Skipping WDW parks for Universal because of FP+

[tjkraz]

IOne of the main reasons I don't like fp+ is the booking so far in advance...

This is the biggest misconception which (hopefully) people will realize over time. There is no need to schedule attractions days in advance. That's exactly why Disney is applying the limits of 3 FPs per day and tiering some of the attractions; so that rides are NOT fully booked weeks in advance.

Only time will tell exactly how flexible it proves to be but I have every expectation you'll be able to reserve ride times same-day and still have your choice of pretty much any attraction and return time.

FP+: I had to choose between RnRC and TSMM while making my selections. While TSMM is the smarter choice for FP+, having a FP+ for RnRC right before leaving the park (a tradition) will make the majority of our group happier. I explained that I was disappointed that I even had to choose, and suggested they increase HS to at least 2 headliners, and giving the option for both to be on the same ride if that's how I'd prefer to use them. Same for Epcot. And it's not FP+ per se that I don't like, it's the rules and limitations, and these can be improved upon.

Problem is TSM, RnR, Soarin and Test Track simply do not have enough daily capacity for every park guest to ride. Never have...never will.

TSM is the biggest problem on WDW property. At best, it's hourly rider capacity is around 1200. Over a 10-hour operating day (9-7), that's 12000 guests. The park's average daily attendance is more than double that.

With the legacy (old / original) FastPass system, the more informed park guests were able to maximize access to those rides. They knew to arrive early, head straight for TT/Soarin to get FP, get another FP as soon as the 2 hour window arrived, etc.

People who arrived later in the day or didn't properly manage their FastPasses were left in the cold. They still paid $90 to enter the park but either faced long standby waits or didn't get to ride at all.

Not really sure what Disney could do to address the tiering of FastPasses. As I implied above, they won't create a system where TSM and other attractions are booked solid long before the operating day begins. But when you have attractions which can only accommodate half of the park guests--maybe 1/3 or 1/4 on a busy day--people are forced to choose.

It just happens that the FP+ method of forcing a choice is a little more overt than the old system.

 

[Msmithmd]

+1 tjkraz

The problem is capacity, not FP+. All FP+ does is redistribute the FP so that more people get one FP a day and no one gets multiple for the same attraction.

Is that fair? Well, yes. Is it a definite downgrade in park experience for the experienced commando tourer? Also yes.

It is clearly in Disney's interest to make one commando style tourer upset, in order to make four other guests more happy. I totally get why some are upset with the change.

But Disney clearly isn't going to back off on this; they've spent way too much to develop this system. I think we all have to adapt, or find a different vacation.

Speaking only for myself and my family, we are commando style visitors but so far we have loved going for rope drop on standby and using FP+ in the afternoon/evening. YMMV.

 

[quandrea]

The thing is, everybody is at a different point in life regarding the subject.

Picture this-we close Mk at 3AM. We get up at BCV say 11AM-walk out and grab a chair at SAB or the beach. Grab lunch HH and an umbrella drink.

Now somebody walks by and asked if we want QTY 10 5PM FP's for......._________ (fill in any headliner you want) seriously if it's a headliner we will be overjoyed to take it.

TSM heck yea, TOT/RNR/EE/Soarin/TT/SM/SM/BTMRR-IT DOESN'T MATTER-that's where we will go. Now tell me you have 3 in succession in the same park? Are you kidding me? 100% yes and guess where we are going tonight? That park.

There will be no "gee kinda wanted to go to EPCOT tonight" in the old days and wait 100 minutes for everything. "Now I'm stuck with DHS and no waits, bummer".

What I'm saying is, give me 5 minutes and I will plan 10 days of FP+, and everyone will gladly conform on arrival. Throw in the fact that you can make changes the week/day/hour before if you want-who really cares?

We have been down maybe 30 times, the kids are 21 and older and are more night owls except for golf and fishing-they do get up for that.

We also escape winter, therefore we enjoy swimming/sun/beach/SAB stuff.

Headliners are still great, but waiting is not desired, and skipping them has become the norm.

