Seriously Considering DVC - Need some Advice

[dmoore22]

No DDP means more flexibilty if we don't feel like a big meal one of the days and we usally tend to get appetizers over desserts with our dinner. For free? That's a different story.

We tend to share your sentiments regarding the DDP. As DVC members we take advantage of the DVC Annual Pass discount. As passholders we can purchase the Tables in Wonderland card which provides dining discounts to the holder and those in his/her party that are dining with him/her. The TIW discounts, unlike DDP, include libations. We have found, for us, that it is a better deal than the DDP. If DDP were free we would reconsider our position on DDP.

Also, if I book the one bedroom now and free dining comes out in April, can the one bedroom be canceled and can I get my points back?

Here is the DVC cancellation policy:

Cancelling a reservation 31 or more days prior to check-in:
All Vacation Points used to make the reservation will be restored to your account in the Use Year in which the reservation falls.


Cancelling a reservation 30 days-1 day prior to check-in:
All the Vacation Points used to make the reservation will be placed in the Holding Account in the Use Year in which the reservation falls.


Cancelling a reservation on the check-in date:
All the Vacation Points used to make the reservation will be forfeited.

 

[Sandisw]

Thanks for your replies. To answer your questions, would we get DDP anyway? No. Unfortunately, much like DVC, I don't see a huge value in pre-paying for your meals. I usually pay out of pocket even though we usually do a table service a day and come out about the same. No DDP means more flexibilty if we don't feel like a big meal one of the days and we usally tend to get appetizers over desserts with our dinner. For free? That's a different story.

No, we don't usually do a one bedroom but the reason I think we need to with DVC is the space/beds. Our two kids are over 11 and I can 't see them in a room with one bed and a pull out sofa. At least all the resorts, even value resorts have two beds in a room. Only OKW does for DVC. I see us using OKW studios in the future simply for the two beds. How do folks fit 4 'adults' in a studio or even one bedroom with a pull out sofa for the second bed?? Seems pretty uncomfortable for what folks consider "luxury" accomodations.

There do seem to be alot of negatives over positives which is why I want to get my feet wet with a small contract. 9700 is a bit more than I wanted to spend but it is in the range. I was looking for between 50-100 points and with the extra disney point incentive, it might be worth going to the high end and buying from Disney but I am still not sure. With a small 50 pt contract I would bank and borrow every few years and use the DVC not on every trip. Probably true with 100 points to some extent too.

Good question about banking my 2009 points I need to find that out if it is possible.

Also, if I book the one bedroom now and free dining comes out in April, can the one bedroom be canceled and can I get my points back?

With DVC, you can bank your points within the first 8 months of your UY. When you cancel a reservation at least 31 days out, as long as you are still within your banking window, the points go back to your account as they would and current UY points can be banked.

Now, if you borrow points for that August vacation, and you cancel, those borrowed points would remain in the current UY and have to be used by the end of the UY. I know you mentioned buying only 100 points so it all depends on how many points you are using and what type of points they are as to exactly what you will be able to do with them.

What I am not understanding is if you really don't feel that the DDP is a good plan, why would you pay more for your room just to get free dining, especially if you invest in DVC anyway?

Also, my 3 kids (20, 16, and 13) and I stayed in studios last summer. And, my DS20 had no issue with the sofa bed at any of the resorts. He said they were fine in terms of comfort. We ended up also bringing an air mattress with us too because my DD16 would rather sleep on that than share a bed with me and that worked out fine too. The only studio that was a little tight was BLT.

From now on, our trips will consist of 1 bedrooms and I can't wait. It will only be 3 of us for the next 3 years (as DH will come but the older two kids won't), and we can't wait for the King Bed and the jacuzzi tub!!!

 

[huskies90]

I know you mentioned buying only 100 points so it all depends on how many points you are using and what type of points they are as to exactly what you will be able to do with them.

My question is about the 2009 bonus points that Disney is offering. Can I bank those points to 2011?

What I am not understanding is if you really don't feel that the DDP is a good plan, why would you pay more for your room just to get free dining, especially if you invest in DVC anyway?

The Disney Dining Plan and "Free Dining" in my eyes are not the same thing. Let's call it "Free Food" instead. You still have to eat and like I said, we do eat at table service meals. So while I don't think the Disney Dining Plan is a good value to purchase, as a free add on even with the cost of a rack rate room, it is an awesome discount. I don't look at as I am saving $160 a day as much as I am saving about $120-140 per day which is about what we spend per day on food while at Disney. Heck, if you stay at a moderate, it almost matches the rack rate - So "free dining" could be looked as free lodging and you are paying for your food. It is very hard for a DVC ressie, to compete with that.

Hence, my dilemma and why I started this thread. The current deal is great to join DVC with all those extra points but the timing is not good with my upcoming trip because of Free Dining. So do I 1) hold off and look for resale which was my initial plan until I called DVC or do I 2) just by in with Disney now and use my points or do I 3) buy in with Disney and bank for now until 2011.

