Should a Criminal Record eventually "go away"?

[MyGoofy26]

This is my concern. Why let someone who committed a felony like murder back out in the streets if we don't also give that person a chance to better his life and perhaps the lives of others? If we condemn a person to a meaningless low wage job the rest of his life, can we really expect him to stay out of trouble?

Lots of people earn low wages and manage to stay out of trouble.

 

[Bob Slydell]

I suppose there is a difference between always having to disclose your criminal past, and always having it held against you. Job applications ask you to declare if you have been convicted of a felony, but they also ask for an explanation - giving reformed the opportunity to explain themselves to a hopefully understanding potential employer.

I would like to think that I am capable of recognizing change and giving a person a second chance...of course it would depend on the crime committed and the job being hired for. No, I wouldn't hire a convicted child molester to babysit, nor a convicted embezzler to be my accountant.

Good point Having a felony on your record doesn't preclude you from getting a job necessarily. It may limit your choices and make it harder to get a job, but it doesn't make you completely unemployable.

 

[irishbosoxfan]

Having a meaningless low wage job for the rest of his life isn't an excuse to get back into trouble, so yes, I think we can expect him to stay out of trouble if he is truly sincere about changing his life around. There are plenty of people in this world who have lived their entire lives in those types of jobs but don't wind up breaking the law. A job doesn't determine one's ability to control himself.

Will it be frustrating for him? Sure. But he murdered someone...he made the conscious decision to end someone's life. It really doesn't matter how bothered he is by the consequences...perhaps he should have taken that into consideration before he chose to kill someone. At least he gets the chance to work...the same cannot be said for the person he killed.

I have to say on these statements which is shared by many on this thread that they are inaccurate--he was convicted of manslaughter not murder--that is why he got 12 years.

Had he planned (chose to willingly) he would have been convicted of murder which would have carried a longer jail term.

He got 12 years which suggests manslaughter and that there was more to what happened than he went to a party and killed someone.

This does not change the fact that he was responsible for someones death though.

Prisons used to be called "penitentiaries" and now they are called "correctional facilities" - a change in semantics that was presumably meant to indicate a belief that people who commit crimes can be rehabilitated, not just punished.

Every person is different, every crime is different, personally I am not comfortable making a blanket statment that all murderers or all felons or all cirminals should be treated one way or another.

I think that we need to look at some of these felonies and make determinations on a case by case basis.

Because think about it--Say Dawn was backing out of her driveway and failed to notice the old lady who lives next door bending over at the bottom picking up a quarter--she hits and kills her and ends up doing time for it///Then there is the man who shoots and kills his wife and her mother because he feels that they are against him----Is it fair that Dawn should be considered to be on the same playing field as the guy??

IMO..No---Regardless of the fact that 3 people lost their lives--The way in which they died should speak volumes! There are extenuating circumstances,circumstances beyond our control and other circumstances==If these played a part in their sentence determination,I believe they should play a part in whether they should be branded a felon for the rest of their natural lives.

You know, most companies these days do a credit check before they hire someone and if your credit is bad enough, they won't hire you. So I guess I certainly don't see an issue with not being hired for murdering someone, if we won't hire someone because their mortgage was late!

If you have late payments on your credit report you would think this would make someone want to hire you! They know you need the money to get out of the hole and would probably never show up late,would work every shift they could get their hands on and be willing to do the crappy jobs.

I don't think your CR should come into play at all unless it is for a job where you would be dealing with boatloads of money.

 

[Bob Slydell]

If you have late payments on your credit report you would think this would make someone want to hire you! They know you need the money to get out of the hole and would probably never show up late,would work every shift they could get their hands on and be willing to do the crappy jobs.

I don't think your CR should come into play at all unless it is for a job where you would be dealing with boatloads of money.

One other situation that I worked in where I know applicants were turned down for bad credit was when I was a consultant. Mainly because while we were given corporate credit cards, they were put in our name and were our responsibility to pay off. If someone neglected to pay their balance, the card got turned off. No card, no ability to travel anywhere and thus, no work got done.

 

[meandtheguys2]

Good point Having a felony on your record doesn't preclude you from getting a job necessarily. It may limit your choices and make it harder to get a job, but it doesn't make you completely unemployable.

Nope. One buddy (drug charge) is top management for a large ski resort, and another (our mailbox friend) is doing quite well in the computer industry. One wanted to become a doctor. And the other would have liked to have worked for the FBI. They couldn't pursue their first choices, but they have done very well.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

I get paid to give the hypotheticals, so here's a few to ponder:

As a PP noted, the kid received 12 years, which suggests a manslaughter conviction. This means that he had a reckless disregard for what his actions might cause. So let's paint the original crime this way. 15-year-old boy is at a keg party. At the party, he gets very intoxicated and "mouths off" to someone else at the party. The other person throws a beer at him and punches him in the head. 15-year-old takes a knife and stabs the person in the abdomen. The wound causes peritonitis and the person dies. Is the 15-year-old a murderer that must have this crime follow him forever?

