So the dog's oncologist said...what would you do?

[Jennasis]

We took our greyhound to the oncologist to try to get a second opinion/confirmation of the diagnosis our home vet made a few weeks ago. Our dog developed a tumor in her mouth that makes her look like she has the mumps on her left jaw. Our home vet said it was either amelanotic melanoma or a sarcoid and was likely aggressive and may have already metastasized to her lungs and lymph nodes...maybe 6+ months to live.

We took her to the specialist yesterday. They did another needle aspiration biopsy and a chest x-ray. No metastasis to the lungs! The vet called tonight with the lab results. It's a Plasma cell tumor, not the other one. Apparently this type of cancer has a very high cure rate...with surgical removal.

One...we do not have the $3K for the additional diagnostic costs plus surgery.

Two...and this is the biggie, if we DID have the money, our dog is 12 years old and DH is very against subjecting her to surgery. Greyhounds are super sensitive to anesthesia and this would be a high risk for her.

She would need an abdominal ultrasound, bone marrow extraction, CT scan, bloodwork wall before the actual surgery which would require another sedation.

The vet suggested the possibility of chemo, which is $150 per month...for the rest of her life. But chemo scares the hell out of me as far as destroying her quality of life. I know how chemo works. I just picture her listless, vomiting and sickly.

What would you do? Part of me wants to try to find a way to pay for surgery, but I totally understand DH being so against it. I've had many friends lose pets from surgical complications in their older dogs.

I'm heart broken. Maybe it would have been "easier" if the oncologist had just said there was nothing they could do. Essentially, if we do nothing, the tumor will grow bigger and bigger until it crowds her mouth to the point of being unable to eat, and THAT'S just devastating.

 

[CathrynRose]

Aye - yi - yi.

I dont know. I dont know what I would do. UGH!

12 years old is pretty old in doggie years. What's a greyhound 'normal' life expectancy?

Are there any alternatives to the surgery? Anything? Something that could just prolong her life, regardless?

UGH! That's a toughie.

I can tell you this, if I chose NOT to do the surgery, I wouldnt have her put down until it was a problem or causing her discomfort.

 

[Pigeon]

Boy, that's hard and I'm sorry you are dealing with it.

Did the vet give you any idea what percent of the time the cancer comes back anyway after surgery?

We had an elderly cat who had a mammary tumor. We did the surgery to remove it, but the cancer was back in a few months. If I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have put her through the surgery.

Having been through chemo myself, there is no way I'd do that to an animal.

 

[raysnkaysmom]

Aye - yi - yi.

I dont know. I dont know what I would do. UGH!

12 years old is pretty old in doggie years. What's a greyhound 'normal' life expectancy?

Are there any alternatives to the surgery? Anything? Something that could just prolong her life, regardless?

UGH! That's a toughie.

I can tell you this, if I chose NOT to do the surgery, I wouldnt have her put down until it was a problem or causing her discomfort.

I agree... I would not put her down until/unless she was in pain. I was thinking greyhounds have a shorter life expectancy. Ask for info on the chemo, how other dogs react. It may be best to just let it ride its course, but I am so sorry you are having to go through this

 

[Disney Doll]

I probably wouldn't put a 12 year old dog through surgery. My friend's 8 year old Lab had a mast cell tumor and she did chemo and got a pretty good year out of him. Chemo doesn't seem to affect dogs like it does people.

Speak to the vet about chemo.

 

[Jennasis]

Greyhound lifespan is approx 12-15 years. So she is definitely on the "last lap" as it were. If we do the "let nature take it's course" route, we won't put her down until the tumor impedes her quality of life, becomes painful etc...She's comfy and happy right now. If it weren't for the big mump you wouldn't know there was anything wrong at all.

This is just so unfair. She is the light of our lives.

The oncologist didn't seem terribly fazed by the thought of surgery. She thought the dog looked fantastic for twelve. Apparently the cure rate with surgery is excellent with very low incidents of recurrence. But the surgery...ugh. If we had the money, we'd still be reluctant to go that route.

The chemo suggestion she gave is usually meant to treat multiple myeloma (which is what this cancer could become, though it's only a 3% chance of that happening). She claims the drug is usually well tolerated...but I've seen so many people on chemo...and she'd NEVER come off the drug. I assume it would be cyclophosphamide.

 

[new englander]

I'm sorry that your in this position its so sad to have a part of your family so sick.

