Saving on International Airfare

[cseca]

Whether I chance it or not would depend on how long the flight is and how I'd feel if we are not to get an extra seat.
If the flight is short enough (4hrs or less), I probably won't buy her a seat. But you're talking about czech, that would mean around 8hrs-ish. I don't know how you'd feel about holding a toddler the whole time. My DD would have a fit if she has to sit on me or DH for that long... but your your baby is a pretty quiet one then you might be ok.

 

[Princess Melody]

We just did a leg of that exact flight 2 weeks ago (Atlanta to Amsterdam and back booked via Delta, which put us on KLM flights). We are two adults but when I fly overseas, I always check the open/available seats just before we leave to see if there are any empty rows of seats so we'd have more space to stretch out. Both times there were empty rows and plenty of available seats we could move to when I checked the night before departure and both times the planes ended up being 100% full at departure. I would recommend buying your daughter a seat.
Within Europe we did all of our traveling from country to country by high speed train, which I loved and would do with a little one over an airplane if it were an option.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Honestly, for a toddler, even if the airline was willing to give you a seat for her for free I would not bring the car seat. The seat pushes her MUCH further forward towards the seatback in front of you and makes it much, much easier for her to kick that seat back. It is often impossible to put the tray table down while using a carseat as well. You will be better off just using a lapbelt if you are lucky and there is an empty seat.
Asking for bulkhead (as previously mentioned) is a nice idea and worth a try, but lately those seats are priced higher and nearly always booked.
I cannot really recall seeing a car seat on any international flights (or flights within Europe). And as others have said the planes are flying pretty much at capacity all the time recently.

 

[PottersMom]

every day I go back and forth on this decision. Now I am convinced we won't get lucky and get the extra seat. So I am trying to decide if we can do it with her as a lap baby. We'll never be able to do it that way again. (at least with this child) SO even if it the most miserable 10 hours of my life, well, 20 if you count the way home. Only 20 hours out of MY WHOLE LIFE, and it saves me enough dough to book my missed Disney trip in the Spring!

 

[jsmith]

Call the airline and verify the cost of a lap baby-you may not get the savings you think--katieds post said 10 percent of the highest fare for that class-so if you are looking at 900 as a non refundable internet purchase-but the highest fare for that class is a refundable 2300 dollar fair you will be paying 230 no 90-still a savings but not what you think. I believe she said her sons ticket was 1100 dollars-that would be 10 percent of alot.
We flew from Atlanta to Venice 3 weeks ago and back from Rome to Detriot yesterday on Delta-both flights were full-there were no opportunities for upgrade to business class because it was full and Rome to Detroit was oversold. I think you need to make your decision assuming that the flight will be full -and decide if you want a seat for your daughter-or if you have the fortitude to wrestle a toddler for 10 hours each way.

 

[quasar4legs]

I know the $900 is a lot of money but I see this as a safety issue and would get your little one their own seat.

Have a look at the website www.kidsflysafe.com for some useful information and they also have a link to CARES aviation restraints that utilises a harness system that doesn't rely on your car seat.

Best wishes for the trip, I am sure you will all have a wonderful trip.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I know the $900 is a lot of money but I see this as a safety issue and would get your little one their own seat.

Have a look at the website www.kidsflysafe.com for some useful information and they also have a link to CARES aviation restraints that utilises a harness system that doesn't rely on your car seat.

Best wishes for the trip, I am sure you will all have a wonderful trip.

I am not knocking your take on this at all because I know it is a very tough issue to sort out and even experts have varying opinions (partly because --thankfully-- there just aren't enough crashes to have a large body of data). I completely respect your opinion, and you may well be right that it is safer. However, I want to present the other side, which is where my opinion lies. I base it largely on talking to my brother in law. He designs air bags for commercial aircraft and is by pretty much any measure an aviation safety expert. He has testified at safety hearing in both the US and England (and likely other places i just don't pay that much attention to his career) and is very often quoted in articles that come out after an airlines does go down. He did not use a carseat for his son on airplanes and thinks they are more dangerous. The short version of why is that the vast majority of crashes either kill everyone on impact or no one. A car seat does you no good in the first scenario and hampers a quick evacuation in the second. Being able to evacuate quickly is a life saver. The car seat is hard to get out of fast, especially in a smoke filled (no visibility) and/or wet (slippery buckles) environment. Add to that the possibility of being at odd angles or the possibility that the parent is injured and may not be able to help the toddler and others may not realize the child is essentially locked in the wreckage and likely being exposed to deadly amounts of smoke, possible explosion, etc.
He also points out that when there is a sole survivor, given the number of children on typical flights the percentage of such survivors which are young children is unusually high. Most people think it is because they are more flexible and handle the impact better. As a sole survivor of the CRASH a child would not be able to get out him or herself for a carseat and then would not survive the smoke inhalation/fire/explosion that comes after the crash.

