Teams 2010?

[Steffwalks]

WISH Teams have been established for any WISH'er who is interested in interacting with a smaller group of people within the WISH environment. Teams have been helpful to some WISH'ers in providing additional resources, support, and camaraderie beyond the main board; and can be a good way for new WISH'ers to become an intergral part of the WISH family without feeling lost in the "big WISH" Events/Competition forum.

WISH teams are not mandatory, are non-exclusive and are always welcoming to new members and to "visits" by any and all WISH'ers. We will try to keep the WISH team size to around 15 people or so, in order to keep things "cozy

Apparantly, size matters and has been decided.

My next question is: What if a team grows beyond this scope?

 

[ultramickeymouse]

There's a top secret running path from OKW to SSR where there could be an informal, no-fee, 3.1 mile group run/walk on the Friday morning of marathon weekend.

That was the course for the Go Red for Women 5K in May 2007(the day before the Minnie 15K).

 

[solotraveler]

I don't think teams could or should be limited to a certain number of people. If a WISHer comes to a team and asks to be included, are they to be turned away because the magical, arbitrary number has been reached?

Maura - That is getting pretty large. I don't know of a magic size but, certainly less than 20 IMO. As for a good way to make a new team? Seems it owuld be best to get ~5 WISHers that have been around at least a year that agree to psot regularly to get things going. How to get thoe volunteers? Ask and hope soemone takes you up on it? Very good question. I hope someoen can come up with a good answer! Thansk so much for taking over the rosters!

So too big and they are capped and become insular cliques and if left unchecked they become unwieldy and perhaps push new folks away due to sheer size....

Lose/lose all the way if you're not in a team, I guess.....

 

[jmasgat]

Okay...time out please. There is no mandated cap. The 15 number was a suggestion, primarily suggested when we were still doing miles/minutes to make things manageable.

One of the positive points for teams--raised by WISHers-- is the ability to interact with a small group. So I thought it was logical to ask "when does small stop being small?". I have no desire to be arbitrary or exclusive. But being a planner-type, and given that the teams are growing (which is a good thing), I thought I would ask.

In lieu of any other better way of managing things--and I think we should be open to other suggestions-- I will just assign people as they ask. I guess if people think things are too big, they will stop participating.

Maura

 

[Terri5176]

Posted in wrong thread.....

 

[dsnyfan21]

So too big and they are capped and become insular cliques and if left unchecked they become unwieldy and perhaps push new folks away due to sheer size....

Lose/lose all the way if you're not in a team, I guess.....

Again, the intent of the smaller teams in not meant to be exclusive.
The orginal intent was to have "smaller" teams so people who are not so good with keeping up with the large weekly/monthly team thread would have a place to go. People who were maybe new, or just don't have the time to keep up with the other threads. Come on people, lets not make this a personal thing.
Bots started on their own from a group who had a common race and stayed together. They are not exclusive and I tried one time to get in, but really I didn't know any of them at the time and had no idea of the little talks that they were haveing. Lean meaners all have a common goal of losing weight and they are not exclusive, but really if you don't want to talk about diets, food and losing weight then that thread would not be for you. The Valentine's Day virtual race is for those who want to do that race, if you don't you wouldn't be on that thread. Etc., Etc.
The smaller groups are people who are WISH members who all have goals of doing races and of course Inspired to stay healthy.
I mean if you don't have the "smaller" teams then really just do the weekly/monthly thread? People who started in their groups have wanted to stay. It was asked, did we want to keep the teams going and some do and some don't. It was the comments of most to keep the teams, but also keep them manageable. Some teams have chosen to keep doing the miles/minutes and some have not.
So, do we need to "vote" on what we think is a good number for a "smaller" team size? I mean the WISH TEAM does meet on the weekly/monthly thread so that is the place for ALL Wishers to go, isn't it? or maybe I have that wrong.
I don't know the answers to most of these questions, but hate the idea that people feel somehow that the smaller teams are "cliques", have people felt this way the last two years? I never knew.
I also feel bad for Maura who graciously VOLUNTEERED to help place people.
I also have a hard time myself on the weekly/monthly thread keeping up. I like to go over and read and catch up and post when I think I have something to add and that is just a personal thing. When a team member has a certain question about a race or a training thing, I would encourage them to go over to the TEAm thread and ask so they get many differetn opinions.
As a team cordinator I do have and have had a hard time with a group of more than 20 people. Sorry and maybe that is my flaw. Maybe others are just better at the kind of thing than me. I would have to seriously be at a loss with 30. Sorry to anyone that finds that harsh, but I just can't do it.

Again, sorry Maura for some complications that have arisen.

