Someday I fear health insurance will be a thing of the past.

[JamesMom]

People once again are living longer if they are the availabity to good long term health care. but the poor have higher incidents of dying from heart attacks, strokes, cancer (poor and minorities have a much higher fatality rate than the wealthy and white) directly related to the access to health care.

I have to somewhat disagree with this statement. The diabetes and obesity epidemics, which are (for the most part) preventable diseases, are what is killing our country both literally and with associates costs. Maintaining a healthy weight and regular physical exercise would solve a lot of our health care problems. Personal responsibility plays a role, too, not just access to health care.

 

[DisneyMomma81]

I have to somewhat disagree with this statement. The diabetes and obesity epidemics, which are (for the most part) preventable diseases, are what is killing our country both literally and with associates costs. Maintaining a healthy weight and regular physical exercise would solve a lot of our health care problems. Personal responsibility plays a role, too, not just access to health care.

I agree - plus cigarettes and alcohol abuse/excess.

 

[fakereadhed]

But the problem is its a symbiotic relationship. You don't get good health care without insurance (or some ability to pay) for it. So to say we have fabulous health care is like saying we've got fabulous steak dinners. It's only fabulous if you can actually eat it. If you do not have the money to pay for it, it's not so fabulous at all.

People once again are living longer if they are the availabity to good long term health care. but the poor have higher incidents of dying from heart attacks, strokes, cancer (poor and minorities have a much higher fatality rate than the wealthy and white) directly related to the access to health care.

So your statement is true if you are one of the "right" people. I'm not a big advocate of universal health care but I am an advocating of getting rid of this myth that anyone, anywhere can walk into a doctors office or hospital and recieve first class health care.
I volunteer every day with the poor people in Camden NJ (murder capital of the US a few years back) almost 90% of the population is well below the povery line nad I can tell you with 100% assurance they do not get great health care.

What were the problems you saw with health care?

The problem with poverty is that more goes into it than just having money for insurance. With poverty comes more crime, increased drug and alcohol risk, unhealthy living conditions, problems accessing care. A national insurance program will NOT address those problems!

Also, I have a child who receives Medicaid and you are right- the care is substandard because we mostly have to rely on doctors for her that take it. The county only has 1 Dr that sees children(overseen by State and Federal Govt) and they rescheduled her visit to another day and time, without asking me, to a time when my DS needs to be picked up for school. I called to reschedule and they said it would be 6 months. He is overbooked. Don't want to discuss the circumstances, but it was a serious issue. So, I kept the appointment. Luckily, I have the means to pay $8 for afterschool care for him and had transportation to get there since I own a car. I can see how it would not work if I was less fortunate. Bottom line is- you are a number, get in line, they do not care when you are dealing with the govt. All of you that want this govt managed care be careful what you wish for.

 

[thomas998]

We will move to a country enlightened enough to have universal single payer insurance. As it is with my DH's appendicitis this year, we had to take out a personal loan to pay the ~$4500 out-of-pocket bills that our "good" insurance (that we also pay an arm and a leg for) didn't cover.

What really ticks me off is that I've heard that if we didn't have insurance at all, we probably could have negotiated the full bills down to about what we paid out-of-pocket anyway...so what is the sense in us continuing to pay monthly for the darned insurance?!

ETA: oh yeah, and we are STILL working on the personal loan and other medical bills from DD's (non C-section, the actual term was filtered out, lol) birth almost 3 years ago...and it's not like she was super sick or premature or anything. She was in the NICU for 4 nights for a bit of fluid in her lungs, but otherwise just fine. It should not cost an insured family $7,000 out-of-pocket to have a minimally sick baby.

You probably could have... I had to have a CT scan the same as a neighbor that had no insurance... was even done at the exact same place... the only difference was I had insurance and they didn't... And guess what... I actually ended up having to pay a few dollars more out of pocket than they did for the whole thing... seems the medical center doing the tests gives substantial discounts to people with no insurance that pay up front... It makes me wonder what the point of insurance is if I'm going to be paying more because I have it.