 

[kacaju]

What a tough choice!! I could not do all of that to a 12 year old old. Forget the money, that is a lot to put a 12 year old large breed dog through. i say that because many little dogs tend to live longer then the large breeds.

We are a dog show family and I used to work for a Vet. I have seen everything from people who cannot afford or want to treat their animals for a *minor* problem and those that spend thousands on *major* problems.

I always try to look at what it is I am going to treat. A 12 year old dog who has cancer, no I am not going to put the dog through that. If the dog was 2 years old, yes, if money was not an issue I would consider it.

A 12 year old dog with a broken leg? That I would fix because the dog could go on to live out it's live with no complications and added treatments.

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

If the type of cancer she has is highly curable with surgical excision, then why do the additional testing? Honestly, I would have the tumors removed (without further testing) and see what happens. In the worst case scenario, it may have metastisized, but the primary tumor isn't causing her pain/bleeding/etc. and in the best case scenario, it's gone.

 

[Jennasis]

If the type of cancer she has is highly curable with surgical excision, then why do the additional testing? Honestly, I would have the tumors removed (without further testing) and see what happens. In the worst case scenario, it may have metastisized, but the primary tumor isn't causing her pain/bleeding/etc. and in the best case scenario, it's gone.

Some of the tests are to ascertain whether she'd be a candidate for surgery at all, and the CT scan is necessary to determine the actual proportions of the tumor for removal...as I understand it. The belly ultrasound (which she would do for free) and the bone marrow are to check for metastasis I believe.

The surgery would be $1700-$2000, and the other tests are $1200-$1400.

 

[MickeyMouseGal]

That still seems fairly expensive. Is this a board certified surgeon doing the surgery?

 

[2BigKIdz]

When my Snickers was twelve he developed a large tumor on his chest. I did take him in for surgery. Once they were in they found that the tumor had wrapped around his muscle wall and would require extensive surgery to remove so they took a biopsy and closed him up (cost $800). The tumor was benign so the vet recommended leaving it alone at his age as the surgery alone would be very risky and the tumor would likely return. So for 3 more years he led a good life. The tumor did grow but he didn't seem to pay it any mind until the last month or so of his life, it seemed to double in size in just a few days and he was in obvious pain so we did what we had to do for him.

It's a very hard choice to make but if it were me and the dog seems happy I would leave it alone for now or try the chemo if it wouldn't make her very ill and reduce her quality of life.

Good luck

 

[lemondog]

We had a cancer dx in our 12 yo dog last fall. We opted out of chemo. 12 is pretty old in dog years, and we didn't want her quality of life to diminish. Also, I was not willing to expose my children to the chemo (which is excreted in the urine and our dog pees in the same yard my kids play in).

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[npmommie]

We took our greyhound to the oncologist to try to get a second opinion/confirmation of the diagnosis our home vet made a few weeks ago. Our dog developed a tumor in her mouth that makes her look like she has the mumps on her left jaw. Our home vet said it was either amelanotic melanoma or a sarcoid and was likely aggressive and may have already metastasized to her lungs and lymph nodes...maybe 6+ months to live.

We took her to the specialist yesterday. They did another needle aspiration biopsy and a chest x-ray. No metastasis to the lungs! The vet called tonight with the lab results. It's a Plasma cell tumor, not the other one. Apparently this type of cancer has a very high cure rate...with surgical removal.

One...we do not have the $3K for the additional diagnostic costs plus surgery.

Two...and this is the biggie, if we DID have the money, our dog is 12 years old and DH is very against subjecting her to surgery. Greyhounds are super sensitive to anesthesia and this would be a high risk for her.

She would need an abdominal ultrasound, bone marrow extraction, CT scan, bloodwork wall before the actual surgery which would require another sedation.

The vet suggested the possibility of chemo, which is $150 per month...for the rest of her life. But chemo scares the hell out of me as far as destroying her quality of life. I know how chemo works. I just picture her listless, vomiting and sickly.

What would you do? Part of me wants to try to find a way to pay for surgery, but I totally understand DH being so against it. I've had many friends lose pets from surgical complications in their older dogs.