Again these are my own thoughts and opinions and my 2 cents,
Tracy

 

[Steffwalks]

Speaking from the point of view of a captain:

Like the gym, there is always a huge rush at the first of the year! That's a good thing. But people will and do drift away. For whatever reason, they decide not to participate in a team.

If someone wants to chair a new team, they should have the opportunity. Without a captain/coordinator can there be a team??? And if no one wants too be captain...

No one should be left without a team who wants one. Most people who want to be on a team would be better served by a larger team than no team.

Maybe the term "team" is interfering with the discussion and dialogue. Team implies competition. And a fair competition should a like number of players. But the competition aspect is gone, and the teams are more a cooperative group.

Four people in as many days have asked to join our team. I won't turn anyone down who wishes to join our team. I don't have the audacity much less authority to do that in a free and public forum. But that puts my team over the magical number. Does that mean that I can't allow anyone else? Does it mean that no new people will be allowed to enjoy the support of our team? I am only asking.

 

[solotraveler]

So too big and they are capped and become insular cliques and if left unchecked they become unwieldy and perhaps push new folks away due to sheer size....

Lose/lose all the way if you're not in a team, I guess.....

OK, I need to post a mea culpa here.

I worded this hastily and badly last night and certainly didn't mean to call anyone out.

I think if the team support works for you-- that's great!! I just hope that there is a bigger push from folks within the team to break outside of those threads and participate in the WISH threads more. And it seems like that is a concern of many and is being worked on.

So, all good.

Okay...time out please. There is no mandated cap. The 15 number was a suggestion, primarily suggested when we were still doing miles/minutes to make things manageable.

One of the positive points for teams--raised by WISHers-- is the ability to interact with a small group. So I thought it was logical to ask "when does small stop being small?". I have no desire to be arbitrary or exclusive. But being a planner-type, and given that the teams are growing (which is a good thing), I thought I would ask.

In lieu of any other better way of managing things--and I think we should be open to other suggestions-- I will just assign people as they ask. I guess if people think things are too big, they will stop participating.

Maura

Speaking from the point of view of a captain:

Like the gym, there is always a huge rush at the first of the year! That's a good thing. But people will and do drift away. For whatever reason, they decide not to participate in a team.

If someone wants to chair a new team, they should have the opportunity. Without a captain/coordinator can there be a team??? And if no one wants too be captain...

No one should be left without a team who wants one. Most people who want to be on a team would be better served by a larger team than no team.

Maybe the term "team" is interfering with the discussion and dialogue. Team implies competition. And a fair competition should a like number of players. But the competition aspect is gone, and the teams are more a cooperative group.

Four people in as many days have asked to join our team. I won't turn anyone down who wishes to join our team. I don't have the audacity much less authority to do that in a free and public forum. But that puts my team over the magical number. Does that mean that I can't allow anyone else? Does it mean that no new people will be allowed to enjoy the support of our team? I am only asking.

Wow... I understand what you are trying to get across here, but the sarcasm, unwillingness to listen/dialogue and daring people to give a contrary opinion in your last several posts aren't helping matters.

 

[deekaypee]

Man, I so don't want to jump into the fray here, but I can't seem to stop myself.....

It seems to me these discussions are very much in the spirit of the issues that were raised when I started the thread. What function(s) do the teams serve? What's a good balance with the teams & WISH, between intimacy, inclusiveness, and exclusivity? No wonder so many of us are passionate about the outcomes!

So it's a reasonable question to ask about size, especially since it was such a point in earlier discussions. And Maura's unfairly taken some of the brunt of this discussion, as I raised the idea to her that teams might have both lower and upper limits to create a strong dynamic. Yes, this was based on last year's teams and the competition, but also on the discussions on this thread. So it's on me, folks. I apologize for putting you in the middle, Maura.

New WISH Team?
Maura has asked whether a new team should be started--we've strayed from that point. Since no seasoned WISHers have volunteered to lead a new team, I assume no one is willing to do so.

Perhaps a group of new WISHers would like to start their own team? An idea was raised earlier in the thread (can't remember who) about a WISHers 2010 team, in which the group could form their own team name/identity. Some folks floated a beginner's thread, too. Who better to start a beginner's thread than...a beginner??

The Bots/Leaners/Race Threads Comparison: My Bad
Yes, I raised comparisons with the Bots, the Leaners, race threads, etc., as threads that are supportive and social and nature. I was suggesting an alternative model to the miles & minutes challenge, based on threads that I think of functional, supportive, and to be admired.

Alas, the comparison might be bogging us down. My apologies. Previous posters have made good points about those threads developing over common interests--specific races, specific goals. The teams are a bit different, insomuch as their members were assigned and pretty much randomly put on teams, IIRC.

