Security & had a thought.....

[BradyBz12]

Really sorry to hear that.
Unfortunately theft - and in particular cart chargers - is becoming a real problem at the Fort these days.

When we arrived last month and picked up our cart from Kenny he said he'd had 4 stolen in recent weeks.

DH had heard about the recent problems (from what I'd read here) and brought a heavy chain to lock both the charger and our inverter to the cart.

A real shame. I would have hoped that with the new parking configuration Disney would have taken it as an opportunity to REALLY improve security, but the fact is that anyone can talk their way past the gate (legitimately or not) and once they're in, they're in.

And you've got to assume anything stolen from the Outpost is a result of people getting past the gate who really don't belong there.

Although weirdly, one morning one of the CMs that goes around in the cart doing cleanup, trash, etc. stopped DH in the street and asked him if he wanted to buy a charger he had. Our Kenny Cart was the tan one with striped seats, so he probably assumed it was our personal cart.

I try not to let my suspicious mind get the better of me, but knowing what I did about charger thefts, it did give me pause.

DH gave him Kenny's number to call to see if he needed another charger.

Maybe if enough Disney chargers go missing they'll actually do something.

 

[clkelley]

..........

 

[Disney John]

Golf Cart charger stolen from cart parked at Outpost this week Unfortunately we were not aware of theft issues at the Fort.

I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I recently had my charger stolen as well from the outpost area, so I know exactly how you feel. It stinks. Unfortunately, the worst feeling (for us) was the uncaring way we were treated by the disney managers when we reported these thefts. They actually made me feel like I was burden to them because I reported it. Because of the way I was treated by them I cancelled my 5 weeks for 2011 that I had reserved (3 ressies) and cancelled my 4 annual passes. We will not give Disney our money again for quite a while.

It's sad to see that Mr. Martin and his managers are still ignoring the problem, hoping it will go away.

 

[menamechris]

I know I am a little late to the discussion, but had to pass along some thoughts to everyone. I understand and agree with all of the comments, but for those of us who are locals and frequent WDW, we tend to see things a little different. There are some things to remember when it comes things like this.

1) Any and all things that require any type of money to pacify guests will be passed on to the guests. Its true, the management of Disney really has no reason to care whether there are non-Fort guests using the pool. And it will only cost money to try to enforce rules during special events (i.e. wristbands). Management will listen to you - and if enough of a stink is made may do something - but the real question is whether it is worth it is guests for their nightly site rate to go up about 25%.

2) Disney has set up the entire resort so that there are few restrictions for any guest. I am sure if you search these threads there are people who are upset that they paid to stay at the Poly, but couldn't get a reservation at 'Ohana, because "non-resort guests" took them all. The privilege to staying at Disney resorts is not exclusive rights to the amenities of that resort (with the exception of pools), but the excitement of staying on property, period.

3) Fort Wilderness is a huge place for locals on the weekends. I know that many locals will go to the Fort to rent bikes, grab lunch, hike, rent boats, even maybe a horseback ride. There is no reason for a local to stay there, but Disney needs the money to sustain those offerings to everyone. (There is a reason we get discounts as Passholders). My partner and I spend easily $100 a weekend doing different things at Disney outside of the parks, whether it be eating or recreational. This isn't terribly uncommon for people who live here. Limiting access or trying to restrict access to areas makes it a hassle, less people will do it, and then that money is lost, and services/activities are scaled down. Believe me, during slow seasons, Disney counts on its frequent visitors to keep many things going.

4) And finally, I am the first to point out when I am frustrated with people breaking rules or being inconsiderate. BUT, its a fact of life. Disney does not want to be in the positon of having to train its employees to deal with unruly visitors if asked to leave. And more importantly, they don't want you to see a spectacle. They would rather you be a little annoyed, and get over it. Rather than be embarrassed or have a child become upset because security is dragging someone out of a park or resort for breaking a minor rule (i.e. a rule that doesn't jeopardize safety).

Do I get annoyed by people? Yes. Do I want Disney to be involved and start micromanaging its guests? Not really. We don't need crack downs. I don't want to have to explain myself everytime I do something at Disney. I don't want to have to wait in line while another guest is arguing with a cast member. The easiest thing to do is shrug your shoulders, and hope people learn to follow rules, and just be happy to be in the happiest place on earth.

 

[clkelley]

...........

 

[menamechris]

...., it only takes a couple of words for these same folks to have access to the "hallways" of my resort with their PERSONAL VEHICLE. To me that is inherently dangerous because then said vehicle could be a quick escape for any wrongdoing they may want to do.

