School Vouchers: Pros and Cons

[ead79]

I was recently discussing the idea of school vouchers with my husband, and I can see both sides of the issue. I’d like to hear some more points of view to help me decide where I stand. Here are the things I initially thought of:

Pros:
--I like the idea of giving people the opportunity to send their kids to private schools that might not be able to afford it otherwise. I think this could potentially help middle class people be able to give their kids better educations.
--I think it’s important that parents have options if their local public school is very poor. On a related note, this is something I like about the No Child Left Behind Act since you can get your kids out of very poor schools. It just seems unfair to a student to be stuck in a bad school all because of where their parents live.

Cons:
--The voucher program could lead to more and more families sending their kids to private schools. This could crowd those private schools and also make it more difficult for them to maintain academic excellence if there is a sudden influx of kids who aren’t prepared for the difficulty level of the work at the private school.
--It could lead to a further decline in public school quality if people pull their kids out and funding is pulled out as well.
--I would hate to see it if private schools accepting students with vouchers were then forced to not fail the new students. I can see cries of “my child hasn’t had enough time to catch up” etc. causing private schools to have to let kids with failing grades stay in the school.

What are your thoughts?

 

[cardaway]

There are nothing but "cons" IMO unless there are major changes that precede setting up vouchers. I strongly disagree with having any of my tax money going into a system where I'm paying for private school for others AND still paying into what would be a doomed public school system.

I also don't lke the idea of more tax money going to churches and many private schools are nothing but extensions of the church.

 

[JoyG]

I could really use some vouchers right now as I send my twins off to private school for the first time this year.

But in reality, I think the voucher system would decimate the city schools that employ me. We are already hurtin' with the number of charter schools in our district that take money from our schools (I want to say 3k per student). They pull that out of the school system (which leaves us with less teachers, aides and larger classes) but then charter schools have the option to not take certain students, or if a student is disruptive he can be asked to leave...and go back to the public schools.

I don't think vouchers will work unless the private schools the students use them at are held to the same requirements that public schools are...meaning you have to educate this child no matter what, you can't keep the cream of the crop and leave the rest for the public schools.

That's just one of the reasons vouchers won't work, I'm sure there are more.

 

[chobie]

Cons : Private schools are not subject to the laws of public schools; can "pick and choose" who their students are. Will not have to take in kids who have disabilities. The money will be snatched up first by the people who already have their kids in private schools. Kids who would most benefit do not necessarily have private schools in commuting distance. Many poor parents will still not be able to put their kids in private schools because they will have to make up costs for tuition, uniforms, books --vouchers do not cover the whole costs.

 

[ItGirl753]

I could really use some vouchers right now as I send my twins off to private school for the first time this year.

But in reality, I think the voucher system would decimate the city schools that employ me. We are already hurtin' with the number of charter schools in our district that take money from our schools (I want to say 3k per student). They pull that out of the school system (which leaves us with less teachers, aides and larger classes) but then charter schools have the option to not take certain students, or if a student is disruptive he can be asked to leave...and go back to the public schools.

I don't think vouchers will work unless the private schools the students use them at are held to the same requirements that public schools are...meaning you have to educate this child no matter what, you can't keep the cream of the crop and leave the rest for the public schools.

That's just one of the reasons vouchers won't work, I'm sure there are more.

Ditto to what Joy said! I also teach in Buffalo. I'm glad I didn't have to go into my rant again!!! We have over 10+ charter schools that I can name from memory, and new ones opening all the time! Where is this "limit"? It IS decimating the public schools. I got a new student in January of this year. He had already been asked to leave 3 charter schools, and this was first grade. Between the private schools and the charter schools, our upper and middle class students are leaving us as well as our top performers too. My classes just keep getting lower and lower academically and higher and higher in behavior problems! But then I have to consider, if I am still living here when I have kids, where will I send my kids to school?

Hi Elisabeth!

 

[ead79]

Thanks for your thoughts. I just wonder what can really be done to improve public schools. I was fortunate enough to attend one of the best public schools in the country, but it's one of VERY few decent ones in the area. Housing costs in that district are outrageous, so my parents had to buy a serious fixer-upper to get into the district, and that's not an option for everyone of course.

 

[brerrabbit]

The arguements I have heard from a lot of people that are for school vouchers is one that makes sense. It would challenge the public school system to take a serious look at their cost structure and what they are spending money on. Here in Texas over 50% of the money spent on education never makes it to the classroom. Its spent at the administrative level. Now I am not talking about the bond money used for new facilities, I'm talking about the O and M budget. We have overblown administrators who collect huge paychecks to run the system. If vouchers were instituted it would force the public school system to become more cost consious and more efficient. Here in Texas our property taxes go to school funding and with the real estate boom we have had in the past 7 to 8 years the amount of money collected for schools has increased by an average of 9% a year. I don't know about you but the company I work for has not increased the operating budgets by 9% a year for 9 years. At the same time the average cost of attending private school in Texas has only grown about 1 to 1 1/2% a year over the same period. Why can the private schools do it so much better for so much less money? I know part of it is with every Federal or State dollar comes a set of rules about how to spend it and where you can and cannot spend it but isn't that the problem? State and Federal politicians telling educators how to spend money to educate the children. What a joke.

