Sports: Deflate-Gate

[TAX GUY]

So you believe there's another reasonable explanation of what McNally did? Please elaborate upon a reasonable scenario where McNally was not following an order form TB.

Again, it was no secret TB preferred the game balls to be on the softer side. I knew this, McNally knew this, the NFL knew this (look back at the comments where TB and Peyton Manning lobbied the league to allow balls to be where QB's liked them). Does that mean TB directly told McNally to deflate them to 12.5 PSI or under? Has it been proven he told him to do that? It doesn't matter if McNally stopped in a bathroom or took a public bus to deliver the bag of balls to the field. It still doesn't prove that TB told him to do it.
If someone higher up in the company I worked for had a preference for something and I was the one responsible for providing that, and I continued to give him/her that item, NOT the way they liked it or wanted it, I'd be on the outside looking in. I wouldn't have to hear it directly from him/her either. If others within the company let me know that's what s(he) likes, wouldn't I want to be sure that's how I gave it to them? That's why I have no issues with the team/organization paying the fine and losing picks. Its also why I have a problem with the suspension handed to TB, since there is no proof he had DIRECT involvement.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Has it been proven he told him to do that?

With threshold for 'guilt' in this situation being 'more probable than not' I think its been proven by a mountain of circumstantial evidence. The circumstances of the act of deflation itself, and the behavior of TB once he learns that people are looking into this.

Which of these is 50.1% likely: a game day only employee does this on his own, or TB finds a way to get the message to that employee about how he wanted the balls for the AFC championship?

 

[GrnMtnMan]

PatFan...I see your likes. Can you refute/explain the facts & unanswered questions below? Tax Guy has provided a plausible explanation of the gifts.

Can you explain why McNally took the balls into the bathroom after the refs had checked them? Do you believe McNally, a game day only employee, doctored the #1 QB in the league balls' in the league championship game to his (McNally's that is) own personal specifications? And can you explain why McNally called himself 'The Defaltor' and joked that he'd be going to ESPN with something scandalous? And why McNally received very valuable gifts from TB? And why McNally wasn't brought to the appeal to declare TB did nothing wrong and it was all his idea? And why hasn't McNally sued for wrongful termination from the Pats?

 

[sunshinehighway]

PatFan...I see your likes. Can you refute/explain the facts & unanswered questions below? Tax Guy has provided a plausible explanation of the gifts.

Of course PatFan cannot answer questions about McNally's behavior.
I've noticed you've moved away from the cell phone issue and towards McNally. You seem to be grasping at straws with that.
Since you called the issues with Brady's phone "like a criminal trying to hide his crime", how do you feel now that there's information out that he offered to provide records but they were refused?
I think you were the one that said his punishment was for not cooperating. Do you not think offering to provide the records is cooperating?
Why were they so interested in getting their hands on his phone when they didn't need it to get the information they wanted?

 

[undertheradar]

Of course PatFan cannot answer questions about McNally's behavior.
I've noticed you've moved away from the cell phone issue and towards McNally. You seem to be grasping at straws with that.
Since you called the issues with Brady's phone "like a criminal trying to hide his crime", how do you feel now that there's information out that he offered to provide records but they were refused?
I think you were the one that said his punishment was for not cooperating. Do you not think offering to provide the records is cooperating?
Why were they so interested in getting their hands on his phone when they didn't need it to get the information they wanted?

Right, Brady "fully cooperated."

Brady wanted to dictate terms, according to his FB release. Brady comes across as arrogant and smug. His actions look like someone who is attempting to hide something. If everything was on the up and up, why not defuse the issue at the start?

 

[HeatherC]

Sick of hearing about this and really think it is totally ridiculous. But...my question is if this plays out in Federal Court, will ALL the evidence be brought to the public light? A lot of what you keep hearing is Goodell said this, Brady said that.

And...does a jury decide the case or a judge? Just curious....

 

[GrnMtnMan]

You seem to be grasping at straws with that.

I'm grasping at straws?!?!?!?!?! That's rich!

I brought it back to the essence of the issue. I'm not looking to exonerate TB because he offered* his phone records when the actual phone was requested. If that's even what happened.

*Can you provide the source for this assertion? The final decision from TB's appeal is here. If you could point me to the right place, I'd appreciate it.

The only mention I see of TB providing something related to his cell phone is this section from page 8:

 

[GrnMtnMan]

I found it myself. Page 12.

Did you notice the part that the information "should have been provided long before the hearing"? This just goes to bolster the uncooperative and suspiciously acting arguments.

 

[pat fan]

PatFan...I see your likes. Can you refute/explain the facts & unanswered questions below? Tax Guy has provided a plausible explanation of the gifts.

Not sure what you mean by you see my likes?? But whatever.

I think I previously stated that Brady is known as being fairly generous so I would think it that unusual that he give gifts to those who "work" for him. He gives gifts the the O line etc....as one example. I just don't find him giving "gifts" all that out of character, sorry if that makes me naive.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Not sure what you mean by you see my likes?? But whatever.

You've clicked like on several posts that discuss my questions in this post:

Can you explain why McNally took the balls into the bathroom after the refs had checked them? Do you believe McNally, a game day only employee, doctored the #1 QB in the league balls' in the league championship game to his (McNally's that is) own personal specifications? And can you explain why McNally called himself 'The Defaltor' and joked that he'd be going to ESPN with something scandalous? And why McNally received very valuable gifts from TB? And why McNally wasn't brought to the appeal to declare TB did nothing wrong and it was all his idea? And why hasn't McNally sued for wrongful termination from the Pats?

