Stroller as wheelchair and Disney buses

[disney david]

Never mind

 

[marcyleecorgan]

Almost a year of reading the Transportation subforum has taught me one thing: Disney Buses don't really follow the same standard rules of etiquette that normal public transportation does. Sometimes it does, but more often it doesn't, resulting in frustration from those who expected the accessibility to be the same.

Disney Buses only are on one route, for one purpose only : transporting Guests to and from Park Property and Resort Property. Therefore, everyone is going somewhere important and needs to be there sooner, like now.
Not like public transport which has rush hours and express commute lines because of the working populace. Everyone is tired and sore and cranky after a full day in the Parks, so of course most people want to sit down.

I would imagine that most workers who take public transport do NOT show up at their bus stop, to see a regular crowd of 4 ECVs and a variety of other disabled people who will NEED to take up the majority of the seats/tie-down's in the bus. Anyone here in our city who has disability issues is highly highly highly recommended to sign up with our Transit Access services (you schedule your trip, they come with the shorter bus and all the lifts and safety equipment to your door, but it's NOT the regular bus!!!) Oftentimes, the bus driver already has so many standing passengers that they can't put another disabled person on the bus, they do have to wait for the next one. Throwing able-bodied fare-paying customers off your bus to bring on the disabled never ends well for the transit company ; they usually have to pay some settlement out of court for it. I would imagine Disney would be the same.

If I am able to offer my seat, I will, but more likely, I myself am sore, cranky, in pain and probably looking after my DD, so if you NEED to sit down, then sit down on the pavement and wait for the next bus. And my DH just spent an equal time of walking and toting our DD all day, so don't ask him to move because we've ALL had a long tiring day at the Parks. Like all the rest of the Disney Guests. You do your thing, and I'll do mine. But I won't give up something because you feel more entitled to have it - we all are entitled equally to a Disney vacation

And most of the time, I open doors for EVERYONE, regardless of gender. I also try to give up my seat whenever possible on public transportation in our city. I try to guide the strollers and the ECV's to the front of the line to quicken loading. But Disney buses aren't for the same purpose as public transportation...

 

[nyviolet]

Well, I am a wheelchair user who has taken Disney buses before, did not find it a problem. Yes, they were crowded and I'm sure people were tired. Happy to wait for the next bus if there is no room, would not ask someone to move. While taking public transit in my city or elsewhere I would never expect to throw other customers off a bus, I'd wait for the next one. Usually not a problem since I'm most of the time the only wheelchair user to get on the bus at one time. Sometimes they have to ask people to move out of the seats where the wheelchair tie-ins are. By the way I am also a paying customer and have the same right to ride the public bus. Not everyone with a disability is eligible for paratransit. You have to be unable to get to the regular bus stop or use the bus. It also costs more than the regular bus and has to be scheduled several days ahead of time. They are often late, pick up multiple people and a simple trip can take many hours longer. I do things spontaneously, not always on a schedule. And some of us, including me, do work... and need to get to work reliably.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Almost a year of reading the Transportation subforum has taught me one thing: Disney Buses don't really follow the same standard rules of etiquette that normal public transportation does. Sometimes it does, but more often it doesn't, resulting in frustration from those who expected the accessibility to be the same.

Disney Buses only are on one route, for one purpose only : transporting Guests to and from Park Property and Resort Property. Therefore, everyone is going somewhere important and needs to be there sooner, like now.
Not like public transport which has rush hours and express commute lines because of the working populace. Everyone is tired and sore and cranky after a full day in the Parks, so of course most people want to sit down.

I would imagine that most workers who take public transport do NOT show up at their bus stop, to see a regular crowd of 4 ECVs and a variety of other disabled people who will NEED to take up the majority of the seats/tie-down's in the bus. Anyone here in our city who has disability issues is highly highly highly recommended to sign up with our Transit Access services (you schedule your trip, they come with the shorter bus and all the lifts and safety equipment to your door, but it's NOT the regular bus!!!) Oftentimes, the bus driver already has so many standing passengers that they can't put another disabled person on the bus, they do have to wait for the next one. Throwing able-bodied fare-paying customers off your bus to bring on the disabled never ends well for the transit company ; they usually have to pay some settlement out of court for it. I would imagine Disney would be the same.

