School Issue Regarding Science Class/WWYD?--Update #51

[FayeW]

This teacher is a nut. I, too, would have a bigger issue with her declaration that their textbook contains "garbage" than if she just simply didn't teach those chapters. She could have presented it in a different way, i.e "We are going to start at chapter 4, and perhaps if we have time we will cover the first section later in the year". To tell the children that the first 3 chapters were garbage was way over the line.

 

[VirtuallyMe]

wow- that is sad that she feels that way and is in a teaching position like she is...

I attended Catholic school from Kindergarten to High school- and have had many great discussions about evolution vs creationism- I was the kid in Kindergarten challenging many of the bible stories based on scientific principle and was frequently (through the years) sent to speak to Nuns, priests, bishops etc- and all I spoke with seemed to agree that as a Catholic as long as I believe that God set it all in motion- what happened next can follow the scientific theories that currently existed.

As others have said- I would set up a meeting with the teacher just to clarify what your son has told you and see what she has to say to you. I would also offer her information about vinyl gloves at the same meeting... because unless the experiment was with a latex balloon switching to an alternate glove would be the appropriate thing to do anyway.

If she sticks to her Creationism as in the Bible stance- I would then go to the principal, the diocesian curriculum person, etc to get better answers of why they'd have someone teach off the approved curriculum- sooo far off.

In the mean time- reinforce the information- like others have said by having your son read the chapters and do work in the book and you quizing him on it in spare time.

As someone else said- I would definitely have gotten in trouble in this class- as a 7th grader there is no way I wouldn't have gone into open debate with a teacher teaching something "wrong" As a matter of fact I did have a few arguments- not about creationism but many other topics- and always tried to respectfully give appropriate information.

 

[Northstar]

Another question to ask, and be concerned about: How will your son's work be evaluated if he doesn't follow the teacher's line on the evolution question? I mean, she went out of her way to make it clear this is an important issue to her... I wouldn't be surprised if she tests students and marks them wrong if they don't spit back what she told them in class.

You've got two issues. A year with a science teacher who's maybe a shade below mediocre... given your situation, I'd bite the bullet on that one and do my best to keep her functioning at at least mediocre. A science teacher who wants to use the classroom to further her own political agenda, and uses her power to make sure kids fall into line.... noooo, for me that's a dealbreaker. Out of her class or out of that school.

 

[Disney Doll]

I may have been using the term "Creationism" incorrectly in my previous posts.

What I mean to say is that my son is taught that God kicked off everything and that evolution is just a further process of what God started. There was/is a Creator. Probably used Creationism wrong here as I'm not even sure what it really means.

Anyway, there are kids in his class who believe the bible stories literally (Adam and Eve) and do NOT believe in Evolution. These are 7th graders too, not 1st graders. I can only assume they get it at home because evolution has been taught in previous years. My DD was in this same school many years ago--never an issue. She is in Catholic High School now and their science courses are just like a public school's science course.

Well, what you describe is not "Creationism" per se...that is more like "The Big Bang" with God being the Big Bang. That's a little more palatable, because while there is no proof that God was The Big Bang, there's no proof that He wasn't.

I have less of an issue with a teacher saying that God was the Creator and everything evolved from there off of what He started.

However, the fact that she is ignoring the 1st 3 chapters of the textbook which deal with evolution stills sends a bad message. For argument's sake, let's say God was "The Big Bang" that started it. Species still evolved from what he started, and there is scientific fact/evidence to back that up, so I son;t know how you could ignore it, especially in a science class.

I read a very interesting article about this once, written by a priest. The basic "jist" of the article was that when we read the Bible and it says "in 7 days, God created Heaven and Earth" it can be interpreted as not necessarily seven 24 hour days. A "day" in "God's time" could literally be millions of years.

I have been a Catholic since birth, and this article was a lightbulb moment for me as far as reconciling Creation with evolution.

As far as other kids in his class and what they believe, I would assume they are learning it at home, especially if you have had good experiences overall with this school in the past. What the other kids are spouting isn't the usual Roman Catholic belief though. It sounds like there are some other influences there from religions that interpret the Bible more literally than RC's do. Maybe it has something to do with geographic location? Are you in the "Bible Belt"...my experience has been that there is a lot more "literal" Biblical interpretation there than there is, for example, here in the Northeast.

 

[Disney Doll]

Amen. I find it really hard to believe that there are no other educational options.

I have no problem believeing it. Our town has a great public education system. The city next door has a terrible public education system...most of my friends who live in that city make great sacrifices to send their children to private schools because of the lack of education, abundance of crime and drugs, and overall poor conditions in their city's public schools.

 

[Christine]

I read a very interesting article about this once, written by a priest. The basic "jist" of the article was that when we read the Bible and it says "in 7 days, God created Heaven and Earth" it can be interpreted as not necessarily seven 24 hour days. A "day" in "God's time" could literally be millions of years.

