Sell me on an SSR contract for "Sleep around" points

[skier_pete]

You have BWV for F&W stays and can use AKL for the fall, too. So this becomes about the spring sleep around. The current cost per point, per year, is $9.40 for $105 purchase price for Saratoga. BLT at $150 is $10.06, Poly at $155 is $10.06 and AKL at $110 is $10.33. (All numbers using current MFs). You said you aren't terribly interested in having a home resort priority for BLT or POLY. It's going to cost you an extra $150 per year over the contract to go with AKL over SSR. How much do you love AKL? I went through this same thought process for my first resale contract....awaiting ROFR on AKL. There's just a little more of an advantage to having AKL over SSR, including higher rent if you need to do that.

All the advice has been great - but this post tickles my Left Brain. I do cost basis points this same way - though my AKV cost comes to about $10.44 because there are also closing costs added to the cost of the purchase - but I get where you are coming from here.

The cost difference as you list between SSR and AKV becomes almost entirely about the MF though - with the buy-in actually being a little less for the AKV (I get $3.00 for the AKV, and $3.12 for SSR based on $105 a point but 3 less years.)

That said, my AKV contract bought in 2014 has a current cost basis of only $9.29, while our BWV contract is $12.09. An SSR contract at $105 giving my $9.40 per point would be very much in line with the price we are paying at AKV at the moment. Looking at it THIS way gives me really something to think about.

 

[skier_pete]

You definitely shouldn't buy SSR points if you are really against staying there. I was there in Feb, and while it wasn't BLT, we enjoyed our stay. Not my first choice, but also not "ugh, Saratoga".

I wouldn't quite say "Ugh Saratoga" but it wouldn't be my favorite.

Another argument I thought in favor of some Saratoga points - if I own AKV points and I want a "last minute" (<6 months) trip and I have to use my AKV points to stay at Saratoga, I would be annoyed. If I had to use Saratoga Points to stay at Saratoga - I might be more "OK - at least I'm not "losing" on this transaction.

If you don't plan on staying at SSR EVER, don't buy there. It may be your only option sometimes. My points are all at AKV and I had a value studio for 10 days over Halloween (the unicorn of all the rooms during the busiest time for DVC), but I had to give it up because I had more family coming and needed a 1 bedroom. My only option? SSR. I didn't mind I had to do that, but if you would, then those are not the points you are looking for

"Ever" is a long time - but the goal would be to avoid it. But yeah - as I said above - if I have to make a late-game change - I wouldn't feel as bad about it if I'm doing it with SSR points.

 

[Jedi Dad]

Another argument I thought in favor of some Saratoga points - if I own AKV points and I want a "last minute" (<6 months) trip and I have to use my AKV points to stay at Saratoga, I would be annoyed. If I had to use Saratoga Points to stay at Saratoga - I might be more "OK - at least I'm not "losing" on this transaction.

"Ever" is a long time - but the goal would be to avoid it. But yeah - as I said above - if I have to make a late-game change - I wouldn't feel as bad about it if I'm doing it with SSR points.

I can definitely appreciate this logic. It's like a mind game you're playing against yourself... and your-future-self...

I will stay tuned to see who wins. Pete, Pete or Future-Pete.

 

[Bing Showei]

If they are truly “Sleep Around” points, than it shouldn’t matter because you will be booking at 7 months anyway, right?

This is a legitimate point; that at 7 months, a point is a point is a point.

Not to turn this into Riviera discussion, but I think Riviera is a significant enough departure from standard, historical Disney timeshare practice, that it cannot be ignored when discussing anything Disney timeshare. For me, the argument for buying where you want to stay (and against the value proposition) is less about a commitment to buying to stay in one place, and more an indictment against buying where you have no interest in staying, which OP has framed pretty clearly is the case here, with the primary intention to trade out.

Disney has, to date, maintained a 1:1 exchange for resorts via the Buena Vista Trading Company. There is nothing that guarantees this will be done in perpetuity. To the contrary, there is clear language in the POS that this is a lever Disney can use to address any imbalance in the system, which few can argue does not currently exist.

