School year is 'officially' open, again

[CdnCarrie]

No one is gloating. I am pointing out that it DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY IN AMERICA!!!

YOU are choosing this. YOUR country is choosing this.

Other countries are not like this.
It has nothing to do with being positive about the USA. It's about CHILDREN BEING GUNNED DOWN!
And if I say something about children being murdered I'm being negative? Really?

Minneapolis is only 7 hour drive from me. I have spent lots of time there. It's sad that this happened.
What did YOU do today to stop this? What is the plan?

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I'm going to suggest that's not true. MN and CA both have the strictest gun control in the nation. Both have had incidents. There is no correlation. Mental illness however - 100% of the shooters have suffered from mental illness. Every one of them. But sure, let's make this political and blame red states. That's what Gov. Newsom did today. Doing something to do something is not the same thing as making a difference.

There's a controversial topics board for you to discuss what Gavin Newsome did or didn't do.

The mere fact that he had decided he was "transgender" is in fact, a sign of mental illness.

Most of the cause of mental problems among the transgendered comes from the ill treatment they receive from bigots, who are often family members, and friends that reject them or worse, harass and abuse them. Whatever happened to love thy neighbor as thyself?

That correlation got pointed out very early in this discussion and was very quickly dismissed - why? There has definitely been a correlation in the recent past.

Correlation is not causality.

I could not tell you why that is,

Then why bring it up?

but the data does not lie

So when you want to claim Transgendered folks are Coo Coo for Cocoa Puffs, despite not having the chops to be making such judgements, the numbers don't lie. but when it comes to 8 of the top 10 states for homicide rates being
Louisiana
South Carolina
Arkansas
Tennessee
Alabama
Missouri
Alaska
and Georgia
in no particular order, Why that's just playing blame games.

. If that was all that has been uncovered in the last 24 hours then maybe you could call me nasty names for pointing it out - but no. This guy had all sorts of mental health issues, and ignoring it cost lives. We really need to stop politicizing and start addressing the mental health crisis in this country.

Nobody has called you anything. And once again who cut mental health programs is a topic for the other board.

 

[Lumpy1106]

It sounds like the shooter changed her name in 2020, so why now?

Does being transgender cause someone to buy a gun and murder people? How many trans people are out there that have not committed a violent act? Do you think they are mentally ill as well?

Just being transgender does not make someone mentally unstable. There are plenty of non trans people who are mentally unstable….

You have to understand how the trans movement is taking hold. You have depressed kids who see support by "coming out", but then it's incremental, seemingly benign steps. First it's a change in appearance - cut or grown out hair, then the pronouns, then a name change. There is a whole new vocabulary, and anyone that does not agree with the vocabulary or the pronouns, or has the gall to use their "dead name" is cut out of their life. Finally it's the hormones and surgery. Each step seems harmless, but taken as a whole it's really dark and very toxic. At the root of it all though is depression, is MENTAL ILLNESS. Seriously, read through what I just wrote - what of any of these steps would you consider normal, would you consider...healthy?

Are there people who get caught up in this and are not violent? Absolutely. But you can see how, once you are deep enough in, there is no going back, and if you are mentally unstable to begin with there is nothing about this that will not make the situation 100 times worse.

 

[mom2rtk]

but when it comes to 8 of the top 10 states for homicide rates being

Louisiana
South Carolina
Arkansas
Tennessee
Alabama
Missouri
Alaska
and Georgia
in no particular order, Why that's just playing blame games.

States have red and blue areas. The high crime in those states is coming from the big blue cities.

 

[rowan1813]

I am hesitating to write this because I don't want people to take it in a direction it isn't meant to, but as a teacher in a high school, I can almost guarantee the shooter's teachers over the years has had misgivings and have tried to say something but weren't taken seriously. A lot of times we can see little things that make us think twice and raise red flags and when we try to speak up, we are dismissed, for a variety of reasons, usually by those who have more power than we do and by parents who either don't want to hear that their precious angel isn't perfect or are terrified of bigger issues.

Obviously I do not know that this is in the case in this situation but I am seeing more and more info coming out that this person was likely very mentally ill but there was no formal diagnosis and people questioning why wasn't his issues addressed before this. By the time students get to us in high school (especially as upper classmen that I teach and interact with), their personality, moral compass, and thought process is pretty well fixed (not saying that people can't change but you can see where some of these kids are going to succeed, some are going to have major struggles in life, and some just plain creep you out because something is very wrong). We try to get the kids who raise these red flags with us as much help as possible but often times we hit major road blocks either from admin, parents, legal restrictions/litigation and it scares us because we see what the future could possibly be but no one will listen to us.

