Taking your children for holidays during school is illegal in the UK

[TLSnell1981]

How?

How does it suck anymore than if a parent can't afford to go to wdw??? what, life's not worth living. my husband didn't take a vacation for 3 years when he was starting a business. life most certainly did NOT suck.

You do what a gabillion families have done for centuries, they have fun where they are. divorce is not new

Man, we have gotten way off course if a good childhood is determined by whether or not they see a cartoon mouse

Do you seriously feel that your kids life "sucks" if he never took another big trip??

Well, we disagree. Kids can miss 30 days...3 at a time and all is well. Although, a kid with good attendance can't miss 5 to vacation with their parent.

 

[Colleen27]

So the kids who are truant have to pay a fine. When they don't pay the fine, then they get thrown in jail. So how many truancies does it take to rack up $2,700 in fines? What kind of reporter doesn't ask that question?

If you click on the document link in the first paragraph, it shows the charges - 4 counts of failure to attend school at $340 per charge, each of those fines doubled for the failure to appear in court charge which is assessed when the original fines aren't paid. How in the world is that doing anything other than making a bad situation worse for kids living in poor and unstable home situations? The same goes for lesser penalties like expulsion or automatic failure; a kid who is struggling with a bad situation outside of school needs support to help keep up, not to be thrown out when they can't hold it together on their own.

 

[cjbcam]

The thing about Disney & Ireland is they are "open" 365 days a year while school is only in session 180. It doesn't take a math whizz to note that you can do such a vacation AND still attend every day of school (again, assuming you aren't one of the small minority stuck in a job that doesn't permit you to take off when kids are off).

I have a bit more understanding for those who vacation in places that cannot be done during the break. If we want to see a new President sworn in, go to the World Series, or attend a family wedding, there's no flexibility there. Disney though? That one's a bit harder to justify

To each their own I just know from my experience that the benefits far outweigh the consequences taking my kids out. My DH doesn't get to choose his time off so we go when his time off is.
IMO it is way better for the kids to have a vacation, than none at all, even if it means missing school. If I were to be fined for it we probably wouldn't go. Is it the end of the world? No, but it would suck for them to loose out on those opportunities.

 

[maxiesmom]

Liberty is
the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.
"compulsory retirement would interfere with individual liberty"
synonyms: independence, freedom, autonomy, sovereignty, self-government, self-rule, self-determination etc
(There is more this is a piece quoted from the definition of liberty on the Internet)
Being fined for taking a vacation is not being free to make your own choice about when to vacation therefore it is taking away your liberty.

That is beyond silly. May as well blame your job for taking away your liberty then too.

 

[Rhombus]

Take this with a grain of salt, because I don't know if it's true or not...

Yesterday was the first day of school for my kids (ok, that part is true). According to older DD (a HS Senior), her school is over enrolled. Because of that, anyone who was not present yesterday had their schedules torn up and they were unenrolled.

Again, I don't know if this is true or not. But, if so, it's another example of being willing to accept the consequences of your action (keeping kids out of school).

I can see the school tearing up the absent students schedules, and making them take the leftovers when they show up, but expelling or unenrolling them? Grain of salt.

It is more work for the teacher, especially tests. If a student needs to make up a test, a whole new test has to be devised. Because in this day and age of technology, especially with the older students, somebody has managed to take a picture of the test and post it online. It would be an unfair advantage for the student to be on vacation and then take a test they have already seen online somewhere.

There were also plenty of competitive parents (I am talking older students again,) whose children are vying for that top 5%, complaining that it was unfair for students on vacation to have an extra week to study for a test, or to do homework or a project.

Even in the stone ages, teachers usually prepared a different makeup test. And the absent kid usually asked friends what was on the test, and those friends were almost always willing to share.

In HS, there was this one girl who was notorious for being absent the day of tests. The history teacher got so fed up he made the makeup test the most difficult thing imaginable. Someone else who was also absent that day, but rarely was otherwise, complained that she had to take the exceedingly difficult makeup test because of exam-shy girl. Even the chemistry teacher joked one day when this girl was absent for another reason, "what, did you have a history test today?"

I know many of the times my mom took me out for a day when they called Dad would say I was sick. Now with many people not having home phones and just using cell phones that could work even when on vacation.

Why bother involving Dad? When I played hooky, <I> would call the school and pretend to be Mom saying little snowflake Rhombus is sick today. Parent were supposed to call in. If they didn't, then the school would call the parents.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

No one is saying kids won't flourish if they don't take a vacation. People are saying it should not be illegal to take your kids on vacation.
I think anytime spent as family time is good. But vacations are the only time we can drop everything else and concentrate on family time. These memories are just as important as everyday memories.
I know my kids talk all the time about Disney. They also talk about memories made at home. You can make memories anywhere however I choose to make some at Disney, some in Ireland, some at the cabin, some at home ect. I personally would hate not having the control and feeling like a criminal while doing nothing wrong.