At worst, the latest resale trading restrictions were an attempt to devalue resale contracts to push retail, at best it was just a ham-fisted attempt to find a solution for the trade imbalance. In either case, if Riviera sales are seen as being adversely affected, you can be sure there will be an attempt to find new means to either end.

Given the plan to buy SSR cheap to stay elsewhere is so ubiquitous, I suspect Disney will eventually attempt to correct it through any legal means at their disposal.

If you buy where you want to stay, Disney can’t touch you. But if you are an SSR-value-buyer who has no interest in staying there, you are likely to be left holding the bag with little recourse or sympathy from the broader Disney timeshare community.

 

[CarolMN]

....(snip).......Disney has, to date, maintained a 1:1 exchange for resorts via the Buena Vista Trading Company. There is nothing that guarantees this will be done in perpetuity. To the contrary, there is clear language in the POS that this is a lever Disney can use to address any imbalance in the system, which few can argue does not currently exist.

At worst, the latest resale trading restrictions were an attempt to devalue resale contracts to push retail, at best it was just a ham-fisted attempt to find a solution for the trade imbalance. In either case, if Riviera sales are seen as being adversely affected, you can be sure there will be an attempt to find new means to either end.

Given the plan to buy SSR cheap to stay elsewhere is so ubiquitous, I suspect Disney will eventually attempt to correct it through any legal means at their disposal.

If you buy where you want to stay, Disney can’t touch you. But if you are an SSR-value-buyer who has no interest in staying there, you are likely to be left holding the bag with little recourse or sympathy from the broader Disney timeshare community.

Truthfully, I don't understand why they didn't do something like that for Riviera and future new DVC resorts) to start with. They could have left the ability to trade alone, even for resale buyers and then just established a "conversion" chart to convert xxx resort points to Riviera points. For example, maybe it would take 3 SSR points to get 1 Riviera reservation point or 2 BWV points to get 1 Riviera reservation point or 1 VGF point to get 1 Riviera reservation point, etc. Then 1 Riviera point could get you x "Legacy 14 or OTU" 7 month points. Conversions would be final transactions, just like banking or borrowing

IMO, that would favor direct sales for the new resorts, make the older resorts' points less valuable, and eliminate the need for the Riviera resale restrictions.

I suppose they could establish a "new" version of Buena VIsta Trading Company and implement something like that in the future. If so, that's another risk for buying points when you really do not want to stay at that resort.

 

[Katie L]

Pete - I think you should just buy more AKV. $109 didn't pass this time - but a fair number of them are passing at that price or even lower per the ROFR thread. Just keep trying!

 

[GGGT]

We have points at 4 properties.

Three of the four we usually use for the 11 month window at VGF, PVB, and VWL (BRV).

We also have a bunch of SSR points we use as "Sleep around points". We book any and everywhere with these at the 7 month mark. On several occasions using them (Often 3 Rooms at a time) for PVB , BWV, AKV, SSR, VWL and most recently for a VGF - 1 BR coming up on 9/14.

They provide us great value.

 

[DM3MD]

They could have ... just established a "conversion" chart to convert xxx resort points to Riviera points. For example, maybe it would take 3 SSR points to get 1 Riviera reservation point or 2 BWV points to get 1 Riviera reservation point or 1 VGF point to get 1 Riviera reservation point, etc.

I think they are kind of doing that by inflating the point charts for Riviera (and I assume future resorts)... in terms of location and park access, Riviera is on the lower end... not as isolated as OKW or Saratoga, but certainly less ideal than most other resorts. However, a standard view Riviera studio is on par in point cost with Copper Creek or Polynesian. I think we'll see the cost per point AND point per room continue to inflate with each new DVC build. Kind of a "sure you can use your SSR points here, but it will cost you" approach

 

[CanadaDisney05]

not as isolated as OKW or Saratoga, but certainly less ideal than most other resorts.

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but from my understanding, Riviera is going to have very quick access to Hollywood Studios & Epcot for parks, as well as Boardwalk, Beach & Yacht Club, Caribbean Beach, Pop Century, & Art of Animation for food and entertainment options. Maybe not as good access as BWV, or BCV, but it seems to me that this may be the next best resort in terms of location/transportation.

