Teachers - how do you do it?

[snarlingcoyote]

Me too! I should be finished in March of 2010.

I was in, I got out 10 years ago.

It's insane what teachers are expected to do for the pay they are given. If people really, truly supported the cause of education, they'd vote for better salaries, better infrastructure, better funding through all levels so that the kids with IEPs get good educations and the kids without IEPs get good educations.

Words without deeds. . .

Enough of that, I chose to buy a house in a school district that does have good funding, does have good teacher pay, and is building new buildings constantly even though I don't have kids, because I honestly do appreciate and value what good educations do for our society. (Okay, honesty compels me to add that good school districts = good resale values over the long haul.)

For everyone else, if you don't like what's happening at your schools, volunteer, run for the school board, get a gullible friend to run for school board. . .make changes, show up en masse at school board meetings and insist on tax increases, teacher salary increases, make furthering the cause of a good education your single-issue voting bloc! It happened in the town I'm in, it could happen in yours!

 

[daughtersrus]

No slam intended. But let's do a little math.

Based on the information I could find from the U.S. Department of Education, the average percentage of students that have IEPs are about 12.4 percent.

For a 7th grade teacher that has 6 classes each with 25 students, that's 18.6 students for which the teacher has to do individualized planning. Plus the plan for the balance of the students in his/her classes. So, on any given day (where the teacher has to plan for classes), the average teacher (with 6 classes of 25 students each) has to prepare 18.6 + 6 plans = 24.6 plans. 75% of the teacher's effort is spent for 12.5% of the students. 87.5% of the students get 25% of the teacher's effort. Add to this the amount of overhead in managing the work needed to teach and plan for so many students diffrently, it stands to reason that the overall quality of education is going to decrease.

I'm not going to argue law or rights or anything like that. I'm just going to point out math and logic.

Do these statistics include all children with an IEP including those that may be in a self-contained classroom (which have much lower student:teacher ratios) or just the children that are included in a regular ed program?

 

[daughtersrus]

Wow, that's awesome.

I'm a para in a second grade classroom. I'm responsible for helping 4 students with special needs and three who do not qualify because their IQs are too low (plus one whose mother is denying he has autism). I have to give them their sensory diets (brushing, among other things), plus fill in for the teacher when she has a meeting, has to leave the classroom in an emergency, or just needs extra help, plus I have to lead three small reading groups in the classroom and one reading and one math in the resource room. I also make copies and run errands for the teacher (even though I'm not supposed to) when she needs it.

The only reason I'm in the classroom is because one of the students has autism and requires full time assistance. If it wasn't for him, the teacher would have no other help.

I don't see how classrooms with children with IEPs and without paras do it.

I have to wonder if this is legal? If you are in the classroom because a student's IEP states that he needs full time assistance, who is assisting him when you're working with the other students? I'm not trying to start an argument, I really am just curious.

 

[freckles and boo]

Do these statistics include all children with an IEP including those that may be in a self-contained classroom (which have much lower student:teacher ratios) or just the children that are included in a regular ed program?

That is a very good question. My daughter is in a self-contained classroom although she attends specials with regular ed first graders. There are eleven children in her classroom and all have IEPs. Her teacher spends 100% of her time teaching children with IEPs. I would be willing to bet that the 12.4% includes ALL children and not just those in inclusion.

 

[Linzybrooke]

Thanks for the kudos! Teaching is a tough and rewarding job that does not end at 5.

All you other teachers out there rock!

 

[snarlingcoyote]

About 10 years ago I read a study that found that public spending on education had not risen, when adjusted for inflation, since the 1950's. However the services expected from school districts had risen dramatically. In other words, the public is willing to give a certain amount of money, that hasn't changed. What has changed are their expectations of return on their investment. Some of those returns are legislated and some are not.

Guess which ones get given money first?

Exactly.

This, in turn, leads to frustrations from those whose expectations from the schools includes things that are NOT legislated.

The solutions are to move out of school districts that do not have good funding, to move out of the public schools and into private schools where the parental expectations for a school are present, into homeschools (same reasoning as private schools) or to fund the school districts. Of the four, the first three are the easiest for individual families, if the worst for the entire district. After all, over time, if the parents and businesses who ARE getting what they expect are the only ones left, but they're still making the same contribution, but their contributions are not being matched by the parents and businesses that have opted out (in the first case, this is EXACTLY what happens. In the 2nd and 3rd case, some people are paying for benefits not received - and that's a powerful inducement to resentment and refusing to match contributions through means such as lowering school taxes.) the schools become worse and worse and eventually fail.

The lesson here is one that a lot of parents already know. It is better to be live in an apartment in a good school district than a big house in a bad school district, because the mandated expectations and the unmandated expections will be met, benefiting all students.

