Shared Parenting Plan (Long)

[cabanafrau]

My advice to any divorced parents is to remember to be flexible in the interest of the children. Once the kids are a certain age, vacation schedules get to be a real mess, even in families where the parents are together, because the kids start having obligations of their own -- band camp, cheerleading camp, soccer camp, dance camp, scout camps, volleyball camps, confirmation camps, etc., etc., etc.

Work it as casually & flexibly as possible when they're young, because there will need to be accommodations once they hit the middle & high school years.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

Wow. That is a crazy schedule. I pity the children. Even though they are "used to it" they don't really have any type of security being dragged back and forth between 2 houses that seem to "keep score".

My ex is a firefighter that works the same type of 24 on/48 off type of schedule. We were adults about the situation and we work out schedules for him to see his kids as much as possible as he can get time off. The fact that this type of schedule has to be put in writing shows a definite lack of "putting the kids first" mentality between the parents.

The GAL can make suggestions but it is ultimately up to a judge to finalize court ordered visitation schedules - at least in the state where we divorced. Since we worked everything out amicably, we thankfully did not have to hire a GAL. Good thing since I have seen some of them take sides and do more harm than good.

DH's ex sounds like the Mother in this situation. She refuses to let DH have his children for a second longer than his court ordered days. Because he is military and travels often for his job (and sometimes last minute) he has had times when he has had to cancel his visitation or has had extra time when he could have taken the kids and his ex has raked him over the coals every single time and refused to reschedule his visitation around his work schedule.

As far as the situation in the OP, both parents need to be FLEXIBLE and put the kids first. As long as this vacation doesn't fall during something that is already planned (sports tournament, vacation with the Mom, etc...) then the Mom needs to let the Dad have the kids and not worry about getting the time back. How old are these kids anyway? Unless they are infants or toddlers then they can certainly go more than 5 days without seeing the other parent without being scarred for life.

 

[sunnyday123]

As a divorced parent, that schedule confused the crap out of me. I think in some ways, they're both being a little hard-headed. Legally, I think the Mom is right ( I think ) but I do agree there has to be some give and take. The only time I would raise ( and have ) a stink is if the ex knew I had something planned during my time, and tried to get me to switch days. Not happening. And you do want to see your kids as much as possible. I know when my ex and I switch days, we do have "make-up" days. I am very lenient in our schedules as far as when he sees her, but there are some things I won't bend for, and it is in DD's best interest.

 

[golfgal]

Unfortunately , Dad is a fireman , they don't have schedules that you can work week to week. : ( They work round the clock at times , several days on, several days off.

I missed that--but you would think that given his job, they would have learned to be flexible. I just can't fathom not trying to work this out without having to take it to court. The other thing, maybe I missed it, is this for the summer or is this vacation trying to work around school schedules too.

 

[kellyg403]

Wow. That is a crazy schedule. I pity the children. Even though they are "used to it" they don't really have any type of security being dragged back and forth between 2 houses that seem to "keep score".

My ex is a firefighter that works the same type of 24 on/48 off type of schedule. We were adults about the situation and we work out schedules for him to see his kids as much as possible as he can get time off. The fact that this type of schedule has to be put in writing shows a definite lack of "putting the kids first" mentality between the parents.

The GAL can make suggestions but it is ultimately up to a judge to finalize court ordered visitation schedules - at least in the state where we divorced. Since we worked everything out amicably, we thankfully did not have to hire a GAL. Good thing since I have seen some of them take sides and do more harm than good.

DH's ex sounds like the Mother in this situation. She refuses to let DH have his children for a second longer than his court ordered days. Because he is military and travels often for his job (and sometimes last minute) he has had times when he has had to cancel his visitation or has had extra time when he could have taken the kids and his ex has raked him over the coals every single time and refused to reschedule his visitation around his work schedule.

As far as the situation in the OP, both parents need to be FLEXIBLE and put the kids first. As long as this vacation doesn't fall during something that is already planned (sports tournament, vacation with the Mom, etc...) then the Mom needs to let the Dad have the kids and not worry about getting the time back. How old are these kids anyway? Unless they are infants or toddlers then they can certainly go more than 5 days without seeing the other parent without being scarred for life.

