Small rant about something I witnessed in the bus line

[goofy4tink]

goofy4tink what would you do with my 5 year old grandson as my husband boards with me as the one person? is he to be on his own? if he boards with me and i need help to control him, specialneeds. we are a party of 3 and i use a scooter.

As I said, there will always be exceptions. No one is going to take issue with a boy boarding with his family, unless that family group is 10+!!!

Having a physical handicap is just that, a physical handicap. But it shouldn't give one a "Fast Pass" for life either. They can wait in line like everyone else in most cases. Obviously there are situations where that is difficult or more hassle than it's worth, but for 90% of the time they should wait.

Seriously??? Are you aware that the law says that ECVs and wheelchairs have to be boarded first?? So, if they have waited in line for 20 mins, and they are now the 15th person in the line, but the seats meant for ECV tie downs have been taken, so they get to wait for another 20 mins?? Bus drivers no longer ask guests to get up from those seats...they got tired of the treatment they got. So, they tell the ECV rider they will have to wait for another bus.
In all reality, if waiting an addtl 8 mins is going to upset someone, because an ECV pulled up just as the bus came, and now they get to get on first, then perhaps an attitude change may be in order. No one ever said anything about it being a FP....but there are safety issues involved.

I have much more of an issue with the huge double strollers that are now clogging up the buses. Sure, everyone has a right to bring their children to WDW, and to provide for their transport around the parks, but really?? Those strollers are a huge issue on overcrowded buses. They make it almost impossible to move onto the bus and get past them. They take up a boatload of room. And then, for some reason, it's always the stroller people who are in the biggest hurry to get off the bus...banging into everyone as they rush to get off the bus. I actually overheard one dad yelling...'Please, make way. I have to get to my family...NOW!!' as he barged into everyone, trying to start unfolding the huge stroller as he got closer to that back door!!!

common courtesy is a wonderful thing. It might be nice to have people just take a chill pill and not be so self absorbent.

 

[Friendly Frog]

Having a physical handicap is just that, a physical handicap. But it shouldn't give one a "Fast Pass" for life either. They can wait in line like everyone else in most cases. Obviously there are situations where that is difficult or more hassle than it's worth, but for 90% of the time they should wait.

How would you like it if every WDW bus only had three seats? All the rest of the space was open space for a ecvs? Oh and if an EC V wants 1 of those 3 seats they fold the seats up and take that space and refused to move?

The current system at parks for ECV line has the ECV exiting out of the regular line way too late and as a result the ECvs are almost always loading 2 buses after they have waited in line and people behind them have loaded. Keep in mind many of the people on ECVs have not had the luxury of being able to spend a lot of time in the park to begin with! They may have 4 hours of energy to spend in a day, and some people want to be sure that they spend time waiting in a regular bus ( then often an additional ECV line) just to be "fair"? Hey the lady on chemo can wait, my feet are sore.

 

[seashoreCM]

The current system at parks for ECV line has the ECV exiting out of the regular line way too late and as a result the ECvs are almost always loading 2 buses after they have waited in line and people behind them have loaded. Keep in mind many of the people on ECVs have not had the luxury of being able to spend a lot of time in the park to begin with! They may have 4 hours of energy to spend in a day, and some people want to be sure that they spend time waiting in a regular bus ( then often an additional ECV line) just to be "fair"? Hey the lady on chemo can wait, my feet are sore.

Are the zigs and zags in the bus queueing area long enough so the opening for ECVs to exit out could be put earlier (further in advance of the on deck circle)?

Now if the buses actually came every eight minutes or less, ECVs loading two buses after they have waited in line would not be that objectionable.

How would you like it if every WDW bus only had three seats? All the rest of the space was open space for a ecvs? Oh and if an EC V wants 1 of those 3 seats they fold the seats up and take that space and refused to move?

This is a bus (or rather a streetcar) with about 7 seats altogether.

 

[Friendly Frog]

Are the zigs and zags in the bus queueing area long enough so the opening for ECVs to exit out could be put earlier (further in advance of the on deck circle)? Currently once you are in line, you can not easilly get out of line. That is part of the problem. I have seen bus drivers try to pull ECV's out earlier but couldn't because the line is not wide enough for an ECV to pass people safely.



