Teens face crackdown at Downtown Disney

[G8RFAN]

Future Seminoles..... Yep, don't like em already. GUILTY!




Actually, when I read this earlier today and read that William's mother was a manager at Disney, my first inclination was that she apparently could pull no strings and that was bad. But in hind sight, if these kids really did not do anything wrong and were not disrespectful to security and sheriffs, the fact that they still banned an employee's kid tells me that they deserved what they got. We had similar complaints at the local mall when they decided to crack down on "gang" activity. If kids are polite and respectful, I suspect regardless of race, they will be welcomed. I'm sure Disney does not want to discourage locals from visiting DTD by making them feel they have to buy something.

 

[thefirebuilds]

thats funny. probably picked the wrong two to toss out.

here is a corrected link:

http://orlandosentinel.com/communit...07jun27,0,4324652.story?coll=orl_tab01_layout

all that said, there are plenty of blacks at disney, I dont think they are guilty of profiling, but not being in their shoes i couldnt say. Im happy to see any teens tossed from anywhere, regardless of race they're all a blight on society until at least 23.

 

[thefirebuilds]

reason enough as far as im concerned:

At one point, the teens tried to enter the Pleasure Island complex of nightclubs after 11 p.m. when entry switches to those 21 and older. They declined to go to the movies as suggested and said they were at Downtown Disney to pick up girls, Krantz said he was told.

 

[ChrisFL]

banning for life, among others, the son of a civil rights lawyer? Why do I get the distinct impression that we haven't heard the end of this case yet?

 

[dementia412]

Honestly I think black people are more likely to take being confronted by guards or police poorly because they believe they are being confronted due to their skin color (and some of the time it may be true that was the original reason), and that their reaction tends to cause them getting into more trouble. That was absolutly the case with cars being pulled over in in OH. It was so clear; more white people were pulled over, but they generaly acted cool, calm and collected. The black people pulled over were more likely to get defensive or act guilty (even when they weren't)... so their cars were being checked way more often for drugs, therefore they were arrested more often. The white people with drugs... most of them probably slipped through police hands because they did nothing to get the police suspicous.
Now in this case, the teens were doing something wrong.. they tried to get into the over 21 area, were not at a movie they payed to go see (very odd), and refused to go watch it or leave (like they wanted to get in trouble)..... BUT it does seem very odd that 45 of 46 banned people were black! That is so lopsided there has to be a problem here.... not all gang members are black, so even if all of those people were gang members it should not be that one sided.

 

[gottaluvdisney]

My friends got removed from Pleasure Island before for dirty dancing. My friend was sucking a man's thumb.

We are all white. It happens. It is private property - if they don't want you there, they will ask you to leave. If you don't leave, that is your fault.

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

banning for life, among others, the son of a civil rights lawyer? Why do I get the distinct impression that we haven't heard the end of this case yet?

Do I smell "set up"!

My son came out of a movie around midnight a couple Saturdays ago with a friend, both under 21. Neither was allowed to cut through PI to get to their cars. They are white. But they didn't mouth off to the guards either.

BobK/Orlando

 

[Uncleromulus]

"Just chilling"?
Sounds like another way of describing loitering--which is what this group was obviously doing.
Glad to see Disney keeping up the pressure.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Edited-not relevant where placed in merged thread.

 

[crazy4wdw]

Disney walks a tightrope with teen crackdown

Scott Powers and Mark Chediak | Sentinel Staff Writers
June 28, 2007

In trying to rid Downtown Disney of loitering teens -- and possible street-gang members -- Walt Disney World is wrestling with a dilemma faced for years by shopping malls, movie theaters and other semi-public places operated by private businesses.

With the help of off-duty Orange County deputy sheriffs, Disney security officers have expelled dozens of youth and banned them from returning to the resort the past two weekends. But as details of the crackdown emerged this week, it appeared that all but one of those banished were black or Hispanic, and some of the teens and their parents have accused Disney of targeting minorities.

Disney officials would not respond publicly to such allegations, and on Wednesday they remained steadfast in their assertion that a crackdown on loitering youth was necessary. When asked if the resort was rethinking its strategy in light of complaints about racial profiling, spokeswoman Jacquee Polak said Disney has been listening to its guests. Still, the crackdown was likely to continue at least for one more weekend, she said.