If I am able to offer my seat, I will, but more likely, I myself am sore, cranky, in pain and probably looking after my DD, so if you NEED to sit down, then sit down on the pavement and wait for the next bus. And my DH just spent an equal time of walking and toting our DD all day, so don't ask him to move because we've ALL had a long tiring day at the Parks. Like all the rest of the Disney Guests. You do your thing, and I'll do mine. But I won't give up something because you feel more entitled to have it - we all are entitled equally to a Disney vacation

And most of the time, I open doors for EVERYONE, regardless of gender. I also try to give up my seat whenever possible on public transportation in our city. I try to guide the strollers and the ECV's to the front of the line to quicken loading. But Disney buses aren't for the same purpose as public transportation...

one thing to remember when boarding a Disney bus, if you are not ready to give up your seat make sure it is not one of the foldable seats that will be folded if wheelchair/ECV come on later

 

[shellyj]

We just returned from spending our Thanksgiving giving at Disney. My DD (6) has some medical needs. I usually rent a stroller for her in the parks, and she does fine waiting in short lines. This trip she was a bit run down at the beginning, and by the middle, she wasn't doing well at all and I had to get a wheelchair tag for her stroller. This was our first experience with needing accommodations at Disney. Overall it was a positive experience. It was much less stressful on her (and me) once we had the wheelchair tag.

While waiting in the bus line, can she get out and sit on the sidewalk (bring a sit upon if needed) so you can fold the stroller before the bus arrives? Or immediately after seeing the bus turn in? We are always watching for the bus and from most stations you can see it before it is parked in front of you. That's how we handle it so we don't either hold up the line or lose our place in line. If the bus seems too full to ensure a seat for my child who needs one, we let others go by so we are near the front of the line for the next bus.

The grumpy lady with bad knees may have needed her seat just as much as your daughter needed one. If you find yourself in a position where you absolutely have to ask for a seat, I would ask an entire section of the bus, not just one person. "Is anyone willing to give their seat to my daughter? She has a disability and cannot safely stand while the bus is moving"

 

[ColoradoMom12]

Thanks, everyone. This has been very insightful. We will eventually need to purchase our own special needs stroller for use at home. It would be very difficult to travel with it because I'm not sure I could fit one along with our luggage into our car. For now DD still fits into the stroller (which we also rent as I can't fit a stroller plus luggage in the car. Sounds like it's time for a bigger car). She'll fit into the City Mini for a few years at least I think. And now I have ideas so that I can have a plan in place if DD needs a wheelchair on future trips. This trip was flying by the seat of my pants. I should have been better prepared than I was, honestly. Thanks for all of the replies!

 

[SueM in MN]

This is incorrect. MOST of the special needs strollers that are rented are NOT equipped for transport tie-down.

OP -- from what I've found in the past looking into this question, most if not all of the standard "baby stroller" rental companies will not have a special needs stroller designed for tie-down. The most common rentals appears to be the Liberty or Freedom pushchair, which are both like a large jogger and not equipped for tie-down. You might try a medical equipment rental company like Orlando Medical Rentals, they have some different stroller models. I think the Drive Trotter may be transport-ready as the description mentions crash-tested; I know some Convaid and OttoBock models can be equipped with a transport option but the website doesn't indicate the rentals have it.

As your daughter gets older and outgrows your family stroller, you may want to look into purchasing a special needs stroller if her fatigue is expected to continue. Your medical insurance may help to pay for it. They are quite pricey to purchase.

Enjoy your vacation!

just what I would have posted.

Several models of special needs strollers that used to be rented, including the Liberty and McClaren Major, have been discontinued by their manufacturers. Neither of those were ‘transport ready’ in any case.

I would assume that any special needs strollers you can rent are not equipped for transport. Most people who need to stay in a special needs stroller for transport would be more likely to own their own. Even if they don’t own a wheelchair van, many people have them for bus transport to school/early education programs.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Thanks, everyone. This has been very insightful. We will eventually need to purchase our own special needs stroller for use at home. It would be very difficult to travel with it because I'm not sure I could fit one along with our luggage into our car. For now DD still fits into the stroller (which we also rent as I can't fit a stroller plus luggage in the car. Sounds like it's time for a bigger car). She'll fit into the City Mini for a few years at least I think. And now I have ideas so that I can have a plan in place if DD needs a wheelchair on future trips. This trip was flying by the seat of my pants. I should have been better prepared than I was, honestly. Thanks for all of the replies!

We had a similar problem. I don't need a special needs stroller. I use a scooter. But I didn't want to purchase a scooter and a new car to transport it.

Instead we added a trailer hitch cargo rack and a cargo bad. We bought a scooter that fits in the bag. And everything loads onto the rack. Well, we bought the scooter first.

Maybe something like that will help you in the future.

 

[North of Mouse]

What you were taught was sexism, as women are quite able to stand on the bus too. Not sure why men think it's respectful to say that women can't stand, only the manly man can?

Wow!!!

Everyone I knew was taught this kind of respect!
Sexism??? I think not!