Instead, teams were given a common goal--the miles & minutes challenge. And those who joined teams voluntarily subjected themselves to play be certain "rules," or loose regulations, in ways the above threads did not. That included accepting new WISH requests in a more formal way. Along the way, many WISHers on teams found they shared common interests and/or formed friendships.

There were very good reasons to keep the teams balanced in number as long as we had a competition between us. Now, it looks like most teams have stopped participating in the miles & minutes. To tell you the truth, I don't know how many teams are tracking their numbers. Any?

So, the teams may be changing in fundamental ways--and we might want to consider the numbers question, among other organizational ones.

Coordinator/Teams/Numbers/Assignments
What about coordinating teams & new member requests? I still think it's a good idea to have a coordinator. Not solely or even primarily because of a team's numbers, but because I believe some WISHers like the structure of a team & roster. Teams are place where one can join other WISHers for more personal, individualized support & encouragement for training and immediately expect to be welcomed.

I also suspect--could be wrong, often am--that many new WISHers have no concrete sense what team they'd like to be on, or have no strong preference. So I see Maura's role as very important, as a sort of WISH ambassador, particularly during times when training for Disney events picks up.

As far as team-member numbers. Again, yes, without a competition there's less reason to keep the numbers balanced.

The simplest solution might be to take a poll as to "ideal number" for a team(e.g. 15, 15-20, 20-25, 25-30, unlimited) and use that as a rough guideline for assignments. The majority vote wins, and we move on. It doesn't solve every problem, but it's quick & more voices might be heard than currently.

Alternately, some teams might opt out of the team assignments altogether.They could accept all WISHers who want to join them, but they wouldn't be assigned any new WISHers from the 2010 Coordinator thread. People could, of course, drop directly into their group's thread...and that info could be posted on the 2010 Coordinator thread.

I offer this variation of team assignments in the spirit of compromise:

• Teams post their rosters and their "policies" on the first post--whether they track mileage, host a mixer or virtual race, have a meet planned, or have an upper limit on "players." (I'd also like to see the WISH intro--found on the first post of the monthly thread there, but that might seem too top-down for people. For the record, I just like its spirit.)
• Anyone who wants to join a specific team will be accepted.
• All other requests are evenly distributed among the teams--if they have openings. (Again, if you're a team tracking miles & minutes, or one that tracks it's own team's internal challenges, it might different than a social thread.)

But What about the Newbies?
But I would suggest that we veterans--or seasoned WISHers, as Maura has called us--might not be the best people to actually address the question. I think it's the newer WISHers who have more at stake here.

And here's why: they're the ones coming into a group where individuals know each other, where the teams/threads have established identities, and where they're trying to figure out where & how to fit in.

Those of us teams know each other, and know we'd be welcoming, etc. But the teams, with all the members various personalities and histories, we're comfortable with them. (Even if you're moving from one team to another.) Not necessarily for new WISHers.

I liken it to being invited to a big party, where your potentially new friends all know each other. They all seem like great people. But at the party they can all relax and have a good time because they know each other. They have just your name & story to add to the mix. Easy peasy. You, though, you're still trying to figure out everyone's names and whether you can bring a bottle of wine to event without committing a faux pax. So you kinda want to start circulating in one small corner of the room, getting a feel for the place.

So, yeah, I think size matters--don't go there, you R-rated thinkers --if not for those us already on teams then for those of us joining teams. Especially brand, spanking new WISHers. They might want a group that is small enough so that they can feel "heard" and "seen." What is that number? I think they might have a better sense, whether that's 15 or 20 or 30 or unlimited.

To make an infamous Debra-length post even longer... so why not weigh the input of new WISHers more heavily than those of us who are seasoned?(Just call me Saffron.)

True, they haven't weighed in on this debate yet--but would you if you were new? I'd feel totally intimidated, because I'd think, "What do I know about the teams and how they function?" But I believe their perspective on size is the most important perspective of all.

So....new WISHers. I really think we'd love to hear--and need to hear--your position. If there's no input from new WISHers, and can't come to consensus for those of us weighing in on the thread, then I suggest we default to a majority rules position.

Just my weekly paycheck's worth of opinion...$.02 before taxes.

 

[wtpclc]

Debra - I think that's a great idea. I don't know how many new WISHers would follow this thread, though. Seems like if we really want to get their opinions, a new thread (New WISHers, we want your opinons...) should be started with a poll.

Maura - Have I mentioned how much I appreciate your taking over teams?

 

[Sandy321]

Okay...time out please. There is no mandated cap. The 15 number was a suggestion, primarily suggested when we were still doing miles/minutes to make things manageable.

One of the positive points for teams--raised by WISHers-- is the ability to interact with a small group. So I thought it was logical to ask "when does small stop being small?". I have no desire to be arbitrary or exclusive. But being a planner-type, and given that the teams are growing (which is a good thing), I thought I would ask.