"Our guests are telling us that they appreciate our efforts. And we have seen a decline in the loitering behavior," she said.Disney also heard Tuesday from some of the families of four black teenagers -- all Florida State University football prospects -- who were expelled from Downtown Disney last weekend. The four included the son of a Disney manager and the son of a Philadelphia civil-rights lawyer.

Some of the family members accused Disney of targeting young black men. Disney said it was simply trying to remove loitering youth.

"You can wait for things to happen and then arrest those people, but by that time it would be too late," said University of Central Florida hospitality dean Abraham Pizam, who has written books on theme-park security and safety. "Or you can start watching those individuals who may be suspicious and try to prevent them from doing harm, or even entering the facility. But then you get into trouble."

For shopping centers -- particularly those with movie theaters, which tend to draw groups of teens -- finding a way to keep loitering and disturbances to a minimum can be tricky, said David Marks, owner of Marketplace Advisors, a real-estate consulting firm in Winter Park.

"You like the kids as customers," Marks added, "but you don't want them just hanging out causing trouble and getting into mischief."

At the malls

As a preventive measure, some big mall operators have drawn up rules of behavior and hired extra security guards. Movie chains such as AMC Theatres and Regal Entertainment Group have also hired extra security when needed and say they work to discourage loitering.

Simon Property Group -- which operates several shopping centers in Central Florida including Waterford Lakes Town Center, Florida Mall and Seminole Towne Center -- posts notices at its properties to warn shoppers that loitering, disorderly conduct and dress that is "identified as gang-related through law enforcement intelligence" will not be tolerated.

Billie Scott, a Simon spokeswoman, said shoppers who violate codes of conduct -- listed on welcome signs -- are asked to comply by security personnel. On rare occasions, Scott said, uncooperative visitors are sometimes banned from the mall for a period of time. Scott said the mall does not discriminate.

"We want the mall to be a pleasant environment for everybody," Scott said. General Growth Properties, which operates the Altamonte Mall, Oviedo Marketplace and West Oaks Mall in Central Florida, also enforces a code of conduct at its shopping centers.

"The only time our public-safety officer or management team will approach a shopper is if they are blocking a major walkway or causing some kind of disturbance," said David Keating, spokesman for General Growth Properties.

Disney also posts rules of behavior, Polak said. When security officers are concerned about teens loitering, or suspect the youth may be involved in gangs, they are asked if they have any business on Disney property. If the answer is no, the guards ask them to leave. If they don't leave, the officers, bolstered by deputy sheriffs, detain and photograph the teens. Before they are expelled, they are warned in writing that they could be arrested if they return to Disney World.

It can be next to impossible to tell at a glance whether a teenager or young man is a gang member, said Jay Corzine, chairman of UCF's sociology department. One group of rowdy youth can look much like another.

"It would be very difficult to make totally accurate determinations that somebody has at least a reasonable likelihood of being a gang member," he said.

"If they want to discourage youth loitering," he added, however, "they certainly can do that, and it doesn't matter if they're gang members or not."

Crackdown and crime

Disney and the Sheriff's Office said the crackdown on loitering youth was planned weeks ago, but the weekend of the big push, June 15-17, came just days after a reported crime that made worldwide headlines.

The weekend before, a Connecticut couple had reported being kidnapped from a Downtown Disney parking lot. The Sheriff's Office raised doubts about parts of their story, but by then Disney crime was a widely discussed topic.

"I don't know if there has been any increase in crime at Downtown Disney. If they have experienced an increase in crime, especially predatory crimes such as robbery, then I can understand them wanting to do something to increase security," Corzine said.

 

[crazy4wdw]

COMMENTARY

Disney apology could cool talk about profiling
Mike Thomas
COMMENTARY
June 28, 2007
I must confess to the crime of loitering at Downtown Disney.

You can find me at that toy store with the Mr. Potato Head bin, watching my kids slap in eyeballs and ears.

But in my defense I keep my pants pulled up, don't harass other guests and don't curse Disney security, which by now must be desperately looking for white folks to boot out of Downtown Disney.

A crackdown on Downtown Disney loitering seems to target kids of color. That includes Garnet and Gold, given that some Florida State recruits were swept up in the bust.

Mickey is in a real bind here.

Disney sells an escape from reality. That includes removing the mental burden of fearing for your safety.

To deliver this product, Disney needs to maintain control. That is why Walt bought 27,000 acres, to separate his kingdom from our anarchy.