Now if the buses actually came every eight minutes or less, ECVs loading two buses after they have waited in line would not be that objectionable.

I have to smile a little at that, since waiting one or two more buses is what started the able body to complain and get the ECV loading changed in the first place.

This is a bus (or rather a streetcar) with about 7 seats altogether.

"I am sure someone is going to title that New Disney ECV bus."

They need to utilize those 2-3 spaces on every bus and to do it safely they need to load those ECV's first. They just need to limit the number of people that ride with the ECV. one adult and any minors or special needs individuals. (Any exceptions can be addressed by the bus driver. )

What next, people will complain because the vision impaired get all the "good" front row seats?

 

[Tony NY]

Let me tell you the "flip side" of that situation.

MK bus stop. Not closing time yet, but during EMH. I am always on an ECV (balance issues). The Pop bus line is crowded. There are 2 ECV's in the waiting area. I was not quite 2 months post-op from a spinal cord & cervical surgery. I was wearing a collar - quite large & obvious.

The crowd started screaming at ME - before I even got to the line - that I had to go through the line just like everyone else. Apparently, the 2 ECVs in the handicapped area had cut in line & they were mad. Crowd anger took over & took their anger out on the next ECV (me). I was actually unable to go through the line - was in a sad state each time the line turned. I couldn't see correctly because I couldn't bend my neck yet - and the turning actually made me dizzy. There was no bus coordinator there to help. I went through the line so that I didn't get "tarred & feathered" by an angry mob. It was horrifying for me.

I waited through 4 buses before I got on one. The 2nd & 3rd bus did not acknowledge my presence at all.

Please don't get mad at a person on an ECV. You don't know their story.

Im so sorry you had peopel mad at you let alon yell at you... I was clear looking at you you had a disability and I know it pain in A** it was for you . I don't under statand how this could have happend to you.. I hope you told guest services about your exprennes..

 

[crashbb]

As I said, there will always be exceptions. No one is going to take issue with a boy boarding with his family, unless that family group is 10+!!!


Seriously??? Are you aware that the law says that ECVs and wheelchairs have to be boarded first?? So, if they have waited in line for 20 mins, and they are now the 15th person in the line, but the seats meant for ECV tie downs have been taken, so they get to wait for another 20 mins?? Bus drivers no longer ask guests to get up from those seats...they got tired of the treatment they got. So, they tell the ECV rider they will have to wait for another bus.
In all reality, if waiting an addtl 8 mins is going to upset someone, because an ECV pulled up just as the bus came, and now they get to get on first, then perhaps an attitude change may be in order. No one ever said anything about it being a FP....but there are safety issues involved.

Really? Can you cite the law? Not being snarky, but I didn't think that this part was a law. It is done for ease and safety - as you point out it can be difficult (it not impossible) for an ECV to board when the bus is already partially filled.

 

[Halbleib1]

Last Oct I noticed them having those in wheelchairs and ecvs wait in the reg line. I also noticed that very few people were using them. At least in the bus lines to/from Pop. There were a good bit in the parks but not the amount we saw on other trips. This past Dec it was back to those in wheelchairs and ecvs not getting in the lines at all but waiting to the side Just about every bus ride we took had at least one on it. Granted it could be the time of year or that in Oct 2011 they didn't use the buses. But it could also be that those that were abusing it in the past were not doing so because they found it more inconvenient than in the past.. There really isn't a solution that will make everyone happy. You just have to make the best of it but it did seem like the changes of having them wait in line was working.

 

[I Love Pluto]

Im so sorry you had peopel mad at you let alon yell at you... I was clear looking at you you had a disability and I know it pain in A** it was for you . I don't under statand how this could have happend to you.. I hope you told guest services about your exprennes..

THANK YOU for caring about me, Tony NY.

You are an awesome person!

 

[bumbershoot]

Really? Can you cite the law? Not being snarky, but I didn't think that this part was a law. It is done for ease and safety - as you point out it can be difficult (it not impossible) for an ECV to board when the bus is already partially filled.

