Should BCS System be abolished for Playoff system

CarlaKay

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One of the items that President Elect Obama mentioned on his Sixty Minutes interview a couple of weeks ago was the adoption of a playoff system and getting rid of the BCS. After the Longhorns got abused this week, I think that this will be a very popular position and it seems that others agree http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/02/1696506.aspx
Lovers of the University of Texas Longhorns were outraged to learn over the weekend that their team, despite an identical 11-1 record with top-rated Oklahoma -- and a win OVER the Sooners to boot -- was ranked below them in the BCS list, giving Oklahoma a ticket to the Big 12 Championship and a likely shot at the national title game. And undefeated Boise State could lose a bowl game slot to any one of a handful of teams with lower standing in polls from the AP, ESPN, and even the BCS itself.

So as the burnt-orange crowd in Austin cheers Obama's position on the matter, a few players in Washington are noticing too. Obama's pigskin prescription was music to the ears of Rep. Neil Abercrombie (D-HI) who introduced legislation earlier this year to call for a DOJ investigation of the BCS system. His argument – and that of cosponsors Lynn Westmoreland (R-GA), Jim Matheson (D-UT) and Mike Simpson (R-ID) – is that the current bowl system, besides being unfairly based on computer models, actually violates the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890 by depriving schools in leagues not eligible for an automatic BCS slot of the financial benefits of a bowl game. The fate that could befall the unfortunate Boise State Broncos, for example, Abercrombie calls a clear case of such “restraint of trade.”

Upon hearing of Obama’s like-mindedness about the benefits of a straight playoff system, Abercrombie penned a letter to the President-elect to point him to the measure, H.Res. 1120, which has languished after being referred to the Judiciary Committee in April.

Perhaps, the letter suggests, the Commander-in-Chief’s attention to the matter could help move the chains.

“With the prestige of the Presidency and vigorous pursuit by the Department of Justice in support of fairness and equity,” it reads, “we are certain the BCS will be persuaded to resolve the issues involved to the benefit of the nation’s colleges and their fans.”
The BCS must go. Everyother major sport has a playoff system. I am not sure if the use of the antitrust laws is the best way to get rid of the BCS but anything is better than the existing system.

I believe that Texas may actually be competitive in 2012 if President Elect Obama is successful in getting a playoff system established (of course the growth of the hispanic voting block in Texas will also help make Texas a potential swing state in 2012). Texans take college football very seriously.
 
Even with Playoffs... Will everyone agree with the 8(or other) teams selected???


These are STUDENTS, adding 3 weeks(or more) to their schedule is not in their best interest.

Contending schools already get plenty of money from football, it will not benefit the students in any way.
 
YES, because I'm tired of hearing DH rant on and on about it.

:confused3
 
Even with Playoffs... Will everyone agree with the 8(or other) teams selected???


These are STUDENTS, adding 3 weeks(or more) to their schedule is not in their best interest.

Contending schools already get plenty of money from football, it will not benefit the students in any way.

Why is that not the case with the big dance in Basketball....

I dont like a computer picking Bowl matchups....I dont like the BCS as it stands but i dont have an answer to a fix....Like PP said if its an 8 team playoff..what about team 9 and 10...who picks the 8...I like the bowl season but there is too much controversy with the matchups and the champion....

It would be fun to see the #8 team run the table and win a championship..

I have issue with the 65 pick for march madness....the issue I have is the tourney winners getting automatic Bids...Lets say a team wins there conference tourney in a small conference but that team only won a game or 2 during the season, they got hot for the tourney and kept the team that won 20- 25 games on the season out of the big dance....to me your season should determine your place in the tourney not 3 or 4 games at the end of the year....JMHO
 

One of the items that President Elect Obama mentioned on his Sixty Minutes interview a couple of weeks ago was the adoption of a playoff system and getting rid of the BCS. After the Longhorns got abused this week, I think that this will be a very popular position and it seems that others agree http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/02/1696506.aspxThe BCS must go. Everyother major sport has a playoff system. I am not sure if the use of the antitrust laws is the best way to get rid of the BCS but anything is better than the existing system.

I believe that Texas may actually be competitive in 2012 if President Elect Obama is successful in getting a playoff system established (of course the growth of the hispanic voting block in Texas will also help make Texas a potential swing state in 2012). Texans take college football very seriously.


