Shouldn't DVC members get a FL res. discount???

[BWVDee]

Originally posted by Chuck S
That explains a lot about the last Presidential election.

Sorry, I should have clarified that. Any write in ballots I have ever received have been for local/state elections dealing with issues, costs, etc., pertaining to the community/surrounding areas of where my FL home is located. Which is the way it should be. I have a vested interest in both communities where I own a home, pay real estate taxes etc. and deserve a say in the way the commuinity is run and where my taxpayer's money is spent.
I know there was a big problem with the write in ballots for the last presidential election in FL; but believe me, we did not get one. Nope, only voted in one state for that one! LOL!

 

[Pa@okw95]

Leasing points for X years hardly qualifies us as property owners. I know we have deeds but my granddaughter has dolls with birth certificates which amounts to about the same,strickly a cute maneuver by Disney so that we would have to pay the taxes. We are point leasers nothing more. At any rate even if we were true land owners that still does not mean we are residents of the state. I believe we can not even count the time we stay at DVC toward any time situation for FL residents anyway.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by BWVDee
Believe it or not, technically we can vote in both states. I have received write in ballots quite a few times from FL.

Here are the statues pertaining to residency. While I don't doubt you've gotten absentee voting forms, to be a resident you have to state that FL is your primary residence. There is no time limit and I guess you could change your residency every 6 months if the other state allowed it. If you are a resident, you are also required to get a FL DL within 30 days. FL previously required you to surrender your other DL if you applied but I don't think they do that any more, not sure though. But it is possible to meet the requirements of residency in Disney's eyes without being a true legal resident of the state.

That explains a lot about the last Presidential election.

Like why it was even close.

 

[BWVDee]

Originally posted by Dean
Here are the statues pertaining to residency. While I don't doubt you've gotten absentee voting forms, to be a resident you have to state that FL is your primary residence. There is no time limit and I guess you could change your residency every 6 months if the other state allowed it. If you are a resident, you are also required to get a FL DL within 30 days. FL previously required you to surrender your other DL if you applied but I don't think they do that any more, not sure though. But it is possible to meet the requirements of residency in Disney's eyes without being a true legal resident of the state. Like why it was even close.

Thank you for the link. I do not have time right now to thoroughly read the whole page but from skimming it, it appears that #4 applies to the many thousands of dual state residents that are homeowners and tax payers in FL. And are very much considered dual state residents, with the state of FL as one of their residences.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by BWVDee
Thank you for the link. I do not have time right now to thoroughly read the whole page but from skimming it, it appears that #4 applies to the many thousands of dual state residents that are homeowners and tax payers in FL. And are very much considered dual state residents, with the state of FL as one of their residences.

I'll look around some more. That info actually applies to homestead exemptions it appears. I can't believe one can legally be a resident of two states at one time. Just remember that meeting the requirements for being a resident doesn't make you one. If you are legally a resident of FL, you must get a FL DL and change your tags over, by law.

 

[BWVDee]

Whether you believe it or not, it is true. You are also incorrect on the DL issue. FL only DL are issued to those that spend the year spent between FL and another state and wish to keep a valid DL in the other state. As far as the car tags, this is only changed if the car is registered in FL and carries FL insurance. I have had my cars registered in FL at times and in NJ at times. Currently all cars are registered in NJ due to the fact that I have auto insurance under my employer which is a NJ based organization.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by BWVDee
Whether you believe it or not, it is true. You are also incorrect on the DL issue. FL only DL are issued to those that spend the year spent between FL and another state and wish to keep a valid DL in the other state. As far as the car tags, this is only changed if the car is registered in FL and carries FL insurance. I have had my cars registered in FL at times and in NJ at times. Currently all cars are registered in NJ due to the fact that I have auto insurance under my employer which is a NJ based organization.

You may be correct but there is a requirement that says if you're a legal resident of the state, you must change your tag and car registration within 30 days. I'd guess your are not technically a legal resident of two states even though you are functioning as one. It's like Disney, just because they have rules, doesn't mean they follow them very well.

 

[BWVDee]

But the point you are missing is, with a FL only DL it is not necessary to turn in your old DL, register your car in FL, have FL tags etc. FL only DL's were created for the many thousands of people that are homeowners and taxpayers in FL and that reside part of the yr in their FL homes and part of the year in their homes in a different state. There are literally thousands of people that fall into this category who are homeowners in FL. and all are considered legal FL residents. This is how the term "snowbirds" evolved.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by BWVDee
But the point you are missing is, with a FL only DL it is not necessary to turn in your old DL, register your car in FL, have FL tags etc. FL only DL's were created for the many thousands of people that are homeowners and taxpayers in FL and that reside part of the yr in their FL homes and part of the year in their homes in a different state. There are literally thousands of people that fall into this category who are homeowners in FL. and all are considered legal FL residents. This is how the term "snowbirds" evolved.

