Seriously backwards thinking....

[Poohlove]

@pat fan it is the me for me mindset.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

A woman (an RN no less) had a pap smear and it came back "very abnormal". Because she has a high deductible health plan, her coverage does not pay for anything until she reaches here deductible. So, she would have to pay for the additional tests. She says she cannot afford them so she chooses to not have the tests. She now wonders if she has an undiagnosed cancer that will take her away from her 4 children.

She's saying she "can't afford to have the tests". She's a mother of 4 and I say how can she afford to not have those tests?

What in the world is she thinking?!?!?

She is thinking "I have a $2800 deductible and the hospital won't do the diagnostic tests until I pay the deductable up front. I can't pay it, so I guess I''m not doing the tests. I really hope that I don't have cancer because it would suck if I did and wasn't here for my 4 kids just because I didn't have the money to pay for early diagnosis and the hospital refused to do it without my payment first. Oh....and I make $85K a year with my DH so any sort of public aid help is not going to happen because technically on paper I should be able to afford a $2800 deductable. No matter that I have a house, taxes, cars, insurance, kids, and other bills to pay, too."

DO NOT JUDGE. You have NO idea what she isn't telling you. You only know what you she is telling you.

 

[Pooh2]

The OP's first post sounds verbatim from a female RN audience participant in town hall style debate on CNN between two politicians earlier this week.

These crazy high deductibles that have come with "Healthcare Reform" the past 7 or so years are a stressful burden to most middle class families and result in people being hesitant to seek medical care for fear of drowning in endless debt.

 

[pat fan]

@pat fan it is the me for me mindset.

What??? I still don't understand, but if you're saying that me wanting to have the choice of what kind of insurance I am paying for is a "me first, to heck with someone else" mindset, you are incorrect. I won't expand on that since I don't know if that is what you meant or not. If you can't explain better, I guess that's that.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I can't actually think of a time when it was better for everyone (versus better for some) in the US...

If I go back to the 70's, I'm thinking of the stories my mum told me about the very scary public hospitals (and why she wouldn't give birth in the Catholic one).

Further back than that, and we're looking at segregated care for blacks and whites. And testing/experimentation done without people's consent.

I'm not sure when the Golden Age of American Health Care would have been.

My old butcher told me when his kid was born (around 1970 IIRC), his wife spent a week in the hospital & at the end of the week he wrote a check for the full amount of the delivery & her stay just as one would for say a set of tires today. Butcher isn't exactly a high-paying job, but it was well within his means. Today, that stay would probably be the equivalent of several times a butcher's annual salary.

And therein lies the problem.

 

[Lilacs4Me]

The OP's first post sounds verbatim from a female RN audience participant in town hall style debate on CNN between two politicians earlier this week.

These crazy high deductibles that have come with "Healthcare Reform" the past 7 or so years are a stressful burden to most middle class families and result in people being hesitant to seek medical care for fear of drowning in endless debt.

Yup. We had to put off surgery for our DS16 last year for a few months until we saved the deductible because 1.) it was $5000, and 2. neither the surgeon or the hospital would schedule the surgery without the full payment. They said too many people were getting treatment, then not paying their bills after so up-front collection of fees on HDP's were now mandatory. And 3. it was the end of the year and we had just made a big payment on his braces, so my HSA account was low.

Our OOP was $8500, and 20% after the deductible, so after paying the $5000, we got a bill a month later for the other $3500 since the total bill was over $25K.

I once needed some routine testing done(that was covered under preventative care) that ended up coming back needing additional testing, and since it was at the end of the year and going into the next year, the deductible was in effect again and I ended up paying another $2500 OOP just to be told that the results were negative. Great for me, but horrible for my finances.

DH and I make in the low six-figures, and we pay over $13,000 a year for premiums and HSA/FSA accounts and STILL have a hard time meeting our health care costs. And this year, DH was kicked off of my coverage and had to get his own through his own employer - adding $50 more/week to premiums and an additional $1300 deductible for himself while the kids and I still have the $5000 one on my insurance. It makes me sick. And the only thing that sucks more than not getting the care that YOU need, is having to tell your child that the care he needs will be delayed because you have to save for your deductible.