Glad to know I was not the only person upset by this policy. Perhaps in the future they will start having a playoff game when this type of situation arises again. If it were in place now, I guess texas would just have to win over Oklahoma again.
 
Here's an interesting article, weighing some of the pros and cons as well as exploring some of the possible playoff systems.

It sounds great until you start talking about all the details - there are a lot of obstacles!

As a parent of a college student & a university grad, I do have concerns on a playoff system on the students (which include the players). And depending on the number of teams chosen for a playoff - it might not even help teams like Texas and Boise State which have felt so unfairly treated this year under the current system.

http://www.hereticalideas.com/2008/11/whats-the-best-playoff-system-for-college-football/

What’s the Best Playoff System For College Football?
By Jon Stonger
Every college football fan, including Barack Obama, agrees that a playoff system for college football is a must. But what’s the best playoff system?

November 20, 2008 ShareThisBuzz up!Recently, President-elect Barack Obama stated that he favors a playoff to determine the champion in college football. Given the future President’s likely preoccupation with saving the country from a financial ruin, environmental catastrophe and terrorist attack, having the time to spend unraveling the BCS mess in college football will not be his first priority. Even if, as it seemed in the interview, Obama’s comments were light remarks made off the cuff rather than serious policy proposals, a presidential mention of a playoff gives us all the excuse we need to discuss it.


Image Credit: Jamie L. WilliamsOne things that is certain is that there has been progress in the last decade. In 1994, Penn State and Nebraska both finished undefeated and won their bowl games. Nebraska won the National Championship, Penn State did not. In 1997, a similar situation occurred, and Michigan and Nebraska split the title. These controversies caused the creation of the Bowl Championship Series, which is an agreement between the four major bowls (Rose, Sugar, Fiesta, and Orange) to rotate a game between the #1 and #2 ranked team to decide a champion.

The system is an improvement. The classic game between USC and Texas in 2005 would not have occurred without the BCS.

Still, there is controversy. If there are three undefeated teams, one of them is left out (Auburn 2004). If several teams finish with one loss, then there is no objective way to determine who should play for the title (USC, LSU, and Oklahoma 2003). This year, there is a chance of several teams (Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Florida, Alabama, USC, Penn State) all finishing with one loss, and that doesn’t even include the teams from smaller conferences.

A playoff system has the advantage of deciding a winner on the field. No more complaining about polls, or complicated formulas about who-beat-who. Just football, with the winner getting the title.

There are a variety of possible playoff configurations, each with advantages and flaws.

The 8 Team Playoff

In this proposal, which President-elect Obama supported in his interview with 60 Minutes, the top 8 teams play a 3-round tournament to decide a champion. There are two possible methods to determine which teams get in the tournament. One proposal is to take the 6 conference champions from the current BCS conferences (PAC 10, Big 10, Big 12, ACC, SEC, and Big East) and have two wild cards.

The advantage of having only 8 teams is that you only need three rounds, or seven games total, to determine a winner. This prevents the season from dragging on any longer, since some of the playoff games could be played in December, with the championship in January.

The disadvantage of using the conference champions is that legitimate title contenders could be left out, while some mediocre teams will get in. For example, in 2007, there would have been only two wild card slots for 10-2 Georgia, 10-2 Missouri (whom it is always acceptable to exclude), 11-1 Kansas, and 12-0 Hawaii.

This year could be even worse. The current ACC leaders are 7-3 Miami and Maryland. The Big East leader is 8-2 Cincinnati. 7-3 Oregon State has the lead by tiebreaker in the PAC 10. Under this proposal, Maryland/Miami, Cincinnati, and Oregon State would all get into the playoffs. This would leave only 2 wildcards among several powerful teams. If Oklahoma beats Texas Tech and Florida beats Alabama, there would be USC, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Texas, Alabama, all with one loss, and Utah and Boise State, with no losses, competing for 2 playoff spots and the right to demolish the ACC and Big East Champions.