 

[GeorgiaPeach8]

Teachers know what is expected of them. Those can deal with it stay, those who can't leave. It is like any other job.

I know this is a Yah! Teachers thread but I must have one VENT...it is this comment I really have started to hate over the years (16 and counting ). This comment is designed to justify the crappy pay and working conditions for teachers. I went into teaching thinking there are so many people who recognized that teachers working conditions need to improve (not just pay) that surely conditions would improve. Well, 16 years later, conditions haven't improved and I realize probably aren't going to improve.

Also, no--it is not like any other job. I have had other jobs this one is different, difficult and special. We really are trying to do what is right for kids! I think that is pretty special. So, I guess that is my Yah! Teachers part.

 

[PrincessBelle94]

Teachers know what is expected of them. Those can deal with it stay, those who can't leave. It is like any other job.

 

[disneyjunkie]

I know this is a Yah! Teachers thread but I must have one VENT...it is this comment I really have started to hate over the years (16 and counting ). This comment is designed to justify the crappy pay and working conditions for teachers. I went into teaching thinking there are so many people who recognized that teachers working conditions need to improve (not just pay) that surely conditions would improve. Well, 16 years later, conditions haven't improved and I realize probably aren't going to improve.

Also, no--it is not like any other job. I have had other jobs this one is different, difficult and special. We really are trying to do what is right for kids! I think that is pretty special. So, I guess that is my Yah! Teachers part.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

 

[bhaluvindisney]

And this is why I am so happy that I stopped teaching. I'll deal with Behavior Health but I am so glad I do not have to teach and deal with everything that comes with it. I am so glad I don't have to deal with helicopter, non involved, overbearing, critical, rude, condescending parents who believe that only their child counts in the classroom *and by the way I am NOT slamming any one child just the general consensus of kids and parents*

I got to the point where teaching was no longer fun. We now have a teacher who just got hired and hasn't even completed her student teaching part of school because there are very limited teachers out there these days. They begged me to do it and I refused. I will not go back into a classroom and face the constant issues that teachers deal with.

It's sad really!!!!! Some of my friends who were amazing teachers have stopped teaching due to the issues they were dealing with. Those of you who are still doing it........... to you all!!! After 15 years I'm glad to be done!!

 

[Liberty Belle]

I have to wonder if this is legal? If you are in the classroom because a student's IEP states that he needs full time assistance, who is assisting him when you're working with the other students? I'm not trying to start an argument, I really am just curious.

I'm not sure the legality of it, but I am there to assist him if he needs me. If I were helping another student and he had a meltdown or needed to use the restroom, etc, I would stop what I was doing and help him.

He doesn't like me right by him most of the time (except for writing, when he needs me to put one hand on his head and another on his shoulder ), so it is beneficial to everyone if I'm in the room, but helping someone else.

When I leave the room to do the reading and math groups, he comes with me, as he is in the groups.

 

[Bluestars]

Just wanted to chime in and say a big thank you to all the teachers out there.

I can't imagine the frustration and patience it would take to deal with some of the parents who think everything revolves around their child. When I went to school, we did the work and didn't whine to our parents that we were bored, or that our creativity was being stifled, or a million other things. If we did whine, our parents didn't race to the school to change the rules just for us. It's painful just reading about some of the stuff teachers have to put up with.

Please remember that many of us parents support you and are so grateful for the time, energy, and effort you put into educating and guiding our children. The kindness and caring you have shown our kids is noticed and appreciated, and does make a difference.

 

[dipin]

I have to wonder if this is legal? If you are in the classroom because a student's IEP states that he needs full time assistance, who is assisting him when you're working with the other students? I'm not trying to start an argument, I really am just curious.

The legality of it all is really secondary (not that it should be) because of how underfunded special ed is. Just to give the national data, according to the Council for Exceptional Children, 68% of special ed teachers spend less than 2 hours a week in individual instruction with their students, and not because they are lazy or unwilling, but because the majority of them have to spend at least a day of the week doing paper work, and another day and a half of the week in meetings.

In the schools that actually hire special ed teachers, most of them have to assume the role of administrator (dealing with all IEP paperwork), counselor, and even janitor (fixing, cleaning and maintaining some of the materials for special ed).

In schools that don't, well, they often rely on people like my wife, who takes extra time to meet with special ed students on her free time.


And I am quite certain that whoever said that teaching was just like any other job has never taught in her life. Teaching you don't get to walk to the water cooler when you want a break, your dont simply turn off you computer and go home when you are done, you spend an inordinate amount of your free time doing school related stuff without any compensation.

There is a reason teaching is considered a career where "the reality is far worst than expectations" according to the US news and world report. There is a reason that careercast ranked teaching on the bottom half in its survey of job satisfaction, ranked behind sewage plant operator and shoe maker. There is a reason the level of stress involved in teaching is close to that involved in being an EMT. Finally, there is a reason 50% of teachers quit and change careers before 2 years on the job. Some people have the misguided notion that if only we make the teacher's life more miserable, they will improve, when in essence you are basically driving the good ones away.