I have been a Catholic since birth, and this article was a lightbulb moment for me as far as reconciling Creation with evolution.

I believe that this is what the school has been teaching in the past. They aren't actually teaching the Big Bang theory either. Just that a divine being started life on this planet (in whatever form) and that it has evolved from that (hopefully with God's influence).

As far as other kids in his class and what they believe, I would assume they are learning it at home, especially if you have had good experiences overall with this school in the past. What the other kids are spouting isn't the usual Roman Catholic belief though. It sounds like there are some other influences there from religions that interpret the Bible more literally than RC's do. Maybe it has something to do with geographic location? Are you in the "Bible Belt"...my experience has been that there is a lot more "literal" Biblical interpretation there than there is, for example, here in the Northeast.

No, not in the Bible Belt, just Northern Virginia. It's only some of the kids that are believing this. One of them, at least, comes from one of the more strict Catholics they've got 9 kids at home and one on the way!!!

Today, I had to pick my DD (16) early from her Catholic high school and I told her all about what was going on in her brother's science class (her old school too). She was outraged! She said that they never acted like that when she was there and she was wondering why the kids didn't get up and argue with the teacher. I explaind that *most* 11-12 years old weren't quite into arguing with the teacher (apparently the high schoolers love doing it).

Anyway, the current Vice Principal of this school used to be one of her teachers and, despite his own DD being one of the evolution-bashers, she did feel that he was pretty open-minded and rational and she thinks that he would not like to hear this was going on. She also felt that maybe his own kids were "evolution-bashers" because they were all so young that they probably didn't figure out a way to explain it properly to them. She just couldn't believe that he would support this teacher.

So hopefully I will get some more info soon and then I guess I'll have to contact this teacher. I so hate confrontations, especially if I think a person may not be rational.

 

[momof2inPA]

I may have been using the term "Creationism" incorrectly in my previous posts.

What I mean to say is that my son is taught that God kicked off everything and that evolution is just a further process of what God started. There was/is a Creator. Probably used Creationism wrong here as I'm not even sure what it really means.

That isn't Creationism. Creationism says that everything that exists now never existed in a different form. For example, God didn't create apes or chimpanzees or whatever, and then they evolved into humans. Humans were always humans. Oh, and the world isn't billions of years old, it's thousands of years old.

What your son is being taught is what most Christians believe. Of course, God kicked off everything.

Now, if his science teacher is skipping major sections and not teaching in line with the Diocesan curriculum, but her own opinions, that would be wrong. If she understood that this would be ok going into this job, the person who hired her should be reported to the Diocese. My kids go to Catholic school, and they are closely monitored by the Diocese. What they say is law.

 

[maelstrom]

People like that shouldn't be science teachers. :\

 

[Wishing on a star]

You've got two issues. A year with a science teacher who's maybe a shade below mediocre... given your situation, I'd bite the bullet on that one and do my best to keep her functioning at at least mediocre. A science teacher who wants to use the classroom to further her own political agenda, and uses her power to make sure kids fall into line.... noooo, for me that's a dealbreaker. Out of her class or out of that school.

Christine, Northstar said it best... The issue is NOT that the teacher is choosing to omit certain chapters or gloss over certain issues. The issue is that the teacher is using her classroom to further her own religious/political agenda with 11 year olds!!!!

IMHO, I could care less whether a teacher omitted some controversial information. This would not be enough for me to jeopardize my son's enrollment at the one acceptable school that he has been attending. Remember, your son seems quite capable of writing it off. (If my child were upset, then WATCH OUT FOR MAMA BEAR!!!!)

If you go in there saying.. The diocese says that 'this' is the curriculum and the teacher is not teaching it exactly how 'I' think she should... Well, you may not get very far.

You need to focus on the IMPORTANT issue, which is that she declared certain information in the curriculum to be 'garbage'. Forget the whole creationism-vs-evolution debate. That ain't gonna be settled in the here and now!!!

She could have just simply skipped it... I doubt that it would have caused that many waves at all. But, apparantly she crossed the line, and is using her classroom to further her own personal beliefs. That is what the issue is.

I would investigate further to hear from others just 'exactly' what was said by the teacher in the classroom. (And, no, I would not go to her first to give her a chance to backtrack and use semantics to cover her behind - because that is what she is likely to do.)

If she actually used words like 'garbage', referrring to a part of the curriculum outlined by the diocese, then you might have a valid concern. (notice, in this last sentence, neither the words creationism or evolution were used)

 

[MrsPete]

I'm a Christian, and I do not believe in the theory of evolution. Nonetheless, it should be taught in school -- as a THEORY.

