Scooter, bus, line......I gotta get to the park!!

[si-am]

si-am

You have raised an interesting point. Rather than complaining about it, do you have any workable suggestions on how this can be handled?

Unfortunately I do not, then again "bus occupancy engineering" is not my specialty in life.

The only obvious solutions would be to limit extra guests to a certain number (immediate family only? But hard to define).

Or dedicated buses, which I'm not sure is even legal.

Definitely a difficult problem to resolve. I still maintain that if the extra large groups were controlled, the animosity towards scooters on buses would dissipate. I just don't know how to make it work.

 

[Lollipop's Mom]

I think what would be fair is to allow the scooter and up to 3 additional people on the bus first. If they have 10 people in their party, those other people wait in line, catch a bus and the scooter and 3 people wait at the other end for those people.
I saw a scooter and about 12 family get on a bus ahead of all of us waiting.
I understand there is only so much room for the scooters and they need to get them loaded and over to the parks, that is fine - but send only a couple of people and make the rest wait, then they can meet at the other end.

 

[Robo]

The question, for me, is why do they get priority with no wait?

Under many (most) conditions, an arriving bus will have fewer (if any) other guests on-board.

The chair can be loaded much easier on an empty (or emptier) bus.

If the arriving bus is already very full, the person in the chair must wait for an emptier bus to arrive.

 

[clb22]

I personally do not mind waiting for the scooters to load - IF THEY WAITED IN LINE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
I do not believe that scooters (and their entire party) should get to go to the front of the line ever!!
I stood in line one night at the Magic Kingdom and waited for over an hour trying to get on a bus to go back to my resort. There were only 2 in my party - me and my young daughter. We were only about a 1/4 of the way from the front of the line. But every time a new bus would pull up - a scooter and their entire party would get to load first and this kept happening over and over again - until I complained to the bus driver and he called his supervisor and then they brought 2 buses at a time to our line. One of the buses parked next to the curb and loaded the scooters and then the other bus loaded the people without scooters. Then and only then - were we able to get back to our resort.
A FAIR and JUST system for bus loading would be for someone (just one person) who is part of the scooter party to stand in line and when their turn came up, then and only then, would the scooter and it's party load onto the bus. This way everyone has a place in the line and you load accordingly to your place in line.
I have emailed Disney a number of times with suggestions and frustrations due to having to wait and wait while others loaded before the line because of being in a scooter.
I have started renting a car to get to the parks from our Disney resort - due to the frustration over the scooters getting priority in loading.

 

[Strangeite]

Due to the logistical requirements of ECVs needing to be loaded onto buses first, would it be reasonable to limit the number of people jumping to the front of the line with the person using the ECV to one?

This is the policy adopted by the Canadian Supreme Court for airlines operating within Candadian airspace. If you have a disability and need the assistance of caretaker, you are entitled to bring one person along with you.

While it is not as convenient as having the entire family travel together, it does seem to me to be the "right" policy to adopt.

If my family wants to attend a University of Kentucky basketball game with my great-grandfather who uses a wheelchair, then my entire family is not permitted to sit in the handicapped accesible area of Rupp Arena with him. Rupp Arena actually only permits the person using the wheelchair to sit in the area, but if there is space available, they will permit one additional guest. Even if space is available, they will not permit more than one additional person into the designated area.

Just my two cents.

 

[runswithscissors]

Just my $0.02: When I'm at WDW, I'm on vacation...I'm not worried about whether or not I am displaced from the next bus because someone in a scooter/wheelchair and his/her family gets priority (and rightly so.) And, if its really that big of an issue, just rent a car. No worries-it's Disney World!

 

[eeyorethegreat]

I can understand the frustration of people who have to wait due to a scooter being loaded onto a bus. I've had to wait. It isn't fun to wait. Sometimes it's hot, sometimes the kids are cranky and tired. Sometimes I am tired and cranky. But I look at it this way, at least I have the priveledge of going to WDW at all in the first place I have more magnificent memories that by far outwiegh any time that I have waited in line or for a bus, in fact, when I think of our trips waiting for the bus is the last thing that I think of.

