Should a child be penalized for a parent's behavior?

[Mkrop]

The Snack Bar Duty thread and one of the teacher gifts one got me thinking of this, not including a child's name on the card if parent does not pay.

Should the child be penalized because the parent does not do what they are suppose to do?

For example, DS12 is now playing in the competive part of his Little League and these coaches are super strict if you are not there on time. So far our coach has just threatened limited playing time if you are late. One coach is actually doing it. On weeknights if there is a game they have to be there at 5. We are fortunate that I stay at home so I can get him there on time, but I do have another son and other obligations that could make us late. Some parents can not always leave work early to assure their kids get there right at 5.

I am a rule follower and a very punctual person by nature, but I guess I see it as somewhat unfair to penalize 12 year olds who cant drive themselves to the field, they are at the mercy of their parents, whether the parents have legitimate reasons for being late or they are just a flake and cant tell time.

Your thoughts?

 

[Hillbeans]

The Snack Bar Duty thread and one of the teacher gifts one got me thinking of this, not including a child's name on the card if parent does not pay.

Should the child be penalized because the parent does not do what they are suppose to do?

For example, DS12 is now playing in the competive part of his Little League and these coaches are super strict if you are not there on time. So far our coach has just threatened limited playing time if you are late. One coach is actually doing it. On weeknights if there is a game they have to be there at 5. We are fortunate that I stay at home so I can get him there on time, but I do have another son and other obligations that could make us late. Some parents can not always leave work early to assure their kids get there right at 5.

I am a rule follower and a very punctual person by nature, but I guess I see it as somewhat unfair to penalize 12 year olds who cant drive themselves to the field, they are at the mercy of their parents, whether the parents have legitimate reasons for being late or they are just a flake and cant tell time.

Your thoughts?

I think my answer is "it depends". What time do the games start? If i'm asked to get there at 5 for practice for a 6 pm game that is just not going to happen. If i'm asked to be there at 5 for a 5:15 or 5:30 game that's a little more acceptable.

Unfortunately my son is not very athletic and if I were to bring him "late" to practices and games i'd probably see him sit on the bench more and then the coaches could use that as an excuse.

We also have snack shack duty, and the schedule is done on an alphabetical basis. If I don't volunteer or show up, I can pay a $50 one time activity fee.

 

[Aisling]

Hmmm this is tough one for me. In general, I don't think kids should be penalized for their parents behavior. (Like when my son got an F in Conduct on his report card because I refused to fill outand submit a Free Lunch form that I wasn't interested in.)

But in the case of little league, I think it's a parents and child deal. If the child is late, doesn't it affect the whole team? And if the kids are not old enough to be responsible for getting themselves there, the parents has to take the blame. If it were high school baseball, then it should be totally the kid's responsibility and the parent is out of the picture.

 

[onyx8]

I can see both sides - it's not really fair to all the kids who get there on time if some kids are constantly late.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

This seems perfectly fair to me. Kids who put in more time and follow the rules should get more playing time. Either find a way to get him there on time or explain to your son why you are costing him playing time. Don't shift blame onto the coach. What will your child learn from that?

 

[turkeymama]

As a general rule of thumb, I would say yes. After all, parents are penalized for their own children's behavior in some cases.

As for the specific cases of coaches penalizing players who are late for games? This is my theory. When you (general you, parents and kids) sign up for sports/extracurricular activities, you are making a commitment to be there for practices and games. If you can't make the commitments (whether its the kid's fault or parent's fault), don't sign up. It affects the whole team when other players can't make it on time. They use the pre-game time to warm up, take infield, etc. It is important for the team to be there working together.

This is precisely the reason that my kids aren't signed up for more activities. I can't ensure we will be there for every scout meeting, or every soccer practice, or all the gymnastic meets. I want my kids to understand what it means to commit to something.

 

[Gwendolyn]

its a difficult one. Ofcourse a child shouldnt be punished for their parents behaviour, but I can understand that being late can cut in the playing time, since there are kids around who are in time who get to practice more so that they can play more in the field.

Is there any way to help your son to be at the playingfield in time? Like asking a friend in the team if his parents can give him a lift? Or if the playing field is not that far away, maybe your son can ride a bicycle to there. Or take the bus?