All this long rambling to say, I wish this event and others like it, had never happened. It terrifies me that we as a society have not found a way to keep students (and their teachers) safe from acts like this. I wish that there was more emphasis on helping people with mental health problems, and (a more controversial opinion, I know), I wish there was a way to require mental health treatment for those who need it. In the end, I just try to do the best I possibly can for my students and I hope they turn out to be good people who contribute to society positively.

 

[mom2rtk]

. but when it comes to 8 of the top 10 states for homicide rates being
Louisiana
South Carolina
Arkansas
Tennessee
Alabama
Missouri
Alaska
and Georgia
in no particular order, Why that's just playing blame games.

The crime in those states is isn't coming from the red areas. It's coming from the big blue cities.

 

[Uncle Coaster]

What did YOU do today to stop this? What is the plan?

For reference: I am a middle aged, middle class male US Citizen.

This hasn’t all been today, but in the past year I’ve mentored youth and children including discussing violence in hopes that they don’t lean to violence, I donate to a charity that mentors kids in areas that often have increased gun violence and provide them with positive role models, I pray, and I keep “how would they lower gun violence” as a priority when I vote.

If I had a bigger voice, I’d use it. I don’t think my voice in this thread will help much (with all due respect to the influence of the Dis) but I thought I’d share my plan.

Perhaps others, including our friends from more successful countries, can share what they do?

 

[CdnCarrie]

For reference: I am a middle aged, middle class male US Citizen.

This hasn’t all been today, but in the past year I’ve mentored youth and children including discussing violence in hopes that they don’t lean to violence, I donate to a charity that mentors kids in areas that often have increased gun violence and provide them with positive role models, I pray, and I keep “how would they lower gun violence” as a priority when I vote.

If I had a bigger voice, I’d use it. I don’t think my voice in this thread will help much (with all due respect to the influence of the Dis) but I thought I’d share my plan.

Perhaps others, including our friends from more successful countries, can share what they do?

Well for one we accept trans people with pride. That might help those who are struggling like the latest shooter.

 

[LilyWDW]

True. She’s being smart to protect herself.
But to me, refusing to cooperate with police and hiring a criminal defense lawyer may also suggest some sort of culpability. I guess we’ll see.

I disagree. Not cooperating without a lawyer is the smart thing to do no matter what.

 

[HopperFan]

I am hesitating to write this because I don't want people to take it in a direction it isn't meant to, but as a teacher in a high school, I can almost guarantee the shooter's teachers over the years has had misgivings and have tried to say something but weren't taken seriously. A lot of times we can see little things that make us think twice and raise red flags and when we try to speak up, we are dismissed, for a variety of reasons, usually by those who have more power than we do and by parents who either don't want to hear that their precious angel isn't perfect or are terrified of bigger issues.

Obviously I do not know that this is in the case in this situation but I am seeing more and more info coming out that this person was likely very mentally ill but there was no formal diagnosis and people questioning why wasn't his issues addressed before this. By the time students get to us in high school (especially as upper classmen that I teach and interact with), their personality, moral compass, and thought process is pretty well fixed (not saying that people can't change but you can see where some of these kids are going to succeed, some are going to have major struggles in life, and some just plain creep you out because something is very wrong). We try to get the kids who raise these red flags with us as much help as possible but often times we hit major road blocks either from admin, parents, legal restrictions/litigation and it scares us because we see what the future could possibly be but no one will listen to us.

All this long rambling to say, I wish this event and others like it, had never happened. It terrifies me that we as a society have not found a way to keep students (and their teachers) safe from acts like this. I wish that there was more emphasis on helping people with mental health problems, and (a more controversial opinion, I know), I wish there was a way to require mental health treatment for those who need it. In the end, I just try to do the best I possibly can for my students and I hope they turn out to be good people who contribute to society positively.

DS is a High School Teacher and Coach and you are 1000% correct. Luckily kids love him, and I think he's able to create a relationship enough that he has helped guide a few through some tough times. Even harder when kids tell him stuff because he is a mandated reporter. It isn't easy when you don't have support.

As a parent, I fear my kid going to school every day.

 

[jennab]

No one is gloating. I am pointing out that it DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY IN AMERICA!!!

YOU are choosing this. YOUR country is choosing this.