 

[dmoore22]

The Disney Dining Plan and "Free Dining" in my eyes are not the same thing. Let's call it "Free Food" instead. You still have to eat and like I said, we do eat at table service meals. So while I don't think the Disney Dining Plan is a good value to purchase, as a free add on even with the cost of a rack rate room, it is an awesome discount. I don't look at as I am saving $160 a day as much as I am saving about $120-140 per day which is about what we spend per day on food while at Disney. Heck, if you stay at a moderate, it almost matches the rack rate - So "free dining" could be looked as free lodging and you are paying for your food. It is very hard for a DVC ressie, to compete with that.

Hence, my dilemma and why I started this thread. The current deal is great to join DVC with all those extra points but the timing is not good with my upcoming trip because of Free Dining. So do I 1) hold off and look for resale which was my initial plan until I called DVC or do I 2) just by in with Disney now and use my points or do I 3) buy in with Disney and bank for now until 2011.

One of the first laws of economics is "There is no such thing as a free lunch." In considering the incentives that Disney is periodically providing to fill rooms one needs to read the fine print. Whether its free DDP or "Stay for 4 get 3 Free" there are limitations such as travel between specific dates and paying the full rack rate. When one pays the rack rate and receives the "free" DDP the company is actually making up the difference in the nondiscounted room charges. Same with the 3 for free promotion. The savings are an illusion. Usually the AP room discounts are comparable if not better.

As far as your "dilemma" the most frequently provided advice is to buy where you want to stay. If that is a resort such as OKW then check with DVC to see if they have any contracts available or check to see what the Resale market has to offer. If the deal and the home resort you've been offered appeals to you and your thinking in terms of a long term commitment with stability in room accomodations/cost then this may be for you. However, judging by your previous comments I think you will have buyers' remorse/regrets no matter which decision you make.

 

[5forDiz]

My question is about the 2009 bonus points that Disney is offering. Can I bank those points to 2011?

2009 Use Year points allotment may only be banked into 2010 Use Year, 2010 UY points allotment may only be banked into 2011 UY, etc.

But there will be dates during the 2011 year that banked 2009 UY points will be usable :

Feb 2009 banked are for use 2/1/2010 - 1/31/2011
Mar 2009 " " for use 3/1/2010 - 2/28/2011
Apr 2009 " " for use 4/1/2010 - 3/31/2011
Jun 2009 " " for use 6/1/2010 - 5/31/2011
Aug 2009 " " for use 8/1/2010 - 7/31/2011
Sep 2009 " " for use 9/1/2010 - 8/31/2011
Oct 2009 " " for use 10/1/2010 - 9/30/2011
Dec 2009 " " for use 12/1/2010 - 11/30/2011

 

[huskies90]

One of the first laws of economics is "There is no such thing as a free lunch." In considering the incentives that Disney is periodically providing to fill rooms one needs to read the fine print. Whether its free DDP or "Stay for 4 get 3 Free" there are limitations such as travel between specific dates and paying the full rack rate. When one pays the rack rate and receives the "free" DDP the company is actually making up the difference in the nondiscounted room charges. Same with the 3 for free promotion. The savings are an illusion. Usually the AP room discounts are comparable if not better.

I don't get your logic. I never said Free Dining was free only that it was a discount off rack. That is what we are talking about here, how do we get the biggest discount off the rack which equates to -- what is the least expensive accomodations? The free dining discount happens to be the biggest discount out there...

 

[dmoore22]

I don't get your logic. I never said Free Dining was free only that it was a discount off rack. That is what we are talking about here, how do we get the biggest discount off the rack which equates to -- what is the least expensive accomodations? The free dining discount happens to be the biggest discount out there...

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" is an adage that is at the core of economics, often referring to the concept of "opportunity cost." It is also the title of Milton Friedman's 1975 book on the free market.

I could not explain the issue any better than it is described in the following post:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=35692257&postcount=54

Unfortunately he/she did not factor in other DVC perks, such as free internet access in the room which the non-DVC owner or guest paying rack rate would have to pay.

The only other example that I could add is many DVC owners purchase AP/PAPs with their DVC discount. They can then take advantage of the AP room only discounts, which, depending on the accomodations they choose, can save one up to 45%. Using a 7 night MYW package at Caribbean Beach, for example, will run $3,098.31. The same accomodations with the AP room only discount will run $909.70. Since we're using the AP discount at least one member of the party will need to be an AP holder. The cost of the AP will be $412.75 (DVC discount). The rest of the party is using the 7 day MYW at the discounted rate of $229.11 ($687.33 total). The total cost is then $2,011.32. In addition the AP holder may choose to purchase TIW which provides discounts on all food items, including libations, at select locations. And then there are the additional AP/PAP/DVC merchandise discounts at select sites throughout the "World" and DTD. There is a discount ripple effect that goes beyond the limits of the DDP. The free DDP discount may be the best discount there is for someone who is the occasional WDW visitor but not for the AP/PAP holder and DVC owner. Generally the later group makes multiple trips each year allowing them to benefit from the economies of scale.