That's the thing. Taking your child on vacation is not illegal. Most schools are in session for 180 days each year. That leaves 185 days to take vacations. My family went to NYC for a week during spring break this year. We just got back from a week at Disneyland and Universal Hollywood. We're planning a cruise out of New Orleans for President's Week break in February. We get around and no one has to miss school.

 

[MSLRAC]

In our district, teachers can and do take vacations during times classes are in session.

Same in our district and I miss far more days for teacher development sessions than I do vacation.

 

[cjbcam]

That is beyond silly. May as well blame your job for taking away your liberty then too.

You can't get fined for missing work but you can for missing school. You will probably lose your job but I think the two are completely different.
Being fined means you have done something wrong. I don't think taking a vacation is wrong and it wasn't me who brought up liberty. Even though it does sound silly it is what it is.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Honestly, why do we still have the 3 month summer break in the U.S.? Most kids are no longer working the fields and teachers spend weeks reviewing, what kids forgot over the summer.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Liberty is
the state of being free within society from oppressive restrictions imposed by authority on one's way of life, behavior, or political views.
"compulsory retirement would interfere with individual liberty"
synonyms: independence, freedom, autonomy, sovereignty, self-government, self-rule, self-determination etc
(There is more this is a piece quoted from the definition of liberty on the Internet)
Being fined for taking a vacation is not being free to make your own choice about when to vacation therefore it is taking away your liberty.

The United Kingdom isn't subject to any part of the Declaration of Independence. Clearly, it's 100% legal in the UK to fine parents for taking students out of school to go on vacation.

 

[Colleen27]

Honestly, why do we still have the 3 month summer break in the U.S.? Most kids are no longer working the fields and teachers spend weeks reviewing, what kids forgot over the summer.

Amen! There are a few schools in our area that have gone to a year-round schedule and it is such a great idea IMO. It would really cut down on the number of families who can't manage to work around one break or another because they'd be spaced out throughout the year, and it would eliminate the summer backsliding academically. But between "That's how it has always been" and concerns over how sports schedules would be affected the idea never seems to catch on beyond the elem level. And implementing it piecemeal is really hard on families who have kids at more than one level because each school has a different break schedule.

 

[eliza61]

Honestly, why do we still have the 3 month summer break in the U.S.? Most kids are no longer working the fields and teachers spend weeks reviewing, what kids forgot over the summer.

For the same reasons we see here. Parents would start screaming about how little sally and Sam are some how going to not be " balanced" and how precious family time would be lost if kids went to school year round.

We've tried many Times in SJ and the number one resistors? parents who wouldn't be able to go to the Jersey shore or Disney. Number 2, teachers Unions

We have 2 in Philly, one is a private school, one is a charter school. kids go for 7 weeks then get a 10 day break ( i think, i can't remember) and then have the normal holidays

 

[Rhombus]

Back in my school days, they used to give out perfect attendance awards. A very small handful received the award for 4 years perfect attendance in high school. I am sure it had an impact to deter families from pulling kids out for vacation.

They also did when I was in school back in the stone ages, and did when DD was in HS. The "award" was a certificate suitable for the bottom of a birdcage.

There was this one girl who raised a stink when she didn't get her perfect attendance award. You see, she took a few days off senior year to visit colleges. "But they were EXCUSED absences," she whined. Somehow she couldn't comprehend that the word "absence" was in her excuse. Nope, and the kids who took vacations didn't get perfect attendance awards either, even though their absences may have been excused.

Actually, very few kids took vacations during the school year when I was in HS. It was almost unheard of at the time.

When DD was in school, yes, the practice was much more prevalent, but dagnabit, I pay over $4000 per year in school taxes, and I'm gonna get my money's worth by making DD keep her butt in class!!!

So 1 week of school can be made up with 1 hour of make up work. If this is really the case, why don't we save a TON of tax money and do all of school like this. The 36 weeks that is currently spent in school can be done with 36 hours of work. Voila!

Yeah, that was a good one. Real quality education program they're providing there. ( Ooops, excuse me, there providing their. ) And the kids are getting good grades? Big whoop. Sounds like a district where everyone gets a trophy even if they DON'T show up.

Oh, and back to that funding thing. Less attendance means less $$$ for the school. It's hard to attract quality teachers and maintain reasonable class size when the state is docking hundreds of thousands of dollars out of your budget due to poor attendance.