No, I didn't miss that. A FL only DL does not make you a resident. And Disney's official policy, as I've been told before, is it does not by itself get you discounts, though they violate it from time to time. Though with a tax bill or utility bill, you can bypass this issue. Still, getting the discounts does not make you a resident even if they are geared for residents. And I would not be surprised if they let you register to vote without realizing you weren't legally a resident. My point was more from a legal aspect or residency. Your situation would seem to me to be the equivilent of a common law marriage where you're sort of a resident but not really.

 

[BigDisneyKids]

Not to add fuel to this fire, I actually did read my legaleze, but what does Florida do with our annual property tax assessment anyway?

-Is it to support the local community?
-Does it go to the local infrastructure?
-Or is it just another tax that we pay without questioning?

Bottom line is that Disney's got us by the tail. We bought into THEIR world, which incidently they have their own government according to Florida statute.

They really don't care if we pay the price or not, because someone else will. And besides, they've already got out money...:rolleyes

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by BigDisneyKids
Not to add fuel to this fire, I actually did read my legaleze, but what does Florida do with our annual property tax assessment anyway?

-Is it to support the local community?
-Does it go to the local infrastructure?
-Or is it just another tax that we pay without questioning?

Bottom line is that Disney's got us by the tail. We bought into THEIR world, which incidently they have their own government according to Florida statute.

They really don't care if we pay the price or not, because someone else will. And besides, they've already got out money...:rolleyes

The tax is just that. It goes to the government, I think just the county. I don't follow the point as anyone who owns anything will pay taxes no matter what state it's in. Now if you asked about income taxes, that would be interesting. As one who was a legal resident of more than one state would be at risk for certain taxes from ALL states they were a resident. FL taxes what you have saved regardless of when you got it. It's called an intangeable tax and if you have non tax deffered savings, you pay every year on the same dollars. It's not a huge tax but over the long haul it adds up and is a deterent to having non tax deffered retirment or similar savings.

 

[BWVDee]

Originally posted by Dean
No, I didn't miss that. A FL only DL does not make you a resident. And Disney's official policy, as I've been told before, is it does not by itself get you discounts, though they violate it from time to time. Though with a tax bill or utility bill, you can bypass this issue. Still, getting the discounts does not make you a resident even if they are geared for residents. And I would not be surprised if they let you register to vote without realizing you weren't legally a resident. My point was more from a legal aspect or residency. Your situation would seem to me to be the equivilent of a common law marriage where you're sort of a resident but not really.

Just wondering, but how would you classify someone that lives 1/2 of the year in the house they own and pay taxes etc on which is located in FL? Do you consider them tourists/visitors in FL for the 6 months or more that they reside in their own homes in FL, their children attend the local school system, the family is very much a part of the community, etc???
It is really immaterial to anything, what YOU consider correct/legal/believable etc., since it is, what it is; regardless of your opinion. But, I am just curious.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by BWVDee
Just wondering, but how would you classify someone that lives 1/2 of the year in the house they own and pay taxes etc on which is located in FL? Do you consider them tourists/visitors in FL for the 6 months or more that they reside in their own homes in FL?
It is really immaterial to anything, what YOU consider correct/legal/believable etc., since it is, what it is; regardless of your opinion. But, I am just curious.

Agreed, my opinion doesn't mean much. The question is what is the legal definition and can one get the discounts, those are really two different things. Legal residency can be different than where you reside at the moment no matter how long you are there. For example, members of the military remain residents of where they were residents at the time of entry on active duty. In some cases they can change if they meet other criteria but usually not. OTOH, paying taxes, living for 6 months, and getting discounts does not make one a resident. I guess I'm looking at this as if one were in a court case and the court had to decide where one was a resident. I can bet they would not define one as a resident of two states at the same time. Heres are the hunting and fishing requirements:

Resident: For the purpose of fishing in Florida, a person is a resident if he or she has lived in Florida for six continuous months prior to applying for licenses and who has an intent to continue to reside in Florida and claim Florida as his or her primary residence. Active military personnel stationed in Florida, including their spouses and dependent children residing in the household, are considered residents when purchasing fishing licenses.

But I guess if one were to proclaim to be a resident in each state, there's no real way for each state to know on a consistent basis. That's different than each state specifically saying it's OK to be a resident in two states at the SAME TIME. I'd like to see that in writing.

 

[BWVDee]

I think we just have to agree to disagree on this one. I can only speak from my experiences.
But to coin a pharse from my kids: "Peace, out!"
Also just had to mention.......You bringing up an active military person's status is even funnier to this discussion. DS is active military stationed in a state other than NJ or FL!!! He is really mixed up as far as residency goes. LOL!