 

[huskies90]

"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch" is an adage that is at the core of economics, often referring to the concept of "opportunity cost." It is also the title of Milton Friedman's 1975 book on the free market.

I could not explain the issue any better than it is described in the following post:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=35692257&postcount=54

Unfortunately he/she did not factor in other DVC perks, such as free internet access in the room which the non-DVC owner or guest paying rack rate would have to pay.

The only other example that I could add is many DVC owners purchase AP/PAPs with their DVC discount. They can then take advantage of the AP room only discounts, which, depending on the accomodations they choose, can save one up to 45%. Using a 7 night MYW package at Caribbean Beach, for example, will run $3,098.31. The same accomodations with the AP room only discount will run $909.70. Since we're using the AP discount at least one member of the party will need to be an AP holder. The cost of the AP will be $412.75 (DVC discount). The rest of the party is using the 7 day MYW at the discounted rate of $229.11 ($687.33 total). The total cost is then $2,011.32. In addition the AP holder may choose to purchase TIW which provides discounts on all food items, including libations, at select locations. And then there are the additional AP/PAP/DVC merchandise discounts at select sites throughout the "World" and DTD. There is a discount ripple effect that goes beyond the limits of the DDP. The free DDP discount may be the best discount there is for someone who is the occasional WDW visitor but not for the AP/PAP holder and DVC owner. Generally the later group makes multiple trips each year allowing them to benefit from the economies of scale.

I get what you're saying. What I've learned since coming to the DVC forums is it very hard to "measure" the value of DVC membership and alot of that value is non monetary. So, I will agree that there probably isn't a huge difference between deep cash discount and using DVC points. Also, keep in mind that as a DVC member, I still get to buy a discounted AP and then get all the value of the AP (I would apply the one day ticket to my AP). And since I'd still have my points, I would have multiple trips and could take advantage of it. And little things like "free internet" (i can tether my 3g phone so that is no big deal) get offset by things like "no maid service"...I would just call them a wash. Not sure why you are mentioning AP discounts as an advantage. How is the 45% AP discount different than free dining discount?

But these are great points and why I started this thread so I thank everyone for the feedback. I think (as ususal for me) I am waaaaay over analyzing it. Once I get my DVC points, I think I am just gonna use them and enjoy...I am not going to worry about all the other stuff. I think that is the MAIN reason I want to get the DVC. Just go on the trip and enjoy it!!!

 

[dmoore22]

I am waaaaay over analyzing it. Once I get my DVC points, I think I am just gonna use them and enjoy...I am not going to worry about all the other stuff. I think that is the MAIN reason I want to get the DVC. Just go on the trip and enjoy it!!!

You are not alone in the over analysis club. Been there, done that to the point of cognitive paralysis. Once the purchase was made we suffered buyer's remorse which was cured after our first trip and the greeting of HOME!! Since we paid for our membership up front as opposed to financing it we have enjoyed the "breakeven" analysis point from day one. So, for us in our situation, the various WDW package incentives would not be cost effective, especially since we now make multiple trips (12 nights each) per year thanks to our DVC ownership. The DVC perks have actually improved since we initially purchased about ten years ago. It works for us very nicely. It may, or may not work in your situation. Hopefully it will. All the best!

 

[huskies90]

You are not alone in the over analysis club. Been there, done that to the point of cognitive paralysis. Once the purchase was made we suffered buyer's remorse which was cured after our first trip and the greeting of HOME!! Since we paid for our membership up front as opposed to financing it we have enjoyed the "breakeven" analysis point from day one. So, for us in our situation, the various WDW package incentives would not be cost effective, especially since we now make multiple trips (12 nights each) per year thanks to our DVC ownership. The DVC perks have actually improved since we initially purchased about ten years ago. It works for us very nicely. It may, or may not work in your situation. Hopefully it will. All the best!

I agree. I just put my deposit down tonight and my contracts are on their way. I too am paying cash for mine cause it is a small contract. But with the extra banked points from Disney, I am getting 3 trips in a year out of this stash. So I'll get an AP. Oh and I happen to have a conf for work in Orlando in Nov too so maybe I'll pop in for an evening then too!!

 

[Sandisw]

I agree. I just put my deposit down tonight and my contracts are on their way. I too am paying cash for mine cause it is a small contract. But with the extra banked points from Disney, I am getting 3 trips in a year out of this stash. So I'll get an AP. Oh and I happen to have a conf for work in Orlando in Nov too so maybe I'll pop in for an evening then too!!

Congratulations!! I know that once things are official and you are DVC, you will love it and enjoy it. And, all that analyzing you did will go right out the window when you experience your first bout of addonitis. I caught it in only 7 days!!!!

 

[okie from muskogee]

Just closed on a resale at BCV. Once you and the family stay at a DVC resort, you will be disappointed to stay at a moderate or value resort. At least that's our experience. We've stayed at BCV, VWL, SSR, OKW so far by renting points and through a previous SSR purchase through Disney which I subsequently sold so I could buy BCV!! We very much prefer the 2 bedroom villas over hotel rooms. Buy resale, it's cheaper.