What about the young man that we discussed a few months ago. An 18-year-old has consensual intercourse with a 15-year-old. He is now a felon who will always be a registered sex offender. Fair?

The problem with absolutes is that we aren't in a world of only absolutes. It would be nice if we could return to recognizing that there are millions of shades of grey. We need to use discretion. We also need to choose people whom we can trust with discretion. Finally, we need to understand that with discretion there will still be errors. To err is human.

 

[cardaway]

I'm not aware of sitatutions where people are not given the opportunity to explain the circumstances. If the felony was for something relatively harmless, maybe even trivial given what they are applying for, then I'm thinking they will be able to explain how that is the case.

The record should still be there so we don't create situaitons where one person's opinion of a gey area allows a child mollester to get a job where somebody dangerous is put back in the same situation. I say create an accurate record and let people go forward from there.

 

[PghLybrt]

What if a person had a felony for attempted grand theft (no weapon involved). They received probabtion, no jail time. It happened when they were young and stupid (but over 18). They've never been in any trouble since then. Should that follow them forever?

I ask because I have someone very close to me in that situation. Finding jobs is hard for him b/c although they say employers might give someone a chance even with a conviction...the reality is they never do. Checking the "yes" box is an automatic rejection.

Thank fully we run our company the exact opposite way. We do give second chances. My best manager has a record because....he passed a school bus...seriously a criminal offense? We somehow collect those people who are displaced mostly divorces but quite a few with records also. Would you ever know it as a consumer, nope!
Those with records , if you really talk to some of them, do want to change their life around and will work incredibly hard to do so.

 

[eclectics]

Because think about it--Say Dawn was backing out of her driveway and failed to notice the old lady who lives next door bending over at the bottom picking up a quarter--she hits and kills her and ends up doing time for it///Then there is the man who shoots and kills his wife and her mother because he feels that they are against him----Is it fair that Dawn should be considered to be on the same playing field as the guy??

Surely Dawn would not be charged with a felony for an accidental death, unless she was under the influence or something of that nature. This boy made the conscious decision to stab someone, wether it be murder (usually premeditated) or manslaughter (usually in the heat of passion), he still took a life and 15 is old enough to comprehend that if you stab someone, there is the possibility that your victim might indeed die.

 

[MyGoofy26]

Had he planned (chose to willingly) he would have been convicted of murder which would have carried a longer jail term.

Even a decision in the heat of the moment such as this as we're led to believe is a conscious choice. The fact that he carried a weapon (regardless of initial intent - whether he thought it was "cool" to carry a knife or if he wanted to have it in case he got into a fight) was a conscious choice.

He may not have shown up that night with a plan in his head, but during the course of events he somewhere made a choice to use the knife in a violent action. It's not like he was just standing there holding it and the other guy fell into it repeatedly.

 

[JoyG]

Thank fully we run our company the exact opposite way. We do give second chances. My best manager has a record because....he passed a school bus...seriously a criminal offense? We somehow collect those people who are displaced mostly divorces but quite a few with records also. Would you ever know it as a consumer, nope!
Those with records , if you really talk to some of them, do want to change their life around and will work incredibly hard to do so.

Where do you work?? He'll be by to put in an application.

Seriously though, I wish he was able to find a few companies like yours. He's had to start his own business just to try to support his family. Unfortunately, it's not going well and it's about to go under (like many small businesses do). His prospects after that look pretty grim.

 

[Mandy_in_NC]

This is a subject that is a sore spot for me. March 14th was the 6th year anniversary of the murder of my father. He was killed in a case of workplace violence. He was walking across the parking lot on his way into the building when he was shot by a former worker that he had never met. My father was not the intended victim. The guy also shot his intended victim but it was just an arm wound. Does it make it any less murder because my father was shot by accident? Hell no it does not. Should this guy have been charged with manslaughter because he did not mean to shoot my father? No. He knew when he went to the plant that night with a gun that something bad was going to happen. He made the choice to get his gun and go to the plant where he was no longer employeed and cause trouble. Should this guy get out in 12 years and consider his debt to society paid? No and he won't. My family fought to make sure that would not happen. We made sure that he got a very stiff sentance. He was convicted of 1st degree murder and was sentanced to life in prison with out the possibility of parole. His debt will never be paid. He can never replace what we lost that day. I lost my father who was my best friend and that can never be replaced.

 

[DawnCt1]

This is a subject that is a sore spot for me. March 14th was the 6th year anniversary of the murder of my father. He was killed in a case of workplace violence. He was walking across the parking lot on his way into the building when he was shot by a former worker that he had never met. My father was not the intended victim. The guy also shot his intended victim but it was just an arm wound. Does it make it any less murder because my father was shot by accident? Hell no it does not. Should this guy have been charged with manslaughter because he did not mean to shoot my father? No. He knew when he went to the plant that night with a gun that something bad was going to happen. He made the choice to get his gun and go to the plant where he was no longer employeed and cause trouble. Should this guy get out in 12 years and consider his debt to society paid? No and he won't. My family fought to make sure that would not happen. We made sure that he got a very stiff sentance. He was convicted of 1st degree murder and was sentanced to life in prison with out the possibility of parole. His debt will never be paid. He can never replace what we lost that day. I lost my father who was my best friend and that can never be replaced.