Make public schools responsible for not only educating kids but also for controlling costs and then give them some latitude and see what happens. Thats why I tend to favor the voucher program. It would put some responsibility on people to be more effcient.

 

[WDWfan36]

Ditto to what Joy said! I also teach in Buffalo. I'm glad I didn't have to go into my rant again!!! We have over 10+ charter schools that I can name from memory, and new ones opening all the time! Where is this "limit"? It IS decimating the public schools. I got a new student in January of this year. He had already been asked to leave 3 charter schools, and this was first grade. Between the private schools and the charter schools, our upper and middle class students are leaving us as well as our top performers too. My classes just keep getting lower and lower academically and higher and higher in behavior problems! But then I have to consider, if I am still living here when I have kids, where will I send my kids to school?

Hi Elisabeth!

Somewhat along the lines of what i was thinking

 

[JimB.]

Pro: Gives some kids the opportunity to escape a crappy public school & have a shot at a decent education (BTW, this is the ONLY type of school voucher I support. Vouchers just to subsidize a kid's private education when they othewise have access to a functional public school is a BIG no-no in Jim's book). Also, there needs to be requirements of private schools to take ANYONE w/a voucher (school size notwithstanding), not just pick & choose the "A" kids.

Con: Gives a public school system an "out", rather than dealing with the difficult task of fixing a "broken" school.

Another Con: Starts to "blur" the Church/State separation line thing.

 

[chobie]

The arguements I have heard from a lot of people that are for school vouchers is one that makes sense. It would challenge the public school system to take a serious look at their cost structure and what they are spending money on. Here in Texas over 50% of the money spent on education never makes it to the classroom. Its spent at the administrative level. Now I am not talking about the bond money used for new facilities, I'm talking about the O and M budget. We have overblown administrators who collect huge paychecks to run the system. If vouchers were instituted it would force the public school system to become more cost consious and more efficient. Here in Texas our property taxes go to school funding and with the real estate boom we have had in the past 7 to 8 years the amount of money collected for schools has increased by an average of 9% a year. I don't know about you but the company I work for has not increased the operating budgets by 9% a year for 9 years. At the same time the average cost of attending private school in Texas has only grown about 1 to 1 1/2% a year over the same period. Why can the private schools do it so much better for so much less money? I know part of it is with every Federal or State dollar comes a set of rules about how to spend it and where you can and cannot spend it but isn't that the problem? State and Federal politicians telling educators how to spend money to educate the children. What a joke.

Make public schools responsible for not only educating kids but also for controlling costs and then give them some latitude and see what happens. Thats why I tend to favor the voucher program. It would put some responsibility on people to be more effcient.

What about special ed? Are you figuring those costs in? Remember that private schools don't have to educate every child depsite his/her disabilites.

 

[DizGeek]

I'm a working class guy and I work my tail off to send my kids to private schools...it would bum me out if someone sent their kids to our school for free. Not to mention the fact that my taxes pay for our local schools. Go ahead...blast me...even though I dont deserve it.

 

[DizGeek]

I strongly disagree with having any of my tax money going into a system where I'm paying for private school for others AND still paying into what would be a doomed public school system.

I feel somewhat the same. I pay out of pocket for my kids private school AND I pay taxes so my neighbors kids can go to school.....and their school is WAY much better than mine (physically)

 

[Toby'sFriend]

Originally Posted by cardaway
I strongly disagree with having any of my tax money going into a system where I'm paying for private school for others AND still paying into what would be a doomed public school system.

I can understand your point and also the arguments about seperation of Church and State. But I can tell you that as a Property Owner/Parent, it is extremely frustrating to be paying thousands of dollars every year into a school system that you feel you can't send your kids too. Then you get to pretty much turn around and double that amount by paying Private School tuition.

The obvious solution is to FIX the way Public Schools are run. There is nothing in the world I'd like better than to have a neighborhood school that I felt I could send my kids to without fear of them being mugged.

Flame suit on, but our schools get more than enough money to provide a "good" education. Maybe not the "best education in the world" but certainly good enough that we shouldn't be showing results such as "38% of our 5th Graders meet State Math Standards" and then applauding that as a HUGE GAIN. It's pitiful. The local Supertindent of Public schools here makes over $200k a year for those kinds of results. They gave her a raise, if she were a CEO of a company, she would be fired.

3 years ago when I made the decision to bail, I sat in a Community meeting where the School made some ridiculous claim that they "lose money on every student who walks in the door - it costs so much to educate them" and that is why our District has been running shortfalls every year. Of course, later on that year a State Auditor came in and "found" a couple of million sitting in a bank account that apparently the School Business office had forgotten was there, so then all the sudden (after they had laid off 10% of the teaching staff and cut PE, Music, and Art AND shortened the school day by one full hour) they were in the black again.

