Swan and Dolphin Rumors?

[Sorcerer_Matt]

Hi Everyone,

Are there, or were there any rumors about Disney
ever considering buying the Swan and Dolphin Resorts?
Thanks,
Matt

 

[mikek]

I've heard both ways-

that in the past Disney thought of booting them, but westin (or whoever it was back then) had them over a barrel when they were built. At the time disney was shy on cash so they had the hotel company(s) put up the cash. In return the hotels got decent contracts that disney couldnt renege on, the only out is if the service is sub-par then disney is permitted to take over.

THe other story i've heard is the opposite- that disney makes a good cut without the risk- so as long as they can take over if quality suffers- they dont mind the status quo.

Anyone know which is correct?

 

[KerriL]

Well, here's another rumor...at the end of the leases Disney will implode the two resorts. Rumor has it that Disney was never thrilled with the Michael Graves designs and they don't want to operate the resorts when the leases expire.
But it seems too far fetched...although it came straight from a Walt Disney Attractions (now Walt Disney Parks & Resorts) CM.
Kerri

 

[cindyfan]

So when do the leases expire????
IMHO I never liked any of Micheal Graves designs anyway! But Swan/Dolphin do very good business!

 

[Werner Weiss]

The Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin are owned by Tishman Hotel Corporation, a part Tishman Realty & Construction Co., Inc., the contractor for much or Epcot.

The story goes like this: Walt Disney Productions (as the company was called before the Eisner-Wells management team was brought in) recognized that WDW needed more hotels. But after the huge capital investment in what was then called EPCOT Center, they made the financial decision not to build the hotels themselves. Tishman got the nod. The new management team brought in new financing, and would have liked to stop the Tishman Hotel deal, but they were contractually bound. The story continues that Tishman planned to build typical, bland, unthemed hotels. Eisner is an architecture buff, so Disney negoitiated an arrangement whereby Tishman would build the hotels, but The Walt Disney Company would pick the architect. Eisner picked Michael Graves, whose distinctive designs are sometimes beautiful, sometimes ugly -- but never boring or bland.

Originally, the Dolphin was affiliated with Sheraton and the Swan with Westin -- back when Sheraton and Westin were seperate companies. Now Sheraton and Westin are both owned by Starwood. The hotels are now marketed as The Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin, and are listed in the Sheraton and Westin directories but without being branded as Sheraton and Westin hotels.

I think it's highly unlikely that these hotels would be imploded, even after the current contract between Tishman and Disney runs out. It's even less likely that Disney would buy out the contract just in order to implode the buildings.

 

[Sorcerer_Matt]

I don't know how true the implosion thing sounds, but what do I know. Anyway, when the contract does run out, why would Disney implode two very large hotels? Wouldn't you think that Disney would change them a little and "recycle" them and then call them Disney hotels?
It would cost too much money to implode them and rebuild another hotel, but if they have other motives than building another hotel, than maybe an implosion is the only way. But it is not like they could fit a theme park in the little chunk of property the two hotels are located on.
-Matt

I hope my thoughts made sense.

 

[Wantogo]

They are two money making hotels for Disney. And are popular for many visitors to WDW. Disney does not own them but, they do manage them ( for a fee of course) and have Q&C over them.

It may not be the perfect situation for Disney but a profit making one.

 

[Werner Weiss]

Wantogo wrote:

Disney does not own them but, they do manage them ( for a fee of course) and have Q&C over them.

Are you sure that Disney manages the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin? Of course Tishman pays fees to Disney for various things (property lease, guest transportation, and who knows what else). But I always assumed that these hotels are either managed by Starwood or a managed by Tishman under a franchise arrangement with Starwood. Does anyone know the business arrangement?

 

[Another Voice]

Disney has very little to do with the Swan and Dolphin resorts. Disney owns the land, but either thing else is owned and operated by others. The whole affair about the creation of these hotels involved herds of lawyers and was very nasty. No one will give anything up without a fight. And it will be a long time for the leases elapse. The hotels do a very profitable convention business that Starwood does not want to give up.

And no, those black squares in the buildings do not mark the spots where the monorail was supposed / is going to run through the buildings. That started as a bad cast member rumor and it just won’t die.

As for the destruction of the buildings – Michael Eisner LOVES the buildings. Mr. Eisner is a huge architecture fan that collects signature buildings like a Disneyland Annual Passholder collects pins. I’ve even heard rumors that Mr. Eisner prefers staying in the Swan & Dolphin over the “tacky” hotels elsewhere on property (Eisner’s not really into historical themeing). Mr. Eisner hired the hotel’s architect to design the signature corporate headquarters building shortly after the Swan and Dolphin were completed.

Then again… Architects have ego, “name” architects have even bigger ones. During the opening festivities of the Swan & Dolphin, the architect (Michael Graves) made several off hand, but disparaging, comments about the Yacht & Beach Club resort nearby. The one I particularly remember is that they looked like the servants quarters for his wonderfully modern masterpieces.

The architect for the “servant’s quarters” now sits on Disney’s Board of Directors – and I’ve heard rumors that Mr. Stern has a long memory.

 

[HorizonsFan]

Thanks for the great info AV. I might add that Michael Graves uses large black squares in many of his designs, much like the ones in the Swan/Dolphin that sparked the monorail rumor. I have stayed at the Swan and it is a very nice, well run hotel. While I like the design of this resort, I think that the buildings look a little out of place in their current surroundings. But, as you said they make alot of money so they're not going anywhere.
BTW, anybody seen Michael Graves' merchandise at Target? His stuff looks as out of place there as the Swan/Dolphin do next to the Y/BC and the BW...

 

[lodgelady]

I have a wonderful Disney vacation planning booklet from 1997 which I keep because it still has better photos and descriptions of the resorts than the little flyers that are given out these days.....anyway, in this publication, the S&D are given the same amount of advertising as the Disney run hotels. Now it seems that S&D are on their own for marketing purposes. Interestingly, the hotels of DD and "good neighbor" hotels are also included in this publication by The Walt Disney Travel Company. I wonder if all this Disney hotel development has left these auxiliary properties being the "poor relations". That would be a sad outcome of the building boom.

 

[Wantogo]

I stand corrected. Disney does not manage Swan/Dolphin. I check with them and they said it is indeed owned by Tishman and manged by Starwoods.

 

[DC7800]

Originally posted by cindyfan
So when do the leases expire????
IMHO I never liked any of Micheal Graves designs anyway! But Swan/Dolphin do very good business!

I'd like to know when the leases expire, too. I do like most of Michael Graves designs, though. Next year I have to take a peek inside these hotels.

 

[disneydude]

Just for your info: Tisman/ Starwoods contract the following to manage the hotels

The Swan: Westin Resorts

The Dolphin: Shearton International

 

[Channel1tv]

And no, those black squares in the buildings do not mark the spots where the monorail was supposed / is going to run through the buildings. That started as a bad cast member rumor and it just won’t die.

Yes you are Correct,
The Big Black Spot is part of the Graves design.
But the Monorail was supposed to run through the 3rd and 4th floors. This is where the rumor got twisted. If you look at the area just above the the entrance, you will see the area the monorail was to pass through but the plans were scrapped.