Frankly it also tells me that the medical center could be charging that same low price they did the neighbors scan for to everyone that needs a scan... I know they weren't doing it out of the kindness of their heart because they are a for profit testing center.

Maybe if the government would simply ban all insurance we would all be better off... well everyone except the doctors and hospitals... because if we didn't have any insurance the doctors and hospitals would have to charge prices that people could afford or have zero patients... sure a heart surgeon might love charging $40,000 for half a days work... but when he realizes that the number of people needing his services and having $40,000 is going to be less than a patient a year he will have to start lowering his prices or give up the Mercedes.

 

[eliza61]

I have to somewhat disagree with this statement. The diabetes and obesity epidemics, which are (for the most part) preventable diseases, are what is killing our country both literally and with associates costs. Maintaining a healthy weight and regular physical exercise would solve a lot of our health care problems. Personal responsibility plays a role, too, not just access to health care.

But once again James, all of it is symbiotic. It's not one or another. Many times for those without access to health care, you also don't have access to healthy eating or the information on preventable diseases. Most poor folks who have diabetes, you know when they get to the doctor to discuss ways to treat or prevent it? when they head to the ER due to an episode.


I totally, 100% agree that obesity is a growing epidemic, I applaud all the tv personalities and others who are trying to bring attention to the problem but once again you can have a great sense of personal responsibility and when you get sick with some thing "minor" you still can't afford to see a doctor when it's least expensive, so you wait until your something "minor" becomes "major" and then you use the ER (which is usually 100X's as expensive) as a doctor visit.

 

[eliza61]

What were the problems you saw with health care?for.

Very simple.

If you have money (or lets say the ability to pay) you get it. if you don't have the ability you basically don't or you get care at 3rd world status.

Any time you have a "for profit" system, the system is naturally skewed to those who can pay.

And since we have no way to seperate health care from the ability to pay, as I said previously it's symbiotic. ONe does not exist without the other.

I never said I wanted gov't health care. I said I wanted the myth of "we have the greatest health care" to be recognized as just that. a myth. It is only the greatest to those with access to it. for those of us without access its pretty lousy.

 

[Judyat]

Bottom line - Everyone needs and deserves affordable healthcare. Healthcare that doesn't discriminate against pre-existing conditions and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

 

[DisneyMomma81]

Very simple.

If you have money (or lets say the ability to pay) you get it. if you don't have the ability you basically don't or you get care at 3rd world status.

Never mind.

 

[wish*i*was*in*the*vi]

Have you ever seen what insurance companies pay the doctors? Believe me, that $175 that you were billed as a self-paying patient was still higher than what the insurance company actually paid the provider.

My primary charges $175 for a routine physical. I have a $30 co-pay which I pay before I even see my doctor (or more likely the nurse practitioner). The doctor then submits a claim to the insurance company and he gets....nothing more than the $30 co-pay that I gave him. The insurance company pays him nothing.

Wow, that's horrible. I got the statement for our doctor's office yesterday. My son's back to school physical was $457. We had to pay the $20 co-pay, and another $6.86 of it...and yes they did negotiate it down and not pay her the full amount but the discount was about $160.

 

[crisi]

We're either going to pay much more in taxes for universal health care (single payer system), or we're going continue to see our private health insurance premiums skyrocket. To me it's starting to feel like six or a half a dozen.

And there ARE inherent efficiencies in a single payer program. A LOT less variation in claims processing. A lot less profit in the insurance industry. We will pay more to cover more people, but each person covered will cost less. Insurance companies can sell supplemental insurance for those that don't want to be 'rationed.'

 

[leahjade]

We will move to a country enlightened enough to have universal single payer insurance.

Go right ahead then let us know in a few years how it worked out for you. My daughter works at a premier health care facility here in the US and sees wealthy people coming here from Europe (those wonderful universal health care countries that you crave) every day to get the state of the art treatment they can't get with their "free" healthcare.

 

[fakereadhed]

And there ARE inherent efficiencies in a single payer program. A LOT less variation in claims processing. A lot less profit in the insurance industry. We will pay more to cover more people, but each person covered will cost less. Insurance companies can sell supplemental insurance for those that don't want to be 'rationed.'