I'm heart broken. Maybe it would have been "easier" if the oncologist had just said there was nothing they could do. Essentially, if we do nothing, the tumor will grow bigger and bigger until it crowds her mouth to the point of being unable to eat, and THAT'S just devastating.

my SIL and BIL's dog had this very same tumour. they opted to do the surgery and did chemo as well, the dog was about the same in age as yours and a medium breed.
she tolerated surgery and chemo very well, and had about 2 years of good quality of life after the diagnosis.
good luck with everything, I know its a hard decision to know what to do.

on another note, my lab mix was given 3 months to live "maybe" 6 mo if we did chemo. we chose not to do chemo,
I did a combo of herbal and natural supplements, she had 2 years of good quality of life before we lost her. it was a different type of cancer.

 

[horseshowmom]

I just wanted to add my sympathy to that of the other posters. I've dealt with having to make similar choices myself, and it's so hard. Probably, if it were me, I would make her as comfortable as I could for the time she had left, but I probably would not put her through tests, surgery, chemo, etc. considering her age.

Best wishes for you and for her for whatever you decide...

 

[donaldbuzz&minnie]

The thing I always tried to remember with my dogs was that dogs don't think in terms of past, or future. They have "now." They also don't fear death. I wanted my dogs' "now" to be good. If they needed treatment, I would do it if there was going to be a quick recovery back to a good "now". But I drew the line at asking them to go through something a human might find acceptable", but a dog might not understand - too much pain/misery for too long a time in the service of a compromised future. To a dog, I imagine that's just suffering.

Hope this helps, but in the end I'm sure you'll make a good decision for your dog. It's really a tough call no matter which way you lean. I'm sure your dog knows you love him and are doing your best. That's all that really matters.

 

[TheBigBadWolf]

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. If she were my dog, I would immediately start her on Cimetidine (Tagamet). It is a drug often used to treat horses who have melanoma. I have used it for years to shrink melanomas on my grey Arabian mare. You are probably familiar with how prevalent melanomas are in grey horses? Please google "Cimetidine and horses" and you'll learn so much about this wonderful drug. There are some great articles about it and its use, particularly in Andalusians. It doesn't work on all types of cancers but I have seen a lot of success with it on several types of cancers. My vet says it won't cure cancer but it will give the animals a better quality of life, and she uses it a lot in her practice when chemo is not an option.

My nephew had a ferret who developed a huge tumor on his throat. The vet said he was only a few days away from her having to put him to sleep. I begged my brother to at least try Cimetidine on the ferret, as he was dying anyway and there wasn't anything to lose. I'm sure we overdosed him because the ferret vet was not the least bit helpful, telling us the Cimetidine would not help the ferret. So we used our own judgement, and gave the ferret Cimetidine every eight hours around the clock. In only four days, his tumor shrunk in HALF. It was unbelievable! Unfortunately the ferret managed to hang himself in his ferret hammock a few weeks later, so we will never know how long the tumor would've stayed at bay, or how long he would have lived with the Cimetidine treatment.

Do your own research on this drug and please give it a try. The worst it could do to your dog is cause her not to have indigestion. And at best it will shrink the tumor. It's very cheap, and readily available. If your vet won't give you some prescription strength Cimetidine (800 mg) you can buy 200 mg OTC at Wal*Mart. I pay $12 per 100 for the prescription strength. The most important thing is the drug should be given every eight hours to be most effective. For my 800# horse I give 800 mg three times a day. I don't know what dosage you'd need on your dog. Hopefully your vet will be willing to try it, and if not, do it yourself!

I hope this will help her. I truly consider it a miracle drug.

 

[Jennasis]

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog. If she were my dog, I would immediately start her on Cimetidine (Tagamet). It is a drug often used to treat horses who have melanoma. I have used it for years to shrink melanomas on my grey Arabian mare. You are probably familiar with how prevalent melanomas are in grey horses? Please google "Cimetidine and horses" and you'll learn so much about this wonderful drug. There are some great articles about it and its use, particularly in Andalusians. It doesn't work on all types of cancers but I have seen a lot of success with it on several types of cancers. My vet says it won't cure cancer but it will give the animals a better quality of life, and she uses it a lot in her practice when chemo is not an option.

My nephew had a ferret who developed a huge tumor on his throat. The vet said he was only a few days away from her having to put him to sleep. I begged my brother to at least try Cimetidine on the ferret, as he was dying anyway and there wasn't anything to lose. I'm sure we overdosed him because the ferret vet was not the least bit helpful, telling us the Cimetidine would not help the ferret. So we used our own judgement, and gave the ferret Cimetidine every eight hours around the clock. In only four days, his tumor shrunk in HALF. It was unbelievable! Unfortunately the ferret managed to hang himself in his ferret hammock a few weeks later, so we will never know how long the tumor would've stayed at bay, or how long he would have lived with the Cimetidine treatment.