Have seen many people voluntarily give up their seats, but honestly OP, I would never ask any one person to give up their seat. You don't know how badly they themselves might need it.

 

[DisneyOma]

The stroller as a wheelchair tag can’t be used on buses only in the park for the ride ques. The drivers don’t know about them and not trained to except them. If it not a special needs stroller then he’s they have to be folded before boarding. Back door is for ecv wheelchair and special needs strollers and guest with walker canes or other balance issues.

It not that the drivers are being mean or not understanding what you need it that they are not use to those tags. So some tell you to use handicap spot which that might be the best but still have to fold it unless it a special needs stroller. If it a regular one the drivers make but not know you need the back ramp and start boarding before getting to you. If they see ecv or special needs stroller then they know they need to board you first.

The driver when pulling up has to make sure they lined up to curb and they do it safely so they don’t have much time to look and see if the stroller needs back door. Sometimes they miss guest in ecv but having a ecv wheelchair or special needs stroller is a very helpful que to the driver to load you first.

Sorry for bad spelling and grammar and rambling on hope it clear enough if not I help clear it up.

How do the bus drivers tell the regular strollers apart form one that has tie down spots? You've stated that they drive by and don't even see the ECV in the spot, so how can they tell the strollers apart?

one thing to remember when boarding a Disney bus, if you are not ready to give up your seat make sure it is not one of the foldable seats that will be folded if wheelchair/ECV come on later

If the person is disabled and sitting in the folded seats, are they going to have to give up that seat? To be honest, I've never seen a bus load an ECV after it has loaded other guests. If the bus is full to seating, the bus driver skips that bus stop and goes on, calling for another bus to come and start at that stop it just skipped.

Wow!!!

Everyone I knew was taught this kind of respect!
Sexism??? I think not!

Have seen many people voluntarily give up their seats, but honestly OP, I would never ask any one person to give up their seat. You don't know how badly they themselves might need it.

Just because everyone you knew thought it was respect doesn't mean it was. There are lots of things we've been taught by society in the past that were not respectful or right. People are finally pointing it out. I know it makes people feel threatened when traditions and beliefs are questioned. But it's a good thing to question why we do things the way we do, what it means, and what it stands for.

If you read Shakespeare, you'll read some pretty nasty stuff about Jewish people - back then it was considered quite funny and socially acceptable. Think about how blacks were supposed to wait for whites to go by, etc.

Then think about why it is considered respectful to hold open a door based on gender. What are you saying about that gender? Why is it respectful for some reason? Is one gender considered too fragile to open a door themselves? Do they have some defect that keeps them from figuring out how to turn a knob, put on a coat, etc? Now, if you consider doing it based on need, and so you open the door to anyone who seems to need it, or you are first and hold it for those behind you, it's fine. But just based on gender, yes, that is pretty much the meaning of sexism.

 

[disney david]

How do the bus drivers tell the regular strollers apart form one that has tie down spots? You've stated that they drive by and don't even see the ECV in the spot, so how can they tell the strollers apart?



If the person is disabled and sitting in the folded seats, are they going to have to give up that seat? To be honest, I've never seen a bus load an ECV after it has loaded other guests. If the bus is full to seating, the bus driver skips that bus stop and goes on, calling for another bus to come and start at that stop it just skipped.



Just because everyone you knew thought it was respect doesn't mean it was. There are lots of things we've been taught by society in the past that were not respectful or right. People are finally pointing it out. I know it makes people feel threatened when traditions and beliefs are questioned. But it's a good thing to question why we do things the way we do, what it means, and what it stands for.

If you read Shakespeare, you'll read some pretty nasty stuff about Jewish people - back then it was considered quite funny and socially acceptable. Think about how blacks were supposed to wait for whites to go by, etc.

Then think about why it is considered respectful to hold open a door based on gender. What are you saying about that gender? Why is it respectful for some reason? Is one gender considered too fragile to open a door themselves? Do they have some defect that keeps them from figuring out how to turn a knob, put on a coat, etc? Now, if you consider doing it based on need, and so you open the door to anyone who seems to need it, or you are first and hold it for those behind you, it's fine. But just based on gender, yes, that is pretty much the meaning of sexism.

Didn’t mean they can’t tell what an ecv is just meant they very rarely might be paying more attention they don’t crash while pulling in. Also one factor can prevent a driver seeing you is if their a lot of people standing in next to you where the driver has to keep looking depends how fast they are pulling in. Most of the time at resorts that don’t have a dedicated que the driver not only has to see the ecv/wheelchair and special needs strollers they have to determine that you need that bus or another bus going to a different destination. At parks you wait toward where the back door will be so it more noticeable if their people waiting. I should worded it different not to make it sound like they miss ecv on a regular basis which they don’t.




