School excuse wording

[nytimez]

Yeah, but just because your tuition is helping to pay a professor's salary doesn't mean the professor has to let you make up a midterm that you missed because you decided to take a vacation.

I said that as seriously as I said earlier in this thread that my kid's teacher should make me a sandwich and do my laundry since I pay her salary.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

Honestly, the way I look at it is, if you post something in a public forum on the internet expect people to comment on it. It may not always be the comments you want or asked for. Once it is out there, it will take on a life of its own. If you accept that before you post, then it is really not that huge of a deal.

If you are not willing to deal with any and all comments, then maybe you shouldn't post it.

I agree. Threads often go in tangents, but are still generally on topic. For the most part, I have found this thread fairly tame compared to some other threads.

At least there haven't been the normal flurry of the "my 4th grade gifted and talented child mastered quantum physics last year and assisted NASA with space station experiments while writing a Pulitzer prize winning book so he/she can easily miss weeks of school with no problem" type posts in this thread.

 

[Jerseyguy's Wife]

And now back to the regularly scheduled "you should/shouldn't" debate.

 

[chip 'n dale rule]

Just thought I would put in my two cents as I am a teacher and a mom. Have I pulled my kids out of school for Disney vacations?... Yup, for as much as a week when they were younger. Do I have parents in my class that pull their kids out of school to go to Disney? Yup, next week one of my second grade students will miss 3 days due to a trip to Disney. Do I think that it is a horrible thing and that their education will be irrevocably damaged? Absolutely not!!! Life is a balancing act and if that means that one of my own kids or one of my students misses a few days to go on what may be a once in a lifetime experience with his or her family, I say "HAVE FUN!" And also maybe "Take me with you!"

 

[CentralFloridian99]

Just say you cant make it to school those days. When I went to school, alot of people did that. Isnt it fun cheating school to get to Disney? If you need an escuse, say because of:

EPCOT
Hall of Presidents
Animal Kingdom

Theres too much to list, but these are examples! Have a great time ditching school

 

[Wadecool]

Yeah, but just because your tuition is helping to pay a professor's salary doesn't mean the professor has to let you make up a midterm that you missed because you decided to take a vacation.

I have had professors who had simillar philosophies. I actually had one professor who took us on a field trip to a local racetrack to learn how to handicap horses (I went to college in KY). The professors point was that they didn't care when or if you showed up for lectures, your efforts would be evident in your test scores and quality of assignments. Obviously, you would have to show up for exams. I knew people who literally showed up on the first day to pick up the syllabus and wouldn't show back up until test days and they got A's.

 

[Schmeck]

Just say you cant make it to school those days. When I went to school, alot of people did that. Isnt it fun cheating school to get to Disney? If you need an escuse, say because of:

EPCOT
Hall of Presidents
Animal Kingdom

Theres too much to list, but these are examples! Have a great time ditching school

I must ask - did you ditch school a lot?

 

[Wadecool]

Just say you cant make it to school those days. When I went to school, alot of people did that. Isnt it fun cheating school to get to Disney? If you need an escuse, say because of:

EPCOT
Hall of Presidents
Animal Kingdom

Theres too much to list, but these are examples! Have a great time ditching school

The key to faking out the parents is the clammy hands. It's a good non-specific symptom. I'm a big believer in it. A lotta people will tell you that a good phony fever is a dead lock, but, you get a nervous mother, you could wind up in a doctor's office. And that's worse than school. You fake a stomach cramp, and when you're bent over, moaning and wailing, you lick your palms. It's a little childish and stupid, but then, so is school.

 

[pilferk]

Honestly, the way I look at it is, if you post something in a public forum on the internet expect people to comment on it. It may not always be the comments you want or asked for. Once it is out there, it will take on a life of its own. If you accept that before you post, then it is really not that huge of a deal.

If you are not willing to deal with any and all comments, then maybe you shouldn't post it.

See, I would say this: If someone asks a SPECIFIC question, and you don't really have a helpful answer, you should consider the same.

Especially when you KNOW your comments are going to have an inflammatory effect and could/would lead to the OP not really getting any, or as much, helpful info.