Do your own research on this drug and please give it a try. The worst it could do to your dog is cause her not to have indigestion. And at best it will shrink the tumor. It's very cheap, and readily available. If your vet won't give you some prescription strength Cimetidine (800 mg) you can buy 200 mg OTC at Wal*Mart. I pay $12 per 100 for the prescription strength. The most important thing is the drug should be given every eight hours to be most effective. For my 800# horse I give 800 mg three times a day. I don't know what dosage you'd need on your dog. Hopefully your vet will be willing to try it, and if not, do it yourself!

I hope this will help her. I truly consider it a miracle drug.

My home vet has suggested this as a possibility (with the caveat that it's used for melanomas generally and this tumor was likely not a melanoma...and it isn't). We have used it on one of the grey horses in the barn who is littered with melanomas along her tail and buttocks.

As you said, it certainly couldn't hurt. I'll have to put a call into our regular vet. I'm sure she will give the dosage info and a script if necessary.

To the poster who asked, the oncologist is board certified.

 

[mom2travel]

Greyhound lifespan is approx 12-15 years. So she is definitely on the "last lap" as it were. If we do the "let nature take it's course" route, we won't put her down until the tumor impedes her quality of life, becomes painful etc...She's comfy and happy right now. If it weren't for the big mump you wouldn't know there was anything wrong at all.

This is just so unfair. She is the light of our lives.

The oncologist didn't seem terribly fazed by the thought of surgery. She thought the dog looked fantastic for twelve. Apparently the cure rate with surgery is excellent with very low incidents of recurrence. But the surgery...ugh. If we had the money, we'd still be reluctant to go that route.

The chemo suggestion she gave is usually meant to treat multiple myeloma (which is what this cancer could become, though it's only a 3% chance of that happening). She claims the drug is usually well tolerated...but I've seen so many people on chemo...and she'd NEVER come off the drug. I assume it would be cyclophosphamide.

I'm so sorry to hear about your dog.

We went through something similar last year with our first dog. I have no knowledge of how the two different types of cancers compare but maybe this will help. She developed a tumor on her leg about early May 2008 when she had just turned 11. The specialist our vet referred us to recommended a course of treatment that would have cost in the $5,000+ range; that would have involved numerous tests, removal of the tumor and ongoing chemo and radiation therapy. DH was surprised that they presented this in such a matter of fact manner.

Given her age and other factors (like hip displasia and torn ACLs - in some ways she had already lived longer than predicted), in addition to the large sum of money involved, we needed an alternative. As a side note - the oncologist and our vet both said that dogs do not react to chemo the way humans do. However, we did not feel that it would have been in her best interest from a quality of life perspective to put her through all of that; it's a pretty intensive and time consuming process - at least what we were told for her; lots of back and forth and meds, etc. We ended up having the tumor surgically removed in late May. She had to take pain killers and antibiotics for a bit also.
All was good for months, but about January 2009 the tumor had grown back, not large yet, but clearly visible. This time it grew really fast and eventually split open. Because she was in otherwise good health, was eating and could get up and down stairs on her own, the vet said to keep it clean and wrapped and just let it be. By about mid-March though we could see that she was so sad and tired, so we took her to be put to sleep.

Again, I realize not exactly the same circumstances, but hopefully helps with the time frame. I feel for you. It was just about the worst thing we have ever gone through. It is difficult to make these kinds of decisions and know what is best for someone who can't speak. Remember to think of her first, although it is sad for you, and act in her best interest; it is tough to draw the line between wanting more time together and putting your beloved family member out of her misery. Enjoy the time you have, trust your instincts, and know that you know your pet and will understand when she is telling you it is time to say goodbye. Good luck

 

[perdidobay]

This advice is coming from someone who just spent 13k to give her 8 year old dog 10 extra months of life.... but this was something we could afford.
She had chemo treatments the entire time and as for side effects and quailty of life.....dogs have few side effects from chemo. She was happy and fine except for the occasional bout of diarreha.

If I were in your shoes I would not do surgery but try chemo for a while just so you can love on your dog before you have to say goodbye.
The hardest part about all of it for me was having the strengh to not be selfish and keep her around even one extra day too long because I couldn't bear to part with her.
It is not easy I know