 

[KristaTX]

In this case, maybe so. You have to teach kids to be punctual, or they may never learn. It's only fair to the coach/team for everyone to be on time, or there will be all kinds of stragglers. The coach and team members will all suffer.

The real issue here is whether games should start so early. It's probably a hardship on most parents to be there at 5.


But I must say that when I first read the title of this thread without seeing the topic at hand, what ran through my mind is that it is more often parents who should be penalized for their child's poor behavioral choices.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

It isn't fair. Most parents work. It is hard to get the kids there on time. I think they should take that into considerations when making schedules. A coach that wants kids there by 5:00 is just asking for trouble. That is when most people are just getting out of work.

Work has to come before little league. My DH leaves work early when DS has early practice, but if he has something at work and he can't leave, then DS shouldn't be punished for it (and he isn't here.) I work until 6:00 most nights, and I can't leave early. We are not given a schedule before we sign up and pay the fee. We don't know if practices will be at 5:00 or 7:00 or even what days. We have also had both our kids need to be at practice on 2 different fields at the same time. Try to get them to that when one parent is out of town.

 

[EllenFrasier]

My ds11 is in Little League too, and I think 5pm is too early for a weeknight game. I believe all of our weeknight games are at 6, which gives parents more of a chance to get home and provide the needed ride to the field. It does nothing for the dinner menu though does it! Our dinner plans go right out the window when baseball and softball season get here (we have a dd in softball).

I do not believe that the child should be penalized if the parents cannot get them there by 5 during the week - much too early. Maybe parents who cannot get out of work in time can join a carpool with a neighboring child's parents - pay them a little or something?

 

[Aisling]

The real issue here is whether games should start so early. It's probably a hardship on most parents to be there at 5.

I agree with this.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

As for the specific cases of coaches penalizing players who are late for games? This is my theory. When you (general you, parents and kids) sign up for sports/extracurricular activities, you are making a commitment to be there for practices and games. If you can't make the commitments (whether its the kid's fault or parent's fault), don't sign up.

We don't know the schedule when we sign up. If we did, and we knew in advance that practice was at 5:00, then we would not sign up. We take a chance, and have to pay up front.

My kids are only in basketball in the winter, baseball in spring and summer, and scouts. Since I am the scout leader, I schedule meetings at 6:30 so I know we can make it on time.

 

[MushyMushy]

I'm one of those "it depends."

But what's the thread about the teacher gift and not signing a kid's name if the parent didn't pay? People really do that?? If the gift is truly for the teacher and not for the parent's ego, then trust me, the teacher doesn't want any child to be left out.

As far as penalizing a child for being late, well, I just think that's all what a parent has to take into consideration when signing a kid up for activities. When my daughter was in dance, the scheduling could be a real pain in the rear, but that's something we knew going into it.

 

[Mkrop]

As a general rule of thumb, I would say yes. After all, parents are penalized for their own children's behavior in some cases.

As for the specific cases of coaches penalizing players who are late for games? This is my theory. When you (general you, parents and kids) sign up for sports/extracurricular activities, you are making a commitment to be there for practices and games. If you can't make the commitments (whether its the kid's fault or parent's fault), don't sign up. It affects the whole team when other players can't make it on time. They use the pre-game time to warm up, take infield, etc. It is important for the team to be there working together.

This is precisely the reason that my kids aren't signed up for more activities. I can't ensure we will be there for every scout meeting, or every soccer practice, or all the gymnastic meets. I want my kids to understand what it means to commit to something.

We are not given a schedule prior to signing up and start times can vary by coaches. So I would have no idea if this would work for us prior to registration.

In our case (I am the OP) the games start at 5:45 but the kids must be there at 5 for warmups.

The fields are not located within walking or biking distance, and there is not a safe route.

Last year I helped out a working mom by picking the kids up at school and getting him there on time for her.

 

[mamacatnv]

I agree with the rules and what the coaches are asking for. If they start later then parents complain they are out too late on a school night etc. I sat on the governing board for our baseball league for 6 years, it is a no win situation, some parent will complain about something.

We played competitive sports year round for 14 years with DS, during that time we had another baby, we both worked full time and DH went back to school for 2 years on top of working. We sorted it out, we carpooled, we took turns, we traded off with each other and other parents and we both managed to attend the majority of his games, there were occassions where only one of us could be there but I cannot remember a time that one of us did not attend. DD was 48hours old when she made her first visit to the soccer field.

