Tell Me the DOWN side of this

[Lupin]

Originally you asked about the downside of the DVC. So here's what I've observed over the years as a DVC member with the Beach Club and Saratoga Springs.

Room availability is becoming harder to come by. This could be due to the fact that Disney is having good success selling the DVC throughout their parks and resorts. I tried to make a reservation in the first two weeks of December, typically a low time in terms of resort and park attendance, and I couldn't find a single studio available for 5 consecutive nights in any of the DVC resorts. I also tried booking this 6 months in advance which used to be ample time for room reservations. Maybe that time of year is now more popular with Mickey's Very Merry Christmas - who knows. It's all speculation from my end.

Dining reservations for that time weren't quite as bad though so I was able to book pretty much everything I wanted. But...then Disney announced a free dining promotion for non-DVC resort guests for that time and now just about everything is booked up. Of course Disney is only offering the free dining incentives because of the recovering economy, so these waves of offers will come and go over the years.

I guess my point is that booking a trip to WDW with the DVC may require reservations many months in advance. Planning a trip a month or two in advance in the resort of your choice, especially Bay Lake Towers, may be very difficult to pull off.

Also, since becoming a DVC member, the number of member perks such as dining and store discounts have slowly rescinded.

Enough with the bad though. The greatest benefit is that you have access to some of the finest resorts on the Disney property. My parents are looking to retire in a few years and plan on spending a month each year at Disney on property using nothing but DVC points.

 

[Ka-chow!]

But let's be a little conservative and assume we might get a 40% discount every other year. So we restate the GF rate to 80% of current rack rate.

Your witness, counselor...

Hold on there Clarence Darrow.

A little conservative? You are being quite conservative.

Those types of financial assumptions are fundamentally flawed. You can't compare deluxe rack rates to DVC:
1) DVC properties are distinct from deluxe resorts. DVC has pros (larger) but there are also cons (no daily housekeeping and generally, less staff and fewer resort amenities) when compared to deluxe resorts. Because of those differences, they are not equivalent, and not comparable.
2) And you can't compare DVC with rack rates because NOBODY SHOULD EVER PAY RACK RATES*. Maybe newbies pay rack rates when they don't know any better. If someone has a little experience and knowledge, there is really no excuse for rack rates.There are usually lots of discounts or add ons if you are a little flexible. The last three times, even during Easter break, I've easily gotten 35-40% off, either by room discounts or free add-ons.

*Unless the trip has to be Christmas to New Years week.

 

[CarolAnnC]

Just a reminder to please keep our postings to the topic at hand here.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Chuck S]

I tried to make a reservation in the first two weeks of December, typically a low time in terms of resort and park attendance, and I couldn't find a single studio available for 5 consecutive nights in any of the DVC resorts. I also tried booking this 6 months in advance which used to be ample time for room reservations. Maybe that time of year is now more popular with Mickey's Very Merry Christmas - who knows. It's all speculation from my end.

Two thing are contributing to this. Early December has historically been a very popular time for DVC reservations...low points and all the Holiday activities are operating. DVC resort busy times do not necessarily follow cash WDW busy times.

Also, more and more members...with more members buying smaller contracts, there is more competition for any reservation. For instance, if 5% of members want to travel in early December, and there are 1000 members with 300 point contracts, then there are 50 people trying to book that time frame. Now, if there are 3000 members with 100 point contracts, there are 150 people trying to book that time frame. So competition for any room is increased when the percentage of ownership with smaller contracts increases.

 

[Brian Noble]

The fundamental premise of DVC is that Disney will sell you lodging at a nice discount, but in exchange you are committing to Disney vacations for many years to come. So, to me, the big downside is the risk that your vacation preferences might change. It is true that you can use DVC for non-Disney options, but those are singularly poor values.

 

[adminjedi]

The fundamental premise of DVC is that Disney will sell you lodging at a nice discount, but in exchange you are committing to Disney vacations for many years to come. So, to me, the big downside is the risk that your vacation preferences might change. It is true that you can use DVC for non-Disney options, but those are singularly poor values.

Good simplification....down the core.
We know our family enjoys Disney style vacations. We looked at the cost over the years, and made an informed decision. It works for us.

 

[Ka-chow!]

Just a reminder to please keep our postings to the topic at hand here.

Thanks everyone!

(Thanks CarolAnn!)

 

[Snurk71]

Hold on there Clarence Darrow.

A little conservative? You are being quite conservative.