 

[jt'smom]

I think saving a woman's life so she can be there for her children is very meaningful. How is that not meaningful? I lost my mother when I was very young so I KNOW what it is like to grow to adulthood without your mother.

It might save someone else's. They may read this thread and think "Yeah, I really do need to get that test."

Aye, there's the rub. No I don't know this woman but I would hazard to guess that she actually does have the funds for further tests. She is an RN in Florida and from what I can find, the mean salary for an RN in Florida is about $65,000.

I'll say it again. If the other option is to leave your children without their mother, how can she afford to NOT have the tests and treatment?

Damn right I'm judging her. I lost my mother when I was young and this woman CAN do something to help ensure that doesn't happen to her children and she's not doing it. I'm angry on behalf of her children.

If I were the sick parent, that is absolutely what I would expect my daughter to do to ensure she is there for my grandchildren.

The consideration here is for her children. She can't do a damn thing for her children if she isn't there. So, she needs to take steps to help ensure that she is there. That means looking after her own health.

Taking care of yourself is an important part of taking care of someone else. A lot of people seem to ignore that.

Then I guess I just shouldn't care if she dies and her children are without their mother. If she's going to die she'd better do it a decrease the surplus population.

I think that getting people thinking and talking was a good thing. I do think it is sad that so many don't believe thinking and talking about issues helps anything. If you don't think and talk, where do you think progress comes from?

I'm going to bite on this one, even though I have to believe this is a gleeful, little pot-stirring post. I say this because I can't believe any one person who wants to portray that they have a hard-on for this particular issue would show such a lack of understanding and empathy. That said, I was dx'd with a brainstem tumor when my son was 5. They told me to go home and "do my will"... no kidding, exact words. Since was in 2002 when insurance was overall much better for most people, I sent my MRI scans to 6 different top brain tumor centers in the U.S. to get as many opinions as possible. I ended up going with one them for a biopsy and a treatment plan. For the first 5 years after surgery, I dutifully had my scans done every 3 months, paying my minimal copay. Then circumstances changed. I no longer had decent insurance. I dropped back to yearly scans, against doctor's orders, which caused my Neuro-oncologist to drop me. Go forward a few more years, I move to Florida. Palm Beach County to be exact. By this time, I can't work because of my tumor, so we are a one income family. My husband is a long-cycle commissioned salesperson, so no base salary. You go through dry times, and you better darn well manage your money to cover months where you don't have a penny rolling in, even though you're working. Anyway, we have crap insurance and for me to get my MRI, I have to pay $750 up front. According to you, I'm obviously a craptastic parent who would rather die on my kid, if i don't cough up money I actually might not have sitting in my checking or savings account. Then you throw in if she's gonna die it should be to decrease surplus population? Really?!

You posit that this woman should make 65K since she's a nurse, even though you have no facts whatsoever about her personal life. I can speak with personal experience as a Florida resident in a very high cost county, 65K is squat and means nothing, just to try and cover basic living expenses. But that point is moot anyway. You are hurling a lot of personal insults and judgements about a person you know nothing about, based on your own knowledge of the situation, which is also squat. Even for a troll-like post, this is pretty mean-spirited and petty. Even by Disboard's standards. Sounds to me like you might need a little therapy to deal with dealing with the trauma of losing your mother early in life. And this comes from a mom who celebrated every year on her kid's birthday that she lived to see it. If I had died when he was younger, and somehow known that he blamed me for it, well, then that would literally haunt me for my eternity. I'm sad for you, not the lady that can't afford her tests. Dealing with health issues is very difficult and scary and you don't have a choice. Having no empathy is by choice.

 

[Pixiedustaway]

I'd ask for the pap to be done again. An abnormal pap is pretty common. However if that was Already done, I'd find a way to pay. Borrow or whatever but I'd never not have it done

 

[Pooh2]

Yup. We had to put off surgery for our DS16 last year for a few months until we saved the deductible because 1.) it was $5000, and 2. neither the surgeon or the hospital would schedule the surgery without the full payment. They said too many people were getting treatment, then not paying their bills after so up-front collection of fees on HDP's were now mandatory. And 3. it was the end of the year and we had just made a big payment on his braces, so my HSA account was low.

