problems.

 

[drag n' fly]

UMMMMMMMM- everyone deserves the same service!

I didn't try to make this a novel. My wife talked with the manager once and I talked with the manager another time during the night.

I identified, specifically, what I considered as poor service. The manager refused to reduce the tip for poor service, but I guess you would consider that friendly and helpful.

At Guest Relations, they also refused to reduce the tip, but I guess that also doesn't count as tacky and arrogant.

When GR told me that they were not going to do anything about the tip, I advised them that I was not satisfied and would pursue the issue through other means.

THEY (GR) asked what I was going to do. I then said I was going to cancel the contracts with a letter of explanation as to why to DVC and see if DVC could convince restaurant services that this was the wrong way to treat people. An effect way to get their attention when MK restaurant services refuses to listen to reason.

But you go ahead and pay an 18% tip for slow poor service. I'll expect to receive what a I pay for and willing tip for good services.

As a side note - before we left the restaurant I talked with our server, Lorriane, and explained that we were not happy with the service, but that we did not feel it was her fault. She actually thanked us. She said that the manager was constantly working the servers short-staff and in her opinion, felt totally overworked. She hoped that maybe the manager would finally listen because the restaurant was receiving a lot of complaints lately.

Now - do me a favor. Answer me this - I've notice that when people point out problems with Disney there is always a few zealots that jump on people for pointing out less then magical experiences at Disney. I visit Disney because I get the best vacation experience compared to other destination, but the Mouse isn't perfect!!! Any business must constantly evaluate its place in the market and the service it provides versus its competition. There has been times when I've been dissatisfied with Disney, but mostly, I'm very pleased with the experience. When things are not right, I voice my opinion and ask for it to be corrected. If we never say anything, nothing will ever get better.

But if it is not your style, continue to tip for bad service and things will stay the same.

PS - no one should ever lose their job over one bad comment. I'm sure Disney management is better then that, but IF someone isn't meeting standards in their position, maybe Disney should provide additional training or find them an area where they can excel!

I was promise a letter from MK restaurant services - Ill let you know what the response is once I get it.

I just wished you had not dropped the DVC comment in there as it reflects on owners as a whole. I never tip for bad service. Honestly if I had to speak to someone that many times that you did I would of walked. What it boiled down to was an expected tip on behalf of the server not a earned one. If you were on the 2007 DDP I could understand them adding the tip. You certainly were treated poorly and the person handling the problem does need some management and interpersonal training. I am certainly not disagreeing with your concerns they are valid and they happen daily, I stayed at the the Grand Californian last week and believe me we recieved a level of service that was no where equal to what we were paying so I understand your frustrations....again it was the DVC comment that bothered me.
Good luck with the outcome please let us know how it was handled.

 

[sarose]

Didnt read all the responses, but I dont blame you. Actually a tip is worked for and a reward for a job well done. When it is given w/o effort, why work hard? Why go the extra mile? So since the tip is given, why not just treat the customers any way? Why did it take Disney looking at a contract to honor their customer? I was raised that the customer is always right. It is good business. I dont think the OP was looking for special privlages, just results and he took it to the extreme to get there. why did he have to take it to the extreme?