Team in Training

[roomthreeseventeen]

TNT has a bad rep in NYC for running 5 or 6 abreast on their training runs in Central Park, too. When it's TnT night, most runners try to avoid anywhere that they might be.

 

[Sarah_Rose]

TNT has a bad rep in NYC for running 5 or 6 abreast on their training runs in Central Park, too. When it's TnT night, most runners try to avoid anywhere that they might be.

I don't know about NYC, but here in Seattle, that sort of thing happens anywhere that large training groups use. On sunny (defined in Seattle as non-rainy) weekend mornings, there are entire parts of the city that I will avoid because of the bike clubs that ride 3-4 abreast in the middle of the road, effectively preventing cars from safely passing.

I think any training group has the potential to be obnoxious... the bike clubs definitely know better (no one bike commutes to work like that!) but the mob mentality takes over. I sometimes run with a "mommy and me" running group and sometimes we end up 4 abreast with jogging strollers, but at least we're out on weekday mornings when the paths are lightly used.

 

[cynomologus]

Not to mention the course-cutting incident at Marine Corps Marathon a few years ago:

Ironz.... did you even read the article? Yes, "a charity group" cut the race short so their participants could get finisher's medals. That is a terrible offense and really a disservice to those who fought to finish the race in the time allotted by the race officials.

But NO WHERE in the article does it state that those runners were from TNT. I think it is grossly negligent to even "imply" that TNT was the group implicated.

I know you didn't come out and say it was TNT, but a lot of people may not click through and read the article to find out who the group really was (the article didn't mention the offending charity, but did mention that they were not invited back to Marine Corps).

That being said, I can only relate to what is being practiced in the TNT groups that I have been associated with. No one that I know of has ever been told to place yourself in a higher corral so you don't get swept, and I've seen plenty of people run races 4 or 5 people abreast, making it hard for others to pass in lots of races. They just happened to not all be wearing purple shirts at the time so they were not that memorable.....

I'm not offended when people on the course don't cheer me when I'm not wearing a TNT shirt, or when people are holding up signs for another charity group or for a specific person that they are waiting to pass by.... It makes me appreciate those who do cheer all the more....

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that do not follow great race ettiquite (both as runners and spectators), it's just that it's easier to remember those who are dressed in the same color, rather than the random people who are just as big of offenders

JOHN

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Ironz.... did you even read the article? Yes, "a charity group" cut the race short so their participants could get finisher's medals. That is a terrible offense and really a disservice to those who fought to finish the race in the time allotted by the race officials.

But NO WHERE in the article does it state that those runners were from TNT. I think it is grossly negligent to even "imply" that TNT was the group implicated.

I know you didn't come out and say it was TNT, but a lot of people may not click through and read the article to find out who the group really was (the article didn't mention the offending charity, but did mention that they were not invited back to Marine Corps).

That being said, I can only relate to what is being practiced in the TNT groups that I have been associated with. No one that I know of has ever been told to place yourself in a higher corral so you don't get swept, and I've seen plenty of people run races 4 or 5 people abreast, making it hard for others to pass in lots of races. They just happened to not all be wearing purple shirts at the time so they were not that memorable.....

I'm not offended when people on the course don't cheer me when I'm not wearing a TNT shirt, or when people are holding up signs for another charity group or for a specific person that they are waiting to pass by.... It makes me appreciate those who do cheer all the more....

Unfortunately there are a lot of people that do not follow great race ettiquite (both as runners and spectators), it's just that it's easier to remember those who are dressed in the same color, rather than the random people who are just as big of offenders

JOHN

The MCM Race Director came out and said that both JeansMarines and TnT were involved in the cheating incident.

As to the whole cheering thing, I like to stay at races after I'm done and cheer for all the finishers. If they are wearing a shirt that identifies their club, I'll call them out, like "GO FRONTRUNNERS' or something. But I cheer for everyone who is working their tail off to get to that finish line.

 

[ironz]

The MCM Race Director came out and said that both JeansMarines and TnT were involved in the cheating incident.

I've deleted my post because the offenders were primarily the Jeans Marines team, though TNT was also implicated and investigated. Some sources say the TNT runners cut the course, others say it was the TNT coaches cutting across. So my apologies FOR THAT POST only.