Trips are better than ever though, wonderful family time, dining, drinks, night shows-closing parks in a great Disney atmosphere.

Now all of sudden, the only missing link has now been connected. Headliners are back on the table-just click reserve on a phone or pc? No more going the the park first, walking to the ride and "maybe" coming back 9 hours later for the ride, if available at all.

Your trips sound amazing. We are definitely at the no waiting stage. Perhaps we will start using fantasies more in the evenings. We tend to rope drop. We will relax in the afternoon and might return to the parks for the evening.

 

[dizfan]

We had FP+ booked from home, but often changed them as the day went on.
We liked it much better than traditional FPs because of the flexibility.

We like to park hop and FP+ is significantly better for that than FPs.

Give me FP+ any day over traditional FPs. Finally able to stroll the parks at a more leisurely pace instead of running from one end of the park to another just to get FPs and then come back at the FP window. (Maybe I'm jaded because I was always the one taking everyone's tickets to get FPs).

 

[DebbieB]

I used MB and FP+ in November, loved it! I love being able to schedule fastpasses any time of the day in advance. On my arrival day, I didn't land until around noon, so I was able to schedule 3 fastpasses for the evening. I changed one of my days from Epcot to MK with no problem. I even changed my ride choices the night before. Can't wait for 7 nights in May! I'm hopeful they will add more options like park hopping but there's nothing that would make me go to Universal.

 

[Sammie]

I used MB and FP+ in November, loved it! I love being able to schedule fastpasses any time of the day in advance. On my arrival day, I didn't land until around noon, so I was able to schedule 3 fastpasses for the evening. I changed one of my days from Epcot to MK with no problem. I even changed my ride choices the night before. Can't wait for 7 nights in May! I'm hopeful they will add more options like park hopping but there's nothing that would make me go to Universal.

Everyone I have talked to, that is working with the project, says it will not be limited to one park. Very possible during peak times, it could be, just as tiers.

But I see this as a program that will change due to crowd levels and seasons.

 

[tjkraz]

(Maybe I'm jaded because I was always the one taking everyone's tickets to get FPs).

EXACTLY! That was me, too! Even though we've been to the parks dozens of times and there really weren't any "must-dos" on our trips, there was always this dark cloud hanging over our days. Everyone felt the need to hurry out the door as early as possible, out of fear that our FP return times were slipping later and later into the day with every passing moment.

Once in the park, I was the guy criss-crossing the park all day to get FastPasses for the entire group. It pulled me away from the group, put me into that aggressive planning mode, and wore me out faster from all of the extra walking.

Now we can plan our favorite attractions in advance--at times which are better suited to a more laid-back arrival--and just fill-in with whatever rides have short standby waits.

December was our first experience with FP+ and it worked great. Aside from one return trip to Tomorrowland, necessitated by some Space Mountain downtime, our day at the MK was one leisurely circuit around the park.

Worked even better at DHS. Did RnR and ToT back-to-back...filled in with a few other Standby attractions...then Star Tours FP+ to end the visit. Only downside is that FP+ turned DHS from a half-day park into a 3.5 hour park.

 

[yitbos96bb]

That's a valid point on the no show. If you are taking CCs with all ADRs you should be able to find the multi-booked Dessie's at the same time and prevent that. Yes, it isn't fool proof but it's going to catch a good number if them.

The cancellation policy is an overreaction to the issue

We used the Magic Bands in November for a short, four day, adults only trip. Not a huge fan. The first time we used them, our credit limit had been set to 0 and our server chased us through the Animal Kingdom in order to have us come back and settle our bill. I felt bad for him. That required a repeat visit to the front desk to sort it our (15 min).

When we checked in a second time for our split stay, my husband's band was malfunctioning (40 min to check in after checking in online).

I didn't mind fast pass plus, although, the system does have a tendency to erase my fastpasses. I am strongly opposed to the cancellation fee on dining. I think it should strictly be a no show fee. I understand this is because of abuse of the system.