This has led some to suggest that the BCS standings be used to place the top 8 teams, regardless of conference. This does a better job of selecting quality teams, but it weakens the role of the conference. The importance of a conference title derives much of its prestige from an automatic berth in a lucrative BCS bowl. If there are no conference tie-ins, then conference games would no longer have the suspense and impact that they do now. Plus, it would be hard to convince weaker conferences to join a playoff if conference champions don’t get an automatic berth.

It seems that 8 teams just aren’t enough.

The 16 Team Playoff

A sixteen team playoff does a better job of letting in all the qualified teams. One could have automatic berths for the 6 BCS conference champs, and then 10 at-large teams. Or, the Mountain West and WAC champion could get an automatic entry, and there could be 8 wild cards.

There are several disadvantage of this configuration as well. It adds only one more round but 8 more games to the tournament. The champion could play 12 regular season games, 1 conference championship, and then 4 playoff games for a total of 17, which is one more than the NFL regular season. Of course, this could be solved by shortening the regular season, and the extra games would certainly bring in more revenue.

In 2007, this system would have allowed 9-3 Florida, Illinois, Clemson, 10-3 Boston College and 10-4 Tennessee into the tournament, going by the BCS rankings of the remaining teams. This year, 9-2 Ohio State, Georgia, Missouri, Oklahoma State, Michigan State, and maybe even TCU could get in, based on current standings. All of these teams have been beaten badly by the teams above them, and I don’t know anyone who would claim that any of them should be legitimate national title contenders.

Given all this, it seems that 16 teams are probably too many.

The 12 Team Playoff — The Best Option

To make up for the weaknesses of the 8 and 16 team playoffs, there needs to be a system that rewards teams for winning their conference, and keeps the tradition and rivalry of conference play alive by automatically including the conference champ.

On the other hand, we need to allow every team with a legitimate claim to the national title a chance to prove it on the field.

By having a playoff with the 6 conference champions and 6 at-large slots, both of these goals can be accomplished. Furthermore, the top 4 conference champions would be further rewarded with a bye in the tournament.

In 2007, this would have meant that Ohio State, LSU, Virginia Tech and Oklahoma all got first round byes, due to their conference titles and high rankings. Georgia, Missouri, Kansas, Hawaii, Arizona State and Illinois would all have gotten in based on their rankings.

This year, depending on how the season plays out, it could be any of Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Utah, Boise St, USC, Alabama and Florida included as wild cards.

Twelve seems to be the right number to me. It lets the good teams in while keeping out some of the dross (unless you win the ACC or Big East- but that can’t be helped). The conference season would still be important since the champions have automatic bids and potential byes.
If Oklahoma beats Texas Tech on Saturday, there will be three teams in the Big 12 with one loss. Those three teams (Oklahoma, Texas Tech, and Texas) are among the best 6 or 7 teams in the entire country. Any playoff that excludes one of these teams is incomplete, inadequate, and unfair.

The only way to ensure that everyone with a claim gets to play is to take 12 teams.

There are other considerations for a tournament. For example, where would they be played?

Most tournaments mention a system of rotating games among the big bowls. This is probably fine for the later rounds, but I would love to see the first round games played on the college campuses. The environments around the country for a playoff game on campus would be incredible, and early December would mean we would get to watch games in the snow whenever teams like Ohio State or Penn State hosted.

There is also money. If the first, and maybe second, rounds are on campus, the stadiums will be sold out. If there was a game between, say, Utah and Florida scheduled for the first round at the Fiesta Bowl in Arizona, it would be hard for those fans to make the trip, knowing they might well have to travel to two or three more games on following weekends. By playing at home, it’s guaranteed the seats will be filled.

The playoff system might cause some loss of interest in some of the lower tier bowls, but is anyone really watching the 3rd place MAC team play the 8th place team in the Big 12? There would still be a draw for fans to travel to bowl games to watch their teams play, even if it would be overshadowed nationally by the playoffs. The bowls would continue to exist, and the majority of people who are not fans of the playing teams or incorrigible gamblers would continue to not watch them.

Obstacles to a Playoff

There are a variety of factors blocking a potential playoff in college football. The bowls all make millions of dollars in the current system, and accordingly, they worry about losing market share. The commissioners of the PAC 10 and Big 10 love the tradition of a Rose Bowl pitting the two conference champions against each other. These were the conferences that held out longest against the BCS format in the late 90s, and they’re not rushing to join a playoff system either.