Anything else I've related...regarding the exclusive cheering and the actions of the coaches along the course... hold true for at least 3 WDW half marathons and 2 WDW marathons.
The cheering and illegal pacing argument can extend to the triathlon world, too.

Trouble is....esp as the coach I indicated who was perfectly fine with himself and his walkers blocking the runners at the WDW half marathon...if you're wearing a shirt that designates your 'team,' you are representing that team. Your actions and lack of race etiquette will be associated with your entire team. I try to be very careful how I act when I am wearing the logo of my training group.

 

[saysay]

I went to a TNT meeting for the Princess this year and decided not to do it....just because I didn't think I had the time or energy for fundraising AND my schedule is tight with my DD and hours my DH works so for me thought it would be better on my own. It was the right choice for me because of that.

I have several friends who run with TNT and they have been very supportive of me in my single training which is nice.

When I ran my first 1/2 10 years ago I joined a Galloway group and that was instrumental in making me successful in finishing and avoiding injury. It was nice having the scheduled runs once a week to hold me accountable, I needed it. I think for this TNT is GREAT. They want you to succeed and are there to help you.

As for the obnoxious coaching and cheering, I didn't feel ignored or not cheered for by TNT when I ran by. There was one coach who kept coming back past me to make sure here team members were doing OK and she was so loud. I actually complimented her at one point for being so supportive of her people and I THINK she took it wrong as she looked at me like I was nuts.......I didn't feel like I didn't have any support, I was just moved by how much she was doing for her team.

Anyhow, go to the meeting and decide for yourself. If its not for you, then there are other groups to help you be successful in your race. If you decide to do TNT, you will have LOTS of support both for fundraising and running.

 

[verticalchaos]

The MCM Race Director came out and said that both JeansMarines and TnT were involved in the cheating incident.

As to the whole cheering thing, I like to stay at races after I'm done and cheer for all the finishers. If they are wearing a shirt that identifies their club, I'll call them out, like "GO FRONTRUNNERS' or something. But I cheer for everyone who is working their tail off to get to that finish line.

Thanks for the shoutout!

But seriously, I agree with you. When I get fast enough that there are a lot more people finishing behind me I'll be doing the same thing!

 

[cynomologus]

I've deleted my post because the offenders were primarily the Jeans Marines team, though TNT was also implicated and investigated. Some sources say the TNT runners cut the course, others say it was the TNT coaches cutting across. So my apologies FOR THAT POST only.

Anything else I've related...regarding the exclusive cheering and the actions of the coaches along the course... hold true for at least 3 WDW half marathons and 2 WDW marathons.
The cheering and illegal pacing argument can extend to the triathlon world, too.

Trouble is....esp as the coach I indicated who was perfectly fine with himself and his walkers blocking the runners at the WDW half marathon...if you're wearing a shirt that designates your 'team,' you are representing that team. Your actions and lack of race etiquette will be associated with your entire team. I try to be very careful how I act when I am wearing the logo of my training group.

Well I've done some research, as I wasn't running marathons, nor involved with TNT back in 2005 when the MCM cheating occurred, and I cannot find any evidence regarding TNT being implicated in the cheating scandal (mainly becuase the team that was implicated was banned the following year, and TNT was not). There is a lot of people who associate TNT with the cheating but no clear evidence that they did, since a punishment was not handed out...

That being said, I'm not going to defend anyone who cheats in a marathon, regardless of their affiliation.

Unfortunately, a good organization gets a bad reputation due to a few individuals who don't want to follow the rules or ettiquite of a race.

It's obvious and unfortunate that we will never see eye to eye on this issue, because somewhere some individual (or a very small group of individuals) in a purple shirt did something to make you notice them, and that soured you on what is really a great organization.

I'm not so blind to say that those incidents don't happen, but they are exceptions and not the norm. Unfortunately, there are some individuals/coaches/chapters that may think they are "above" the rules of the race because they are running for a charity, and that is definitely not the case

JOHN

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

But that one incident isn't why TnT has a bad rep.

 

[cynomologus]

And as far as the coaches go for TNT....