But then, maybe that's just my feeling that you have responsibility for your words...even if you're a nameless, faceless "blob" on the net.

CAN you post your opinion? Sure. So long as it doesn't break the mods rules, you CAN. SHOULD you? (And keep in mind, I'm using the global "you" here) That's a different question.

 

[pilferk]

And now back to the regularly scheduled "you should/shouldn't" debate.

Actually, shouldn't that be "UNscheduled"?

 

[Magical Kingdoms]

At my school we would simply say that we'd be going out of town, then when we came back the note would say we were out of town for those two days.

 

[seashoreCM]

Her 3rd grade teacher (first year teacher, at that) used all 10 of her days off to attend bridal showers, visit her fiance, etc. I think it was last year that a neighbor's kid came home and mentioned she'd had a substitute that day because her teacher had flown to another state to visit her boyfriend. And then there was the lovely Friday in May when so many teachers decided to take off and enjoy a long weekend that we couldn't even find enough subs to cover all the classes. .

If a teacher is absent, the class stays in sync., namely everyone falls behind by the same amount.

But the teacher upon return should not assign a double dose of homework (unextrapolatable in advance), all due "tomorrow".

 

[tyniknate]

I just don't get where the problem is. Jobs change and evolve over time. Teachers are not shielded from this happening. Families take vacations during the school year. Teachers know this happens and should be prepared. It's now a normal part of the job description. If I complained every time I had to do something that wasn't part of my "job description", I would never get anything accomplished.
In 2008, when we went to WDW over Thanksgiving break my sons missed 2 days of school. Teachers gave us a little bit of a hard time about missing, but nothing major. Gave us the homework before we left and my sons had time set aside every night to complete assignments.
Imagine our surprise when we saw not one, but two teachers from our district "Skipping School" at WDW while we were there. You've never seen such sheepish smiles when we waved and said "Hi, Mrs. ......., having a good time?" And please don't tell me it doesn't happen all over the country.
All I ask is that teachers do what the job has evolved into. Kids miss school. You are there to provide materials to the students. It's part of the job description. I know you believe you are overworked and underpaid, but aren't we all? I would love to have the job security that you enjoy, but I chose my profession and with it, all of the downfalls. Please just accept yours also.

 

[nytimez]

I have had professors who had simillar philosophies. I actually had one professor who took us on a field trip to a local racetrack to learn how to handicap horses (I went to college in KY). The professors point was that they didn't care when or if you showed up for lectures, your efforts would be evident in your test scores and quality of assignments. Obviously, you would have to show up for exams. I knew people who literally showed up on the first day to pick up the syllabus and wouldn't show back up until test days and they got A's.

I knew a guy like that. If a professor had no attendance policy, you'd pretty much never see him in class... he didn't get A's, but he did pretty well.

"Imagine if I applied myself," he said one day while enjoying a cigarette that appeared to be not tobacco.

I wonder what happened to him.

 

[ccgirl]

From K-2, I learned absolutely nothing new. While my classmates were enjoying Dr. Seuss, I was reading the same books my friends in 4th and 5th grade were reading. I entered kindergarten knowing addition and subtraction, and mastered multiplication and division half way through first grade.

I sat in the classroom, bored to tears because I was ahead of other students intellectually. Was I being penalized for someone else's stupidity just because they were still stuck on "A is for Apple?" No.

Just because you pull your kid out for a week doesn't mean they'll come back behind and become a problem for their classmates. It's all about knowing YOUR CHILD and what they are capable of.

You made a GREAT statement....know YOUR CHILD and what they are capable of. However, I know many parents that ignore this because they want to save a buck. Also, if you were really that far ahead and you were my child I would be looking at other educational options for you.

I dunno -

If you follow that logic then anyone that takes a vacation anytime is infringing someone else's rights.

Anyone in a sevice based business (like teaching) has to expect to have to work around the vacations of their clients. Sometimes this creates headaches but that's just the way it goes.

Attorney's are are a great example, e.g. many work until midnight to meet a client deadline because that client is on vacation next week and needs the contract now.