Other countries are not like this.
It has nothing to do with being positive about the USA. It's about CHILDREN BEING GUNNED DOWN!
And if I say something about children being murdered I'm being negative? Really?

Minneapolis is only 7 hour drive from me. I have spent lots of time there. It's sad that this happened.
What did YOU do today to stop this? What is the plan?

I live in MN and wish it wasn’t this way…

 

[Lumpy1106]

There's a controversial topics board for you to discuss what Gavin Newsome did or didn't do.

You conveniently cut off the part of my post where I said I would not copy the quote for that reason. Care to explain why?

Most of the cause of mental problems among the transgendered comes from the ill treatment they receive from bigots, who are often family members, and friends that reject them or worse, harass and abuse them. Whatever happened to love thy neighbor as thyself?

Nope, you have it backwards. Kids and young adults are "coming out" as trans and then cutting off the friends and loved ones who will not go along with it. These same family members do go along with it until something just doesn't seem right, then they raise the red flag and are promptly cut off. There is no rejection, harassment or abuse. And yes, I have experienced it first hand. Have you?

Correlation is not causality.

Correlation is important when you are trying to come to grips with why so many recent mass shooters fit the same profile. Didn't say it was causality.

So when you want to claim Transgendered folks are Coo Coo for Cocoa Puffs, despite not having the chops to be making such judgements, the numbers don't lie. but when it comes to 8 of the top 10 states for homicide rates being
Louisiana
South Carolina
Arkansas
Tennessee
Alabama
Missouri
Alaska
and Georgia
in no particular order, Why that's just playing blame games.

It's not a claim, it's the reality. Transgenderism is a mental illness. The cherry-picked data you reference is due to crime rates in big cities, run by people who are soft on crime. The two you left off? Same.

Nobody has called you anything. And once again who cut mental health programs is a topic for the other board.

In your words, why bring it up? I was heading off the name calling. Any time anyone speaks out about the harms of the transgender movement, name calling usually quickly follows. I highly recommend listening to the podcast, "The Witch Hunt of J.K. Rawling" if you haven't already.

 

[jennab]

Correlation is important when you are trying to come to grips with why so many recent mass shooters fit the same profile. Didn't say it was causality.

Which other recent ones?

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

often times we hit major road blocks either from admin, parents, legal restrictions/litigation

This can for sure be the case, one of the reasons there's increased scrutiny over what schools have done meaning at the admin level.

On a psychological level, while some things have changed since I was in college as far as how it is viewed, there is a lot that is handled differently when working with minors not merely a legal standpoint but a brain development standpoint which is why some diagnosis is done with what we see as too late (in reality it is if talking about actual acts). We have certainly come a long way in just the very recent years but when speaking about the most severe or disturbing potential diagnosis there's a harder point to do calls of action when they are school-aged.

For example actual psychopathic diagnosis (purely an example here) is not used as a diagnosis for an individual under the age of 18, they may instead be diagnosed with a conduct disorder . The idea that the brain is still under development, etc. But even that potential diagnosis comes with a lot of fluidity in whether they stay with one or not.

From a school admin level the main districts around my direct area use type of threat and age of the individual for when the police must legally be called but it does require the school to have been made aware of the threat (which is where students, parents, and the community come in to play).

Some things to consider and this is just a random out there comment is because some things can have a genetic component resistance by parents can be part of that. It's not to say the parents you've encountered personally have this but that for some it can affect how they view their child; I'm more inclined to say there's this "oh no not my child" going on but still.

One of my school friends had a slew of mental illness (severe) in her family. Her grandparents, mother, aunt, father and her and her sibling all had mental illness. At age 19 at the end of our freshman year of college she was diagnosed as schizoaffective disorder, there were no outward signs of anything prior to that end of the freshman year at least all of us friends who had known her since middle school. Now that is something that is often an onset rather than a gradual build up but still how she was in school and all the way up until the very end of freshman year of college was not at all the same person as what occurred to her. The only symptom we actually blatantly saw was slurred frantic speech but at the time she mostly played it off by the fact that she was learning mandarin Chinese. Sadly for her she lasted 1 week into our second year of college and had to drop out especially when her medication was still needing to be tweaked (she was on lithium amongst other things). But at least her family was forewarned by knowing it was of a high genetic chance so it wasn't a case of "no not my child".

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Luckily kids love him, and I think he's able to create a relationship enough that he has helped guide a few through some tough times. Even harder when kids tell him stuff because he is a mandated reporter. It isn't easy when you don't have support.