We are going for twelve days in a few days. Planning a family trip for that much time is a real pain now. I don't like trying to predict where we will be. The system is very slow and booking fastpasses for twelve days is cumbersome. Again, the system keeps erasing my passes or kicks me out halfway through my work.

My Disney trips are a pain right now and that saddens me. For the first time in many years, we are not renewing our Annual Passes.

 

[abdgeek]

We were debating between WDW and Universal for an upcoming trip, and frankly, with the hassle of the new fast passes and magic bands, we've just decided to go to Universal and some waterparks instead.

I can get a 2 day ticket with one free day for the fraction of the cost of a WDW ticket, and then also add express pass. So much easier.

We'll also skip most of Disney dining as well, maybe hitting two spots, because I think the credit card reservation they require is CRAP and I hate it.

If you're interested in Universal, make sure you actually go through the process online of clicking on everything and purchasing the tickets while adding Express Pass(just don't pay for them) before you decide if Universal is cheaper. I was going to go to Universal during my two week stay at WDW last summer, but decided against it. I too saw the web deal, but when I went in to actually get one park hopper ticket to Universal and IOA with express pass the cost was unreal. I want to say it was about $2-300 dollars for one person for two days and I was going during a peak time so the express pass cost more. Needless to say, I didn't go and just used my AP to go to WDW.

I do still want to go to Universal, but would never do it without express pass which you get for free if you stay on their property. Unfortunately, I'm a WDW geek, so that will never happen.

 

[DVCJones]

Also 99% sure we are doing the same thing. We buy 10 day no exp hopper passes. We still have 8 days left on two tickets and two days left on two tickets. I normally would buy two new tickets so we can visit the parks our usual four days. BUT the whole FP+ does not work with my park hopping family. The tiered reservation also don't appeal to my family. Instead, We will visit the Disney parks for two days and buy tickets w/ front of the line passed to Universal for the rest of our trip. I just don't want to commit to buying more hopper passes under the current FP+ system. I will wait to see what happens. I still a little disappointed that I paid for and will still have 6 days of hopper tickets that aren't really going to work for our family anymore.

Count me in as new disappointed Disney customer.

 

[tjkraz]

I do still want to go to Universal, but would never do it without express pass which you get for free if you stay on their property. Unfortunately, I'm a WDW geek, so that will never happen.

Disney "magic" aside, Universal's hotels are actually quite a bit nicer than any you'll find at WDW. They are run by Loews, which operates a number of very nice hotels around the country. A group I'm affiliated with used to have a convention agreement with Loews so I've stayed at several of their resorts.

The differences are pretty apparent. Better build quality structurally, nicer in-room amenities, very friendly and helpful staff.

But that said, the economics of a Universal stay can be tough to justify for a WDW fan. Whether you're using MYW tickets or APs, it costs a lot more to head to Universal for even a day or two. Once you get past 4 days, Disney MYW tickets only cost $8-10 for each additional park day. Meanwhile a 2-day Universal hopper starts around $150 per person. So 2 extra days at WDW is $20...2 days at Universal is $150. And that's before the Express Pass. Adds up quickly if you have a family of 3...4...5...

If you're a pass holder, staying at WDW costs nothing extra.

Our only family stay at Universal was about 5 years ago after a Disney cruise. We didn't visit WDW that trip. Had a couple extra days in town and spent one night at Royal Pacific with 2 days at the US parks.

I know the US parks have changed a lot since we visited but I wasn't a big fan after our visit. They have LOT of simulator rides, which my wife doesn't like. They have a good number of water rides, which we completely avoided on cool February days. Some of the attractions are very fun but "Men In Black", "Jurassic Park" and "The Mummy" just aren't themes that compel us to return.

 

[abdgeek]

Disney "magic" aside, Universal's hotels are actually quite a bit nicer than any you'll find at WDW. They are run by Loews, which operates a number of very nice hotels around the country. A group I'm affiliated with used to have a convention agreement with Loews so I've stayed at several of their resorts.