The way it was explained in the past was that if the bus was too full for those that the ADA protects, then it's too full for anyone by law (otherwise it's discriminatory). So if they suddenly encounter someone on wheels but that person can't get on, then they cannot let ANYONE on. So the doors close and the bus leaves.

And that's why it's best if the people using wheelchairs/scooters wait outside of the line, so that the drivers can see them and change the way they load based on that information. They get on first, others load around them, the bus is filled and goes away. Far better than closing the doors with lots of seats but no way for the person in the wheelchair or scooter to get on.

Now if they would figure out a way to make the *line* situation better, then it could be great. Some way to prove when people got into the line, so they could be loaded properly. That's where they should focus their energies.

 

[crashbb]

The way it was explained in the past was that if the bus was too full for those that the ADA protects, then it's too full for anyone by law (otherwise it's discriminatory). So if they suddenly encounter someone on wheels but that person can't get on, then they cannot let ANYONE on. So the doors close and the bus leaves.

And that's why it's best if the people using wheelchairs/scooters wait outside of the line, so that the drivers can see them and change the way they load based on that information. They get on first, others load around them, the bus is filled and goes away. Far better than closing the doors with lots of seats but no way for the person in the wheelchair or scooter to get on.

Now if they would figure out a way to make the *line* situation better, then it could be great. Some way to prove when people got into the line, so they could be loaded properly. That's where they should focus their energies.

I've heard that rule before (though never actually seen the law). However, it still does not say that those in wheelchairs or ECVs MUST be boarded first - that it just what WDW has decided to do because (as you say) it is easier.

I'm not arguing (at all) that wheelchairs/ECVs should wait outside of the line or be boarded first, I'm just questioning the existence of a law saying that they must be. Certainly, they aren't on public transit systems or even at WDW on buses with more than one stop - unless you are at the first stop, it is impossible to board an empty bus.

 

[Lewisc]

I've heard that rule before (though never actually seen the law). However, it still does not say that those in wheelchairs or ECVs MUST be boarded first - that it just what WDW has decided to do because (as you say) it is easier.

I'm not arguing (at all) that wheelchairs/ECVs should wait outside of the line or be boarded first, I'm just questioning the existence of a law saying that they must be. Certainly, they aren't on public transit systems or even at WDW on buses with more than one stop - unless you are at the first stop, it is impossible to board an empty bus.

Sounds like Disney decided letting ECVs board first is the only (best/easiest) way for them to comply with the law.

 

[cranbiz]

Sounds like Disney decided letting ECVs board first is the only (best/easiest) way for them to comply with the law.

It's the safest option for all involved.

At resort pickups with multiple stops (All Stars, BW,SW DO, YC, BC, etc.) if you have a mostly full bus at the first one and an EVC at the second stop, it's a PITA. Not due to the ECV, due to the fact that there is no room to maneuver the ECV. A large percentage of ECV guests are not accomplished drivers and the likely hood of running over someones feet is great.

Now, I never had a problem moving guests from the tie down seats, just pointed to the signage while politely requesting the space. Things may be much different now though.

 

[goofy4tink]

Really? Can you cite the law? Not being snarky, but I didn't think that this part was a law. It is done for ease and safety - as you point out it can be difficult (it not impossible) for an ECV to board when the bus is already partially filled.

That's just what I've been told. Now...that could have just been the driver saying something to make me stop asking!!!

Here's an interesting scenario, since everyone is to be treated equally. Let's say there is a line of say, 15 people, at the first stop. They get on. The bus gets to the second stop, where there is also a line, but within that line there is an ECV. If those at the front of the line are able to board, but it is no way to safely board the ECV....so, with equal rights, do we now make all those behind that ECV wait? Or, do we pull the ECV out of line, put them in another spot to wait for the next bus? And what happens if there is no way to board that bus?

ADA says that everyone is to be treated the same..no one gets preferential treatment. So, who do we tick off???
This is a lose-lose situation. It would be so much better if people just stopped worrying about the addlt 10 mins it will now take them to get someplace and allow the ECV to board. And when I say board, I mean the ECV and one helper. They don't get to board with all 15 in their group. Those folks can get in line just like everyone else.