So again, disparity in health care. Better care only if you can afford more coverage.

The claims processing by the federal government will not be simplified! I have experience with them changing my DDs coverage, canceling it, reinstating it, canceling it again...about every month or so. I've been told the different departments don't have access to the same information. How much does it cost to send those notices, new ID cards, and brochures? All to clear things up and restart the process again. I can't refill her meds when this happens and good luck talking to an actual person. They have much too busy a caseload to even return a phone call.

I hear people complain because it took too long in the ER. That will be nothing compared to the whole US(a whole lot larger than any European country)being managed by the govt. What if there's a glitch in the system? You will not only be waiting to see a dr, you will be waiting for someone to answer how to fix your paperwork problems. Indefinitely.

 

[momejay]

I had no health insurance for years. I am a single mom, 2 of my children have autism and are on special diets. Treatments for autism are generally uncovered anyway so why pay for insurance? Uncovered medical care easily costs me $12,000 per year per autistic child.
If our healthcare system worked we wouldn't be charged $12 a box for a mucus disposal system (AKA tissues). If vaccinations worked we wouldn't get sick or need boosters and no one would be harmed by them. Case in point...my niece needed a booster for medical school...she had a chicken pox vaccine. She came home for the holidays and gave my Dad shingles and smaller cousins the chicken pox. (The cousins had been vaccinated) She ended up with a mild case of chicken pox herself and couldn't return to school.
I think we should all start looking at our diet, seeing nutritionists, & go back to basics. Eventually, I think, we will all be able to consult the internet or a book and diagnose ourselves. There's your chicken soup for the day!

 

[RockAndRollBallerina]

It already has become a thing of the past for some people because it's gotten way too expensive. The costs of food and living have gone up, and for some people who were able to afford health insurance in the past now cant as a result. Some of these people are also the same people who don't qualify for Medicaid or other like programs because they are said to have, or make too much money.

 

[PatriciaH]

In some cities (like NYC) taxes are on a par with Europe. They pay city as well as state and federal tax and sales tax is astronomical. So is property tax. Plus they are paying through the nose for insurance. And schooling. And child care. And many other things Europeans get for their taxes. We had to move last year from a place we loved because DH got a good job offer with excellent benefits. We do not really like where we live but we will stay until one of finds a good job with benefits where we want to be. That stinks. I got my Irish citizenship (my grandmother was born there) just in case we need to move. We can live, work and own property/land in any EU country now. It is a duel citizenship with the US.

 

[Colleen27]

Yeah, we weigh the options every year. Since DH started his business we've paid out about $25000 in health insurance premiums for a policy that has not paid one red cent towards any medical bill on our behalf. Our deductible is high enough that barring a major medical issue it never will, and for that we're paying more than 10% of our annual household income. For it to pay out, we'd be spending 25% of our income on OOP medical between the premiums and deductible. Every year when we get the notice of the premium increase we discuss whether it is time to drop the plan and bank the premiums instead; it is a gamble but given the amount of money we've essentially thrown away on insurance over the years and the fact that our premiums go up about 20% a year forcing us to cut back more each year to cover it, it is tempting.

 

[eliza61]

We're either going to pay much more in taxes for universal health care (single payer system), or we're going continue to see our private health insurance premiums skyrocket. To me it's starting to feel like six or a half a dozen.

this is just my personal opinion.

I think one of the problems dvc, is that we keep thinking in terms of "one or the other" when I think thet best solution may be a muti prong approach combining a little bit of this and that.

1) maybe not total universal care, but maybe a system where some basic treatment is universal. stuff like well doctor visits, common testing like gyn. stuff that if we get to people early and often don't blow into big expensive problems

2) the highest cost is usually end of life care. let's seriously start looking at the cost and effects without scare tatics like "cutting grandma's life support".

3) honestly look at the cost of litigation, are doctors more worried about lawsuits than their practice. Once again honestly investigate it without the scare tatics about "evil" incompentant doctors running around killing people.

4) Investigate other programs for the poor. for example a new program in one local hospital is a clinic where good doctors volunteer like doctors without borders. In exchange they get a lot of their med school tuition forgiven.