Disney controls access. It controls parking. That deters criminals from prowling around, looking for victims. This is why you rarely read about violent crimes on Disney property, whereas they are not all that rare on other tourism strips.

But now we have this hybrid place called Downtown Disney.

True, it is Disney. But you can drive right in and park your car without paying a dime or driving through a gate. On top of that, you can go in a bar and get drunk.

All this tends to loosen control.

That was the risk Disney took when it delved into nighttime entertainment. And so I'm not entirely sympathetic to its current plight.

The reality is that such venues attract teenagers looking for a cheap place to loiter. Downtown Orlando, Winter Park, International Drive and almost any shopping mall have all had their problems with kids.

If they are white kids in their Calvin Kleins hanging around Winter Park Village, they are treated as a nuisance at most. If they are black and Hispanic kids in their baggy pants hanging around Downtown Disney, they are treated as a threat.

You could argue it's racist.

You could argue statistical probabilities about which group is more likely to commit a crime.

The unfortunate reality is that Central Florida's epidemic of violent crime is centered in low-income, minority neighborhoods.

Another unfortunate reality is that a majority of young, minority males are good kids lumped into a bad stereotype.

I do not doubt that Disney has a problem with wannabe gangstas. Last week a 15-year-old was caught with a loaded pistol. And then there was that alleged armed abduction of a Connecticut couple from the Downtown Disney parking lot.

This threatens the perception of Disney control. It tarnishes the image that once you drive on the premises, you are wrapped tightly in Mickey's security blanket.

That image is why a shooting in downtown Orlando might not even be reported, whereas a shooting on Disney property would be national news.

Disney is not a racist company.

It targets Hispanics and blacks in its marketing. Last year it booted far more white kids than minorities.

If you want to understand Disney's motivation, think dollars, not color. It has a lot more to lose when violence breaks out at one of its venues.

Disney has to deal with the growing number of teenagers settling in at Downtown Disney. The problem with any crackdown of this magnitude is that mistakes are made.

To keep the crackdown credible, Disney needs to admit when that's the case, as it appears to be with these FSU recruits, and apologize.

Mike Thomas can be reached at 407-420-5525 or mthomas@orlandosentinel.com. His blog is OrlandoSentinel.com/mikethomas.

 

[crazy4wdw]

Since we have two threads on the same topic, I'm going to merge them so all of the information is in the same location.

 

[Jason71]

reason enough as far as im concerned:

At one point, the teens tried to enter the Pleasure Island complex of nightclubs after 11 p.m. when entry switches to those 21 and older. They declined to go to the movies as suggested and said they were at Downtown Disney to pick up girls, Krantz said he was told.

So no one goes to DTD to pick up girls?!?!? [In Jack Sparrow voice ] Clearly you've never been to 8-Traxx...or Motion...or RnR Beach Club...or Mannequins (well, ok, few go to Mannequins to pick up girls, but the point is the same...). As for trying to enter PI after 11, the rule is not clearly posted or publicized--I see under 21s getting turned away every time I walk out of there. Not sure it warrants being circled by police.

The Sentinel is having a field day with this, check out this article by a sports columist: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/orl-whitley2807jun28,0,433142.column?coll=orl_tab01_layout Makes some excellent points about the thin line between browsing and loitering.

Over a dozen deputies were on hand just to surround these kids, yet we still have arguments on the board over whether there are any cops at DTD.

 

[KINGBOBOFTHENORTH]

So no one goes to DTD to pick up girls?!?!? Clearly you've never been to 8-Traxx...or Motion...or RnR Beach Club...or Mannequins (well, ok, few go to Mannequins to pick up girls.

Oooh, that's cruel. Other than Thursday nights, there are lots of guys at Mannequins trying to pick up girls. The prey is only different on Thursday nights.

Makes some excellent points about the thin line between browsing and loitering.

If you're moving around and not just hanging around, no one is going to bother you. If you've got a valid movie ticket you can show that. If you've purchased your PI ticket you can show that. If you're just standing or sitting around for a long period of time security is going to see what you're up to. I don't think its racial profiling but more likely age profiling. A mom and dad with their two teens isn't going to get questioned. Youths of any color are going to get questioned about why they're there.

Over a dozen deputies were on hand just to surround these kids, yet we still have arguments on the board over whether there are any cops at DTD.

Good point.

BobK/Orlando