Hopefully, those who take their kids out of school to save travel expenses over peak travel times are also voting "yes" when the school asks for tax increases

Shirley you jest.

 

[TLSnell1981]

For the same reasons we see here. Parents would start screaming about how little sally and Sam are some how going to not be " balanced" and how precious family time would be lost if kids went to school year round.

We've tried many Times in SJ and the number one resistors? parents who wouldn't be able to go to the Jersey shore or Disney. Number 2, teachers Unions

We have 2 in Philly, one is a private school, one is a charter school. kids go for 7 weeks then get a 10 day break ( i think, i can't remember) and then have the normal holidays

I'm surprised teacher's unions aren't the #1 reason.

Pretty much the rest of the world has found a way to adjust school schedules. Sadly, the U.S is stuck on a system, that was developed, over 100 years ago.

 

[tvguy]

That may very well be true, but it's a completely different discussion than whether or not schools should enforce attendance.

Not at all. The sharp decline in time spent in school in the past 20 years, whether it be for vacation, fewer instruction days, or short school year are all factors.

 

[eliza61]

I'm surprised teacher's unions aren't the #1 reason.

Pretty much the rest of the world has found a way to adjust school schedules. Sadly, the U.S is stuck on a system, that was developed, over 100 years ago.

The US is stuck on many issues that the rest of the world has embraced. lol, We see it here, it's my kid, I should be able to do what I want, when I want.
We are a nation that will always put individuality over the common good. if it inconveniences "me" in any fashion it's not going to happen.

That's a very simplistic reason but pretty much the bottom line

 

[MrsCobraBubbles]

No, public school is structured to provide an education to the masses. The masses require all that time for instruction. Some students would require less. Some students would require more. But all will be getting the same instruction.

You're right. I stand by my statement though, since it applies to my son. It's busy work. He's gifted, and our district refuses to skip grades so I'd have to either homeschool or put him in private, and now that he's in secondary grades private school is ridiculously expensive. He enjoys his gifted classes though, but even with those he's not being properly challenged. Starting this year he'll be in AP classes, I'm anxious to see how he does with those.

 

[tvguy]

I don't agree with this statement. Our kids are being educated. My son is halfway through high school and has been a public school student since kindergarten. He's doing very well. He comes home everyday telling me about something interesting a teacher said, or a cool experiment they did in science class. They created an entire socialist society in World History and schemed to over-through their leader. He couldn't wait to get to school each day since deals where being made in the halls between classes. He learned more in that simulation than he ever could have from a book or a worksheet. It required being present at school, every day. We support him in any way we can. The key to education is that the student has to be fully engaged and the parents have to provide support. Make sure they have the right materials. Help them along if they get stuck. Find a tutor if you can't help them with something. Make sure they're completing their homework. Participate in back-to-school nights and parent/teacher conferences. If you have time, volunteer at the school. Most of all, make sure your child is at school, on time, every day unless they're sick or there are other extenuating circumstances. That's how you can ensure your kids are being educated.

Here's what I don't understand if our children are truly being educated.
College Freshman are entering college with the highest GPAs ever.
College Freshman are entering college with the highest SAT and ACT scores ever.
College Freshman are entering college with the highest rate ever having to take remedial Math and English classes because they aren't prepared.

Something is wrong there.

 

[monsterkitty]

It's funny everyone thinks the rules (in the US) are about education, when in reality they are 100% about funding. Schools get money for every kid in school each day. That's the ONLY reason the rules exist.

Not true in every state! In my state we have what's called "October Count". We have one day in October where the students are counted in every school and that determines the funding for the year. They also take an average of attendance for the 5 days before and 5 days after the October Count day so that schools can still receive funding for absent students. If in case there is a student who is absent for the entire October Count time period the school can the show proof that the student does indeed attend the school but for whatever reason was not in classes during the 11-day time period. I know we're not the only state to have such a policy, the surrounding states do as well.

The one indicator for increased student achievement is attendance. Students who are in their classes do learn more than those with several absences. There are some students who can miss 10 plus days a year and still show significant growth, but those students are not the norm. With the increased demands on high test scores districts and states have implemented stricter attendance regulations.

 

[Flight]

Here's what I don't understand if our children are truly being educated.
College Freshman are entering college with the highest GPAs ever.
College Freshman are entering college with the highest SAT and ACT scores ever.
College Freshman are entering college with the highest rate ever having to take remedial Math and English classes because they aren't prepared.

Something is wrong there.

Classes and programs developed just to prepare students for these tests.

Classroom curriculum that spends a lot of time teaching to pass the tests, especially the state testing.

It drives me nuts watching the time spent on ensuring high test scores while ignoring the importance of actual education.