That all being said I have been twice to WDW with my Mom who requires a scooter to "endure" the parks. She can walk but her knees are such that she would never make an hour in the parks at the "park pace" with out one. renting the scooter (which I had to beg her profusely to do) is the only way she can be comfortable navigating the parks and enjoy herself. I am sure that there are some people that abuse the use of scooters but I have to say I don't think the cost of them for an entire trip is worth any "priorities' that are given. Except for the few who might rent one for a day thinking it is cool to drive around on a scooter, folks who use ecv (or wheel chairs) use them because they have to not becuase they want to or because they want the added expense of one. I also can say that we are not given priority to hop on the bus. We have waited to get on a but while parties without scoters have been loaded a head of us. The longest wait was two hours as bus after bus would not load the scooter in favor of the able bodied people. This is after being the very first family at the bus stop to get to AK that AM. Another night we waited in for an hour after MK closing until we were able to get on a bus. There have been many other waits not as significant as those two mentioned. Were we given priority- yes sometimes but definitely not all the time I would estimate 50% of the time we were given priority. On those times our party stood, not taking a seat (excepting my Mom) allowing for those folks who were not with a person who required a scooter to sit. I have heard many complaints about people using scooters but not once were we acknowledged (not that we were looking to be I just found it interesting) for standing to allow for those waiting to board to have a seat. We have also been told rather strongly by the bus drivers, on the times when we attempted to wait in line rather than board with Mom, that we were to get on the bus after she was loaded. As far as special seating at WDW shows ect.. , only one person was allowed to accompany my Mom in that area. We were however, permitted, if available to sit directly next to the handicapped seating area or directly behind said area just not in the area. This happened 100% of the time on our trip this summer and I wasn't bothered at all by it.

Is it frustrating to wait? Yup but hey there are so many other things in the world to get ruffled about.

 

[Matt'sMom]

At the risk of sounding somewhat "cold"; to be honest, I've never understood why scooters get priority.

It can be frustrating to wait bus after bus while scooters simply ride up and get access to the very next bus with no wait.

OK. Posting in order to be informative only...

ECVs & wheelchairs load first and exit last because they need room to navigate them into proper position in order to safely load, unload and allow the driver to secure the ECV appropriately for transport. It is difficult enough to back an ECV onto the narrow lift, then basically parallel park it in the designated area--doing so on an already loaded bus would be even more difficult (not to mention potentially unsafe).

Also, keep in mind that each bus with a working lift can only accomidate 2 ECVs/wheelchairs max. This means that if multiple handicapped persons (more than 2) are waiting for bus transportation, we wait longer... because we have no option but to wait for another bus (or two... or...). In the mean time, many if not all of the 'able bodied' guests can walk right onto the bus (even though it is unable to accomidate any further ECVs)--and once the regular seats have been filled, they also have the option of boarding a 'standing room only' bus if they so choose. The ECV users have no such choice--we sit and wait, sometimes for an hour or more, for a bus that can accomidate our needs.

As for family members boarding a bus with the ECV user...
How would all of you like to be told that you can not ride on the same bus as your son, daughter, wife, husband, etc.? Yet this is just what a lot of 'able bodied' guests are suggesting that we do--send our disabled family member off on one bus, to go wait at a drop off point somewhere for the rest of us to catch up with them later.

In all honesty, there is no 'advantage' to needing to use an ECV at WDW. For every one time when we actually may have gotten into an attraction slightly sooner, we waited longer than other guests who entered the line at the same time at nine or ten others (due to limits on the number of 'handicapped' guests permitted in an attraction at any given time, or due to having to wait for an accessible ride vehicle to make several rounds (there is often only one). And then there are the attractions we love... but which my family member could not experience, due to mobility issues that made it impossible to transfer safely. It was heart renching to have to tell him there just was no way for him to experience POC, for example.

 

[dlaushey]

If you want to use a scooter, fine. I totally get that there are hidden disabilities as well as obvious ones. I've even traveled with a family member using a scooter due to chemo, though we waited in the regular line while her immediate family boarded first with her.

For safety reasons, scooters need to board first. My only beef is with the extended family members getting front-of-the-line access, well ahead of everyone who has been waiting to board the bus.

Something needs to be done about THAT.

What would that be?

Why can't the family not in the scooter wait in the regular line and when it is their turn to load a bus then the scooter loads first? If there is not going to be room on the bus for those already in line and the extended family of the scooter rider then the entire scooter party waits for the next bus and loads first since they are now at the front of the line.

I have no problems with those who chose to use/must use a scooter – I don’t think that was the Ops issue. I think the issue is why do they and their party move to the front of the line? The family should wait in line and then see if there is room for all of those in front of them in line, their party and the scooter on the bus. If there is room for all, the scooter loads first and then the line loads with the scooter family in it. If there is not going to be room, the scooter waits, the scooter family moves up in the line as others board, let others pass if there is some room for more (but not enough for the scooter family). Then the scooter family becomes the next family to load when the next bus arrives.

