Take the car seats on the plane or not?

[kevschickee]

Because it put him in danger - he was not legally OLD enough to ride forward facing. Would you put your under 1 year old forward facing in a car? By law we could not.



Thanks for sharing your opinion! I never said I was asking anyone to not recline their seat.



Thanks for sharing your opinion! I didn't inconvenience anyone and to be honest, while I know this is not the transportation board, purchasing a seat on an airplane does NOT guarantee you that the seat reclines. As a parent I was protecting my child and following the law. He wasn't old enough to sit forward facing. I'm guessing you MISSED that in your comment.



Thanks for your opinion! Again, I didn't state that anyone was forced not to recline their seat but I do appreciate the feedback. Our son was not old enough to forward face at the time. I was simply offering the OP an option if she wanted her child to rear face. The FAA says that we have that right.

But is does not mean you can impede on the comfort of another traveler. If I was the person in front of your son an adult in your party would be changing seats with me. Also carseats are not the law for planes like they are for cars.

 

[mybabesuz]

Yes bring the seats on the plane...
You and your children will have a much more enjoyable flight.
It makes the kids feel much more secure and safe.

The seats the OP is using are very light (only 7 lbs) and come with a cover with handles to carry.
They are very easy to carry.

 

[jodifla]

Because it put him in danger - he was not legally OLD enough to ride forward facing. Would you put your under 1 year old forward facing in a car? By law we could not.



Thanks for sharing your opinion! I never said I was asking anyone to not recline their seat.



Thanks for sharing your opinion! I didn't inconvenience anyone and to be honest, while I know this is not the transportation board, purchasing a seat on an airplane does NOT guarantee you that the seat reclines. As a parent I was protecting my child and following the law. He wasn't old enough to sit forward facing. I'm guessing you MISSED that in your comment.



Thanks for your opinion! Again, I didn't state that anyone was forced not to recline their seat but I do appreciate the feedback. Our son was not old enough to forward face at the time. I was simply offering the OP an option if she wanted her child to rear face. The FAA says that we have that right.

The law is meant for CARS, not PLANES!!

There is no law about rear facing in planes. You are mistaken.

 

[Erica09M]

You must use the car seat according to the manufacturers instructions. Therefore, you can not forward face a child before they are 1 year old and before they are 20 pounds (or 22 pounds on some seats). So no, she could not have forward faced her child who was not yet 1 year old.

 

[Erica09M]

Also, would you rather not be able to recline your seat (it's not like a real recline, those seats barely recline) or would you rather my almost 2 year old kick the back of your seat for our 3 hour trip? Rear facing, she'll be kicking her own seat... not yours!

And, not kicking it in frustration or because she's upset... but kicking it because she's a kid that moves around and gets excited. And even if I try to stop her from kicking your seat, it's still going to happen.

 

[jodifla]

You must use the car seat according to the manufacturers instructions. Therefore, you can not forward face a child before they are 1 year old and before they are 20 pounds (or 22 pounds on some seats). So no, she could not have forward faced her child who was not yet 1 year old.

In all my flights, I've seen MAYBE one rear-facing seat on a plane. Almost everyone installs their seat forward racing OR just has a lap baby.

So "must" hardly seems to apply, particularly since the FA didn't want her to rear-face the seat.

 

[Erica09M]

In all my flights, I've seen MAYBE one rear-facing seat on a plane. Almost everyone installs their seat forward racing OR just has a lap baby.

So "must" hardly seems to apply, particularly since the FA didn't want her to rear-face the seat.

A lot of FAs are actually misinformed or misunderstand the FAA's guidelines for car seat usage. They mistake what actually says that the seat that the child restraint is installed on must be forward facing for "the car seat must be forward facing" which is why I will be flying with a print out of the guidelines to show the misinformed/misunderstanding FA if we come across one. Some parents don't actually know what the FAA guildelines are, so if a misinformed FA tells them it can't go rear facing, they don't challenge it.

Check out page 6 (10 C.) (bolded & underlined for my emphasis)
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/60d70126cf679d5a8625723b007841e7/$FILE/AC%20120-87A.pdf

the child is properly secured in the CRS, the CRS is properly secured in a forward-facing seat, the child does not exceed the weight limits of the CRS, and the CRS is approved and has the proper labels or markings.

 

[chipscinderelly]

In all my flights, I've seen MAYBE one rear-facing seat on a plane. Almost everyone installs their seat forward racing OR just has a lap baby.

So "must" hardly seems to apply, particularly since the FA didn't want her to rear-face the seat.

The FA was wrong which is why the airline sent us a follow up apology letter and a credit.

