Sold today- Cabins at Fort Wilderness resale contract

[Sandisw]

Us DVC-savvy people like to assume that direct purchasers are total idiots, but credit where it's due, those idiots have *not* been buying into The Cabins. The sales numbers have been a trickle ever since they went on sale, and I don't see how the status quo is considered viable.

Mentioning the Riviera is worthwhile. People tend to like that property better, its maintenance fees are lower, and it's still taking 5+ years to sell out. This reinforces that direct purchasers are actually diligent, and wary of resale restrictions.

Edit: I use the word "idiot" in jest (I'm DVC-Y myself)

The thing is that the cabins are not selling because it’s not a product that buyers want.

I don’t think restrictions are making a difference. Restrictions certainly could give some buyers pause but many, even here on the DIS, take a different approach when it comes to resale value.

We are indifferent because we own where we want to be. If I had to sell my RIV contracts tomorrow I’d have more than gotten value out of them.

Once there are more resorts restricted, it will start being the norm.

Assuming LSL has them, that will put three WDW resorts out of reach to resale buyers.

 

[Patmcpsu]

The thing is that the cabins are not selling because it’s not a product that buyers want.

I don’t think restrictions are making a difference. Restrictions certainly could give some buyers pause but many, even here on the DIS, take a different approach when it comes to resale value.

We are indifferent because we own where we want to be. If I had to sell my RIV contracts tomorrow I’d have more than gotten value out of them.

Once there are more resorts restricted, it will start being the norm.

Assuming LSL has them, that will put three WDW resorts out of reach to resale buyers.

Yes there are multiple factors that go into a direct buyer's mind, with the resort itself being a primary one. But I disagree with the dogma that direct buyers are total idiots who "don't know or care about the resale market and the associated capital loss that comes with restrictions".

Resale restrictions are clearly hurting direct sales. Aside from Riviera's lofty point chart, it has everything else going for it. There is a pretty obvious reason why it still hasn't sold out after 5+ years.

But my main point is to give direct buyers an iota of respect. I would not rely on CFW selling due to buyer ignorance.

 

[SugarSweetLee]

I feel bad for whoever was caught in a position of having to sell their Cabins contract this soon.

 

[Genie+]

It’s really hard to make the financials work with the cabins. It’s so niche with expensive dues. It might be an attractive option for a party of 6 to avoid the point usage of 2BR, until they spend a rainy resort day cooped up together. If not divorce, maybe that prompted an early exit at $135pp on the resale market!

If the plan isn’t doing an annual cabin trip, this contract is hard to justify because the dues make trading out so painful. Example - buying 200pts CFW or Poly and both decide to book BLT next year. Cabins pay an extra $800 dues toward that trip with pretty much zero difference than spending much more money. The more years Cabins trade out the less sense it makes to own. If unsure about committing to CabinFW stays for the next ~50 years, those dues are spooky.

This makes me think either LSL has a very high chance of joining CFW somehow, or DVC knows some other future detail we don’t. At the current sales pace it’ll take the entire 50yr contract to sell out. There’s got to be something else. And whatever it ends up being, will it make this person who bought resale at $135pp happier down the line?

 

[DanCali]

Us DVC-savvy people like to assume that direct purchasers are total idiots, but credit where it's due, those idiots have *not* been buying into The Cabins. The sales numbers have been a trickle ever since they went on sale, and I don't see how the status quo is considered viable.

Mentioning the Riviera is worthwhile. People tend to like that property better, its maintenance fees are lower, and it's still taking 5+ years to sell out. This reinforces that direct purchasers are actually diligent, and wary of resale restrictions.

Edit: I use the word "idiot" in jest (I'm DVC-Y myself)

Timeshare sales rely primarily on uninformed buyers. Which is why you get 7-10 days by law to back out.

There can be plenty of reasons unrelated to restrictions why people are not buying the cabins. In fact, with Riviera vs Cabins (both restricted) it probably comes down more to location and dues.

Being aware of the resale restrictions is one thing. Most direct buyers should be aware of them because it's in the contract. They also believe the guide who is telling them that the restrictions don't apply to them (which is true true), and many think they will never sell. But I doubt that most direct buyers are familiar with the resale market, or that they fully understand what the restrictions will do to resale prices over time.

Here's a 2021 post suggesting Riviera was selling at similar prices to CCV at the time. How does that look 4 years later? CCV is about 20% higher than RIV now... ($20-$25/pt difference) and over time it is only likely to get worse as RIV sells out and sellers outnumber interested resale buyers at current prices.