I had this happen at the end of 2015 for shoulder surgery. The surgeon required my bill was paid in full 7 days in advance of the surgery to guarantee my surgical date. The surgery was in November, hit my $5,000 and got to start fresh with the deductible in January for Physical Therapy.

 

[Poohlove]

What??? I still don't understand, but if you're saying that me wanting to have the choice of what kind of insurance I am paying for is a "me first, to heck with someone else" mindset, you are incorrect. I won't expand on that since I don't know if that is what you meant or not. If you can't explain better, I guess that's that.

Your premiums pay for more than just your personal insurance, they contribute to the claims of others. You aren't capped for coverage based only on what you pay. Do you really think that insurance would be more affordable if we could order off of a menu the coverages we want. For example, the pennies you would save cutting out maternity care would turn into dollars spent tailoring insurance plans to everyone's individual needs.

 

[DizBelle]

I'm going to bite on this one, even though I have to believe this is a gleeful, little pot-stirring post. I say this because I can't believe any one person who wants to portray that they have a hard-on for this particular issue would show such a lack of understanding and empathy. That said, I was dx'd with a brainstem tumor when my son was 5. They told me to go home and "do my will"... no kidding, exact words. Since was in 2002 when insurance was overall much better for most people, I sent my MRI scans to 6 different top brain tumor centers in the U.S. to get as many opinions as possible. I ended up going with one them for a biopsy and a treatment plan. For the first 5 years after surgery, I dutifully had my scans done every 3 months, paying my minimal copay. Then circumstances changed. I no longer had decent insurance. I dropped back to yearly scans, against doctor's orders, which caused my Neuro-oncologist to drop me. Go forward a few more years, I move to Florida. Palm Beach County to be exact. By this time, I can't work because of my tumor, so we are a one income family. My husband is a long-cycle commissioned salesperson, so no base salary. You go through dry times, and you better darn well manage your money to cover months where you don't have a penny rolling in, even though you're working. Anyway, we have crap insurance and for me to get my MRI, I have to pay $750 up front. According to you, I'm obviously a craptastic parent who would rather die on my kid, if i don't cough up money I actually might not have sitting in my checking or savings account. Then you throw in if she's gonna die it should be to decrease surplus population? Really?!

You posit that this woman should make 65K since she's a nurse, even though you have no facts whatsoever about her personal life. I can speak with personal experience as a Florida resident in a very high cost county, 65K is squat and means nothing, just to try and cover basic living expenses. But that point is moot anyway. You are hurling a lot of personal insults and judgements about a person you know nothing about, based on your own knowledge of the situation, which is also squat. Even for a troll-like post, this is pretty mean-spirited and petty. Even by Disboard's standards. Sounds to me like you might need a little therapy to deal with dealing with the trauma of losing your mother early in life. And this comes from a mom who celebrated every year on her kid's birthday that she lived to see it. If I had died when he was younger, and somehow known that he blamed me for it, well, then that would literally haunt me for my eternity. I'm sad for you, not the lady that can't afford her tests. Dealing with health issues is very difficult and scary and you don't have a choice. Having no empathy is by choice.

Re: Bolded - I was quoting A Christmas Carol because this is what people think I should be believing. This is not what I believe.

 

[jt'smom]

Re: Bolded - I was quoting A Christmas Carol because this is what people think I should be believing. This is not what I believe.

You don't have to defend your beliefs, lol. You put them out there loud and proud, so you might as well own them!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

The OP's first post sounds verbatim from a female RN audience participant in town hall style debate on CNN between two politicians earlier this week.

These crazy high deductibles that have come with "Healthcare Reform" the past 7 or so years are a stressful burden to most middle class families and result in people being hesitant to seek medical care for fear of drowning in endless debt.

Can you either post a link or give more info about this?