The television networks also make gazillions of dollars on the current system, but of course they would also cash in on a playoff, so that might not be a big hurdle. However, there are athletic directors, conference commissioners, university presidents, bowl games, small conferences and large conferences, all of whom have a say (and the fans, who don’t). As Stewart Mandel of Sports Illustrated noted about establishing a playoff:


By the time you’re done reading this chapter, you will likely come to the conclusion that solving the current financial crisis or revamping health care will be a walk in the park compared to bringing a playoff to college football.

So to whoever next decides to wade into the morass of conflicting opinions and interests that surround a potential college football playoff: good luck. You’ll need it.
 
Why is that not the case with the big dance in Basketball....

Actually it is the case, and that is with 65 teams being selected. There are still teams with better records left out, and then there are teams that every one knows should not be there. You have upset fans and students all across the nation.

Imagine if only 8 teams could be invited to that tournament.

Due to the physical punishment involved with game of football, there really must be at least one week of rest in between games. Where as other sports might even be able to play two games in a single day.




Those in favor of a playoff... if playoff selections were chosen today which 8 teams would be in????

Think about it...
Would you automatically invite the major conference champions?
Would you invite 3 teams from one conference?
Would you invite a team based solely on the wins an losses regardless of who they have played throughout the year?
Would you invite Utah and/or Boise State?
ETC...

all of the above is what causes controversy with the BCS, and it would all still exist with playoffs.

Again I do not think that adding 3 weeks of football would benefit any of these student athletes, and selections would still be subject to endless debate.
 
Again I do not think that adding 3 weeks of football would benefit any of these student athletes, and selections would still be subject to endless debate.

The debate about keeping them out of class or adding weeks is the weakest of them all. The top Div 1 college football players are not students. They are football players playing in the only NFL minor league that exists. If the NFL had a real minor league system like baseball most of those players would go to the NFL minors straight out of high school just like all of the best high school baseball players do (college baseball is another step below minor league baseball and only those players not drafted straight out of high school by an MLB team actually go play at a college - in hopes they might be able to change someone's mind and get into the minors quickly). Most of those football players could care less about education (there are exceptions, but look at the list of majors when they scroll the players during games - 99% are in something like sports education - fallback to being a P.E. teacher if they don't make the NFL because they don't care about anything else, like real academics. Very rare to find someone like FSU's Myron Rolle who is now a Rhodes Scholar and a top football player. Caveat: this applies to the football power schools, not the academic schools that also have football teams like Notre Dame or Georgia Tech, etc.)

Every other college team or individual sport includes long playoffs that keep students out of classes - soccer, basketball, tennis, swimming, etc. Why is it that we only argue about one division of a single sport (Div 1 football) when the academics debate comes up? Div 2 and Div 3 football have playoffs - are those students less capable? Are those students all failing because of them? No. And neither would Div 1 players.

Div 1 football never has been and never will be about academics and as such should have no part in the determination of a champion. Should it? Sure. It's college - college should always be about learning first and foremost; but in function it is merely an NFL minor league system and as such can't be considered the same as a normal non-athlete going to college. If you are going to play the "they can't miss more time" card then you have to put a stop to ALL college playoffs - basketball, soccer, lacrosse, etc. Goose and gander. Pot and kettle.
 
What's wrong with simply having the conference winners make the playoffs?
 
Every other college team or individual sport includes long playoffs that keep students out of classes - soccer, basketball, tennis, swimming, etc. Why is it that we only argue about one division of a single sport (Div 1 football) when the academics debate comes up? Div 2 and Div 3 football have playoffs - are those students less capable? Are those students all failing because of them? No. And neither would Div 1 players.

EXACTLY - been my argument for years that it works for Div II/II, are those students different than DivI?

It is all about the $$
 
I don't really like the BCS but I abhor the idea of a playoff. Kids DO miss too much class at every level of sports. Only by forcing the Div. I schools to back off a bit can we hope to influence those down the line, as it were.
 