 

[Svhadden]

I had no health insurance for years. I am a single mom, 2 of my children have autism and are on special diets. Treatments for autism are generally uncovered anyway so why pay for insurance? Uncovered medical care easily costs me $12,000 per year per autistic child.
If our healthcare system worked we wouldn't be charged $12 a box for a mucus disposal system (AKA tissues). If vaccinations worked we wouldn't get sick or need boosters and no one would be harmed by them. Case in point...my niece needed a booster for medical school...she had a chicken pox vaccine. She came home for the holidays and gave my Dad shingles and smaller cousins the chicken pox. (The cousins had been vaccinated) She ended up with a mild case of chicken pox herself and couldn't return to school.
I think we should all start looking at our diet, seeing nutritionists, & go back to basics. Eventually, I think, we will all be able to consult the internet or a book and diagnose ourselves. There's your chicken soup for the day!

Yes yes yes and yes! Our family carries major medical, and that's it. We are basically self-insured...why pay $800+/month and then be told by the company (even the "good" ones) what they will and won't cover, etc? We save that money and basically have a large savings acct to cover minor incidents and dr visits. The major medical kicks in for any big incident or emergency.

We see no point in paying a premium every month because we are very rare consumers of conventional medicine. We don't vaccinate our kids, and don't take medication. At all. The only way you'll get medicine into either us or our children is if it's a life-saving emergency. Otherwise, no thanks. There's most likely a natural, non-chemical way to address the condition.

We are all, praise the Lord, very healthy with no medical conditions. But that's by choice and action, not by chance. Both my and my husbands immediate families are almost all overweight, and we don't want to repeat that in our family. We exercise regularly (all of us...even our 5 yr old is in karate 3 times/week), eat a very healthy diet (gluten free, dairy free, very little meat, tons of raw organic fresh fruits/veggies from our own garden, no soft drinks, very little refined sugar, etc). Food is either medicine or poison, but not neutral. I'd rather be my own physician on a day-to-day basis, and only rely on conventional allopathic medicine in genuine emergencies.

 

[thomas998]

Bottom line - Everyone needs and deserves affordable healthcare. Healthcare that doesn't discriminate against pre-existing conditions and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

As for pre-existing conditions... if I go buy a car from a junk yard that was in a wreck would it be okay with you to then go buy car insurance and as soon as I get it tell the insurance company they need to fix my car? That is what you are talking about with pre-existing conditions... if the insurance company did fix my car then they would just raise the insurance premiums on everyone... would that really be a smart idea? In the end, life isn't always fair... some people are born with problems and when that happens it might be sad for you... but it really is the responsibility of the parents that decided to have the kid... not mine, not yours...

As for people needing and deserving affordable health care, it would be nice if everyone could have affordable health care... BUT People do not NEED or DESERVE affordable healthcare, it might make them happier, it might make them live longer... but people can exist without it healthcare... you are't born with an inalienable right to a doctor.

 

[crisi]

So again, disparity in health care. Better care only if you can afford more coverage.

The claims processing by the federal government will not be simplified! I have experience with them changing my DDs coverage, canceling it, reinstating it, canceling it again...about every month or so. I've been told the different departments don't have access to the same information. How much does it cost to send those notices, new ID cards, and brochures? All to clear things up and restart the process again. I can't refill her meds when this happens and good luck talking to an actual person. They have much too busy a caseload to even return a phone call.

I hear people complain because it took too long in the ER. That will be nothing compared to the whole US(a whole lot larger than any European country)being managed by the govt. What if there's a glitch in the system? You will not only be waiting to see a dr, you will be waiting for someone to answer how to fix your paperwork problems. Indefinitely.

Sure there will be disparity in health care, but there will be a minimum level that is not "go to the ER if you are dying" - which is what we have no.

There will ALWAYS be disparity - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make an effort to meet everyone's basic needs.

I don't see how waiting for the U.S. government to fix my paperwork problems is any different than my four year battle with United Health Care because I'd pay my co-pay at the doctors office - and then UHC would bill me for it. It only lasted four years because it was no longer worth my time.