My ex is military and I am usually very flexible for the kids sake. I even *gasp* have let them miss school to go to a homecoming from Afghanistan. I feel like it is the right thing to do with the kids.

My wonder in the OP's situation is this though, we are commenting only on the one parent not being flexible in THIS particular situation. I know that my ex is not always as flexible as I am. There have been times he has wanted the children on a weekend that was not his. We had an issue where I had made plans, he wasn't willing to be as flexible in return and it did leave a sour taste in my mouth. He kinda left me in a position to look like the bad guy as the kids WERE more interested in his acitivity than going to mine which was family related and you know how that goes. They would rather go to an amusement park than sit around being pinched and kissed by a bunch of people they see once a year.

That being said, OP, is there a chance that this inflexibility comes from prior issues as opposed to this 'one' time?

Anyway, honestly, whatever the kids wanted to do was what they would do in my situation. I find the parenting plan to be a little complex, but then again some employment situations make it so. I just would hope that in this case the one causing the issue understands the 'want' as opposed to the need and sometimes that is o.k.


Kelly

 

[minniecarousel]

Wow - the Mom really wants the kids to miss seeing their cousins and other relatives on Dad's side of the family during a family vacation - the one she partook in while she was married to the Dad? She sounds like the unyielding one.

Yeah - take it out on the kids. She sounds like a lovely mother....

 

[aaarcher86]

My ex is military and I am usually very flexible for the kids sake. I even *gasp* have let them miss school to go to a homecoming from Afghanistan. I feel like it is the right thing to do with the kids.

My wonder in the OP's situation is this though, we are commenting only on the one parent not being flexible in THIS particular situation. I know that my ex is not always as flexible as I am. There have been times he has wanted the children on a weekend that was not his. We had an issue where I had made plans, he wasn't willing to be as flexible in return and it did leave a sour taste in my mouth. He kinda left me in a position to look like the bad guy as the kids WERE more interested in his acitivity than going to mine which was family related and you know how that goes. They would rather go to an amusement park than sit around being pinched and kissed by a bunch of people they see once a year.

That being said, OP, is there a chance that this inflexibility comes from prior issues as opposed to this 'one' time?

Anyway, honestly, whatever the kids wanted to do was what they would do in my situation. I find the parenting plan to be a little complex, but then again some employment situations make it so. I just would hope that in this case the one causing the issue understands the 'want' as opposed to the need and sometimes that is o.k.


Kelly

I actually tried to keep that part out on purpose to keep it unbiased.

Yes, there is a 3 year history of one parent giving the other extra days for activities, or trying to trade and the other not reciprocating... but the mother is the one that does not reciprocate.

The father's family plans things around his schedule to avoid having to ask the mother for time, but sometimes it's unavoidable. While the mother doesn't seem to take into account the schedule, and then will just ask for whatever day a plan falls onto. It has consistently happened for 3 years. Just off the top of my head the kids have missed 2 birthdays (one for each of my kids), their father's Santa at the firehouse celebration, etc. In the beginning the father would give the mother a day but when he would try and pick up the kids on his make up day she would refuse, and at one point call the police. He graduated to not scheduling a make up day and just asking for a day here and there when he needed it, but she never gave him the time. In February, she kept the kids away from one of my daughter's birthday party. The following weekend he gave her his Saturday so the kids could go to a water park with her neighbor. They were trying to do a joint birthday party for the kids, but she planned it on a day that he works and still wanted him to pay for half (when he obviously wouldn't be there). He's decided that he is no longer able to try and work with her on trading days or straying from the schedule.

I think that's part of the reason he is not budging, personally. He's tried to work with her in the past, but even as much as he tries to work with her she continuously calls him selfish/controlling/not thinking of the kids, etc. He truly does not believe he is wrong and thinks he is able to take this week. She believes that he has broken their SPP several times which he has not so in her opinion, this is the final straw. The father allows the kids to spend the night at a friend's house, or their aunt/uncle's house who lives in the country on occasion. If the kids are gone, he may go out and do something and she feels he is getting a sitter in order to go out which isn't the case.

To another poster - the kids are now 7 and 10. At the time they were 4 and 6 when they were going through the divorce. The mother is a teacher and the father is a firefighter so they were very used to having both parents around the majority of the time.