Post in thread 'Riviera Resale Values'

Mar 15, 2021

^ yeah, but look at the impact that resale restrictions are having on Riviera sales. I know a lot of people who love the hotel, but are staying clear because of a limited exit strategy. I feel like they are only hurting themselves as the pile on restrictions.

I think you are overestimating the impact the restrictions are having on Riviera sales. Owners that post on disboards are in the minority. Most people don't care because they think they will never sell. The impact of the restrictions on resale value has also been overblown, Riviera is selling at a similar price as CCV.

• CmdrThor

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[Patmcpsu]

It just occurred to me that the math for CFW is pretty simple since there's only one room type, and resale buyers are forced to stay there.

At its lowest (September), it's 15 points during the week. At it's highest (April & holidays) it's 36 points per night on the weekend. With maintenance fees at $12.06 per point, this equates to rooms costing anywhere from $180 to $434 per night. The average night looks to be about 22 points ($265).

I personally wouldn't pay $20k ($135/pt x 150 points) for this privilege, especially when its resale value hasn't yet been established.

 

[Sandisw]

Yes there are multiple factors that go into a direct buyer's mind, with the resort itself being a primary one. But I disagree with the dogma that direct buyers are total idiots who "don't know or care about the resale market and the associated capital loss that comes with restrictions".

Resale restrictions are clearly hurting direct sales. Aside from Riviera's lofty point chart, it has everything else going for it. There is a pretty obvious reason why it still hasn't sold out after 5+ years.

But my main point is to give direct buyers an iota of respect. I would not rely on CFW selling due to buyer ignorance.

They not idiots at all because I don’t consider those of us who buy direct idiots. I will only buy direct expect RiV resale.

The fact is that the bulk of direct buyers are not well versed that a resale market exists or that the analysis about resale values done here is typical.

In terms of resale restrictions and sales? Apparently DVD is happy with things because they have the power to remove them and have not.

They have not gone to extremes to sell out the restricted resorts so i contend they are comfortable with how things are going.

My own take for resale value? I think it’s a mistake to ever consider it as part of the equation because there are too many things that can influence it.

We went in considering it a sunk cost which is why we bought RIV when we fell in love with with. Restrictions were simply not a big deal.

 

[VGCgroupie]

The thing is that the cabins are not selling because it’s not a product that buyers want.

I don’t think restrictions are making a difference. Restrictions certainly could give some buyers pause but many, even here on the DIS, take a different approach when it comes to resale value.

We are indifferent because we own where we want to be. If I had to sell my RIV contracts tomorrow I’d have more than gotten value out of them.

Once there are more resorts restricted, it will start being the norm.

Assuming LSL has them, that will put three WDW resorts out of reach to resale buyers.

I agree it's not the restrictions. No W/D is a big deal. The experience there is way different than staying at many of the other DVC resorts. Most importantly the MF are way too high, if they were less more would buy.

 

[Tumnus]

Yes there are multiple factors that go into a direct buyer's mind, with the resort itself being a primary one. But I disagree with the dogma that direct buyers are total idiots who "don't know or care about the resale market and the associated capital loss that comes with restrictions".

Resale restrictions are clearly hurting direct sales. Aside from Riviera's lofty point chart, it has everything else going for it. There is a pretty obvious reason why it still hasn't sold out after 5+ years.

But my main point is to give direct buyers an iota of respect. I would not rely on CFW selling due to buyer ignorance.

If you are implying resale restrictions are the 'obvious reason' it hasn't sold out, I think you might want to check the state of the world in 2020-2021 for the much more obvious reason it has not sold out. Peak initial buying time for Riv came in at a pretty unique time in the world.

 

[Patmcpsu]

If you are implying resale restrictions are the 'obvious reason' it hasn't sold out, I think you might want to check the state of the world in 2020-2021 for the much more obvious reason it has not sold out. Peak initial buying time for Riv came in at a pretty unique time in the world.

I actually think Riviera was for sale during the most advantageous time ever. Yes it lost a year due to Covid, but it also had multiple years of stimmy checks, historically low interest rates, and revenge travel.

 

[Tumnus]

I actually think Riviera was for sale during the most advantageous time ever. Yes it lost a year due to Covid, but it also had multiple years of stimmy checks, historically low interest rates, and revenge travel.

Most DVC sales start from in the park contact - the attendance of Magic Kingdom was around 20.5 to 21 million a year from 2015 through 2019. 2020 was 6.9 million, 2021 was 12.7 million, and 2022 and 2023 were between 17 and 18 million. DVC direct sales were over 2 million points in 2017 - 2019, 1.1 mil in 2020, 1.4 mil in 2021, and back to over 2 mil in 2022.