I think the difference with some teachers is they may forget who it is that is paying them, and who their clients are.

I am very confused by this statement. All taxpayers pay their salary. I pay for the public school teacher salary as well and my children do not attend. Not only do you pay their salary but you pay the police, fire etc. Like others have said the next time someone receives a ticket from a police officer maybe they should tear it up and remind them you already pay their salary. Most teachers help to pay their own salaries too. Again, if you don't want to abide by the rules set forth in the handbook go somewhere else.

I just don't get where the problem is. Jobs change and evolve over time. Teachers are not shielded from this happening. Families take vacations during the school year. Teachers know this happens and should be prepared. It's now a normal part of the job description. If I complained every time I had to do something that wasn't part of my "job description", I would never get anything accomplished.
In 2008, when we went to WDW over Thanksgiving break my sons missed 2 days of school. Teachers gave us a little bit of a hard time about missing, but nothing major. Gave us the homework before we left and my sons had time set aside every night to complete assignments.
Imagine our surprise when we saw not one, but two teachers from our district "Skipping School" at WDW while we were there. You've never seen such sheepish smiles when we waved and said "Hi, Mrs. ......., having a good time?" And please don't tell me it doesn't happen all over the country.
All I ask is that teachers do what the job has evolved into. Kids miss school. You are there to provide materials to the students. It's part of the job description. I know you believe you are overworked and underpaid, but aren't we all? I would love to have the job security that you enjoy, but I chose my profession and with it, all of the downfalls. Please just accept yours also.

Teachers should not be prepared to give homework to so and so to do during vacation. I have never seen that as part of their normal job description. Most teachers are union and they don't need to do anything that is not in their job description. Most teachers also have vacation days too just like you and me. Again, they are sticking to the rules set forth at the beginning of the year. They weren't skipping school, they were using their vacation time.

If you abide by the rules of the handbook and your child has no trouble keeping up then no big deal. It seems like the OP needs to send in an educational letter as part of the rules in the handbook. Kudos to her for following. Some schools just require a letter from parents. Some schools it is unexcused regardless of the letter it is sent.

I have no problem taking my children out for vacation. They are able to keep up. They do not receive homework ahead of time. It is allowed in the handbook. I'm not against taking children at all. The issue I have is the parents saying I know what the guidelines are and I don't care. For one reason or not, I think the guidelines don't apply to me.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

I just don't get where the problem is. Jobs change and evolve over time. Teachers are not shielded from this happening. Families take vacations during the school year. Teachers know this happens and should be prepared. It's now a normal part of the job description. If I complained every time I had to do something that wasn't part of my "job description", I would never get anything accomplished.
In 2008, when we went to WDW over Thanksgiving break my sons missed 2 days of school. Teachers gave us a little bit of a hard time about missing, but nothing major. Gave us the homework before we left and my sons had time set aside every night to complete assignments.
Imagine our surprise when we saw not one, but two teachers from our district "Skipping School" at WDW while we were there. You've never seen such sheepish smiles when we waved and said "Hi, Mrs. ......., having a good time?" And please don't tell me it doesn't happen all over the country.
All I ask is that teachers do what the job has evolved into. Kids miss school. You are there to provide materials to the students. It's part of the job description. I know you believe you are overworked and underpaid, but aren't we all? I would love to have the job security that you enjoy, but I chose my profession and with it, all of the downfalls. Please just accept yours also.

At least in our School District, teachers were very accomodating back in the days when our kids were younger and it was easier to pull them from school. I assume they still are.

However, they would not give us work ahead of time. It was made up after the fact, similar to being out sick. I think many parents expect that the teachers have a packet of information available for their child so they can do it while they are gone. That doesn't happen in our school district, but it may in others. We just dealt with it and didn't ask for any special treatment. When the kids got back, they had to make up all the missed homework, tests, quizes, etc. After a certain point, our kids asked us not to take them out anymore as it was too difficult to make up the missed work. YMMV

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

I can't understand why people are comparing teaching to "service based" business or retail business. Students and parents are not clients. It's absurd to think they are the same. Why do people keep making these comparisons?