I'm going to bite on this one, even though I have to believe this is a gleeful, little pot-stirring post. I say this because I can't believe any one person who wants to portray that they have a hard-on for this particular issue would show such a lack of understanding and empathy. That said, I was dx'd with a brainstem tumor when my son was 5. They told me to go home and "do my will"... no kidding, exact words. Since was in 2002 when insurance was overall much better for most people, I sent my MRI scans to 6 different top brain tumor centers in the U.S. to get as many opinions as possible. I ended up going with one them for a biopsy and a treatment plan. For the first 5 years after surgery, I dutifully had my scans done every 3 months, paying my minimal copay. Then circumstances changed. I no longer had decent insurance. I dropped back to yearly scans, against doctor's orders, which caused my Neuro-oncologist to drop me. Go forward a few more years, I move to Florida. Palm Beach County to be exact. By this time, I can't work because of my tumor, so we are a one income family. My husband is a long-cycle commissioned salesperson, so no base salary. You go through dry times, and you better darn well manage your money to cover months where you don't have a penny rolling in, even though you're working. Anyway, we have crap insurance and for me to get my MRI, I have to pay $750 up front. According to you, I'm obviously a craptastic parent who would rather die on my kid, if i don't cough up money I actually might not have sitting in my checking or savings account. Then you throw in if she's gonna die it should be to decrease surplus population? Really?!

You posit that this woman should make 65K since she's a nurse, even though you have no facts whatsoever about her personal life. I can speak with personal experience as a Florida resident in a very high cost county, 65K is squat and means nothing, just to try and cover basic living expenses. But that point is moot anyway. You are hurling a lot of personal insults and judgements about a person you know nothing about, based on your own knowledge of the situation, which is also squat. Even for a troll-like post, this is pretty mean-spirited and petty. Even by Disboard's standards. Sounds to me like you might need a little therapy to deal with dealing with the trauma of losing your mother early in life. And this comes from a mom who celebrated every year on her kid's birthday that she lived to see it. If I had died when he was younger, and somehow known that he blamed me for it, well, then that would literally haunt me for my eternity. I'm sad for you, not the lady that can't afford her tests. Dealing with health issues is very difficult and scary and you don't have a choice. Having no empathy is by choice.

Wow. I understand somewhat, as I was also diagnosed with invasive, high grade cancer (breast) when my twins were 5. Not a nice place to be. And I also had good insurance then, thankfully. Things are so different today. I began to have follow-up MRI payments denied, and had to delay and write appeals and all that (which were denied, until I changed insurance companies). I also got slapped with charges for going to the same place I'd always gone to for mammograms, since it was now out of network. Things like that. It's very frustrating when you're dealing with something like this and/or trying to do follow up care. But you have me beat, having a brain stem tumor must have just been devastating. I wish we knew eachother then. (I was dx'd in 2003.) Congratulations for having beaten it, and being there for your son. It was my greatest worry, as well. And to think, now they're in college!

 

[DizBelle]

I'm going to bite on this one, even though I have to believe this is a gleeful, little pot-stirring post. I say this because I can't believe any one person who wants to portray that they have a hard-on for this particular issue would show such a lack of understanding and empathy. That said, I was dx'd with a brainstem tumor when my son was 5. They told me to go home and "do my will"... no kidding, exact words. Since was in 2002 when insurance was overall much better for most people, I sent my MRI scans to 6 different top brain tumor centers in the U.S. to get as many opinions as possible. I ended up going with one them for a biopsy and a treatment plan. For the first 5 years after surgery, I dutifully had my scans done every 3 months, paying my minimal copay. Then circumstances changed. I no longer had decent insurance. I dropped back to yearly scans, against doctor's orders, which caused my Neuro-oncologist to drop me. Go forward a few more years, I move to Florida. Palm Beach County to be exact. By this time, I can't work because of my tumor, so we are a one income family. My husband is a long-cycle commissioned salesperson, so no base salary. You go through dry times, and you better darn well manage your money to cover months where you don't have a penny rolling in, even though you're working. Anyway, we have crap insurance and for me to get my MRI, I have to pay $750 up front. According to you, I'm obviously a craptastic parent who would rather die on my kid, if i don't cough up money I actually might not have sitting in my checking or savings account. Then you throw in if she's gonna die it should be to decrease surplus population? Really?!