If you know a good teacher, thank them, because they could be making considerably more money for a lot less stress, but still choose teaching because of the children.

 

[shellybaxter]

It is completely possible to think that IEP kids generate a lot of extra work for already overworked teachers AND to think that IEP kids deseve the extra attention they get plus much more.

Special needs education is the great unfunded mandate, and schools should pony up for the extra help instead of demanding teachers take care of it all by themselves.

I'm totally with you if you change one word in your post:

Special needs education is the great unfunded mandate, and TAXPAYERS should pony up for the extra help instead of demanding teachers take care of it all by themselves.

Schools don't have the ability to allocate more money for education - only taxpayers, through their representatived in the legislature do.

 

[castleview]

There are job requirements-including IEPs. Teachers know what is expected of them. Those can deal with it stay, those who can't leave. It is like any other job.





.

Ah yes, the quote often heard from the parent who only cares that the teacher cater to her own child and forget every other child.

 

[rie'smom]

Ah yes, the quote often heard from the parent who only cares that the teacher cater to her own child and forget every other child.

Ah yes, spoken like a true nonbeliever in equality in education until of course their special little one needs help.

You don't know me, you don't know my children, and you don't know their teachers. I have never expected that my children get any more attention than any other children.

A doctor gets tired of late nights, she quits medicine. An accountant just can't take the numbers anymore, he leaves his job. Nurses just cannot take seeing one more child with cancer, they leave the profession. It happens every day. Teaching is not different in this respect.

 

[dipin]

Ah yes, spoken like a true nonbeliever in equality in education until of course their special little one needs help.

You don't know me, you don't know my children, and you don't know their teachers. I have never expected that my children get any more attention than any other children.

A doctor gets tired of late nights, she quits medicine. An accountant just can't take the numbers anymore, he leaves his job. Nurses just cannot take seeing one more child with cancer, they leave the profession. It happens every day. Teaching is not different in this respect.

No one said anything about equality in education, or even about the necessity of IEPs and so on.


And no teacher is complaining about teaching. They are complaining about everything else they need to do on top of it without any help.

As an aside, when a parent's reactions to teachers demand for more help and funding for special ed is "don't like the amount of work you have now, quit," it is no wonder so many are indeed quitting. If anything, the idea that teachers should just "deal with it" is the main obstacle to equality in education.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

Ah yes, spoken like a true nonbeliever in equality in education until of course their special little one needs help.

You don't know me, you don't know my children, and you don't know their teachers. I have never expected that my children get any more attention than any other children.

A doctor gets tired of late nights, she quits medicine. An accountant just can't take the numbers anymore, he leaves his job. Nurses just cannot take seeing one more child with cancer, they leave the profession. It happens every day. Teaching is not different in this respect.

And what ever will the students do when, finally, ALL the competent teachers wise up and leave the profession. Look around. More and more of them are leaving the profession to people who aren't competent. That's the end result of that argument and that's close to where we stand now.

 

[MM27]

Ah yes, spoken like a true nonbeliever in equality in education until of course their special little one needs help.

You don't know me, you don't know my children, and you don't know their teachers. I have never expected that my children get any more attention than any other children.

A doctor gets tired of late nights, she quits medicine. An accountant just can't take the numbers anymore, he leaves his job. Nurses just cannot take seeing one more child with cancer, they leave the profession. It happens every day. Teaching is not different in this respect.

Here's the problem with your analogy though. The doctor is probably specialized in something, so they deal with that one particular area. In fact, they also probably had tons of training in that specialized area. Teachers in public schools are not all trained to be special education teachers, unless they majored in that. So when special ed students are put into a regular ed classroom without added support, it does create issues sometimes, especially if the child doesn't really belong in that type of setting. When you ask the dermatologist to start doing open heart surgery, sure he's going to get stressed out. Doesn't mean he's not a good dermatologist. It just means you're asking him to do something that he is not trained to do.

 

[castleview]

Here's the problem with your analogy though. The doctor is probably specialized in something, so they deal with that one particular area. In fact, they also probably had tons of training in that specialized area. Teachers in public schools are not all trained to be special education teachers, unless they majored in that. So when special ed students are put into a regular ed classroom without added support, it does create issues sometimes, especially if the child doesn't really belong in that type of setting. When you ask the dermatologist to start doing open heart surgery, sure he's going to get stressed out. Doesn't mean he's not a good dermatologist. It just means you're asking him to do something that he is not trained to do.

Exactly. And I would hate to see a wonderful teacher have to leave her job because she is physically unable to restrain a child. I realize that is an isolated example, but it's requested enough.