Those types of financial assumptions are fundamentally flawed. You can't compare deluxe rack rates to DVC:
1) DVC properties are distinct from deluxe resorts. DVC has pros (larger) but there are also cons (no daily housekeeping and generally, less staff and fewer resort amenities) when compared to deluxe resorts. Because of those differences, they are not equivalent, and not comparable.
2) And you can't compare DVC with rack rates because NOBODY SHOULD EVER PAY RACK RATES*. Maybe newbies pay rack rates when they don't know any better. If someone has a little experience and knowledge, there is really no excuse for rack rates.There are usually lots of discounts or add ons if you are a little flexible. The last three times, even during Easter break, I've easily gotten 35-40% off, either by room discounts or free add-ons.

*Unless the trip has to be Christmas to New Years week.

Just a refresher, my example was in response to the statement that staying in a 1BR couldn't be financially sound compared to a regular cash resort room. So I shared our personal experience and vacation habits/styles as an example of where it did make fiscal sense. The goal wasn't to place values on amenities for a cash resort to DVC comparison - that would be a very subjective exercise and one I wouldn't get into (perceived value). This was purely about dollars and cents, fully knowing the differences between cash resorts and DVC resorts.

I'm suprised to read that only newbies pay rack rate - do you supplant the discounts when Disney doesn't offer them in your world of absolutes? Maybe you missed reading the beginning of my post where I said we stayed GF every year for about 10 years straight (usually 1st or 2nd week of Dec) - that's not a newbie. And since you might have missed that first point, you might have also glossed over where I said we used to get discount rates every year (got $199/night for a GV many years in the early in the early 2000s) but were striking out the past few years. We know about AP discounts, Disney Visa discounts, other special discount codes from our TA (we always looked for ourselves and also had a WDW specialist on our reservation team) - we even knew about Magic Kingdon Club before it's demise many years ago.

So...

If you'd like to challenge my example (which is more conservative than our actual numbers) from an analytical basis without a coulda/woulda/shoulda, I welcome it. Remember though, your limited experience (nor mine) is not a 100% rule of what everyone else's experience is. So we would be best to steer clear from absolute statements like "NOBODY SHOULD EVER PAY RACK RATES".

And by the way, I was conservative towards the cash room, not DVC. I'm not getting 8% return on my short term money - are you? And I used a conservative balance of high point needs - BLT LV across Choice and Dream seasons. If you'd like me to run the numbers based on a 2-3% cost of cash, maximizing points by using some SV rooms, lighter point seasons, and occasional stays at OKW/BWV/SSR - I'd be happy to share the not-so-conservative numbers that most would probably actually realize. I was being pretty objective and fair though.

Are we ready for closing arguments?

 

[angelmav]

Just a refresher, my example was in response to the statement that staying in a 1BR couldn't be financially sound compared to a regular cash resort room. So I shared our personal experience and vacation habits/styles as an example of where it did make fiscal sense. The goal wasn't to place values on amenities for a cash resort to DVC comparison - that would be a very subjective exercise and one I wouldn't get into (perceived value). This was purely about dollars and cents, fully knowing the differences between cash resorts and DVC resorts.

I'm suprised to read that only newbies pay rack rate - do you supplant the discounts when Disney doesn't offer them in your world of absolutes? Maybe you missed reading the beginning of my post where I said we stayed GF every year for about 10 years straight (usually 1st or 2nd week of Dec) - that's not a newbie. And since you might have missed that first point, you might have also glossed over where I said we used to get discount rates every year (got $199/night for a GV many years in the early in the early 2000s) but were striking out the past few years. We know about AP discounts, Disney Visa discounts, other special discount codes from our TA (we always looked for ourselves and also had a WDW specialist on our reservation team) - we even knew about Magic Kingdon Club before it's demise many years ago.

So...

If you'd like to challenge my example (which is more conservative than our actual numbers) from an analytical basis without a coulda/woulda/shoulda, I welcome it. Remember though, your limited experience (nor mine) is not a 100% rule of what everyone else's experience is. So we would be best to steer clear from absolute statements like "NOBODY SHOULD EVER PAY RACK RATES".

And by the way, I was conservative towards the cash room, not DVC. I'm not getting 8% return on my short term money - are you? And I used a conservative balance of high point needs - BLT LV across Choice and Dream seasons. If you'd like me to run the numbers based on a 2-3% cost of cash, maximizing points by using some SV rooms, lighter point seasons, and occasional stays at OKW/BWV/SSR - I'd be happy to share the not-so-conservative numbers that most would probably actually realize. I was being pretty objective and fair though.

Are we ready for closing arguments?

You have certainly made the case on why DVC works for YOU, however I would say that your personal example (staying 10 years straight at Disneys flagship and most expensive Deluxe resort) is not a typical example of most peoples vacation habits.

That said, and given your earlier statement in regards to how long it 'could' take to turn in your favor, havent you actually accepted less to save money over ? how many years, by settling for OKW or SSR on some trips when you were accustomed to a GF GV?