The debate about keeping them out of class or adding weeks is the weakest of them all. The top Div 1 college football players are not students. They are football players playing in the only NFL minor league that exists. If the NFL had a real minor league system like baseball most of those players would go to the NFL minors straight out of high school just like all of the best high school baseball players do (college baseball is another step below minor league baseball and only those players not drafted straight out of high school by an MLB team actually go play at a college - in hopes they might be able to change someone's mind and get into the minors quickly). Most of those football players could care less about education (there are exceptions, but look at the list of majors when they scroll the players during games - 99% are in something like sports education - fallback to being a P.E. teacher if they don't make the NFL because they don't care about anything else, like real academics. Very rare to find someone like FSU's Myron Rolle who is now a Rhodes Scholar and a top football player. Caveat: this applies to the football power schools, not the academic schools that also have football teams like Notre Dame or Georgia Tech, etc.)

Every other college team or individual sport includes long playoffs that keep students out of classes - soccer, basketball, tennis, swimming, etc. Why is it that we only argue about one division of a single sport (Div 1 football) when the academics debate comes up? Div 2 and Div 3 football have playoffs - are those students less capable? Are those students all failing because of them? No. And neither would Div 1 players.

Div 1 football never has been and never will be about academics and as such should have no part in the determination of a champion. Should it? Sure. It's college - college should always be about learning first and foremost; but in function it is merely an NFL minor league system and as such can't be considered the same as a normal non-athlete going to college. If you are going to play the "they can't miss more time" card then you have to put a stop to ALL college playoffs - basketball, soccer, lacrosse, etc. Goose and gander. Pot and kettle.

:thanks: :thanks:
 
One of the items that President Elect Obama mentioned on his Sixty Minutes interview a couple of weeks ago was the adoption of a playoff system and getting rid of the BCS. After the Longhorns got abused this week, I think that this will be a very popular position and it seems that others agree http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/12/02/1696506.aspxThe BCS must go. Everyother major sport has a playoff system. I am not sure if the use of the antitrust laws is the best way to get rid of the BCS but anything is better than the existing system.

I believe that Texas may actually be competitive in 2012 if President Elect Obama is successful in getting a playoff system established (of course the growth of the hispanic voting block in Texas will also help make Texas a potential swing state in 2012). Texans take college football very seriously.

Now you know how it feels to be a Boise State fan ;) Texas got the short end of the stick this year but I'm sure they will still end up in a bowl and leave with about 18 million reason$ to be happy. BSU on the other hand will sit home and watch two loss OSU lose another BCS bowl game. :woohoo:
 
What I find most interesting about this whole debate is the fact that the NCAA is a member based organization that schools can choose to be a part of or not. They all get votes and as far as I can recall they all have the right to bring proposals to the organization for discussion and eventually a vote. The public at large including Obama and any legislators that want to change the system can huff and puff all they want, the fact is the schools like the way the system works dispite any noise they may make. To go to a playoff system would devalue the non playoff bowls and mean less money for all the schools. The current system pays out big time and dispite any assurances from whoever is advocating the playoff system that the money would stay the same the schools are not buying it. The current systems payout is split between the participating schools and their respective conferences. The Big 12 is looking at a huge payout this year as they currently has three teams in the top 8. I can assure you that in spite of Mac Browns disappointment in not getting a shot at the big game he is greatly consoled by the fact that UT will still get a huge payout from their bowl game to help pay his salary.

Any change really needs to be initiated by the NCAA member schools and to this point they have not indicated a willingness to change.
 
These are STUDENTS, adding 3 weeks(or more) to their schedule is not in their best interest.

Contending schools already get plenty of money from football, it will not benefit the students in any way.

Many are students in name only, and bare little resemblence to the 99% of other "students" on campus, but that is a discussion for another thread.

These games would be played in mid to late Dec and early Jan while schools are on break and would have little impact on them attending classes.

To the OP--

Yes I would like to see a playoff, baked within the current bowl structure.

Take the top 16 teams and use exisiting bowl games. You can play the 4 rounds over the course of a month, starting in mid - Dec and finish up the 2nd week or so of January. They can even move the season back to 11 games if they are worried about the "kids" playing too many games during the season.

edit to add--As for the 16 teams....no matter how you pick them, people will complain that so and so got left out, but you'll at least give most deserving teams a shot.