One of my favorite high school teachers, someone who I found was such a great source of support and guidance to the students, was overall loved by many and many recalled him long after graduation as someone who meant something to their life was fired because a parent didn't like what he had to say about a double standard in what films could be available to rent (he mentioned Blockbuster as a throwback example). All of the students and many parents were very upset that he was let go because he was one of the very few teachers who really seemed to care about students. He was a teacher that I felt I could confide in regarding my home life and many other students trusted him. That is an underappreciated thing to have at a school.

 

[VandVsmama]

No one is gloating. I am pointing out that it DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THAT WAY IN AMERICA!!!

YOU are choosing this. YOUR country is choosing this.

Other countries are not like this.
It has nothing to do with being positive about the USA. It's about CHILDREN BEING GUNNED DOWN!
And if I say something about children being murdered I'm being negative? Really?

Minneapolis is only 7 hour drive from me. I have spent lots of time there. It's sad that this happened.
What did YOU do today to stop this? What is the plan?

What did I do today about this?

I did what I can. I talked to my kids about it.

Why didn't I do anything else other than that? Because I have obligations. A job to go to. Household stuff to deal with. I can't put my entire life on hold to participate in another cause right now because I'm dealing with a lot of my own (insert 4-letter word for poop here) and I only have so many proverbial spoons to go around.

That being said, I am a gun owner. I do not think that more restrictive gun laws are the solution. Mental/behavioral health is the problem.

I do not think that mandatory psych evaluations before one can purchase a gun are the solution either. Besides, it would never get past the Supreme Court, in my non-lawyer opinion.

I have 2 kids. 1 is a sophomore in college, the other is a senior in high school. Both have a couple of close friends who consider themselves non-binary...individuals who were born with 1 genetic make up and identify now as the opposite gender (or no gender at all)...individuals who go by a different name (but haven't legally changed their name), use different pronouns, and no longer dress as the male or female they were born as.

We talked really openly about a few topics sort of on the fringe of this issue...the shooting, I mean. Stuff like:

• maybe the individuals who do this start to self isolate, spend a LOT more time online, seek out fringe message boards, chat forums, other areas online
• what makes ONE person do something so heinous & horrible like this when thousands of other people do not?
• the criminals who decide to commit mass shootings tend to be biological males. And yes, sometimes a biological female does it, but the vast majority of the time, it's someone with XY chromosomes.
• doesn't mean that all XY people are mass shooters. Nor does it mean that all trans people are mass shooters.
• this person, like several other mass shooters over the years, likely had some sort of long-standing, long brewing mental disorder.
• So why didn't the "system" catch it? Well, if the person does a pretty good job of keeping things just enough under the radar for others to suspect that something really disturbing is brewing, then the healthcare system in the criminal's area isn't going to even KNOW...and then since they don't know that this person is really ill, then nobody will notify police.
• the healthcare system in the US for severe mental illness has been broken for a long time.
• lots of people with mental illness in the US don't shoot people, especially people in a school.
• our family also knows of someone who, for a few years, identified as female (XY individual), took hormones, looked into doing surgery, and changed their mind...later decided that they no longer wanted to identify as female, switched back to male. That person doesn't have a violent bone in their body. That person struggled a lot going through all that they did. But it never would have occurred to them to actually murder children praying in church just because they (the trans person) were upset that they didn't want to be trans anymore....THAT person made the switch back ALL ON THEIR OWN WITHOUT ANY VIOLENCE AT ALL!

Am I going to organize some sort of protest somewhere about this? No.
Are my kids going to? No.
Am I going to lobby my congressional representatives to "do something"? No.
What are my kids & I going to do? Continue to treat others with respect regardless of their gender identity.

What else are my kids & I going to do? Trust our gut instincts about people. So when that little voice in your head tells you, "I don't know about that person. I think I need to steer clear of them," you listen to that voice even if everybody else is telling you not to. Your gut just might save your life some day.

Go look at all of the information that's come out from people who encountered that Idaho murderer over the years. EVERYBODY thought there was something off, weird, creepy about him. NOBODY could quite put their finger on it.

Eliminating private gun ownership will never happen in the US because of the 2nd amendment. It's something that many individuals from other countries don't quite understand. Besides, go look at all of the knife crimes in places like the UK & elsewhere. People getting stabbed in the face on public transportation in Germany.

The person who killed those children in Minneapolis was a very ill, sick & twisted person. A dangerous individual with a horrendous amount of evil intent within them. I feel for the shooter's parents.