A lot of FAs are actually misinformed or misunderstand the FAA's guidelines for car seat usage. They mistake what actually says that the seat that the child restraint is installed on must be forward facing for "the car seat must be forward facing" which is why I will be flying with a print out of the guidelines to show the misinformed/misunderstanding FA if we come across one. Some parents don't actually know what the FAA guildelines are, so if a misinformed FA tells them it can't go rear facing, they don't challenge it.

Check out page 6 (10 C.) (bolded & underlined for my emphasis)
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulator...cf679d5a8625723b007841e7/$FILE/AC 120-87A.pdf

Thanks Erica - that's the information I was referring the OP to as it's each person's decision how they handle flying and their children. We choose to pay for a seat and bring his car seat as that is what works for OUR family.

 

[Cedarmom]

Erica seems to have this one. For anyone not wanting to follow links, if a car seat is FAA approved, it may be used on a plane any way it is used in a car. For most convertible seats, this means a child can be rear facing in the airplane until between 30-40 lbs (depending on the seat). Unfortunately, most FAs are not aware of this and sometimes they choose to challenge you.

For the 11 month old, I'm glad they realized their error and apologized. Internal decapitation anyone???? A rough landing could have had major consequences. I'm so glad your son was okay.

But is does not mean you can impede on the comfort of another traveler. If I was the person in front of your son an adult in your party would be changing seats with me. Also carseats are not the law for planes like they are for cars.

oh oh me me!! If you want to change seats so that you are sitting next to my rfing kid while I sit in front of them, I'll gladly let you!!

But really. The safety of someone's child wins over comfort. Every time.

 

[kevschickee]

Erica seems to have this one. For anyone not wanting to follow links, if a car seat is FAA approved, it may be used on a plane any way it is used in a car. For most convertible seats, this means a child can be rear facing in the airplane until between 30-40 lbs (depending on the seat). Unfortunately, most FAs are not aware of this and sometimes they choose to challenge you.

For the 11 month old, I'm glad they realized their error and apologized. Internal decapitation anyone???? A rough landing could have had major consequences. I'm so glad your son was okay.




oh oh me me!! If you want to change seats so that you are sitting next to my rfing kid while I sit in front of them, I'll gladly let you!!

But really. The safety of someone's child wins over comfort. Every time.

I disagree and I have children. I can not expect people to give anything up for my children.

 

[Cedarmom]

eh. Then we can agree to disagree. I don't expect someone to give up a prime parade spot so my precious can see, but I do expect to be able to keep my child as safe as possible on a flight. If that happens to mean the person in front of them can't recline, I don't feel bad. I've bought my 6 month old a plane ticket for our wdw trip. Shell be in an infant seat, so there's the possibility the person in front of her won't be able to recline. I won't feel bad about that. She has the right to be safe.

It wouldn't even be a problem if the dern airlines would leave the seat pitch well enough alone and stop trying to cram a few more passengers aboard by taking away precious inches from everyone.

ah well. C'est la vie.

 

[kevschickee]

eh. Then we can agree to disagree. I don't expect someone to give up a prime parade spot so my precious can see, but I do expect to be able to keep my child as safe as possible on a flight. If that happens to mean the person in front of them can't recline, I don't feel bad. I've bought my 6 month old a plane ticket for our wdw trip. Shell be in an infant seat, so there's the possibility the person in front of her won't be able to recline. I won't feel bad about that. She has the right to be safe.

It wouldn't even be a problem if the dern airlines would leave the seat pitch well enough alone and stop trying to cram a few more passengers aboard by taking away precious inches from everyone.

ah well. C'est la vie.

 

[jodifla]

http://www.airsafe.com/kidsafe/chldseat.htm

- The FAA recommends that a child weighing less than 20 pounds (9.1 kilos) use a rear-facing CRS, that one weighing from 20 to 40 pounds (9.1 to 18.1 kilos) use a forward-facing CRS, an dthat those over 40 pounds (18.1 kilos) use an airplane seat belt


again, it's a RECOMMENDATION, not the law.

 

[Erica09M]

http://www.airsafe.com/kidsafe/chldseat.htm

- The FAA recommends that a child weighing less than 20 pounds (9.1 kilos) use a rear-facing CRS, that one weighing from 20 to 40 pounds (9.1 to 18.1 kilos) use a forward-facing CRS, an dthat those over 40 pounds (18.1 kilos) use an airplane seat belt


again, it's a RECOMMENDATION, not the law.

Yes, the FAA recommends children using a car seat on a plane. No, it is not a law.

However, a child restraint MUST be used per manufacturers instructions no matter if it's on an airplane or in a car. There are no car seat manufacturers that allow a child less than one year of age and less than 20 pounds to forward face. Therefore, a child less than 1 & 20 will be rear facing on an airplane... unless the parents don't know how the car seat is supposed to be used, which is why you see poor little babies forward facing before 1 & 20.