You posit that this woman should make 65K since she's a nurse, even though you have no facts whatsoever about her personal life. I can speak with personal experience as a Florida resident in a very high cost county, 65K is squat and means nothing, just to try and cover basic living expenses. But that point is moot anyway. You are hurling a lot of personal insults and judgements about a person you know nothing about, based on your own knowledge of the situation, which is also squat. Even for a troll-like post, this is pretty mean-spirited and petty. Even by Disboard's standards. Sounds to me like you might need a little therapy to deal with dealing with the trauma of losing your mother early in life. And this comes from a mom who celebrated every year on her kid's birthday that she lived to see it. If I had died when he was younger, and somehow known that he blamed me for it, well, then that would literally haunt me for my eternity. I'm sad for you, not the lady that can't afford her tests. Dealing with health issues is very difficult and scary and you don't have a choice. Having no empathy is by choice.

I have loads of empathy.

 

[sunshinehighway]

Re: Bolded - I was quoting A Christmas Carol because this is what people think I should be believing. This is not what I believe.

Nobody said anything close to that. You just aren't getting what posters are telling you. Many of us are telling you that you have absolutely no right to judge this woman the way you are. You are being mean and lacking compassion You refuse to understand that many times people have to make difficult decisions and it doesn't mean they are stupid or selfish or don't care about their kids.

 

[Pooh2]

Can you either post a link or give more info about this?

Google CNN Healthcare Debate, I think it was on Tuesday night of this week.

 

[DizBelle]

Nobody said anything close to that. You just aren't getting what posters are telling you. Many of us are telling you that you have absolutely no right to judge this woman the way you are. You are being mean and lacking compassion You refuse to understand that many times people have to make difficult decisions and it doesn't mean they are stupid or selfish or don't care about their kids.

I do get that people have to make difficult decisions. However, this decision is not a difficult one. Especially if you have children, you need to take care of your health. If you get an abnormal pap smear, you get the further tests and treatment if necessary. You figure out how to get it done. You don't ignore it and hope for the best.

I would do all of these if I were in this situation:
Move to less expensive housing - yes
Sell car and get less expensive car - yes
Nix all kids extracurricular activities - yes
Shop at thrift stores - yes
Stop dining out - yes

There are ways to keep more money so you have it for these types of expenses.

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

She probably had the Pap because it was covered under "preventive care". It's why many people will now skip even their basic preventive care. No need to turn over the rock if you can't afford to take care of what you find under it.

I'm even skipping the covered "preventive care" tests and exams. My old doctor doesn't take the new insurance (DH's company changed insurance companies two years ago because the other insurance company pulled out of FL completely). For me to go to a doctor that does take the new insurance means a "new patient" fee plus a $3500 deductible BEFORE any coverage kicks in. Or go to the old doctor, and pay the same. Not doable because all our money available for health care goes into paying for DH's immunosupprescents/doctor visits/labs/etc. (And that's $3500 per person, $10000 family...)

I do make sure DS gets a check up once a year, but his pediatrician has been on all our insurances so far. Plus the office has an adult practice now, that will accept him as "established".

 

[pat fan]

Your premiums pay for more than just your personal insurance, they contribute to the claims of others. You aren't capped for coverage based only on what you pay. Do you really think that insurance would be more affordable if we could order off of a menu the coverages we want. For example, the pennies you would save cutting out maternity care would turn into dollars spent tailoring insurance plans to everyone's individual needs.

I'm not saying pick coverage a la carts per se, but yes, there SHOULD be options or levels of insurance. I firmly believe that. This is America, we're supposed to be free, not dictated to.

 

[sunshinehighway]

I have loads of empathy.

No you don't. With each post you are only proving that you don't.

I do get that people have to make difficult decisions. However, this decision is not a difficult one. Especially if you have children, you need to take care of your health. If you get an abnormal pap smear, you get the further tests and treatment if necessary. You figure out how to get it done. You don't ignore it and hope for the best.

I would do all of these if I were in this situation:
Move to less expensive housing - yes
Sell car and get less expensive car - yes
Nix all kids extracurricular activities - yes
Shop at thrift stores - yes
Stop dining out - yes

There are ways to keep more money so you have it for these types of expenses.