Of course, this depends on what you think of the skyliner.

 

[kboo]

Caribbean Beach, Pop Century, & Art of Animation for food and entertainment options

I also think some of the "DVC Snobs"* would say that they don't care about these options.

*there is a thread I am too lazy to link to, by this title.

 

[bwvBound]

4) I was excited to get my AKV contract and my BWV contract. Not sure I would be at all excited about this contract. Does that alone say I should stay away?

Even as I write this I can't see myself buying SSR points - so i really debated deleting this post -

Don’t do it. Re-read the snippet I quoted, take a deep breath and start over in your (much loved) planning.

FWIW, I once let my parents talk me out of a truck I wanted (the Suburu Brat, for those that recall) and into a “sensible/appropriate” Datsun 210. I never loved the Datsun. Never. From that point forward, my car shopping rules started: “Do NOT buy a car (truck) that doesn’t make you smile.” My next vehicle, a Ford Bronco, made me smile. My back-to-back Pontiac Bonnevilles made me s-m-i-l-e (an especially wide smile). My Toyota FJ Cruiser makes me smile.

Somewhere, along the way, we broke the rule when we purchased the Buick Rendezvous. That vehicle made so much sense on paper, is so practical, has been so reliable and marvelous ... it breaks my heart that I just don’t love it. (Still have it ... it is, after all, a beautiful workhorse for 7 with leather seats. I can also fit 4 bales of hay inside, and do so often, but what a mess!!)

Don’t do it, Pete. Set your spreadsheets aside and follow your heart. It is OK to follow your heart. Really.

DISCLAIMER: We own 3 contracts at SSR as our only DVC. We went into the deal knowing we wanted 200 points at BWV with Dec-UY and allowed ourselves to be talked into buying 160 points at SSR with Oct-UY as our first contract in May 2004. Turns out, we’ve been OK. We even like SSR and love the Treehouses. We’ve been successfully using these as sleep-around points ... but my experiences don’t matter. If your heart is cold to it ... don’t go farther. Stop. Listen to your heart.

 

[skier_pete]

If your heart is cold to it ... don’t go farther. Stop. Listen to your heart.

Damn it - now I have this stuck in my head. If I'm going to suffer - so are the rest of you.

 

[skippytx]

I wouldn't quite say "Ugh Saratoga" but it wouldn't be my favorite.

Another argument I thought in favor of some Saratoga points - if I own AKV points and I want a "last minute" (<6 months) trip and I have to use my AKV points to stay at Saratoga, I would be annoyed. If I had to use Saratoga Points to stay at Saratoga - I might be more "OK - at least I'm not "losing" on this transaction.

I can see that. I had some extra 2019 points I didn't have plans to use, and my wife and I decided about 4 months out to visit WDW for our 10 year anniversary. SSR Preferred was the only studio available for our trip. Using BLT points at SSR was less than ideal, but we had a nice adults only trip so in the end it was worth it. I'm definitely looking ahead to next Feb and being back at BLT.

 

[kboo]

I can see that. I had some extra 2019 points I didn't have plans to use, and my wife and I decided about 4 months out to visit WDW for our 10 year anniversary. SSR Preferred was the only studio available for our trip. Using BLT points at SSR was less than ideal, but we had a nice adults only trip so in the end it was worth it. I'm definitely looking ahead to next Feb and being back at BLT.

I have a counterpoint to that: last year we booked the TS play time event for AP holders, and went to WDW on about 4 weeks' notice. We had BLT and VGF points we could use to stay in a studio or 1br at SSR, and we decided to use Marriott points to stay at the Swan instead. We're "saving" and banking the BLT points to use at BLT or somewhere else instead.

 

[The Jackal]

Truthfully, I don't understand why they didn't do something like that for Riviera and future new DVC resorts) to start with. They could have left the ability to trade alone, even for resale buyers and then just established a "conversion" chart to convert xxx resort points to Riviera points. For example, maybe it would take 3 SSR points to get 1 Riviera reservation point or 2 BWV points to get 1 Riviera reservation point or 1 VGF point to get 1 Riviera reservation point, etc. Then 1 Riviera point could get you x "Legacy 14 or OTU" 7 month points. Conversions would be final transactions, just like banking or borrowing

IMO, that would favor direct sales for the new resorts, make the older resorts' points less valuable, and eliminate the need for the Riviera resale restrictions.