In lieu of any other better way of managing things--and I think we should be open to other suggestions-- I will just assign people as they ask. I guess if people think things are too big, they will stop participating.

Maura

Thank YOU Maura for helping the new WISHers feel welcomed!!

Saffron very well said...

My $.02 -
The weekly thread is the WISH thread -

Clique thread - by definition WISH is a clique... isnt it? People will post. Liz started a thread for those "doing the Donald" People joined...

Common interests. Common Goals.

Inspire.

WISH.

 

[jmasgat]

Speaking from the point of view of a captain:

Four people in as many days have asked to join our team. I won't turn anyone down who wishes to join our team. I don't have the audacity much less authority to do that in a free and public forum. But that puts my team over the magical number. Does that mean that I can't allow anyone else? Does it mean that no new people will be allowed to enjoy the support of our team? I am only asking.

IMO, your team can be as big as its members want. And once again, there is no magical number.

Debra You are coming up with some theoretically good suggestions. My feeling, at this point, is not to over complicate this. Also, my feeling is that no matter what we try, there will never be a right answer. Someone will always take offense/feel slighted/etc. I guess that's the way it is when a large group of people get together.

So Que Sera, Sera.....Maybe we should just add on people to teams as they ask. If they want to join something specific, fine. And is things get "too big" for some, they'll drop out.

I am really sorry I asked about numbers and am even sorrier for volunteering to help. Lately, I dread coming onto the WISH board.

Maura

 

[wfloyd]

...
I am really sorry I asked about numbers and am even sorrier for volunteering to help. Lately, I dread coming onto the WISH board.

Maura

Maura - Don't feel bad, you have now gained membership into the group of people who have tried to organize stuff around here and subsequently had their heads chopped off. You did nothing wrong and were just trying to head off problems in the future. I do feel bad that you were caught in the crossfire and I hope that you do continue to lead things.

If you look around to those who were here in 2005 and started this up, there aren't many left because a couple of people drove them away a year or two ago for trying to help organize things so the group could better reach the needs of more people. A few still post selectively but generally just lurk or post on non-controversial topics because of what has happened in the past.

Bill

 

[chimera]

I am really sorry I asked about numbers and am even sorrier for volunteering to help. Lately, I dread coming onto the WISH board.

Maura

As Bill said, welcome to the club. We'll all get through this as a team, no worries.

 

[goofyinohio]

I am really sorry I asked about numbers and am even sorrier for volunteering to help. Lately, I dread coming onto the WISH board.

Maura

Maura - I'm really sorry you feel that way. I really appreciate you taking the time to organize this. Doing the Goofy Challenge thread and our Team thread last year just became way too much for me.

I do think your Original Question is a good one. Does the team size matter? Depends on the Captain and team I think. I think we should leave it up to Individual teams and if that Captain says they have too many people then they just let you know so you don't assign anyone to that team. If it's someone who wants to be on a specific team and the Captain or Leader is OK with taking them on then that's great. I just think it's different strokes for different folks.

Thanks Again Maura for taking the time to Organize this!

 

[jbucci]

I've mostly stayed out of this to avoid stepping on toes but feel I need to at least say Maura Thanks, please don't stay away because of a few posts. WISH is a big group of wonderful people who, like all big groups, occasionally disagree.

I love the idea of a WISH 5K marathon weekend. I also like a Ghirardelli meet after it, but that's just me.

I think if we can post weekly question threads (call them mixer topics if you like) that would promote more discussion with everyone in a slightly more focused manner. It would let people chime in and slowly get to know everyone.

I am proud to be a WISH team member and thank everyone who got this crazy group started and has seen it through its growing pains. I appreciate all of the support and inspiration.

Just my .02

 

[tiberius]

I am really sorry I asked about numbers and am even sorrier for volunteering to help. Lately, I dread coming onto the WISH board.

Maura

I wish you wouldn't feel that way. Many here appreciate the organization work you've been doing, in spite of a vocal minority.

 

[thndrmatt]

A few still post selectively but generally just lurk or post on non-controversial topics because of what has happened in the past.

/me lurks

 

[marathonmommy]

I posted a new thread, Team Newbie, at the suggestion of a poster for new people to do introductions - not necessarily for a new team. We will see if anyone bites.

 

[Steffwalks]

This is an open apology to all I have offended. I'm sorry.

I wasn't being sarcastic, as some have suggested. Nor was I unwilling to listen to answers. I was asking questions. I believe that a "rule" should take into consideration the consequences and unintended results. As someone who is subject to the rule, I think that I should be free to examine it.

Maura, thank you for your efforts. I appreciate them.