I’m sure this begs the question, how do we know if there is going to be enough room? The scooter family will have to make their best judgment. If they think there is, have the scooter rider board, if they don’t, then the scooter doesn’t board, if it is questionable, either do or don’t and split up if necessary. I would do the same with my family, can we all 5 board, yes – then board, no – then don’t board, maybe – let’s see if we can, nope only 4 can, I’ll stay and wait for the next bus, meet you at our next destination.

 

[FIVEFANS]

I started this thread thinking there needs to be a better way for the scooters..... and now I am realizing that it all really comes down to the buses. After reading the posts it is evident that a scooter waiting 2 hrs is very unexceptable.........and really the only time ANY of this is an issue is when the buses are filled up anyway....... so it all lands in Disneys lap.

Please work on the bus mess. Please Please Please...... Not having to get in my car has always been part of the magic.......but ......

 

[danielle.st]

I didn't notice any real problems with them last week. I think there were some people with ruffled feathers one evening when a large group was coming with each of 2 different people in wheelchair/ECV. That was the only time I noticed any frustration. I think the OP is right that it often has more to do with the large group accompanying the wheelchair/evc than it does anything else. Personally, large groups slightly annoyed me all week in the park more than they did that one time with the bus (the large groups liked to walked side by side, making a wall of people and/or stop in the middle of something to confer and make plans).
There was a super nice evc user on one of the buses. I asked if it was ok if my dd stood right in front of her dd's legs to hold on to the back of the seat (she couldn't reach to bars at the top of the bus) and the woman made her child sit on her lap so mine could sit down. It was just nice because it was much more than I was asking for and I had been a little concerned my 5 year old wouldn't be able to keep her balance on the long bus ride between Pop and MK.

 

[LadyOmega]

Maybe the number of family members accompanying the scooter-bound guest could be limited to 2 or 3 at the most.

I agree. I have absolutely no problem with guests in scooters being loaded first, and with no wait. I agree with several others that the problem occurs when they bring along about 10-15 extra people, and every one of them gets priority. I think it would be ideal to have a limit of up to 4 people that are allowed to accompany a disabled person, to try to accomodate the size of an average family.

 

[mountdew1]

I think what kinda gets me is the people, CM's and guests alike, who have problems loading the scooters on the bus. Last trip I saw several people (probably about 1/3 of the scooters) unable to maneuver the scooter into place on the bus. In 1 instance the guy got it half way there, then got off the scooter, picked it up, and put in the proper place. I was kind of flabbergasted at that one. Also saw several people not know how to put their scooter in reverse and have to get helped off the scooter, and then have the bus driver park it. I understand that you may not normally use one, and rented it just for vacation, but take the 15 mins to drive it around your resort to learn how it operates before heading into crowds. For your safety as well as that of others around you. I also saw several CM's who didn't seem to know how to load scooters on their bus. Not sure if it was a different bus style than they were used to driving, but it definitely added to the wait.

For any of you scooter experts out there, is there a law against staying on your scooter while the bus is in motion? I heard a few drivers ask the scooter rider if they wanted to stay, but most declined. Seems like that would help to alleviate the seat issue (if only a bit). Instead of using 3 seats to park the scooter, plus another for the rider, can't they simply stay on their scooter thus freeing up the other seat? I'm asking this as a hypothetical as I truly have no idea. Please no flaming...

 

[Lollipop's Mom]

As for family members boarding a bus with the ECV user...
How would all of you like to be told that you can not ride on the same bus as your son, daughter, wife, husband, etc.? Yet this is just what a lot of 'able bodied' guests are suggesting that we do--send our disabled family member off on one bus, to go wait at a drop off point somewhere for the rest of us to catch up with them later.

If there are 10 people in a family, why should they ALL need to be together for a bus ride??
I suggested allowing 3 people per scooter.
Why CAN'T a scooter and 1 or 2 people wait on the other side? If we are waiting in line for 20 mins, why can't they wait on the other side for 20 minutes?
Its not like they are missing quality family time. Its a bus ride and that is it! Its not like I am asking for half their party to board the small world boat and the other 1/2 board 20 mins later.

Now if it is a family with 3 mom/dad and 3 young kids then they should all go, but if it is gramma in an ecv, mom, dad 4 kids....why not send gramma and mom with 2 kids, then they can wait for dad and 2 kids?

Why shouldn't they wait?

I completely agree that an ECV should go to the head of the line to be boarded because each bus can only handle 2, and it could end up very long waits if there are 8 ecv's in line. But I do not agree that the ECV and their entire extended family get to ride in front of people who have been waiting.