I think a lot of them get "tunnel vision" for the TNT participants. They work pretty hard to get the participants prepared to finish the event, and then on race day, they work hard to get them across the finish line.

And I will agree, that if you are representing an organization, you need to know that your actions reflect upon that organization. I know TNT chapters stress that to their participants, but ulitimately it is up to the individual to be responsible for their actions.

JOHN

 

[ironz]

Well I've done some research, as I wasn't running marathons, nor involved with TNT back in 2005 when the MCM cheating occurred, and I cannot find any evidence regarding TNT being implicated in the cheating scandal (mainly becuase the team that was implicated was banned the following year, and TNT was not). There is a lot of people who associate TNT with the cheating but no clear evidence that they did, since a punishment was not handed out...

That being said, I'm not going to defend anyone who cheats in a marathon, regardless of their affiliation.

Unfortunately, a good organization gets a bad reputation due to a few individuals who don't want to follow the rules or ettiquite of a race.

It's obvious and unfortunate that we will never see eye to eye on this issue, because somewhere some individual (or a very small group of individuals) in a purple shirt did something to make you notice them, and that soured you on what is really a great organization.

I'm not so blind to say that those incidents don't happen, but they are exceptions and not the norm. Unfortunately, there are some individuals/coaches/chapters that may think they are "above" the rules of the race because they are running for a charity, and that is definitely not the case

JOHN

MULTIPLE incidents:
Cheering issues (because many people only cheer for "team" and will flat out stare at non-team members---every Disney race I've done since at least 2008 (4 half marathons, one full) and some other races, including some triathlons.
Blocking the entire race course by walking abreast, including a coach--clearly labeled on his shirt-- who mouthed off to me: 2008. That incident also included falsely being in an earlier corral than they should have been in.
Coaches on the actual race course, not on the sidelines: multiple Disney races (probably not against running race rules); multiple triathlons (Pacing and running alongside is against the rules)

Mind you, I do events nationwide, from running events up to Ironman triathlon...so it's not like I am just seeing them at local or just Disney events. And yes....they stick out...by associating yourself with a recognizable organization, you have a greater responsibility to the reputation of that organization, as opposed to some generic person on a race course or cheering.


Like I said...I have donated to team members who are friends of mine and for the cause....but I would never choose to be a part of them, esp. until the organization as a whole starts teaching running/tri/cheering etiquette.
And as I asked above...what have YOU done to help educate your supporters and teammates on these issues?

 

[cynomologus]

But that one incident isn't why TnT has a bad rep.

I didn't say it was.... but others have cited that as a reason why they don't like TNT.

Obviously, TNT (and like organizations) will never gain the respect of the running community, mainly because a lot of the charity participants are "one and done" as far as races go....

 

[cynomologus]

MULTIPLE incidents:

Like I said...I have donated to team members who are friends of mine and for the cause....but I would never choose to be a part of them, esp. until the organization as a whole starts teaching running/tri/cheering etiquette.
And as I asked above...what have YOU done to help educate your supporters and teammates on these issues?

Betsy....

I do more than I need to to educate supporters/teammates on issues, but when it comes down it, the ONLY person I have 100% control over is myself. I try to educate the participants I run with, but even then, I cannot control who their friends/family members cheer for....

Like I said, most people in TNT are "one and done" and so are their supporters/cheering section.

I don't worry about not getting cheered as I run. If someone is so kind to cheer, I appreciate it. But I certainly don't expect it nor do I look down upon the person or the organization of the shirt they happen to be wearing that day....

JOHN

 

[ironz]

Betsy....



I don't worry about not getting cheered as I run. If someone is so kind to cheer, I appreciate it. But I certainly don't expect it nor do I look down upon the person or the organization of the shirt they happen to be wearing that day....

JOHN

I don't have to have the cheering, either. I've done enough endurance events and know how to get myself through them. The point is, it looks rude from the runner's perspective to hear a "go, team" up ahead of you, then get blank stares for the 50 yds as you are approaching some tnt supporters, have them stare at you as you run by, only to hear behind you a 15 seconds later, "go, team!" Throw in some generic "go runners" "go pink shirt" "go ladies" etc...it's just not that hard. If I can cheer people at an Ironman event for 17 hours, not exclusively limited to my friends or my team, then I would think it's just not that difficult to cheer a marathon and include more than the people in purple.