If you look at a non special needs stroller and one that is a special needs you can tell the difference. Don’t meant To offend anyone who uses a special needs strollers.

For the ones that can tie down You have to tell the driver it can be tie down. they will load all special needs strollers through the back door. Unless you don’t want to then you can wait in regular que and fold it and use the front door.

If you board the bus through the back door just let the driver know if it can be tie down. They will tie it down and the kid can stay in the stroller and have a safe fun ride. if they can not be tied down then your option is to board through back door then transfer to a seat if one available. then fold the stroller and keep in front of you and then when you exit bus your exit last and driver will lower ramp.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

How do the bus drivers tell the regular strollers apart form one that has tie down spots? You've stated that they drive by and don't even see the ECV in the spot, so how can they tell the strollers apart?



If the person is disabled and sitting in the folded seats, are they going to have to give up that seat? To be honest, I've never seen a bus load an ECV after it has loaded other guests. If the bus is full to seating, the bus driver skips that bus stop and goes on, calling for another bus to come and start at that stop it just skipped.



Just because everyone you knew thought it was respect doesn't mean it was. There are lots of things we've been taught by society in the past that were not respectful or right. People are finally pointing it out. I know it makes people feel threatened when traditions and beliefs are questioned. But it's a good thing to question why we do things the way we do, what it means, and what it stands for.

If you read Shakespeare, you'll read some pretty nasty stuff about Jewish people - back then it was considered quite funny and socially acceptable. Think about how blacks were supposed to wait for whites to go by, etc.

Then think about why it is considered respectful to hold open a door based on gender. What are you saying about that gender? Why is it respectful for some reason? Is one gender considered too fragile to open a door themselves? Do they have some defect that keeps them from figuring out how to turn a knob, put on a coat, etc? Now, if you consider doing it based on need, and so you open the door to anyone who seems to need it, or you are first and hold it for those behind you, it's fine. But just based on gender, yes, that is pretty much the meaning of sexism.

yes I was on a bus that loaded my ECV with a few people on the bus. lady was upset with driver when she was asked to move so I could get on when she refused to move from aisle he had me load any way and I ran over her toes making the turn at top of ramp. she was not a happy camper at that point. so yes it does happen

 

[gap2368]

yes I was on a bus that loaded my ECV with a few people on the bus. lady was upset with driver when she was asked to move so I could get on when she refused to move from aisle he had me load any way and I ran over her toes making the turn at top of ramp. she was not a happy camper at that point. so yes it does happen

The same thing happened my last time I stayed at sports and got on the bus after an afternoon break the bus when to the other all-stars the second stop someone in an ECV needed to get on there was maybe 6or 7 of us bus driver asked if we could move to the back so that he could load the ECV one person said no and the person in the ECV rain over there feet.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

If the person is disabled and sitting in the folded seats, are they going to have to give up that seat? To be honest, I've never seen a bus load an ECV after it has loaded other guests. If the bus is full to seating, the bus driver skips that bus stop and goes on, calling for another bus to come and start at that stop it just skipped.

I wasn't in the folding seats, but I have been asked to move to accommodate a handicap person. They pulled in, parked their scooter, then the bus driver told me to move, got very irate with me, had the new handicap person sit in my seat.

He was pretty shocked when I had to come from the back of the bus, to unload my scooter.

The guy was generally just clueless.

 

[mamabunny]

Before we (hopefully) get back on topic, can I please make one request of everyone here?

Please, let's *all* try super hard NOT to run over people's toes, or "bump" into them, or in any other way "threaten" someone with a mobility device. I know - sometimes it is unavoidable; the laws of physics clearly indicate that two solid items can't occupy the same space at the same time, and if someone walks right into you while you are seated on an ECV, or if they literally step *right in front of you* while you are moving, then yes - it is truly unavoidable.

But when we are working to get parked on a bus, or when we are trying to make our way through a queue, or any other time when the situation calls for tight maneuvering and potentially asking another person to move or shift to accommodate our passage through an area... if you see that you are going to "have to" run over someone's toes or feet - or that you will indeed bump them...

Please, please, please, stop the ECV, and turn to the Driver/Captain, the nearest Cast Member, any other adult, and ask for assistance. Point out - in a calm, non-confrontational way - that if you continue, there is a very real chance that this person's toes will be run over, and you need help navigating. Minimally, it absolves you of any potential liability if they don't move; ideally, it drives home the concept to the stationary person that if they don't move, it's going to hurt. Additionally, it lets other Guests who are nearby see that you did indeed try to prevent an issue, and you won't automatically be branded as the "bad guy" in their mind.