OP didn't say the game starts at 5, I am assuming the kids need to be there for warm up and practice prior to the start of the game.

IMO if you are going to sign them up then you need to be prepared to commit to the schedules. Honestly, I am so thankful that DS is in college and DD is not into competitive sports. Our only obligation is swim club, once a week on Saturday mornings at 6:50 a.m.!

 

[NotUrsula]

My school has a good example of a time when it is NOT appropriate. They blackmail us into attending PTO meetings by creating dress-down days that are ONLY for those children whose parents attend the meetings. So if the special dress-down day is on Friday, the whole school now knows that little Johnny has "deadbeat" parents because he is the only one in his class wearing his uniform that day.

I hate this policy with the heat of a white-hot sun, but they have been doing this for decades now, and most parents apparently don't have an issue with it, because I've never been able to find anyone else willing to co-sign a complaint about it.

Also just FTR, there is absolutely NO WAY that I would let my child sign up for a regular activity if the schedule of attendance was not laid out at the time he signed up, and if that schedule conflicted with both DH' and my work hours. That just is not do-able at our house.

 

[Mrs. Charming]

I'm going to have to say no, the child should not be penalized. Some parents are just chronically late people, and it's not the child's fault. 12 is not old enough to drive himself, and I'm assuming that it's not within safe walking/biking distance. Sure it's a pain to the coach, but to punish the child, who may be a punctual person by nature but he just can't get there because mom/dad isn't.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

We are not given a schedule prior to signing up and start times can vary by coaches. So I would have no idea if this would work for us prior to registration.

In our case (I am the OP) the games start at 5:45 but the kids must be there at 5 for warmups.

The fields are not located within walking or biking distance, and there is not a safe route.

Last year I helped out a working mom by picking the kids up at school and getting him there on time for her.

This sounds like us. Luckily this year we have to be there at 5:30 only 1 time per week. The other is 6:30. We are not in walking distance, and we live in a rural area. It would be way out of the way to ask anyone to help us with rides. It is REALLY nice of you to help someone out that way.

I think my biggest complaint is no schedule until after sign up like you said. We usually get the call about 1 week before the season starts. Some coaches have called the day before.

 

[Mickeypooh99]

My school has a good example of a time when it is NOT appropriate. They blackmail us into attending PTO meetings by creating dress-down days that are ONLY for those children whose parents attend the meetings. So if the special dress-down day is on Friday, the whole school now knows that little Johnny has "deadbeat" parents because he is the only one in his class wearing his uniform that day.

I hate this policy with the heat of a white-hot sun, but they have been doing this for decades now, and most parents apparently don't have an issue with it, because I've never been able to find anyone else willing to co-sign a complaint about it.

Also just FTR, there is absolutely NO WAY that I would let my child sign up for a regular activity if the schedule of attendance was not laid out at the time he signed up, and if that schedule conflicted with both DH' and my work hours. That just is not do-able at our house.

I would complain about he uniform thing for sure!

As for signing up before a schedule is known... It is the only way we can sign up for sports here. My kids love their basketball and baseball. I wouldn't want them to miss out because the adults can't get their act together ahead of time!

 

[barkley]

i would be talking to the area organizers for the sport and asking why there's no schedual given out for parents to evaluate prior to signing kids up.

realisticly, with these types of sports the games have been schedualed months in advance so that the sports fields can be reserved and officiating staff can be schedualed, so there's not excuse for a group to not be able to provide that information and their expectations for the time of arrival of the participants beforehand.

with any kind of activity my kids have done in recent years there's been a kind of contract included with the registration paperwork, the parent signs aknowledging that they are obligated to ensure the child's arrival on time, and regular attendance-and what the penalties to the child are for failing to do so (and what financial penalties the parent might incur), for the child it's similar and it also says that they know that if they don't arrive on time/fail to attend what the penalties are.

we don't sign any of these kinds of contracts unless we know in advance what the schedual is-and i suspect that unless there's more kids that want to do a particular activity or sport than a group actualy needs, if the parents took a hard line about this and refused to let their kids sign up without advance notice, these groups would find dwindling enrollment and end up providing what they should be in the first place.