 

[ClarabelleCowFan]

Sounds like the mother is using the kids as pawns to get back at her ex. I would also venture to guess that she doesn't like you (the new wife) very much and does what she can to keep the kids away from any celebrations you are involved in. She probably doesn't want the kids going with her ex and you on this family trip because she used to go on this trip with the kids when she was married to him. It's only a guess but based on my experience with DH and his ex (who can't stand me) it sounds VERY familiar.

Sadly, nothing short of a court order is going to change the situation since the mother is unwilling to work with the father on visitation. If the father plays the same game and keeps the kids on his days if the mother wants them for some celebration or fun event then he is just stooping to her level. Nobody wins here.

All I can say is good luck. You have many more years of these games to deal with and it sounds like it will only get worse. We have been in court for YEARS over issues not unlike these with no end in sight.

 

[golfgal]

Again, poor kids....

It sounds like Dad might need to bring in a mediator or whatever. Any chance he has documentation of the extra days he has given?

 

[aaarcher86]

Again, poor kids....

It sounds like Dad might need to bring in a mediator or whatever. Any chance he has documentation of the extra days he has given?

There is some documentation - not all of them are documented. There are several through emails. I know an email has been sent to the GAL, but so far there has not been a response. I don't know if she will honestly, since the case/file has been closed for so long.

Clarabelle - I'm not his new wife/girlfriend. I agree that it sucks he doesn't give her days anymore, but he's done it for 3 years. He can't do it forever when she refuses to do the same. At some point, he just ends up a doormat, IMO.

 

[kellyg403]

There is some documentation - not all of them are documented. There are several through emails. I know an email has been sent to the GAL, but so far there has not been a response. I don't know if she will honestly, since the case/file has been closed for so long.

Clarabelle - I'm not his new wife/girlfriend. I agree that it sucks he doesn't give her days anymore, but he's done it for 3 years. He can't do it forever when she refuses to do the same. At some point, he just ends up a doormat, IMO.

I feel really sorry for the dad and kids then. This is one of those situations where I would feel strongly that all parties stick to the agreement and not be flexible. Honestly, sometimes sticking to the court ordered document alleviates some of the 'feelings' that come in to play. If one is not willing to bend and is constantly making things a hassle, I honestly would be asking the GAL if there is a chance to modify documentation to include family events, missed/makeup days, how to document etc. so that common sense is written into the document. I would recommend the parent having the issue employ very SPECIFIC guidelines. Being very very specific, while it seems crazy to have to do it, is probably the only way this is going to work for everyone.

Ex and I were very specific in our custody decree. It was imperative in our situation to take away the bad feelings we had. It helped immensly. We will never be friends because of the reasons for the divorce itself, but honestly where the kids are concerned, we do try to leave the animosity out of it. It spills over to easily.

Kelly

 

[SaraJayne]

Yes, this precisely.

For anyone who doesn't know, as a firefighter he works 24 hour shifts every 3 days.

There is also a rule in their agreement that states they can not have the kids for more than 5 day periods as the GAL thought that it would be too much for the kids to be away from either parent that long (excluding a few vacations a year obviously). There were things that both parents wanted in the divorce decree that the GAL had stated could not be put in due to the fact that they are to 'share parenting' and 'cooperate' with one another. I can only assume that is why the vacation section is so vague.

This is not unusual for the mother to do. They have been divorced/separated for 3 years. The father has attempted to trade days on several occasions, but the mother will not reciprocate. He is taking his first week vacation on week 3 to take their kids to the Taylor Swift concert, although he has agreed to give her his last day of what would be his vacation.

I guess what I can't understand is why it matters to the mother if she is losing the same amount of days other than arguing for the sake of arguing.

ETA: The GAL approved the schedule because it is the only way for the father to have 50% custody which she felt was important. She actually attempted to find a way to give him more, but there isn't much leeway with this schedule. The kids have double everything so they aren't living out of suitcases or anything, and their father's schedule is something that they have grown up with. As weird as it sounds to most people, they kids are pretty comfortable with it. The parents live a few minutes from each other so everything is nearly the same at both homes.

I've only gotten this far in the thread, so you may have already answered this, but are these your stepchildren? And you are currently married to the firefighter?

I'm assuming you are a woman, so forgive me if I'm wrong.