We keep getting sidetracked in the lack-of-cooperation and AEI-says-balls-weren't-actually-deflated-at-halftime arguments, but I still haven't seen any reasonable explanation for McNally's actions. And I guess I'm asking for folks to declare whether or not they believe McNally acted alone or was directed to do what he did by TB, either directly or through channels.

 

[asta]

I find it rather disingenuous that Brady and his supporters do not see the difference between turning a phone over to be examined vs Brady offering to hand over his version of the phone records. That leaves too many opportunities for tampering - ironic for someone being investigated for tampering.

I am on the sixth version of an iPhone and I have never felt the need to destroy my old phones. Of course, I have nothing to hide.

 

[pat fan]

I find it rather disingenuous that Brady and his supporters do not see the difference between turning a phone over to be examined vs Brady offering to hand over his version of the phone records. That leaves too many opportunities for tampering - ironic for someone being investigated for tampering.

I am on the sixth version of an iPhone and I have never felt the need to destroy my old phones. Of course, I have nothing to hide.

Aren't messages two way? I know when my kids text me what they sent is on my phone. They have all the team phones (which is what McNally used) so those would have any texts from TB on them. Giving a list of all numbers texted/called and such is much more than giving selected messages.

TB says the phone broke and that's why it was replaced, Goodell says it was destroyed. I guess I'd like to know why Goodell thinks it was destroyed. And the phone in question was a Samsung, not an Iphone like it was replaced with.

 

[MickeySP]

I find it rather disingenuous that Brady and his supporters do not see the difference between turning a phone over to be examined vs Brady offering to hand over his version of the phone records. That leaves too many opportunities for tampering - ironic for someone being investigated for tampering.

I am on the sixth version of an iPhone and I have never felt the need to destroy my old phones. Of course, I have nothing to hide.

As I read it he is a union member who was told not to hand over his personal phone. If my union advises me not to set a precedent as it may affect other union members down the line then I don't.

You may have nothing to hide but you do have rights. You also aren't the most successful QB.

I always wipe or destroy any device that holds personal info on me or my job, stupid to leave it exposed.

 

[pat fan]

We keep getting sidetracked in the lack-of-cooperation and AEI-says-balls-weren't-actually-deflated-at-halftime arguments, but I still haven't seen any reasonable explanation for McNally's actions. And I guess I'm asking for folks to declare whether or not they believe McNally acted alone or was directed to do what he did by TB, either directly or through channels.

If there wasn't a sting operation to "catch" the Pats at something, would you care if a ball guy hit the john on the way to the field?

 

[pat fan]

I brought it back to the essence of the issue.

As part of the essence, explain how these are the same? Because while Kraft, Belichick and the whole Patriot organization were cleared of any wrong doing they still got hit in a major way with 2 draft picks etc...Maybe you can offer an explanation instead of always asking us for explanations.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I found it myself. Page 12.
View attachment 112725
Did you notice the part that the information "should have been provided long before the hearing"? This just goes to bolster the uncooperative and suspiciously acting arguments.

Should have been provided means what exactly? Did they ask for those records prand they were withheld? Should Brady have just volunteered them from day one? It's vague.
If they were so important then why didn't they want to info when it was offered.
Brady was being advised by the union on how to handle it and what he should and shouldn't do. Most union members are going to do the same thing.
It seems to me they only way Brady is being " uncooperative is by not wanting to give over his actual phone.
There were other ways for the information to be obtained and he agreed to that. There's no reason to demand the phone.

 

[GAN]

I love the technicalities that yall can come up with. It's keeping this thread interesting.Can you explain why McNally took the balls into the bathroom after the refs had checked them? Do you believe McNally, a game day only employee, doctored the #1 QB in the league balls' in the league championship game to his (McNally's that is) own personal specifications? And can you explain why McNally called himself 'The Defaltor' and joked that he'd be going to ESPN with something scandalous? And why McNally received very valuable gifts from TB? And why McNally wasn't brought to the appeal to declare TB did nothing wrong and it was all his idea? And why hasn't McNally sued for wrongful termination from the Pats?

Why do you keep insisting that the REFS CHECKED THE BALLS ? This is the problem with the whole argument. Sure -I would say it is strange that this "ball boy" would take the balls into a bathroom. However, since the balls were never actually TESTED before he took them there, it is impossible to PROVE he deflated anything. Had the Refs done their JOB, this would be a slam dunk case against the Patriots. Former referees have already come out to say that balls are never scientifically tested -it's a simple spin in the hands, a squeeze, an eyeball to make sure they aren't too beat up ....that's what you get. All this on top of the admitted fact that the initial "leak" regarding the balls was inaccurate.

I'm an admitted biased Pat's fan ....does anyone think that Belichick isn't going to want to win MORE this year than any other season he's coached? Does anyone think that now, Belichick will not test every rule in the book(and NO COACH knows the rules better than himself)? Does anyone think that Belichick will not call out every misstep by opposing teams? You can call the Patriots cheaters, but there is no denying that they are talented ...and VERY well coached. Folks, it's going to be a very interesting season one way or another ....especially for Patriots fans.

See you in February!

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Nobody is answering my questions about McNally's actions. Sound like TB's advisors have gotten to some Disboard members.

 

[GrnMtnMan]

Why do you keep insisting that the REFS CHECKED THE BALLS ? !

We're back to denial that anything happened. Gotcha.

 

[GAN]

Nobody is answering my questions about McNally's actions. Sound like TB's advisors have gotten to some Disboard members.

Please let me know who is Rodgers INFLATOR...

That would be much more useful moving forward