Why? Because it's irresponsible for a student to leave high school without knowing the basic concept of such a widely-held theory. Pretending that the student doesn't exist doesn't help anyone. It just means that the student will be ignorant on that particular subject (certainly NOT what anyone wants!).

Once the student understands what the theory is about, he or she can develop an opinion on it -- without having the facts, he or she is not entitled to an opinion! That's why we hear people saying things like, "I didn't descend from a monkey", which is NOT what the theory of evolution states.

 

[Christine]

After talking to two parents this weekend, I found out that my son had not exaggerated. Two parents confirmed what was said in the classroom. They were not going to pursue it though because they agreed with the teacher and didn't believe "that we came from monkeys."

So, I called the Vice Principal this morning to set up a meeting. However, he was ready to discuss on the phone. He was well aware of the problem (apparently other parents called last week). The teacher was brought in with the principal (a nun), the VP, and some others. A "presentation" was given regarding the Catholic church's stance on evolution and the teacher was told that she must teach the evolution material.

The VP then told me that a "handout" would probably be coming home with the kids regarding what happened. Not sure what that will be.

He then told me to call him if anything else like this comes up.

So, I feel better.

 

[Hedy]

Glad to hear it's been resolved.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Glad to hear it's been resolved.

Me too.

 

[BoyLovesBuzz]

After talking to two parents this weekend, I found out that my son had not exaggerated. Two parents confirmed what was said in the classroom. They were not going to pursue it though because they agreed with the teacher and didn't believe "that we came from monkeys."
So, I called the Vice Principal this morning to set up a meeting. However, he was ready to discuss on the phone. He was well aware of the problem (apparently other parents called last week). The teacher was brought in with the principal (a nun), the VP, and some others. A "presentation" was given regarding the Catholic church's stance on evolution and the teacher was told that she must teach the evolution material.

The VP then told me that a "handout" would probably be coming home with the kids regarding what happened. Not sure what that will be.

He then told me to call him if anything else like this comes up.

So, I feel better.

These parents should probably sit it on the class as well.

 

[daisax]

Glad to hear that it's being resolved directly by the school.

Your son can read the first three chapters on his own and discuss them with you. Just like a government school student learns about creation from other sources, you child is free to learn anything he wants outside her classroom.

Public school science classes do not teach religion (creationism). Catholic school science classes don't teach creationism either -- they teach evolution. Only this teacher doesn't want to. A parent certainly has the right (and obligation) to inform the powers that be when a parochial school teacher is openly flouting school AND Church authority.

I know our DD studied evolution/adaptation last year in 10th grade Biology. And I also know that her Religion teacher told us during Back to School night, "I don't teach evolution. I don't believe in it, and I won't endorse it.

The difference, of course, is the difference between being a SCIENCE teacher and a RELIGION teacher. Though as far as the Catholic Church is concerned, evolution is the means by which God has chosen to make his Creation. It's not up for individual opinion of teachers (or parents) within the Catholic school system as to whether it's fact or garbage -- it's the official teaching of the Catholic church. So in a way, it's even WORSE for the religion teacher to hold (and express) opinions directly contradictory to official teaching. (And since the current Pope is the guy who wrote the declaration for John Paul II back in the 80s, it's not going to change any time soon, if ever). Whatever one's opinions of the current Pope, he's an academic and firmly anti- biblical literalism.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Hey, thanks for the update!

Sounds like an excellent resolution.

(by the way, this is coming from somebody who does not put much stock in the 'theory' of evolution.)

 

[TinkerbellMama]

I would freak out and withdraw him from the school! Seriously, I would!
I would never trust a school that allowed that type of "science" to be taught, no matter how good the other teachers seemed to be. But my tolerance for this kind of thing is very, very low. Good luck!

 

[MrsPete]

After talking to two parents this weekend, I found out that my son had not exaggerated. Two parents confirmed what was said in the classroom. They were not going to pursue it though because they agreed with the teacher and didn't believe "that we came from monkeys."

This is exactly why evolution should be taught in schools -- these parents have no clue what the theory of evolution says!

 

[Christine]

This is exactly why evolution should be taught in schools -- these parents have no clue what the theory of evolution says!

Exactly. If you are going to criticize the facts presented in the theory of evolution, at least get them right!

 

[Freyja]

I'd go marching in and make a big deal about it. I'd take it as high (above this Vice Principal) as it needs to go. Science is science. Even the catholic church has no problem with evolution, so this twit shouldn't be taking it into her head to teach garbage. You are paying tuition to have your child taught--the least the school can do is make sure he's being taught accurately.

I agree.

In my kids school I have a problem which is the total opposite from yours. They have religion class, which is supposed to be about various different types of religion, although mainly Christianity, and the curriculum all talks about Christianity, the Bible, etc. as science but not a belief. Which is all it is to me.