So what is going on with Bonnett Creek?

[Tigfanjeff]

Originally posted by Horace Horsecollar
Mr. Eisner could just as easily have picked and different architect and championed a design that harmonized with the other Crescent Lake resorts and didn't visually intrude on World Showcase. (That said, I actually like the Swan and Dolphin.) I'm sorry that I'm off topic here.

Actually the S&D were well before the other resorts were in place. And you're not off topic. The topic just drifted.

As far as RCID and BC are concerened, Disney just needs to make sure however it exists, it maintains control. Theoretically, Disney could annex BC into RCID if it wanted to and probably still maintain the control it seeks. The laws on Community Improvement Districts in Florida are very very interesting. That said, Disney probably had very little to say on Bonnett Creek, even if it was part of RCID. It would be very difficult to state that any architectural style wasn't acceptable when you compare it to whats already on property. And that is generally the standard of law in these cases.

 

[CarolA]

To get even FURTHER off topic.
I seem to recall that the original contract allowed for the Swan/Dolphin developer to develop ALL new hotels on Disney property. Eisner did well to get it changed. Eisner is an architecture buff and did not want cookie cutter hotels and regardless of what you think of them swan/dolphin are not cookie cutter!

(And on a further note who was one of the big movers/shakers when the contract with the developer was signed giving them all future rights?? Think about it.... see save disney.)

 

[Tigfanjeff]

Originally posted by CarolA
To get even FURTHER off topic.
I seem to recall that the original contract allowed for the Swan/Dolphin developer to develop ALL new hotels on Disney property. Eisner did well to get it changed. Eisner is an architecture buff and did not want cookie cutter hotels and regardless of what you think of them swan/dolphin are not cookie cutter!

(And on a further note who was one of the big movers/shakers when the contract with the developer was signed giving them all future rights?? Think about it.... see save disney.)

Actually it was Card Walker that signed the agreement with Tishman. Remember in 1982 the company's outlook looked bleak. Epcot wasn't paying off as expected (Its attendance didn't really kick up to expected levels for a year or two), the company was nearly broke from building epcot and feature films hadn't produced anything of consequence for years. If Disney was going to build hotel rooms, for the near term at least it didn't look like they'd be doing it.

It was the same state of the company that led Roy to lead his shareholder revolt that installed Eisner and (and more importantly as it has now become clear) Frank Wells.

The Swan and Dolphin were originally to be bulit even closer to the International Gateway, probably even spanning the service road. I don't have all the details, but I know it spent quite a while in litigation, and Disney really walked away with more then could ever be expected.

I doubt that the agreement gave them all rights to future disney resorts, but it probably did give them all rights to build the resorts. I could be wrong though.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Tigfanjeff
Actually the S&D were well before the other resorts were in place.

Actually, Disney's Yacht Club Resort, Disney's Beach Club Resort, the Walt Disney World Swan, and the Walt Disney World Dolphin were all under construction at the same time, and they all opened in 1990. Although Disney's Boardwalk Inn and Disney's Boardwalk Villas did not open until 1996, a Boardwalk-themed hotel and entertainment complex was already on the master plan at that time.

Originally posted by Tigfanjeff
As far as RCID and BC are concerened, Disney just needs to make sure however it exists, it maintains control. Theoretically, Disney could annex BC into RCID if it wanted to and probably still maintain the control it seeks.

The whole point is that Disney would not want to annex the Bonnet Creek Resort or any other development which they do not control. Consider that if the Bonnet Creek Resort were annexed to the RCID, then Bonnet Creek management could hand pick some people to be permanent residents within the Bonnet Creek Resort and thus have voting rights in the RCID. (That's how Disney does it; Disney has a few dozen hand-picked permanent residents living on WDW property.)

 

[mickeysaver]

You should have heard the time share pitch we got a while back in Nashville in relation to what we would be able to do at WDW, if we bought a time share through Fairfield. Check out this thread to read more. I wouldn't buy a Fairfield timeshare if my life depended on it. Maggie

 

[disneycm25]

I stayed at the Swan in late summer of 1990 and the Yacht and Beach Club were still under construction. I don't think they opened until the following year.