The differences are pretty apparent. Better build quality structurally, nicer in-room amenities, very friendly and helpful staff.

But that said, the economics of a Universal stay can be tough to justify for a WDW fan. Whether you're using MYW tickets or APs, it costs a lot more to head to Universal for even a day or two. Once you get past 4 days, Disney MYW tickets only cost $8-10 for each additional park day. Meanwhile a 2-day Universal hopper starts around $150 per person. So 2 extra days at WDW is $20...2 days at Universal is $150. And that's before the Express Pass. Adds up quickly if you have a family of 3...4...5...

If you're a pass holder, staying at WDW costs nothing extra.

Our only family stay at Universal was about 5 years ago after a Disney cruise. We didn't visit WDW that trip. Had a couple extra days in town and spent one night at Royal Pacific with 2 days at the US parks.

I know the US parks have changed a lot since we visited but I wasn't a big fan after our visit. They have LOT of simulator rides, which my wife doesn't like. They have a good number of water rides, which we completely avoided on cool February days. Some of the attractions are very fun but "Men In Black", "Jurassic Park" and "The Mummy" just aren't themes that compel us to return.

You're right, it does add up fast. I just went back in and priced the two day park hopper w/ express pass and it's $300 for two days at Universal. The express pass alone is $155 during peak times. I'm not an extreme ride fan, so I wouldn't even ride most of the rides just some of the simulators. However, I really wanted to see Harry Potter World since I read all the books. Oh well, maybe someday!

 

[lisaviolet]

The thing is, everybody is at a different point in life regarding the subject.

Picture this-we close Mk at 3AM. We get up at BCV say 11AM-walk out and grab a chair at SAB or the beach. Grab lunch HH and an umbrella drink.

Now somebody walks by and asked if we want QTY 10 5PM FP's for......._________ (fill in any headliner you want) seriously if it's a headliner we will be overjoyed to take it.

TSM heck yea, TOT/RNR/EE/Soarin/TT/SM/SM/BTMRR-IT DOESN'T MATTER-that's where we will go. Now tell me you have 3 in succession in the same park? Are you kidding me? 100% yes and guess where we are going tonight? That park.

There will be no "gee kinda wanted to go to EPCOT tonight" in the old days and wait 100 minutes for everything. "Now I'm stuck with DHS and no waits, bummer".

What I'm saying is, give me 5 minutes and I will plan 10 days of FP+, and everyone will gladly conform on arrival. Throw in the fact that you can make changes the week/day/hour before if you want-who really cares?

We have been down maybe 30 times, the kids are 21 and older and are more night owls except for golf and fishing-they do get up for that.

We also escape winter, therefore we enjoy swimming/sun/beach/SAB stuff.

Headliners are still great, but waiting is not desired, and skipping them has become the norm.

Trips are better than ever though, wonderful family time, dining, drinks, night shows-closing parks in a great Disney atmosphere.

Now all of sudden, the only missing link has now been connected. Headliners are back on the table-just click reserve on a phone or pc? No more going the the park first, walking to the ride and "maybe" coming back 9 hours later for the ride, if available at all.

This is exactly how I do WDW. Well not the fishing, unfortunately. But the flow. Live for late nights too. So excited for 3 AM.

So me too on the bold.

 

[dizzneebabe]

Everyone is going to have different opinions about this and many people object to change. Period.

We like the MBs and the FP+ system, having used it three times so far (Oct, Nov and last weekend for the marathon weekend).

It's great not having to rush out the door in the morning (unless we want to) for fear of not getting a FP at the big headliners! Typically, when we went to a park, DH would race off to get FPs for one ride while we waited for him at another. The anxiety he felt in hurrying and I felt in waiting (as the queue filled up) was exhausting!!! The last few trips have been more relaxing, in that aspect!

If we don't like a time, we can change it on the fly. Last weekend, with a party of 8, I was able to change all our FP+ times for MK to later in the day FROM THE BUS, so we could go to AK in the morning and ride a couple of favorites and then have lunch. Did we ride EVERYTHING at each park? No...but that wasn't the goal. We are not a "one in every 5 year" visitor, so our style of park touring IS different than some. We enjoy just being there!