What a sad story. I am so sorry. Of course your Dad's murder wasn't "accidental", it was deliberate. It doesn't matter that the perpetrator made a mistake. It was a deliberate attack. MY SIL's uncle was murdered a few years ago. He was working an extra job in a package store when an armed robber came in and killed him. It has got to be so hard to get over a homocide. I can't imagine the pain.

 

[shirleyb]

It's sensitive for me, Mandy, too, because in January it was the 14th anniversary of my cousin's death who was murdered on his way to work by a Pakistani with a gun outside the CIA. He got out of his car and shot into the cars of several people waiting to turn into the CIA for work. My cousin was killed protecting his wife who was also in the car.

It's hard to feel much sympathy for his murderer, or any murderer. I realize you have to look at all circumstances individually.

I am so sorry for your loss, Mandy. The shock and senselessness of it is truly hard to understand.

 

[DawnCt1]

It's sensitive for me, Mandy, too, because in January it was the 14th anniversary of my cousin's death who was murdered on his way to work by a Pakistani with a gun outside the CIA. He got out of his car and shot into the cars of several people waiting to turn into the CIA for work. My cousin was killed protecting his wife who was also in the car.

It's hard to feel much sympathy for his murderer, or any murderer. I realize you have to look at all circumstances individually.

I am so sorry for your loss, Mandy. The shock and senselessness of it is truly hard to understand.

OMG, I remember when that happened. It doesn't seem like it has been 14 years but no doubt, it has been. My condolences.

 

[Cool-Beans]

Where do you work?? He'll be by to put in an application.

Seriously though, I wish he was able to find a few companies like yours. He's had to start his own business just to try to support his family. Unfortunately, it's not going well and it's about to go under (like many small businesses do). His prospects after that look pretty grim.

My dad hired a felon. I was there while we interviewed. They talked about normal work stuff, and my dad looked over the resume and said, "You've got a 12 year gap here."

Guy said, "Yeah, I was, um, institutionalized."

Dad: "Institutionalized? Are you crazy or criminal?"

Guy: "I, uh -"

Dad: "Nevermind. I don't wanna know. Can you start Monday?"

We found out later that he was in prison for murder. 12 years for MURDER! But, the government reimbursed us his salary for one full year. We paid the guy, they paid us.

Dad said he didn't hire him because he wanted to be nice and none of us had any idea the money was coming. He said, "He was the only one who looked like he wanted to work."

So, send your pal on down to Cleveland (if he really wants to work and doesn't call off and doesn't whine about having to work hard some days, play poker and drink beer on others...the drinking is optional, but the work and poker aren't.) There is lots of swearing and Dad isn't "understanding." He's pretty tough, but a nice guy underneath. Everyone else is nice, too (but they swear a lot, too.) Oh, and make no mistake - the cat rules the office and warehouse. Dad might own it, but the cat is in charge of everything - especially rubber bands.

 

[mking624]

I have to say on these statements which is shared by many on this thread that they are inaccurate--he was convicted of manslaughter not murder--that is why he got 12 years.

Had he planned (chose to willingly) he would have been convicted of murder which would have carried a longer jail term.

He got 12 years which suggests manslaughter and that there was more to what happened than he went to a party and killed someone.

This does not change the fact that he was responsible for someones death though.

The guy brought a knife to a party (how many people do you know who bring weapons to parties?). A fight broke out. He stabbed the person to death. Those are the facts that we have been told. I'm not a juror deciding on a case, so I'm not going to bother with technicalities regarding what the "proper" term to use is here. But what I do know is that yes, he made the choice to bring a weapon to a party. He made the choice to get involved in a fight. He made a choice to stab someone brutally enough that it ended the person's life. Murder is still murder, regardless if it was premeditated, intended, or not. There's obviously more technicality involved when it comes to conviction. The technicalities over the term doesn't change the fact that ultimately this was still a homicide. So no, I don't feel my statements are inaccurate.

 

[Mandy_in_NC]

It's sensitive for me, Mandy, too, because in January it was the 14th anniversary of my cousin's death who was murdered on his way to work by a Pakistani with a gun outside the CIA. He got out of his car and shot into the cars of several people waiting to turn into the CIA for work. My cousin was killed protecting his wife who was also in the car.

It's hard to feel much sympathy for his murderer, or any murderer. I realize you have to look at all circumstances individually.

I am so sorry for your loss, Mandy. The shock and senselessness of it is truly hard to understand.

Does the loss ever get any easier?