 

[Tigfanjeff]

Originally posted by Horace Horsecollar
Actually, Disney's Yacht Club Resort, Disney's Beach Club Resort, the Walt Disney World Swan, and the Walt Disney World Dolphin were all under construction at the same time, and they all opened in 1990. Although Disney's Boardwalk Inn and Disney's Boardwalk Villas did not open until 1996, a Boardwalk-themed hotel and entertainment complex was already on the master plan at that time.

The whole point is that Disney would not want to annex the Bonnet Creek Resort or any other development which they do not control. Consider that if the Bonnet Creek Resort were annexed to the RCID, then Bonnet Creek management could hand pick some people to be permanent residents within the Bonnet Creek Resort and thus have voting rights in the RCID. (That's how Disney does it; Disney has a few dozen hand-picked permanent residents living on WDW property.)

I wasn't referring to actual build date. I was referring to the conception dates. If anything was to completely match back there, it would have had to be Disney matching the already approved S&D stuff. All opened in 1990, but the S&D had been on the drawing board as early as 1983.

And I've actually met both the mayor of Lake Buena Vista (well, last years mayor) and several of the residents of Bay Lake (which is unincorporated). LBV is definitely the better place to live and its an amazing deal. Maybe in 35 years with the company I could get the offer too. And voting rights actually depend on how the Improvement district is set up, but you are right, there isn't any motivation for Disney to make the land part of RCID.

 

[Tigfanjeff]

Originally posted by disneycm25
I stayed at the Swan in late summer of 1990 and the Yacht and Beach Club were still under construction. I don't think they opened until the following year.

Nope, all opened officially in 1990.

 

[disneycrazed139]

Thanks for the pictures, Katie. BTW--I thought picture #12 had quite a striking resemblance to the Turf Club at SSR!

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by CarolA
I seem to recall that the original contract allowed for the Swan/Dolphin developer to develop ALL new hotels on Disney property. Eisner did well to get it changed.

I believe you're recalling two different episodes in Disney history.

1. Ray Watson, the Chairman of Disney prior to Eisner, made a deal with Tishman Realty & Construction Co., Inc. for Tishman to build two new hotels on WDW land near Epcot. When Eisner became Chairmen, he tried to cancel the deal, leading Tishman to threaten a lawsuit. The two companies came to an agreement, with the results being the Swan and Dolphin (which are still Tishman Hotels today).
   
2. A little over 20 years ago, Disney was in real danger of being split up. Because of Disney's low stock price and underperforming assets, Disney's parts were considered to be worth more than the whole. Under such a plan, the movie library would have been sold off; the studio would probably have been closed; the parks would have stayed open but not expanded; and all existing Disney hotels (and the right to build future hotels) would have been sold off to a lodging company such as Marriott. Fortunately, that was stopped -- but it wasn't Eisner who stopped it. Eisner and Wells were brought on afterwards.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by Tigfanjeff
I wasn't referring to actual build date. I was referring to the conception dates. If anything was to completely match back there, it would have had to be Disney matching the already approved S&D stuff. All opened in 1990, but the S&D had been on the drawing board as early as 1983.

Yes. I agree that Tishman had plans drawn up several years before Robert A.M. Stern was brought in to design the Yacht and Beach Clubs (and then the Boardwalk Inn and Villas).

The point I was making earlier in this thread was that under the revised agreement with Tishman, Disney's Michael Eisner was allowed to pick the architect -- and he picked Michael Graves. Somewhere I read that Graves drew up several concepts, and that Eisner picked the wildest design. That's why we have the Swan and Dolphin today.

I'm sure that the Swan and Dolphin are big improvements over whatever Tishman was previously planning. (Yes, the Swan and Dolphin are not boring.) However, if Eisner had delegated to the Imagineers who were developing the master plan for the Epcot Resorts, I doubt we would have the Swan and Dolphin today. In their place, we'd probably have two more early 20th century themed resorts (owned by Tishman).