What I would like to see in the future is the ability to still pull a FP while at a park, if there was availability and add it to our MB's using the app. That would really optimize our time.

Just my two cents!

 

[crisi]

On our upcoming cruise, we decided to stay at the Hard Rock hotel instead of Disney. Their Express pass system really can't be beat. Obviously we love Disney since we are DVC members but are finding ourselves enticed by Universal's system.

We are doing the same, but for a variety of reasons.

1. The kids like Universal better, they are at that age.
2. My husband missed our Universal trip because his brother had passed away that summer and he wasn't up to it, so we went without him
3. We are coming back from a cruise and just doing a quick trip - Universal is a quick trip (especially if we stay at Universal) - Disney is too big to bother with for two days.

but....

4. I'm not ready for the learning curve of the new systems. I'm "too old for this......" I was particularly not ready to commit to being a guinea pig for the first six months or year of release - I've done too many releases of systems and processes myself to risk my own vacation on Disney's IT department.

 

[Maximus68]

Why are you in a Disney app? Go to a Universal app and say how wonderful it is there

 

[jodifla]

Why are you in a Disney app? Go to a Universal app and say how wonderful it is there

I'm a longtime WDW fan and DVC member, and I'll be staying at DVC this trip. But for this trip, given all the FP plus and Magic Bands and logging in to MDE, it sounds easier to just go to Universal.

 

[jodifla]

We are doing the same, but for a variety of reasons.

1. The kids like Universal better, they are at that age.
2. My husband missed our Universal trip because his brother had passed away that summer and he wasn't up to it, so we went without him
3. We are coming back from a cruise and just doing a quick trip - Universal is a quick trip (especially if we stay at Universal) - Disney is too big to bother with for two days.

but....

4. I'm not ready for the learning curve of the new systems. I'm "too old for this......" I was particularly not ready to commit to being a guinea pig for the first six months or year of release - I've done too many releases of systems and processes myself to risk my own vacation on Disney's IT department.

Yes, No. 4 is definitely where I'm at right now.

 

[pinkerbell]

We were debating between WDW and Universal for an upcoming trip, and frankly, with the hassle of the new fast passes and magic bands, we've just decided to go to Universal and some waterparks instead.

I can get a 2 day ticket with one free day for the fraction of the cost of a WDW ticket, and then also add express pass. So much easier.

We'll also skip most of Disney dining as well, maybe hitting two spots, because I think the credit card reservation they require is CRAP and I hate it.

just got back Tuesday from 3 days at each Disney (swan and dolphin for a conference) and Universal (Royal Pacific resort) - Save yourself a lot of lost vacation time, $$$ and aggravation - GO TO UNIVERSAL!
Stay on property and get the Express Pass - you wont regret it! Hope I never go to disney again - the most unmagical place on earth. On day 4 we woke up and I siad guess were where goijng today kids to my 8 and 10 YO- DD 10 said "Guest Services" that tells you how our 3 previous days were!

We did not and will not renew our Disney AP's any time soon

 

[thepops]

You're right, it does add up fast. I just went back in and priced the two day park hopper w/ express pass and it's $300 for two days at Universal. The express pass alone is $155 during peak times. I'm not an extreme ride fan, so I wouldn't even ride most of the rides just some of the simulators. However, I really wanted to see Harry Potter World since I read all the books. Oh well, maybe someday!

The one way to "beat" that is to stay at one of the onsite Universal hotels for one night. Depending on how many you have in a room (you can squeeze 5), it may be cheaper than buying the express pass. Since you are an onsite guest you get the unlimited express pass for the day of check in and check out, so a 1 nite stay gets you 2 days of express pass. On those peak seasons it can tip the $ scale quickly since the pass cost changes depending on projected park attendance.
Also being an onsite guest gets you into HPW an hour before the regular folks. Even the Express pass won't do that. (and HPW isn't on the express list of attractions as I remember).