That is TOTALLY understandable. Like you said, that is a potential safety issue. We all carry cell phones these days. I think the best thing you can do is get the number of front desk or the security shack if you know something has driven a vehicle into the campgrounds who is not staying there. I don't get it - part of the fun whenever I have visited the Fort has been the bus ride...

 

[Disney John]

1)....... Its true, the management of Disney really has no reason to care whether there are non-Fort guests using the pool. And it will only cost money to try to enforce rules during special events (i.e. wristbands). Management will listen to you - and if enough of a stink is made may do something - but the real question is whether it is worth it is guests for their nightly site rate to go up about 25%..

Management may not care, but it is obvious that the people spending their money renting sites, DO CARE.

2) Disney has set up the entire resort so that there are few restrictions for any guest. I am sure if you search these threads there are people who are upset that they paid to stay at the Poly, but couldn't get a reservation at 'Ohana, because "non-resort guests" took them all. The privilege to staying at Disney resorts is not exclusive rights to the amenities of that resort (with the exception of pools), but the excitement of staying on property, period. .

No one is complaining about non-guests eating at Trails end, or renting bikes, or fishing, or renting boats.

3) Fort Wilderness is a huge place for locals on the weekends. I know that many locals will go to the Fort to rent bikes, grab lunch, hike, rent boats, even maybe a horseback ride. There is no reason for a local to stay there, but Disney needs the money to sustain those offerings to everyone. (There is a reason we get discounts as Passholders). My partner and I spend easily $100 a weekend doing different things at Disney outside of the parks, whether it be eating or recreational. This isn't terribly uncommon for people who live here. Limiting access or trying to restrict access to areas makes it a hassle, less people will do it, and then that money is lost, and services/activities are scaled down. Believe me, during slow seasons, Disney counts on its frequent visitors to keep many things going..

You obviously don't know much about Fort Wilderness. The Fort is packed with locals STAYING there on the weekends. Just drive through any weekend. Florida tags are everywhere. And again.... Not one person here is complaining about anyone renting boats, eating, or shopping. Why ? Because those areas are not limited to resort guests. The complaints are about Security and Non guests crowding the pools and using them as babysitters for their kids.

4) And finally, I am the first to point out when I am frustrated with people breaking rules or being inconsiderate. BUT, its a fact of life. Disney does not want to be in the positon of having to train its employees to deal with unruly visitors if asked to leave. And more importantly, they don't want you to see a spectacle. They would rather you be a little annoyed, and get over it. Rather than be embarrassed or have a child become upset because security is dragging someone out of a park or resort for breaking a minor rule (i.e. a rule that doesn't jeopardize safety)...

Well that is your opinion..... I would rather have my kids see some miscreant dragged out on his #$%, instead of having them see him allowed to do the bad deed with no consequences. I think that this attitude asks for more and more trouble, because as word gets around that there is no security at the Fort, more and more incidents will occur (already proving to be true) And if that is Disney's attitude, it didn't work on me, because I am more than a little annoyed at the lack of security. I have cancelled 4 annual passes (over $1200), cancelled 3 reservations that totalled 5 weeks ($3500), Won't be eating at the fort during those five weeks (over $1000). When enough people do the same thing, Disney will act on the security.

 

[des1954]

As the originator of this thread, I'm glad to see it back in action. Several months have passed since the new gate arrangement has been put into action. Let me tell you my personal experiences.

The card gate that is supposed to limit access to the Fort to buses and guests only, is a farce. The entrance gate is often knocked down and the entrance is wide open to anyone that wants to gain access. One time, my DH had to actually get out of his car, put his KTTW card into the reader to let a DISNEY BUS in!! So much for the transponder!

As a local resident, I do go to the Fort frequently to visit other Fiends that are staying at the Fort. When I get to the guard shack, I show my license & say I'm coming to visit friends. I have never been asked who my friends are or what site they are staying on. I have never been directed to park my vehicle and board a bus. I'm just told to "have fun". Now admittedly, I look like a harmless granny who wouldn't cause any trouble and maybe the guard is profiling me.

During Christmas time we took a friend who had never been to the Fort, to go looping (in our SUV) so he could see the uber decorations. I purposely told the guard what we were doing - never mentioned going to see a friend - but that we wanted to see the decorations. "Enjoy & have a nice time," was the response from the guard.

I've come to the conclusion that the guard is provided solely to help & direct people who are checking in, and for no other reason.

The conclusion to this story is, make sure you protect your property when you are camping at the Fort. If you are leaving your cart at one of the cart parking lots and your charger is easily accessable, leave the charger at your site under lock & key. Lock your vehicles, don't leave laptops, cell phones, or any easily snagged valuables out in open sight.