It was most definitively not a good time to be selling DVC for Disney and the only reason Riv is not sold out.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I agree it's not the restrictions. No W/D is a big deal. The experience there is way different than staying at many of the other DVC resorts. Most importantly the MF are way too high, if they were less more would buy.

We stayed at the cabins many years ago. Without a golf cart, it is pretty hard to get around. We did rent a golf cart, along with the rental car. I would have to add in the golf cart to the daily "cost". I agree the W/D is a big deal.

I would definitely stay for a Sun-Thurs using our direct points if the opportunity arose, especially in September. The cost of the golf cart would be fine in that case.

Buying direct or resale, not on your life!

 

[VGCgroupie]

We stayed at the cabins many years ago. Without a golf cart, it is pretty hard to get around. We did rent a golf cart, along with the rental car. I would have to add in the golf cart to the daily "cost". I agree the W/D is a big deal.

I would definitely stay for a Sun-Thurs using our direct points if the opportunity arose, especially in September. The cost of the golf cart would be fine in that case.

Buying direct or resale, not on your life!

Agree under 7 month booking or bust for me.

I could see making a case for owning there if you always go for Halloween and Christmas.. but even then those MF are a hard sell.

 

[Brian Noble]

Maybe not. The point chart is low enough that the total cost-per-stay can be pretty reasonable if the sales price is right. It certainly wouldn't be for everyone, but there is a set of folks for whom that'd be a fantastic annual vacation.

 

[dvc lover 1970]

Cabins have a double wammy - niche population and resale restrictions. I love riv but did not buy due to restrictions. If riv does a final sale push similar to vgf a couple years ago, i would probably buy then at that price point. Otherwise resale is out as i dont want restricted points. Curious to see if those with restricted points get locked out of their resort. Will there be some sort of law suit similar to rci many years ago when owners were having difficulty making reservations?

 

[Mouseforward]

I agree it's not the restrictions. No W/D is a big deal. The experience there is way different than staying at many of the other DVC resorts. Most importantly the MF are way too high, if they were less more would buy.

The annoying thing is there’s that extra sink, which is unnecessary, that could have been a washer dryer. I would guess that it’s plumbing however, my plumber tells me the front loading small stacked ones just don’t put out the water that would make a difference. He told me bathing a child in the bathtub puts out like five times in the water.

It does give the cabin a moderate feel, that along with the no towel service at the pool however, I’ve heard that they’re starting towel service right now. It’s just if you forget, they’ll give you one with the DVC ID.

 

[VGCgroupie]

The annoying thing is there’s that extra sink, which is unnecessary, that could have been a washer dryer. I would guess that it’s plumbing however, my plumber tells me the front loading small stacked ones just don’t put out the water that would make a difference. He told me bathing a child in the bathtub puts out like five times in the water.

It does give the cabin a moderate feel, that along with the no towel service at the pool however, I’ve heard that they’re starting towel service right now. It’s just if you forget, they’ll give you one with the DVC ID.

I heard towel service is now being offered, which is a huge plus. When we went in the cabin we immediately saw where you would think a washer/dryer would fit perfectly. The whole layout is not great, like a poorly designed tiny home

 

[Brianstl]

I think the problems for the cabins is DVC is considered a premium product at a premium price and the people that love Fort Wilderness don’t considered it a premium resort. It is one of the reasons they love it. Kind of hard to change 50+ years of experiences and expectations of your customers.

 

[Mouseforward]

I heard towel service is now being offered, which is a huge plus. When we went in the cabin we immediately saw where you would think a washer/dryer would fit perfectly. The whole layout is not great, like a poorly designed tiny home

I would’ve preferred they left the design like the old ones. Bedroom then bathroom and kitchen and the living room at the end.

But they could also take the bunkbed out of the bedroom, and utilize the high ceiling, they added in the new cabins to put a ladder loft above the kitchen. Most tiny homes have that loft style sleeping for children.

The washer and dryer could’ve been put in the kitchen like they do in Europe.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I would’ve preferred they left the design like the old ones. Bedroom then bathroom and kitchen and the living room at the end.

But they could also take the bunkbed out of the bedroom, and utilize the high ceiling, they added in the new cabins to put a ladder loft above the kitchen. Most tiny homes have that loft style sleeping for children.

The washer and dryer could’ve been put in the kitchen like they do in Europe.

Yeah leaving the bedroom and walking through the secondary sleeping area to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night doesn’t seem fun. I could fully see myself stubbing my toe or tripping over something since the space gets so much smaller with the bed down.