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by BWVDee
I think we just have to agree to disagree on this one. I can only speak from my experiences.
But to coin a pharse from my kids: "Peace, out!"
Also just had to mention.......You bringing up an active military person's status is even funnier to this discussion. DS is active military stationed in a state other than NJ or FL!!! He is really mixed up as far as residency goes. LOL!

That's cool. Spent 6.5 years active duty including 3 years in HI plus a time for Desert Storm. Glad I didn't have to go this time around. I know the local supervisor of elections well, will have to ask his opinion when I see him.

 

[Dean]

I've polled several lawyers regarding the residency issue. Every single one has said the same thing and exactly what I thought. It is NOT possible to be a legal resident of more than 1 state at a time. It is easy to change residence for most states other than in state tuition discounts. They also stated as I expected, that there was no real enforcement mechanism making it possible but not legal to vote in more than one state. That's especially true in states where it's easy to register to vote as FL has the Motor Voter registration. It's actually illegal to vote in the same election more than once regardless of where. So as I stated earlier, one cannot be a legal resident of two states at one time. But as I also tried to convey, there is no real enforcement mechanism making it possible for it to seem like one is a resident of more than one state.

And to remind everyone that Disney's official policy, as I've been told, is to not allow discounts on the basis of a FL only DL alone. Though I'm sure they will give the discount to one who has a utility bill or similar with their name and a FL street address and I'm sure they have not followed their rules consistently which is typical for Disney.

They also said that IF there was a way to have dual residency, one would be liable for a tax bill from both states subject to the rules of those states. For Florida, that usually means you hear nothing from them for 10 years then they ask you to file for the entire 10 years plus interest and penaties. And that includes paying on college funds for the kids and non tax deferred retirement savings on the FULL principle EVERY YEAR, not just that years earnings. So while the yearly tax is manageable, you pay taxes on the same dollars year after year.

 

[BWVDee]

Originally posted by Dean
I've polled several lawyers regarding the residency issue. Every single one has said the same thing and exactly what I thought. It is NOT possible to be a legal resident of more than 1 state at a time. It is easy to change residence for most states other than in state tuition discounts. They also stated as I expected, that there was no real enforcement mechanism making it possible but not legal to vote in more than one state. That's especially true in states where it's easy to register to vote as FL has the Motor Voter registration. It's actually illegal to vote in the same election more than once regardless of where. So as I stated earlier, one cannot be a legal resident of two states at one time. But as I also tried to convey, there is no real enforcement mechanism making it possible for it to seem like one is a resident of more than one state.

And to remind everyone that Disney's official policy, as I've been told, is to not allow discounts on the basis of a FL only DL alone. Though I'm sure they will give the discount to one who has a utility bill or similar with their name and a FL street address and I'm sure they have not followed their rules consistently which is typical for Disney.

They also said that IF there was a way to have dual residency, one would be liable for a tax bill from both states subject to the rules of those states. For Florida, that usually means you hear nothing from them for 10 years then they ask you to file for the entire 10 years plus interest and penaties. And that includes paying on college funds for the kids and non tax deferred retirement savings on the FULL principle EVERY YEAR, not just that years earnings. So while the yearly tax is manageable, you pay taxes on the same dollars year after year.

OK, ..................whatever you say!!
I am done arguing with you, was done with that last week,
I could respond to each paragraph and cite where you are wrong, the exceptions, differences etc, but this thread lost it's steam last week, well before you revived it.
So again I will say, as I said last week: Peace Out!

 

[Dean]

I wanted to resurrect this thread because there was a news report last week on the radio talking about people illegally registered to vote in more than one state. They were talking to someone in the government about this issue. The official went on to talk about how easy it was to register in more than one state, how it was illegal but that they didn't have a good way to know who had done so.

 

[northerngirl]

Originally posted by raparker13
Even if you owned property outright in FL, that doesn't make you a resident, unless you live there. Owning property and residency are two different things.

Now, whether Disney should offer a DVC discount for AP, is a different matter. I wish they would.

Actually, tht is not quite true. I can attest to that. My DH and I are DVC owners however we also own property in Florida (vacation/rental property). Since we own the land,pay property taxes, and utilities, we are considered Florida residents by Disney's terms. I am very upfront with them and tell them we are Canadians but own property down in Florida & all they say is that we have to provide copies of our Florida utility bills upon checkin if we are staying at a resort or if we are using any other Florida resident discounts at DW.

 

[MOMO2DK]

I think we owners should get a discount on APs. Thats my opinion. We own, we deserve discounts. I'll be in first in line when DVC owners get discounted APs.