The economy has forced otherwise honest people to do things they would not ordinarily do. Unemployment in Florida is above the national average. When word hits the streets that Fort Wilderness is a place for easy pickin's, it's to be expected that stuff is going to turn up missing from sites. Seriously - people come to Disney not only to camp, but to enjoy the parks & all that Disney has to offer. Once a guest gets themselves set up, they head off for fun. During the day time, the Fort is virtually void of people. It is not a community where you know your neighbors and if I see people on the site next to me, I don't know if they should be there or not. I'm not going to challenge someone when I don't know if they belong there, or not.

Now that we are aware of the questionable shenanigans going on, don't be naive and think "it can't happen to me", cause it just might. Just take caution, use common sense, and you should be okay.

 

[menamechris]

You obviously don't know much about Fort Wilderness. The Fort is packed with locals STAYING there on the weekends. Just drive through any weekend. Florida tags are everywhere. And again.... Not one person here is complaining about anyone renting boats, eating, or shopping. Why ? Because those areas are not limited to resort guests. The complaints are about Security and Non guests crowding the pools and using them as babysitters for their kids.

I don't know much about the Fort? What? Yes, there are many people from Florida who do love camping, and will stay there on weekends. I can't argue that, but totally beside the point I was making. My point was that people WILL find a way to break the rules if they really want to. Please understand that I am in no way CONDONING this behavior. One situation that constantly annoys me is waiting in line, and ten people in a group pushing their way past me to get to their family member who has been holding their spot for an hour. This is clearly against the rules. Does it anger me? Yes. Are Disney's hands tied? Pretty much. If I was making $7.50 an hour at Disney - would I want to put myself in a situation that could escalate and not only compromise the safety of other guests, but get me fired? Umm..no. Same goes for lifeguards by the pool. I am sure they address each situation on a case by case basis.

Well that is your opinion..... I would rather have my kids see some miscreant dragged out on his #$%, instead of having them see him allowed to do the bad deed with no consequences. I think that this attitude asks for more and more trouble, because as word gets around that there is no security at the Fort, more and more incidents will occur (already proving to be true) And if that is Disney's attitude, it didn't work on me, because I am more than a little annoyed at the lack of security. I have cancelled 4 annual passes (over $1200), cancelled 3 reservations that totalled 5 weeks ($3500), Won't be eating at the fort during those five weeks (over $1000). When enough people do the same thing, Disney will act on the security.

I honestly appreciate your comments, but honestly, in reading your post, I think you anger is a little misplaced. All of us as guests have to be proactive in making sure rules are followed. Like I said before, keep the number of the front desk or the resort security in your cell phone, and call if you see something happening they need to know about. Give them a chance to correct it, or at least make you happy. Like any company, the managers and people and cast members are in charge or enforcing or not enforcing their own rules. What if tomorrow Disney decided to do away with all resort pool-hopping rules, because it was too much of a hassle to enforce? It's their company, their property, their prerogative. As far as safety concerns - like people driving through who are not staying at the fort - this is wrong. And though I would like to believe only a few slip by, it needs to be addressed. Though I understand where you are coming from, unfortunately, cancelling trips and passes will only call for MORE cut backs - and even less security. Boycotting is not really effective is situations like this - speaking with managers, writing letters, discussions like this do a lot more.

 

[menamechris]

The conclusion to this story is, make sure you protect your property when you are camping at the Fort.

The economy has forced otherwise honest people to do things they would not ordinarily do. Unemployment in Florida is above the national average. When word hits the streets that Fort Wilderness is a place for easy pickin's, it's to be expected that stuff is going to turn up missing from sites. Seriously - people come to Disney not only to camp, but to enjoy the parks & all that Disney has to offer. Once a guest gets themselves set up, they head off for fun. During the day time, the Fort is virtually void of people. It is not a community where you know your neighbors and if I see people on the site next to me, I don't know if they should be there or not. I'm not going to challenge someone when I don't know if they belong there, or not.

Now that we are aware of the questionable shenanigans going on, don't be naive and think "it can't happen to me", cause it just might. Just take caution, use common sense, and you should be okay.

I couldn't have said it any better. These are crimes of opportunity. And a lot of it could even be kids or teenagers just being bored and getting into trouble. Disney is a wonderful place - and thankfully, I have never had a problem or had something stolen when I have stayed - but when 17 million people are visiting a year - you know there are bound to be a million or so jerks to look out for.

Thank you for starting this thread! It made me very aware of a situation I otherwise would not have know about.

 

[mnsprk]

- speaking with managers, writing letters, discussions like this do a lot more.