I do think it is a fairly valid arguement that unless your traveling at absolute peak holiday season, that assuming rack rate is a bad and less than accurate comparison.

 

[chalee94]

I tried to make a reservation in the first two weeks of December, typically a low time in terms of resort and park attendance, and I couldn't find a single studio available for 5 consecutive nights in any of the DVC resorts.

as chuck said, the period from thanksgiving to new years is one of the highest demand periods of the year for DVC.

just because park attendance is down in early december doesn't mean you'll see the same demand levels for DVC. if there's any period where you should book your home resort at 11 months out and - if you want to try a different resort - call first thing at the 7 month window, it's that period in late nov to the first of january.

 

[VAN]

I recently requested DVC info ... knew a lot about it, just not the prices.

FOR US, DVC is not worth it from an economic standpoint. Even for a minimum purchase, it is quite a bit ... then add the annual fees. Even though we have the money to pay cash, we don't mind staying at value resorts, as it provides a wonderful vacation environment for us (pool, clean room, comfortable beds, etc).

Sure, I'd love to stay in a deluxe or a DVC room; however, I'm just tight enough with my money to not NEED a fancy/expensive abode to enjoy my time at WDW.

I don't fault anyone who buys into DVC ... it's just from an economic/investment standpoint, I think it might be a stretch for most people. The DVC purchase does stand-up from an emotional point of view ... e.g. I OWN a piece of Disney, etc.

Everyone is different - no right or wrong answer here.

 

[Snurk71]

You have certainly made the case on why DVC works for YOU, however I would say that your personal example (staying 10 years straight at Disneys flagship and most expensive Deluxe resort) is not a typical example of most peoples vacation habits.

Let's try this one more time - my post was in response to someone stating that you'd NEVER save money comparing a cash room to a DVC 1BR. So I just showed, even if it was just my one instance, where that wasn't an accurate statement. I never said our traveling experience was typical (though after living on the resorts board for years there are a fair number that do stay at a deluxe every year - even GF - and most here seem to concede with a general guideline that if you stay deluxe frequently that DVC has a good chance to be fiscally positive for you) - I just shared the numbers and analytics that you can save money on a 1BR over a cash room. That's all.

I'm a financial/numbers guy professionally, so I have faith in my numbers that I've disproved the notion that you can't make out on the positive side by switching to a 1BR.

That said, and given your earlier statement in regards to how long it 'could' take to turn in your favor, havent you actually accepted less to save money over ? how many years, by settling for OKW or SSR on some trips when you were accustomed to a GF GV?

I don't think I'm accepting less. I chose to switch our kind of stay - from a single cash room at GF with its amenities for DVC (mostly BLT stays) with its amenities. I don't know how often I'll stay at OKW/SSR, if ever. We're staying BCV this Oct during F&W - choosing to switch from BLT not for the point savings (though we are saving 26 points), but because BCV is the more desirable resort at this time or year. If we ever do stay OK/SSR, my guess we'll do it with an upgrade to a 2BR or GV at those lower point resorts. So is a 2BR or GV at OKW "less" than a GV room at GF? In some ways yes, and in other ways no. And even though I'm a left-brained analytic, this is a subject I'm not going to overanalyze and try to assign "values" to. In our short experience of moving to 1BRs over the GF cash room, we're pleased with the change to the 1BR - I like having a living room and full kitchen, even if we don't ever cook like some do.

Also, in my example I didn't assume any "lesser" stays in the numbers. I stuck with the high point BLT in higher seasons and showed that turning a positive money picture. I just added that if I/someone did some "typical" DVC utilization that the numbers turn better even sooner.

I do think it is a fairly valid arguement that unless your traveling at absolute peak holiday season, that assuming rack rate is a bad and less than accurate comparison.

I agree, and that's why I didn't assume rack rate. I assumed a 40% discount every other year - so I started the current year cash room at 80% of rack rate. Again, this mirrored our experience over the past few years.

So, are we good here yet?

 

[gerrym51]

have owned OKW since 1993. then 56 dollars a point. have also stayed using cash when points used up.

DVC may not be a big savings BUT also would not always stay in the beautiful and large one bedroom at OKW..


as the commercial goes PRICELESS

 

[rugman1969]

I regret it! Here I am, 10 years later, and my annual dues are up more than double from the original purchase, and my points don't do anywhere as much as they ued to. I would be honest, I would rent points from someone before I ever buy into DVC again. I wish I had known you could rent points from others before I bought. Today, I would rent points from others, or I would buy into a timeshare around Disney. Much Much cheaper, and no monthly dues. One of the biggest things is DVC eperks are so minimal, there's no use in even trying to use them. If the perks covered discounts on park tickets, dining plans, and a few other things, it would probably work itself out. But alas, no such luck. 10 years ago, no regrets. Today, one of my biggest regrets.