Teachers should not be expected to make special arrangements for students that go on vacation. They should not be forced to do extra work so you can pull you child out for a WDW vacation. That's not fair to them. Teachers have families too.

Also, teachers don't work for you because you pay taxes. That's BS.

Absurd?....aren't teachers, firemen, police officers, postal workers etc called public servants? I think it is absurd to contend that a public teacher is anything but in a service business. OF COURSE, that doesn't mean they are doormats or slaves but let's be real. Going further...I think a teacher that does not feel he or she is there to serve in some way has probably lost his/her way a bit and may need a sabbatical......

But what I really meant was that almost all the teachers I know feel they are in a service business...it's a labor of love for most of them...but they feel they are there to help people learn. They don't bellyache about kids taking vacations...they give you the extra work and you have to make it up. It really isn't that difficult....all my kid's teachers use internet programs that provide instant grades and have all work assigments posted. Just last night I did parent/teacher night at our school and they all stated happily and clearly that work required was on the web page and if you miss due to sickness, vacation, holiday whatever you have certain times to make it up.

And we appreciate our teachers. Heck, I wish I could be one!

It is not a client/service provider relationship IMO. It is a student/teacher relationship. In college, when you are paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars a credit hour, do you think your professor will accomodate you if you take a week off for a WDW vacation? Why do some think it's so different when the kids are in elementary or middle school?

See above re: service business.

As to the college hypothetical, the answer is because the state mandates that my children go to school at that age. It is against the law to prevent them from doing so. College, on the other hand, is a privilege you pay for by choice...the professor is the client. And if you blow off your college work, well, you are on your own.

So yeah, if we take a vacation (within the rules...and with permission) I think the elementary teacher should provide the missing work and provide an opportunity to make it up.

In my experience. it's all done in a positive way, we approach, they are happy to help and excited for us etc. The teachers I know (and I get to know my kid's teachers...emails, PTO, class trips etc..we are involved) just roll with the vacations, provide the work, expect it to be made up and love their jobs (and they consider helping out families who are absent here or there as part of their jobs).

Where are all these battle axe teachers that fail 6th graders because they went to WDW in September, or refuse to provide the missed work for make-up? I've never met one like that and I have 5 kids (and I never met one when I was a kid either...nor did my siblings).

Now, like you, we stopped taking the kids out of school because it is too much for them to make up and too much of a burden (high school and 7th/8th grades are way different than 3rd/4th grade!). But man did we have some great Sept/Nov WDW vacations in years past!

 

[nytimez]

Absurd?....aren't teachers, firemen, police officers, postal workers etc called public servants? I think it is absurd to contend that a public teacher is anything but in a service business. OF COURSE, that doesn't mean they are doormats or slaves but let's be real. Going further...I think a teacher that does not feel he or she is there to serve in some way has probably lost his/her way a bit and may need a sabbatical......

But what I really meant was that almost all the teachers I know feel they are in a service business...it's a labor of love for most of them...but they feel they are there to help people learn. They don't bellyache about kids taking vacations...they give you the extra work and you have to make it up. It really isn't that difficult....all my kid's teachers use internet programs that provide instant grades and have all work assigments posted. Just last night I did parent/teacher night at our school and they all stated happily and clearly that work required was on the web page and if you miss due to sickness, vacation, holiday whatever you have certain times to make it up.

And we appreciate our teachers. Heck, I wish I could be one!



See above re: service business.

As to the college hypothetical, the answer is because the state mandates that my children go to school at that age. It is against the law to prevent them from doing so. College, on the other hand, is a privilege you pay for by choice...the professor is the client. And if you blow off your college work, well, you are on your own.

So yeah, if we take a vacation (within the rules...and with permission) I think the elementary teacher should provide the missing work and provide an opportunity to make it up.

In my experience. it's all done in a positive way, we approach, they are happy to help and excited for us etc. The teachers I know (and I get to know my kid's teachers...emails, PTO, class trips etc..we are involved) just roll with the vacations, provide the work, expect it to be made up and love their jobs (and they consider helping out families who are absent here or there as part of their jobs).