And, as long as my child isn't over the weight limits of the car seat... I can use it anyway I want. If I have a 35 pound child and I want to rear face them on the plane in their car seat that allows rear facing up to 40 pounds, I can do that. If I have a 60 pound child that I want to ride in their harnesses car seat that harnesses to 80 pounds, I can do that.

 

[NotUrsula]

http://www.airsafe.com/kidsafe/chldseat.htm

- The FAA recommends that a child weighing less than 20 pounds (9.1 kilos) use a rear-facing CRS, that one weighing from 20 to 40 pounds (9.1 to 18.1 kilos) use a forward-facing CRS, an dthat those over 40 pounds (18.1 kilos) use an airplane seat belt

again, it's a RECOMMENDATION, not the law.

Well, it is the parent's choice to use or not use the carseat -- that part is a recommendation.

The part that is the law is that *if* the parent chooses to use the carseat and pay for a "berth" to put it in, the airline must allow the child to use it in a manner consistent with the mfr. instructions.

from the Code of Federal Regulations, 14 CFR 121.311:

(2) Except as required in paragraph
(c)(1) of this section, no certificate
holder may prohibit a child, if requested
by the child’s parent, guardian,
or designated attendant, from occupying
a child restraint system furnished
by the child’s parent, guardian,
or designated attendant provided—
(i) The child holds a ticket for an approved​

seat or berth or such seat or ...

and from FAA advisory circular 120-87A (http://www.carseat.org/Legal/FAA-AC120-87A.pdf):

18. PLACEMENT OF CRS ON THE AIRCRAFT. ​

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]CRSs must be installed in forward-facing aircraft seats, in accordance with instructions on the label. This includes placing the CRS in the ​

[/FONT][/FONT]Par 16 Page 11 AC 120-87A 12/1/06
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

appropriate forward or aft-facing direction as indicated on the label for the size of the child. A window seat is the preferred location; however, other locations may be acceptable, provided the CRS does not block the egress of any passenger, including the child’s parent or guardian, to the aisle used to evacuate the aircraft. The regulations contained in §§ 91.107, 121.311, 125.211, and 135.128 allow aircraft operators to determine the most appropriate passenger seat location for CRSs based on safe operating practices. In making this determination, an aircraft operator should consider the following: ...​

[/FONT]​

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]​

[/FONT][/FONT]

The above-quoted advisory circular was issued in 2006 to spell out exactly what the airline can and cannot control under the law when it comes to carseat use, because of all the complaints that they were getting from parents who had been told that they could not use the carseat on board for one reason or another, or that they could not install it rear-facing.

Essentially, the airline can control which seat that the FAA-approved carseat may be used in. However, if the child is a paid passenger, this also confers upon the airline the responsibility of making a useable seat available for the carseat, even if it means forcibly relocating an adult passenger to make room for it and for one adult to sit next to it. This is one of the very few circumstances in which an FA has the power to order a passenger to switch seats with another passenger. (However, they will normally try persuasion and bribes first; coercion is the remedy of absolute last resort.)

One last point. The law also requires that a child in a carseat be seated next to an adult who will be responsible for that child's safety in the event of an emergency evacuation. If the child who is in a carseat is accompanied by only one adult, then there will be no possibility of that person sitting in the row in front of the carseat. When both of us travel with a little one in the carseat, one of us always sits in front of it, because it is the polite thing to do when it's possible. However, as a general rule, we're both present on only about half the occasions that she travels by air.

 

[jodifla]

I agree that the airline must allow you to use the seat rear or forward facing, however the parent wants. The airline was in error for the previous PP.

However, I still say it's not against the law to let your child ride forward facing on an airplane in a carseat. If it were, the airline lawyers would make sure that everyone was doing it, JUST like they make sure NO CHILD UNDER 2 is a lap baby.

Also, using this logic, every car trip is HORRIBLE, because every car trip is FAR, FAR, FAR more dangerous than transporting your baby on an airplane, whether they ride restrained or in your lap.

 

[Bren's Mom]

The reality is that travel by car is far more dangerous statistically than travel by air.

THIS is the reason that the FAA does not REQUIRE infants to have their own seat, i.e. why they allow lap babies. The logic is that if the parents could not afford a seat the children would then likely be traveling by car, putting them at greater risk.

However, that does not mean that traveling with a lap baby is safe. Simply that, statistically, it is safER than traveling by car. Traveling with an infant IN a car seat in a plane would be even safER than having the child on your lap. It is up to parents to evaluate this risk and make a decision accordingly.

As a CPST, and as the sister and sister-in-law of commercial airline pilots, my parental decision (and that of my sister and BIL) is to never travel with a lap baby, and to not allow a child under 3 to travel without a car seat. With a child over 3, who is comfortable with traveling, and of a weight sufficient so the plane seat belt will fit properly, I have made the parental decision to travel with my child in his own plane seat but not in a car seat.