You can always go all the way to the top:

Thomas O. Staggs
Chairman, Walt Disney Parks and Resorts
Walt Disney Co
500 S Buena Vista St
Burbank, CA 91521

 

[thecplusplusguy]

I can see Disney John's point. If these issues get much worse I don't care how Disney does as a business. It's not my job to get them to enforce their rules.

I have a fulltime job and the money I earn from it will not be given to sub par service. Yes security is part of the service they provide. If I don't like the security, I won't go. I wouldn't go into a bar in a shady part of town and start trying to kick out the drug dealers and loud mouths, I would just avoid the place. Why would I try to help Disney enforce their own rules. I understand that when someone is bothering me I can't expect them to just magically know about it. I have to call, but when nothing is done when I call that is bad service. For a hundred dollars a night for a site that is basically on top of the next site over, I expect really good service.

Dan

 

[Disney John]

...... My point was that people WILL find a way to break the rules if they really want to. Please understand that I am in no way CONDONING this behavior. One situation that constantly annoys me is waiting in line, and ten people in a group pushing their way past me to get to their family member who has been holding their spot for an hour. This is clearly against the rules. Does it anger me? Yes. Are Disney's hands tied? Pretty much. If I was making $7.50 an hour at Disney - would I want to put myself in a situation that could escalate and not only compromise the safety of other guests, but get me fired? Umm..no. Same goes for lifeguards by the pool. I am sure they address each situation on a case by case basis..

But don't you see, by not doing anything about it, you ARE condoning this behavior. That is the exact definition of condoning. (overlooking an offense or violation) By not saying something to those people, that encourages them to do it more and more ! that is exactly my point.

What if tomorrow Disney decided to do away with all resort pool-hopping rules, because it was too much of a hassle to enforce? It's their company, their property, their prerogative.

Correct, and it is my prerogative to expect them to enforce the rules that are in effect. as long as they are in effect. And we are not talking about Poly or Contemporary guests "pool hopping" . We are talking about Non-paying, Non-Guest, visitors using the pools. Big difference. Just because you drive in on the weekends and buy an ice cream at the settlement, it doesn't mean that gives you the right to leave your 4 kids at the pool all day.

As far as safety concerns - like people driving through who are not staying at the fort - this is wrong. And though I would like to believe only a few slip by, it needs to be addressed. Though I understand where you are coming from, unfortunately, cancelling trips and passes will only call for MORE cut backs - and even less security. Boycotting is not really effective is situations like this - speaking with managers, writing letters, discussions like this do a lot more.

If you only knew the conversations that I have had with Mr. Martin and his managers. I was basically told that they know that there is a huge security problem, but they are happy with their current security the way it is. The last conversation was in August. I understand that they have made some recent changes concerning the Golf carts. That is a positive sign.

But in my opinion, much more is needed before I will spend $100 a night there again. My circumstance is far less a "boycott" than it is a refusal to spend a ton of money for an experience that I don't think is worth it anymore.

 

[keylime359]

When Golden Oaks is up and running, we can just tell the inter-poolers to go there.

 

[Magicbus]

If you only knew the conversations that I have had with Mr. Martin and his managers. I was basically told that they know that there is a huge security problem, but they are happy with their current security the way it is.

Do resort security CMs report to resort management or is it a separate property wide department, like the buses, that has it own managers?

I understand that they have made some recent changes concerning the Golf carts. That is a positive sign.

Is it a security CM or is it a FW CM that is monitoring the golf cart situation?

 

[starbuc71]

Everyone has to know that nothing will ever be perfect. I think a lot of this has started due to the new gate situation. I am all for fiends visiting other fiends at the fort if one party is visiting the other, but I think Disney should require you (the group staying at the fort) call the front desk and provide the name and possibly the vehicle and your site number of who will be visiting. I do that everytime just so our friends don't get hasseled by the guard. I guess we don't have to worry about that but I will continue to do that. We also tell our friends to park in the overflow and I pick them up at the bus stop with our golf cart. I think the less vehicles driving around the loops, the better the fort is. The holidays get me mad becuase since the gate issues, a lot of poeple looped with thier cars to see the decorations. You have to say that people that looped with thier cars, were not guest of the fort. Again, nothing is perfect but when I have a 5 yo daughter who loves to ride her bike to the end of our site, you have to get nervous with all the car traffic. Golf carts and people checking in are one thing, but when people loop to look at decorations in thier cars, they most likley are not looking at kids. I'm not rying to "p" anyone off, but they need to get more strict as someone said to patrol the hallways of our resort, limit the non-guest at our pool and crack down on non-guest looping to prevent theft (not-that anyone that loops that is a disboarder is a theif. Try looping the hallways of bay lake tower and see what happens