As for the other instances...it's more widespread than you will admit, so I'll just be done here. I do hope you do your best for education regarding race rules and etiquette. And by the way....I have not experienced that 'exclusive cheering' phenomenon from Joints in Motion, the Diabetes groups, or what is the other that is big at WDW races...Tourette's or one of the muscular dystrophies?

 

[cynomologus]

As for the other instances...it's more widespread than you will admit, so I'll just be done here. I do hope you do your best for education regarding race rules and etiquette. And by the way....I have not experienced that 'exclusive cheering' phenomenon from Joints in Motion, the Diabetes groups, or what is the other that is big at WDW races...Tourette's or one of the muscular dystrophies?

I wouldn't know if anyone else at the big WDW races was "exclusively cheering" for anyone else. When I am running a race, I pay attention to what I need to pay attention to, and honestly, I could care less who was cheering for who, and who didn't cheer for someone else.... that is not important to me.

But if you want to villify an organization based on who cheers for who, then I can't help you. You still haven't answered why it is so important for TNT supporters to cheer all runners, yet you don't ask the same thing of all spectators of the race.....

JOHN

 

[ksoehrlein]

Back to the OP: I did my first WDW half with my local TNT chapter and my first Princess half with "Virtual TNT," which is the national program. I was also a fundraising mentor. It was a most valuable experience for me. I made several very close friends, and continue to run with some of them.

Our local coaches are well-versed in race etiquette and discuss it during our group runs. And many of our group runs are on a 2-lane trail that helps train the participants to run no more than two abreast. But that's how it works where I live, and your mileage may vary.

That being said, I'm now leading a Galloway group instead of continuing with TNT. I, personally, am too scared of this economy to commit to fundraising again just yet. But that's partly because I've already "hit up" everyone I know for my prior races.

 

[dthogue]

Back to the OP: I did my first WDW half with my local TNT chapter and my first Princess half with "Virtual TNT," which is the national program. I was also a fundraising mentor. It was a most valuable experience for me. I made several very close friends, and continue to run with some of them.

Our local coaches are well-versed in race etiquette and discuss it during our group runs. And many of our group runs are on a 2-lane trail that helps train the participants to run no more than two abreast. But that's how it works where I live, and your mileage may vary.

That being said, I'm now leading a Galloway group instead of continuing with TNT. I, personally, am too scared of this economy to commit to fundraising again just yet. But that's partly because I've already "hit up" everyone I know for my prior races.

Thank you for your response, this is the type of info helpful information I was looking for, not a cheering debate!

 

[dthogue]

I want to thank all of you for your responses - some them were very insightful and I enjoyed reading about the experiences you have had working directly with TNT.

I am a new runner and am I looking for support in my training and my first race. That is why I was looking at TNT.

I went to the information meeting tonight and I was very impressed. I met the running coach and he spend quite a while talking to me aboout their training program. He was very supportive and kept telling me that I can do this - even though I am about 50 pounds overweight and haven't been running very long. Since I am doing this on my own, I need to find others to help me train and support my efforts. I feel TNT will offer this to me, so I signed up.

The fundraising amount wasn't too bad since I am running a local race and there are no travel fees, so I feel it's a win-win situation - I am very excited about this new journey and I can't wait to meet the person I will be running in honor of - and in the end, its come down to me be able to do something to help someone else and in my mind, that is what this is all about.

One last thing - to those who feel the need to continually bash TNT for their cheering practices, please remember that the TNT people are fundraising to find a cure for cancer - they are making a difference in the lives others - take a moment, get over your anger and take a moment and be thankful for the blessings in your life.

Tammy

 

[mla1977]

Congrats on joining TNT! You said you are doing a local race. Which one is it? I'm assuming the Hershey Half since that is supposed to be the Central PA race. Eastern PA doesn't send a team there because we have 3 big local races that everyone attends. I do have a friend who is trying to convince me to go to it though!

 

[cynomologus]

Congrats on joining TNT!!! It is definitely a great experience!!

Good luck in your training and fundraising!!

JOHN