I suppose they could establish a "new" version of Buena VIsta Trading Company and implement something like that in the future. If so, that's another risk for buying points when you really do not want to stay at that resort.

My guess why they didn’t do that is because the resort is already very point hungry for a view of a moderate resort. If you needed 2 points to equal 1 RIV point, I don’t think many people would trade in.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

My Toyota FJ Cruiser makes me smile.

Just to say - my FJ Cruiser makes me smile too!!!

 

[Jedi Dad]

This is a legitimate point; that at 7 months, a point is a point is a point.

I guess the better way I should have said it is:

If you are “sleeping around” in 1BR’s, at 7 months, a point is a point; So buy the best value.

If you are “sleeping around” in Studios, at 7 months, a point is still a point, but you better like your Home Resort. So buy the best valued resort you actually want to stay at.

 

[Jedi Dad]

Don’t do it. Re-read the snippet I quoted, take a deep breath and start over in your (much loved) planning.

FWIW, I once let my parents talk me out of a truck I wanted (the Suburu Brat, for those that recall) and into a “sensible/appropriate” Datsun 210. I never loved the Datsun. Never. From that point forward, my car shopping rules started: “Do NOT buy a car (truck) that doesn’t make you smile.” My next vehicle, a Ford Bronco, made me smile. My back-to-back Pontiac Bonnevilles made me s-m-i-l-e (an especially wide smile). My Toyota FJ Cruiser makes me smile.

Somewhere, along the way, we broke the rule when we purchased the Buick Rendezvous. That vehicle made so much sense on paper, is so practical, has been so reliable and marvelous ... it breaks my heart that I just don’t love it. (Still have it ... it is, after all, a beautiful workhorse for 7 with leather seats. I can also fit 4 bales of hay inside, and do so often, but what a mess!!)

Don’t do it, Pete. Set your spreadsheets aside and follow your heart. It is OK to follow your heart. Really.

DISCLAIMER: We own 3 contracts at SSR as our only DVC. We went into the deal knowing we wanted 200 points at BWV with Dec-UY and allowed ourselves to be talked into buying 160 points at SSR with Oct-UY as our first contract in May 2004. Turns out, we’ve been OK. We even like SSR and love the Treehouses. We’ve been successfully using these as sleep-around points ... but my experiences don’t matter. If your heart is cold to it ... don’t go farther. Stop. Listen to your heart.

I should have made a similar disclaimer. We broke that rule as well this year, buying at SSR for the value when we knew the rooms didn’t make us smile. But now with the images of the refurbishment starting to surface, we LOVE the new rooms and are now starting to smile. So things can change for the better.

With that being said, the inverse can happen as well. I have read the comments of many people who love the SSR rooms for the same reasons that I do not. So you could buy somewhere and in 14 years, they do a full hard goods refurbishment, and it doesn’t feel the same.

 

[skier_pete]

Thank you everyone for all the great responses. I am still rather torn at the idea, but I do think for now I am going to hold off on SSR and wait a little longer for the "ideal" AKV contract. In the end - it does come down to that "makes me smile" idea - and I am not sure the SSR contract would really do that - so perhaps that extra money is money well spent. Hopefully some contracts come up soon!

 

[aoconnor]

Thank you everyone for all the great responses. I am still rather torn at the idea, but I do think for now I am going to hold off on SSR and wait a little longer for the "ideal" AKV contract. In the end - it does come down to that "makes me smile" idea - and I am not sure the SSR contract would really do that - so perhaps that extra money is money well spent. Hopefully some contracts come up soon!

I saw the one you had taken was stripped at $109. I'd go for a full or loaded contract and rent out the points. You could buy one with full 2019 points for $116 and be at the same place (rent for $14.50 through David's less $7.44 MF) or a fully loaded one for $125+ (rent the 19 points for the same, plus get maybe $10pp for the banked points)

Good luck!