Where are all these battle axe teachers that fail 6th graders because they went to WDW in September, or refuse to provide the missed work for make-up? I've never met one like that and I have 5 kids (and I never met one when I was a kid either...nor did my siblings).

Now, like you, we stopped taking the kids out of school because it is too much for them to make up and too much of a burden (high school and 7th/8th grades are way different than 3rd/4th grade!). But man did we have some great Sept/Nov WDW vacations in years past!

You're missing the first word -- public. They are PUBLIC servants, here to serve the greater good of the public as a whole. There are times when focusing on an individual's needs will come at the expense of everyone else -- and when that happens, a decision has to be made. And there's absolutely a difference between giving extra help to a child because he spent a week at Disney World and helping a child because he spent a week in bed with the flu.

People seem to forget that what goes for one, goes for all. There are 20-30 kids in a class, depending on grade and district. If everyone took a week of school time off and expected the teacher to spend his or her extra time helping the child to catch up it could come at the expense of the actual new material that needs to be presented.

So, it is absolutely NOT a teacher's responsibility to ensure that every single child gets extra help and extra work so that they can spend a week in Disney World. It's great if they can help and most teachers will, but that responsibility falls squarely onto the parents.

And this is absolutely different from the approach of a customer-service focused business where your goal is to prevent every dollar from walking out the door.

 

[KSDisneyDad]

So yeah, if we take a vacation (within the rules...and with permission) I think the elementary teacher should provide the missing work and provide an opportunity to make it up.

I agree overall with the tone of your updated post. The OP you had using the attorney analogy that worked until midnight for a client seemed a bit extreme.

We've always had our teachers give us the work after we returned. I think that expecting a teacher to work extra ahead of time for one child seems extreme. However, once the lesson plan is done for all the kids, I see no reason why the teacher can't give the students the assignments so they can make it up. It may not happen on the parent's desired schedule and there shouldn't be an expectation to that effect either. Most teachers are wonderful and will help you out if you work with them after you return.

I also agree in staying in communication with all the teachers and administration. This has helped us out so much over the years!

I am thankful we are not in a school district that frowns upon missing school for vacations or requires an educational trip excuse to do so. Even though we no longer pull our kids, it was nice when we could.

 

[MikeandReneePlus5]

You're missing the first word -- public. They are PUBLIC servants, here to serve the greater good of the public as a whole. There are times when focusing on an individual's needs will come at the expense of everyone else -- and when that happens, a decision has to be made. And there's absolutely a difference between giving extra help to a child because he spent a week at Disney World and helping a child because he spent a week in bed with the flu.

People seem to forget that what goes for one, goes for all. There are 20-30 kids in a class, depending on grade and district. If everyone took a week of school time off and expected the teacher to spend his or her extra time helping the child to catch up it could come at the expense of the actual new material that needs to be presented.

So, it is absolutely NOT a teacher's responsibility to ensure that every single child gets extra help and extra work so that they can spend a week in Disney World. It's great if they can help and most teachers will, but that responsibility falls squarely onto the parents.

And this is absolutely different from the approach of a customer-service focused business where your goal is to prevent every dollar from walking out the door.

I agree overall with the tone of your updated post. The OP you had using the attorney analogy that worked until midnight for a client seemed a bit extreme.

We've always had our teachers give us the work after we returned. I think that expecting a teacher to work extra ahead of time for one child seems extreme. However, once the lesson plan is done for all the kids, I see no reason why the teacher can't give the students the assignments so they can make it up. It may not happen on the parent's desired schedule and there shouldn't be an expectation to that effect either. Most teachers are wonderful and will help you out if you work with them after you return.

I also agree in staying in communication with all the teachers and administration. This has helped us out so much over the years!

I am thankful we are not in a school district that frowns upon missing school for vacations or requires an educational trip excuse to do so. Even though we no longer pull our kids, it was nice when we could.

I'm on board with both these posts.

So you've got that going for you....which is nice.