We have a bad enough reputation around WDW (and in the world in general) without adding to it. Most of us try very hard to help mitigate this by keeping our actions and interactions as positive as possible in the Parks, and in the world in general, but I think it's safe to say that anyone who has spent any amount of time at WDW on an ECV, in a wheelchair, or with any other form of assistive device, has experienced some level of (unwarranted) hostility. This can range from crappy little comments and name calling ("scooter weasel" is probably my all-time favorite) to nasty glares, and sadly, even to physical altercations. Thankfully, overall, during the last several years, I have seen this type of behavior less and less; people are far more accepting and (overall) more acclimated to the many different types of mobility devices in use at WDW.

A long time ago, I learned as a manager that when your customer is happy, you typically don't hear about it - but when they are unhappy, they tell an *average* of at least 10 other people about their bad experience. And each of those 10 other people will spread that story to potentially another 10 people, and so on. In the digital age, information spreads even faster, even further, and to potentially thousands more people - instantly. And because everyone is now capable of being a photojournalist with the smartphone in their pocket, our family always assumes that someone in the vicinity will be shooting pictures and/or video; we are always "on stage". In other words - you never know who is watching, and who may be documenting your behavior, and where it will wind up being displayed on the internet. No one wants to see on Facebook or YouTube that they are the "star" of a viral video about running over someone else's toes with a rental scooter!

And... No, it shouldn't be incumbent upon us to accommodate the rest of the world; And... Yes, we do have rights that are clearly spelled out in the ADA. But we should never use our mobility devices as a weapon or a threat to another person; even if they are refusing to move, we should - we must - take the high road, and assume positive intent. We don't know their story - perhaps they are themselves dealing with an invisible disability and do not have the ability to move at that moment.

And if they are just being a jerk - if they are healthy, able-bodied people who clearly weren't raised better? Let Karma take care of them; it's not our job to be judge and jury, and carry out a punishment by weaponizing a mobility device. That just drags you down to their level, and that's someplace I'm willing to bet you don't want to be.

No one is perfect, least of all me. I hope that we can all agree that by keeping our intentions, actions and reactions as positive as possible, it will benefit all of us.

And now, back to the original topic...

 

[DisneyOma]

yes I was on a bus that loaded my ECV with a few people on the bus. lady was upset with driver when she was asked to move so I could get on when she refused to move from aisle he had me load any way and I ran over her toes making the turn at top of ramp. she was not a happy camper at that point. so yes it does happen

The same thing happened my last time I stayed at sports and got on the bus after an afternoon break the bus when to the other all-stars the second stop someone in an ECV needed to get on there was maybe 6or 7 of us bus driver asked if we could move to the back so that he could load the ECV one person said no and the person in the ECV rain over there feet.

Wow, no wonder there's such animosity with ECVs at WDW. I hope the people who got their toes run over were OK. Perhaps this is why I've never seen them load an ECV after people are on - because it is not safe.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Wow, no wonder there's such animosity with ECVs at WDW. I hope the people who got their toes run over were OK. Perhaps this is why I've never seen them load an ECV after people are on - because it is not safe.

the ones with me were asked by driver to please move for their safety but refused to move and then after having toes run over asked driver why she didn't just pull into space instead of backing in. they were the only 2 on bus besides the driver so there were other seats. some times you have to use your brain

 

[kaytieeldr]

and I ran over her toes making the turn at top of ramp. she was not a happy camper at that point. so yes it does happen

Did she at least move then?

Wow, no wonder there's such animosity with ECVs at WDW.

b
Can't speak for the second incident, but it appears BettyRohrer didn't do it intentionally.

 

[gap2368]

Wow, no wonder there's such animosity with ECVs at WDW. I hope the people who got their toes run over were OK. Perhaps this is why I've never seen them load an ECV after people are on - because it is not safe.

At hotels with more then one bus stop it is not uncomin to have an ECV load while there are others on the bus most of the time the bus is not that full and people are more then willing to move to let someone in a ECV or wheel chair on.

the ones with me were asked by driver to please move for their safety but refused to move and then after having toes run over asked driver why she didn't just pull into space instead of backing in. they were the only 2 on bus besides the driver so there were other seats. some times you have to use your brain

Yep, the driver asked the person if they would not moving so they could load the person in the ECV safely the person said no. The driver did not mean to hit/ run over the person's toes but did.

 

[Betty Rohrer]

Did she at least move then?
b
Can't speak for the second incident, but it appears BettyRohrer didn't do it intentionally.

no she did not try to move her feet, just complained to driver that I should have just pulled in and left ECV. no need to park it or tie it down