 

[Strangeite]

As for family members boarding a bus with the ECV user...
How would all of you like to be told that you can not ride on the same bus as your son, daughter, wife, husband, etc.? Yet this is just what a lot of 'able bodied' guests are suggesting that we do--send our disabled family member off on one bus, to go wait at a drop off point somewhere for the rest of us to catch up with them later.

Wait a minute. This happens all the time to "able bodied" people. Just last Christmas on our flight home, the airline asked for volunteers to be bumped from the flight. Nobody volunteered so the airline volunteered me. So, we had a choice. My wife and daughter could get on our regulared scheduled flight and I catch up with them later. OR they wait in an overcrowded airport, so that we can stay together.

I am not suggesting that people using an ECV be punished; but, I do not think that it is right that entire groups are able to board a bus without waiting just because one member is using an ECV, which does appear to happen according to previous posters.

 

[Parkers_girl]

I don't think it's about being first on the bus, or the fact of whether or not they have a disability. The fact of the matter is that if you are in a scooter and are the 30th person in line and here you come with your group of 10 people, it is not fair to allow you and all of your group onto the bus, while my family has been waiting longer than you. We want to get to our destination just as badly as you do.

I agree that it is easier to load them first, but I also believe that Disney should enforce a rule to enforce how many people can accompany a wheelchair on the bus, if it is a full bus.

 

[ScrapperBelle]

My sister is currently undergoing chemo and if we were to go to WDW anytime within the next year she would have to use an ECV. Of course, she is perfectly capable of walking short distances and if anyone looked at her they would think, "why is that perfectly healthy young woman in a scooter?" but there is no way she would last even an hour or so walking around the parks.

So, I don't judge people on whether or not I think they should be using a scooter. I will say there have been several times when 1 person on a scooter and the 15 or so people accompanying them have just about filled a bus requiring people who have been waiting in line to wait for another bus.

But, worse than that is to be pushed out of the way by people walking on their own 2 feet who appear at the last minute when you've been patiently waiting on the next bus.

The worst incident we ever saw was boarding the bus at the POLY. There was an entire family came walking up, young man in his 30's riding 2 children on a scooter. At the bus stop he gets off, walks around, has a smoke...when the bus pulls up "grandma" gets on the scooter to board the bus. Of course the entire family (of no less than 10 people) board along with her and since the bus had already loaded at the CR, it was full and everyone else had to wait for another bus. Of course when it came another scooter had pulled up, but this family was courteous enough to let the scooter board and the remaining members (2 people) got in line with everyone else. I just decided that the 1st family would have been obnoxious whether or not they were using a scooter just as the 2nd would have been just as polite.

On the other hand, I have seen people in scooters have to wait through a few buses because there were several scooters waiting and only space on board for 1.

Bottom line...I'd rather be irked for a little while than handicapped forever.

 

[msmouse]

Believe me, I have no answers for this issue, but it seems to me that Disney will soon be forced to take some action here because of the major increase in scooter use. I wonder if there should be some sort of "dedicated" busses for those requiring scooters and their families.

 

[estherhead]

I don't know if anyone has said this yet, but you could always rent a car if it really irrtates you. They aren't that much and with a GPS it isn't a big deal to find where you are going.

We did Magical Express and the bus system last September for my first time and I was not annoyed by scooters at all. I knew going in riding buses would make me put my commando ways on a shelf. The whole point was to slow down & put my destiny in someone else's hands. When we really had to get somewhere fast, we took a taxi. Which only happened once.

I think that it is wonderful to see people at Disney with their whole families, disabilities and all. My first Disney memories have my grandpa in a wheelchair in them (pre-ECV's.) We loved Disney World because it was the one place he could enjoy things without being embarassed or inconvenienced.

I know we loved parking in the wheelchair area & at the time got front of line at all attractions too. But we didn't abuse it. It was just the way it was.

And the wheelchair slowed us down too, naturally. So even with front of the line we accomplished less.

Anyhow, my vote is to rent a car ;-)

 

[BillSears]

As it has been said the problem is that wheelchairs/scooters need to be loaded first. So in almost all instances waiting in line means that they will not be loaded first and they will wait until the next bus instead of getting on the same bus as the people in front or even behind them in line.

Say a bus holds 40 people. 20 people are in line when I arrive at the bus stop. I wait in line with everyone else and 10 more people get in line behind me. It's time to board the bus, 20 people get on, I get sent to the side to wait for the next bus because wheelchairs/scooters need to board first and then the 10 people behind me get to board. Doesn't sound very fair to me. Of course the next bus could have a broken lift, or in cases where buses make multiple stops the next bus may already have both tie-down spots filled, or the next bus may have people who refuse to move from the tie-down spot seats etc...