But those poor children, having two places to sleep, with neither of them being a home.

 

[SaraJayne]

The other family member is his sister and her son. It's a family vacation that they had taken as a couple for 10 years, the same week every year. The way the custody schedule rotation falls this year it happens to be on a split week.

That is kind of why I posed the question - if he isn't breaking the SPP then there is no need for the battle to continue and there wouldn't be an argument to be had. If he is indeed breaking the SPP then he will move his beach vacation to another week as he doesn't want to deliberately break a court order, but the kids will not get to spend time with their cousins, aunt and grandparents.

IMO, since it's an annual tradition to vacation that week, Dad should be able to take the kids.

Tell Mom to grow up.

 

[happygirl]

It sounds like the mother is being very petty, I feel bad for those kids she is using them against her ex

 

[crashbb]

Clarabelle - I'm not his new wife/girlfriend. I agree that it sucks he doesn't give her days anymore, but he's done it for 3 years. He can't do it forever when she refuses to do the same. At some point, he just ends up a doormat, IMO.

Well you are obviously some kind of relation to the father (otherwise why the focus on the kids missing the birthdays of your children?). Seems weird that you keep dancing around the relationship.

I agree with the others - those poor kids. And, I think that it is in their best interest to allow dad to have a holiday in the third week.

 

[happygirl]

Well you are obviously some kind of relation to the father (otherwise why the focus on the kids missing the birthdays of your children?). Seems weird that you keep dancing around the relationship.

I agree with the others - those poor kids. And, I think that it is in their best interest to allow dad to have a holiday in the third week.

I agree with the bolded part

 

[shortbun]

The dad needs a mediator. He needs documentation and he needs to ask about redoing the agreement. He has set a precedent so he needs to now legally state that he is no longer willing to flex if there is to be no reciprocation. He can say it's because the kids are older and they care that they are missing lots of important social events with his family.

 

[CharliNye]

I agree with the bolded part

I don't think it's weird. Maybe she doesn't want to go into complete details. My guess is maybe she's his sister or his SIL. Some parents have been known to alienate the ex's side of the family out of spite. And even if she is a gf, the parents have been split for three yrs and he has a right to a new relationship. And the mother sounds like she can't quite be a grown woman. I NEVER treated my ex's gf(now wife) this way, in fact we became close friends because I knew she's be a huge part of my kid's life.

Also, this is ridiculous. The whole thing. Especially the mother. I've been divorced for over ten yrs(remarried for 7) and my son was 3 when we split. We never have gone through things like this. To us it was imperative that we had a regular schedule and if we needed to trade days for something, or he wanted extra days for a trip then I said fine. I actually LIKE for my son to spend time with his dad, it's important to him to have a relationship with him.

Man, I would never be this particular and take every tiny little deviation from the schedule to the court, that's just silly. Be a grownup and work it out. This woman sounds like a piece of work.

I mean wow, this is just crazy. My ex right now is working a LOT and he's been sick a lot too, so my teen has been with me on many of his days when this has happened. It's something we agreed on if those things came up. It's a bit annoying, but I don't care. Because I know when I've been sick my ex has taken my son a couple extra days. Oh wait, then again we LIKE each other.

 

[aaarcher86]

Well you are obviously some kind of relation to the father (otherwise why the focus on the kids missing the birthdays of your children?). Seems weird that you keep dancing around the relationship.

I agree with the others - those poor kids. And, I think that it is in their best interest to allow dad to have a holiday in the third week.

I'm definitely not trying to dance around anything. Up until a few posts ago I didn't want to share any additional info on the situation because I wanted to remain unbiased.

The father is my uncle - although our ages are close and we have a close relationship so he feels more like a brother... lives 4 houses down... our kids are close to the same age.

I mentioned the birthdays of my children because they were special events, not just the father asking to take the kids to the park on a random day.

 

[Bren's Mom]

My credentials: stepmom to one

I am replying without reading any replies:

Mom needs to realize that SHE will have her kids 3 additional days when SHE takes vacation.

She needs to let the kids go when dad has the vacation planned, regardless of what 'week' it is.

These types of petty things might SEEM important in the moment, but I can all but guarantee this type of stuff is what will cause children to be resentful in the end, of the parent who is being petty and nitpicky.

My $.02.