My 16 would be the conf champs of the Big 10, Pac 10, SEC, ACC, Big East and Big 12 (6 teams). Any other teams ranked in the top 10 that were not conference champs (or not in a conference, such as Notre Dame) also would get a bid (likely 4 teams)

Put a rule in that if you are undefeated (and in a smaller conference...such as Ball St this year or Boise, BYU) then you automatically get a shot, that would add 2 or 3 schools depending on the year.

You can then use polls, computers or whatever else for the other 4-5 schools to fill it out.
 
First of all, I'm not a Texas fan at all yet I feel like they got screwed. Somebody always does every year. But who knows... maybe Mizzou will win and then things will sort themselves out. ;)

Having said that, I still don't know that playoffs are a solution. The basketball tourney always creates some crying about teams getting left out. It would only be worse with football. If playoffs are instituted and teh crying only intensifies, don't say you weren't warned. :goodvibes Besides, the BCS is a humongous moneymaker for colleges so it will continue.

As for Obama's involvement... well, let's just say he has a few other things that might be a teensy weensy bit more urgent and important which he maybe could tend to first. ;)
 
Many are students in name only, and bare little resemblence to the 99% of other "students" on campus, but that is a discussion for another thread.

These games would be played in mid to late Dec and early Jan while schools are on break and would have little impact on them attending classes.

To the OP--

Yes I would like to see a playoff, baked within the current bowl structure.

Take the top 16 teams and use exisiting bowl games. You can play the 4 rounds over the course of a month, starting in mid - Dec and finish up the 2nd week or so of January. They can even move the season back to 11 games if they are worried about the "kids" playing too many games during the season.

edit to add--As for the 16 teams....no matter how you pick them, people will complain that so and so got left out, but you'll at least give most deserving teams a shot.

My 16 would be the conf champs of the Big 10, Pac 10, SEC, ACC, Big East and Big 12 (6 teams). Any other teams ranked in the top 10 that were not conference champs (or not in a conference, such as Notre Dame) also would get a bid (likely 4 teams)

Put a rule in that if you are undefeated (and in a smaller conference...such as Ball St this year or Boise, BYU) then you automatically get a shot, that would add 2 or 3 schools depending on the year.

You can then use polls, computers or whatever else for the other 4-5 schools to fill it out.

I like a 16 team system as well but the one problem I can see with the one you have is that any non BCS team would need to go undefeated to get a bowl game. That's the same thing we have to do now :eek: If I read it right a one loss Utah or BSU wouldn't even get a shot but a 2 loss OSU or three loss Missouri still get the big money?
 
-Win your conference, you're in. That way, no crying.

-Shorten the regular season to 10 or 11 games to allow for a playoff.

-Keep the long-standing bowls to host later rounds of the playoffs.
 
-Win your conference, you're in. That way, no crying.

-Shorten the regular season to 10 or 11 games to allow for a playoff.

-Keep the long-standing bowls to host later rounds of the playoffs.

I'd be all for that. :thumbsup2
 
I hate everything about the BCS and I also hate the idea of a playoff system.

I loved the old ways. I liked having some 18 or so Bowl games with 18 winners. Why is it so important to people to have one champion and all other teams losers?

The Cotton Bowl used to mean something. I would cheer whichever Southwest Conference team was playing, and I always hoped that TCU would somehow make it. We had some great Bowl games over the years. Texas versus Notre Dame, for instance.

I always looked forward to New Years Day: it was THE day for Bowl games. Now, they spread them out so much that it is not much fun anymore.

So what if, on New Years Day, you had some dozen stadiums throughout the country in which the students were chanting 'We're Number One"?

Many a time I sat shivering in the Cotton Bowl doing said chant for the Longhorns, or Razorbacks, or even the Aggies, even though I would suspect, in my heart of hearts, that some team like USC or Purdue may have been better. Nevertheless, some 25,000 or more of us would file out of the Cotton Bowl feeling like we were number one, the same as students or alumni were doing in a dozen other bowls throughout the country. It was a happy way to start the new year.

Now, people want to channel it down to just one game where people can do the 'We're Number One' chant. Now, instead of sitting and arguing pleasantly with your family or neighbor or co-worker about who is best, we have nuts relying on computer programs and idiotic statistics. Now games are spread out to the second week of January (indeed, I think the first 'bowl' game is in less than ten days).

New Years Day has been ruined due to the nuts.
 

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