 

[*Seanaci*]

Being a public transit rider (in the Denver area) for 5+ years I see things differently:

Yes (as some have pointed out(, Disney buses are the equivalent of public transport. However, it sounds as though they are the ones who decided to load ECV's/WC first to comply with ADA laws. On normal public transit (here at least) I've never seen someone on an ECV or in a wheel chair be loaded before other able bodied people. They waited just like everyone else to load the bus (granted the buses are larger than Disney buses). Most of the time as the wc or ECV was being loaded, anyone sitting in the seats where they tie down ECV's got up and moved without being asked. I would say patience and common courtesy on everyone's part (ECV users and able bodied alike) should make this less of an issue.

Yes, we all run ourselves ragged in the parks. Yes, we all have to wait in a line to get on a bus back to our resort at the end of the day. Should someone on an ECV be given preferential treatment getting on a bus...by not waiting in line? It's debatable. If there are 3 ECV's waiting and a bus that pulls up has tie downs for all three, then those 3 ECV's should be loaded first. What about family members with that ECV? They should have to wait in line like everyone else. If the ECV rider requires assistance, then only 1 other person should be allowed to board with them.

Really, there probably is no solution to make everyone happy over this. But in a perfect world, we would all practice patience in this debate.

 

[goofy4tink]

Being a public transit rider (in the Denver area) for 5+ years I see things differently:

Yes (as some have pointed out(, Disney buses are the equivalent of public transport. However, it sounds as though they are the ones who decided to load ECV's/WC first to comply with ADA laws. On normal public transit (here at least) I've never seen someone on an ECV or in a wheel chair be loaded before other able bodied people. They waited just like everyone else to load the bus (granted the buses are larger than Disney buses). Most of the time as the wc or ECV was being loaded, anyone sitting in the seats where they tie down ECV's got up and moved without being asked. I would say patience and common courtesy on everyone's part (ECV users and able bodied alike) should make this less of an issue.

Yes, we all run ourselves ragged in the parks. Yes, we all have to wait in a line to get on a bus back to our resort at the end of the day. Should someone on an ECV be given preferential treatment getting on a bus...by not waiting in line? It's debatable. If there are 3 ECV's waiting and a bus that pulls up has tie downs for all three, then those 3 ECV's should be loaded first. What about family members with that ECV? They should have to wait in line like everyone else. If the ECV rider requires assistance, then only 1 other person should be allowed to board with them.

Really, there probably is no solution to make everyone happy over this. But in a perfect world, we would all practice patience in this debate.

I tend to agree but...here's my issue. If there are 70 people in that line (and that isn't a huge number), and there is an ECV towards the end.....all those people are now boarded, the ECV has to be brought on. And there are a lot of people standing. We have to get the people who have decided to take a chance and sit on the ECV tie down seats up and out of those seats. So, they now add to the congestion. All the guests that are standing now have to move aside. At would be, at best, chaotic.
The problem is this...those that are used to using public transportation are nonplussed by having an ECV board. It's a common occurence for them. And usually (at least I imagine this to be the case) the person using the ECV is good at boarding. When at WDW, you have guests that aren't used to public transportation. You have guests on ECVs that don't normally use them. Put those two things together and you have potential for issues.

I have no issue with an ECV being boarded first...even if there are 50 people waiting in the line. And, as long as that ECV is waiting there, as the bus comes in. If that ECV is rolling along as the bus arrives? No, not so much.
Also.....that ECV person gets to have one person board with them...not the entire family. And of course, if it's a family of under 4, then fine, they all board together. But it's just not fair for a huge number of guests to board after waiting for a very short time, when other guests, in line, may have been waiting for a much longer time.

 

[disneymarie]

They are now using a new boarding system especially at MK, for the lines for the buses. A person with a wheelchair or ECV is supposed to go thru the regular line until a certain point where the person will be pulled out so that they can be loaded. This might mean waiting for another bus while many behind you in line gets on the bus already there. They are only supposed to allow the person on the scooter or wheelchair plus up to 5 people in their party to board at the back door.

If they have started boarding the bus by the time a person with the ECV or wheelchair gets to the pull off spot, then they are forced to wait for the next bus while any able bodied person behind them gets to board until the bus is full. Is this equal wait times? I don't think so!