Well if that is truly the case, why isn't it more economically feasible to just give me a couple thousand and let me take my kids somewhere else?

 

[cardaway]

I can understand your point and also the arguments about seperation of Church and State. But I can tell you that as a Property Owner/Parent, it is extremely frustrating to be paying thousands of dollars every year into a school system that you feel you can't send your kids too. Then you get to pretty much turn around and double that amount by paying Private School tuition.

I'm sorry that is the case, but as long as this is a national issue, I'll be doing everything I can to make sure vouchers go down unless there are changes made.

Well if that is truly the case, why isn't it more economically feasible to just give me a couple thousand and let me take my kids somewhere else?

Personally I would love it if everybody got to take what they pay into the schools and make their own use if it. I'm all for privatizing the entire school system. I just don't want to have to deal with paying into the private religious schools I'll never use AND what's left over.

 

[cardaway]

Gives some kids the opportunity to escape a crappy public school & have a shot at a decent education (BTW, this is the ONLY type of school voucher I support. Vouchers just to subsidize a kid's private education when they othewise have access to a functional public school is a BIG no-no in Jim's book).

So how is everybody going to agree on crappy vs. functional?

 

[barkley]

i am against vouchers because i see them as the 'system' that has already contributed to the decline of the public schools coming in and mandating rules and regulations that will cause my private school to decline.

the school my kids go to is in no way 'elite' and has taken in many children the public schools have 'washed their hands of' (behavioural problems, supposed learning disabilities-i say supposed because some have flourished in a smaller, more personalized educational environment and no longer demonstrate the issues that led to an ld diagnosis in their public school setting). i don't know what the adverage public school receives or pays out to educate a child-but ours manages to do it with a minimum of administrative cost such that for 2 children i pay only $5500 per year for everything (we do no fundraising, provide no supplies, the kids have the newest texts and software, go on multiple and some multi night field trips).

personaly, i would prefer if given the choice-some type of tax credit (akin to the child care tax credit available). it would defray my expenses abit-and it might offer someone who wants to move their child to a private school a minor financial means to do so. when you look at-people who pay property taxes and send their kids to public schools already benefit from a tax write-off, so while i'm getting a 'write off' for funding the education of other people's children-i am denied one for educating my own.

btw-we do have some kids attend our school 'for free'-if an extreem financial issue exists a parent can apply for a scholarship to cover most/all of attendance-it is funded in part by the church that runs the schools as well as a small portion of the tuition full paying parents put forth (and a recipient does not have to be a member of the church-it is based on financial need and weather the student is benefiting from their educational experience).

 

[cardaway]

i am against vouchers because i see them as the 'system' that has already contributed to the decline of the public schools coming in and mandating rules and regulations that will cause my private school to decline.

Thats' the other part I always wonder about. Do the people already in private schools want this to happen?

Once vouchers become a reality, private schools are not private anymore, and you can bet me and many others will be there making sure they play by the rules.

 

[CEDmom]

The arguements I have heard from a lot of people that are for school vouchers is one that makes sense. It would challenge the public school system to take a serious look at their cost structure and what they are spending money on. Here in Texas over 50% of the money spent on education never makes it to the classroom. Its spent at the administrative level. Now I am not talking about the bond money used for new facilities, I'm talking about the O and M budget. We have overblown administrators who collect huge paychecks to run the system.

Here in NJ we have 65 districts and only 26 counties. Some districts don't even have schools they send their kids to other districts. As huge a problem as that is we're also dealing with a state board of ed that forces districts to buy supplies from certain vendors at inflated prices. Surprise, surprise these are the same vendors that give lots of $$ to political parties.

That being said I think vouchers are a bad idea. I don't believe they'll have any affect on the quality of education in public schools. Schools are as good as the students that go there. Students are good because of support at home. A child that wants to learn and gets reinforcement at home can learn in a hut. Fancy schools with all the bells and whistles and the best teachers can't teach a child that doesn't want to learn.

 

[JimB.]

So how is everybody going to agree on crappy vs. functional?

In Florida, all schools are given a grade (A-F) annually. Not sure of the criteria, probably test perfomance + trends over the past few years.

For example, just as a theoretical, if a school is graded "F" over 3 years, consider it "crappy" & have some form of voucher system.

 

[chobie]

Here in NJ we have 65 districts and only 26 counties. Some districts don't even have schools they send their kids to other districts. As huge a problem as that is we're also dealing with a state board of ed that forces districts to buy supplies from certain vendors at inflated prices. Surprise, surprise these are the same vendors that give lots of $$ to political parties.

That being said I think vouchers are a bad idea. I don't believe they'll have any affect on the quality of education in public schools. Schools are as good as the students that go there. Students are good because of support at home. A child that wants to learn and gets reinforcement at home can learn in a hut. Fancy schools with all the bells and whistles and the best teachers can't teach a child that doesn't want to learn.

This is very true. Sadly many parents do not value education and do not care how their kids do; to them its just free babysitting.