TY
Last trip we had been directed this way. Unfortunately Good Samaritan open the chain when I reached the spot for me to push the wheel chair to a line. I am disabled, but traveling alone with dd that day no one to push her. The CM came over to me threw me out of the line, boarded next person stating I was cutting by NOT going threw the line I did just wait in.
Besides as you said the bus was loaded so no way to enter that one, we waited our turn for????

I was so strained I just cried and told him the person that helped me out, he would not even ask them. By that time he must have believed me but didn't admit it. So the next two buses, no handicap access. We wait for the third one before we can enter. That was four buses until we loaded.

I was hurting so bad from standing that time with no were to sit and relieve the pain. Leaning over on the chair one foot up at a time to get pressure off the lumbar. I went to finally get her up the ramp and my ears were ringing from the pain. When I finally got to sit, a Mom stood in front of me with a toddler sleeping and I couldn't even get up to giver my seat, but offered to hold the little one. Not one man or teenager would give up a seat. How sad.

But, we are also the last to get off on any trip.

The next trip, I took our car. Well, no elevator to get up on the monorail. I have 3 herniated disc, osteophyte grew pressing on sciatic nerve from hip tilt, carpal tunnel, Fybromyalgia, cervical herniations, and two knee surgeries from a car accident. Generally I walk with a rollator.

It is terrible to the abuses, but sadder to be the one in pain and treated like an abuser. The days are not dashing to rides. Only so much the body can handle. I was in so much pain when dd wanted to see Princesses during MNSSHP I had to ask for assistance for my dd to stay in line and someone to get me when she reached the front. Walking and sitting are no where as bad as the pressure when standing. I am thinking of looking for a seat on like a cane handle for any future trips. I can open it to sit getting the pressure off my back.

Oh, one other vent...the fairy to ttc the line has me in the stroller line, then the mad dash or herd of people storm through to enter. Try and find a seat! Finally get off the boat and up to the parking lot. Still have to get through rows and rows of cars. I never realized how far out it is. Coming in, my vent is pushing someone up the hill instead of a security point for pushed chairs.

Bless the families with disabled members that cannot transfer, it has to be even more exhausting. We end up with avg. five attractions, a show or two.
Once when I finally got to the top of splash mountain I asked for a second ride because I was never going to get back up the climb again. Oh, and POTC, with ds in ECV I can't push two. Finally, I got Dave the CM to find someone to push in the guest wheelchair.

Oh gosh, do I even really want to go back this year and go through that all over again? I don't think I can!

 

[chadridge]

Being somebody who works in the transportation field it's unfortunate that Disney allows so many wheelchair vendors I feel there are a lot of people miss using them now enybody can get 1 this is causing a huge problem with Disney transportation system it's also causing a problem and wait times for people who truly have disabilities

 

[M2B]

Reading this thread is making me not even want to go, since I have no choice but to use a scooter.

Are people going to get snarky because the scooter needs to be tied down first for safety reasons? Grouch because there are 3 of us, and our 11 year old son is tall, built like a football player and looks older? (Some assume he's 13 or older.. old enough to wait for another bus..?)

Doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun. Fight the crowds while on the scooter, deal with the people who can't see it so step right on it and then yell at me. (BTDT that at Disneyland) Lose my family in the crowd because people walk between us and I have to stop for them. Wait longer for buses because there's limited space for ECV's. Get off the bus last. Deal with people who have no scruples and think using an ECV is a luxury.. partially because so many idiots abuse them.

Oh joy oh bliss.. I can hardly wait.

 

[maxiesmom]

Being somebody who works in the transportation field it's unfortunate that Disney allows so many wheelchair vendors I feel there are a lot of people miss using them now enybody can get 1 this is causing a huge problem with Disney transportation system it's also causing a problem and wait times for people who truly have disabilities

I disagree. If you have ever tried to tour WDW with someone in a wheelchair or scooter, you know that it is not easy. There are no perks for those touring the parks on wheels. And it can be expensive.

If anyone rents a scooter or chair for one day, thinking they will get front of the line passes, or not have to wait for anything, they quickly learn that is not true. There is no reason for anyone to misuse scooters at WDW.

 

[seashoreCM]

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