It is hard to really know what is safer (but we know being on a commercial aircraft is vastly safer than being well restrained in a car no matter what else), but at least it is good to have opinions from all sides and then form your own.

 

[crashbb]

I am not knocking your take on this at all because I know it is a very tough issue to sort out and even experts have varying opinions (partly because --thankfully-- there just aren't enough crashes to have a large body of data). I completely respect your opinion, and you may well be right that it is safer. However, I want to present the other side, which is where my opinion lies. I base it largely on talking to my brother in law. He designs air bags for commercial aircraft and is by pretty much any measure an aviation safety expert. He has testified at safety hearing in both the US and England (and likely other places i just don't pay that much attention to his career) and is very often quoted in articles that come out after an airlines does go down. He did not use a carseat for his son on airplanes and thinks they are more dangerous. The short version of why is that the vast majority of crashes either kill everyone on impact or no one. A car seat does you no good in the first scenario and hampers a quick evacuation in the second. Being able to evacuate quickly is a life saver. The car seat is hard to get out of fast, especially in a smoke filled (no visibility) and/or wet (slippery buckles) environment. Add to that the possibility of being at odd angles or the possibility that the parent is injured and may not be able to help the toddler and others may not realize the child is essentially locked in the wreckage and likely being exposed to deadly amounts of smoke, possible explosion, etc.
He also points out that when there is a sole survivor, given the number of children on typical flights the percentage of such survivors which are young children is unusually high. Most people think it is because they are more flexible and handle the impact better. As a sole survivor of the CRASH a child would not be able to get out him or herself for a carseat and then would not survive the smoke inhalation/fire/explosion that comes after the crash.

It is hard to really know what is safer (but we know being on a commercial aircraft is vastly safer than being well restrained in a car no matter what else), but at least it is good to have opinions from all sides and then form your own.

While there may be debate about whether or not being in a car seat versus harness versus regular seat belt is safer, I have never seen anyone debate that any of those is safe than being held on the parent's lap. In a crash, but more importantly in turbulence (much more likely), a lap child is much less safe than a child with a seat. I read the PP to be talking about this.

 

[NHdisneylover]

While there may be debate about whether or not being in a car seat versus harness versus regular seat belt is safer, I have never seen anyone debate that any of those is safe than being held on the parent's lap. In a crash, but more importantly in turbulence (much more likely), a lap child is much less safe than a child with a seat. I read the PP to be talking about this.

Oh maybe. Then yes, I seat belt is safer. I think the extension seat belt for lap kids would be about the same though Basically it is just an issue of people having a hard time maintaining a grip in turbulence or landing isn't it? I am truly asking, not telling as I am not sure at all

 

[crashbb]

Oh maybe. Then yes, I seat belt is safer. I think the extension seat belt for lap kids would be about the same though Basically it is just an issue of people having a hard time maintaining a grip in turbulence or landing isn't it? I am truly asking, not telling as I am not sure at all

I would think that maintaining a grip on the child is the issue. I haven't read the data, so I don't really know, but the argument that North American airlines (or perhaps the FAA) make is that tying your child into your seat belt essentially turns them into an airbag for you. I know that I've been on a few planes that do have a little airbag built into the seat belt (essentially looks like the seat belt has a little stuffed bag on it) right where the child would be if you used an extension seat belt for a lap child.

I'm not really sure why North America and Europe differ so greatly on this issue.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I would think that maintaining a grip on the child is the issue. I haven't read the data, so I don't really know, but the argument that North American airlines (or perhaps the FAA) make is that tying your child into your seat belt essentially turns them into an airbag for you. I know that I've been on a few planes that do have a little airbag built into the seat belt (essentially looks like the seat belt has a little stuffed bag on it) right where the child would be if you used an extension seat belt for a lap child.

I'm not really sure why North America and Europe differ so greatly on this issue.

Me either
Oh, and my DBiL designed those air bags (okay I am sure it was probably a team effort--I don't really ask questions). I am jealous, I have never flown with one and i want to see it.
I get the kids as airbag argument but that goes back to the odds being exceedingly slim of being involved in a crash in which you would survive impact that this would matter for. It does help with turbulence I think, which is where the main issue is.
IDK--my DD rode as a lap child 2 or 3 times and all the rest we had seats for the kids but they never used their carseats on board. I feel good about that decision. Other parents feel good about using the car seats. It is just one of those issues that is not clear cut and everyone has to decide for themselves.

 

[ColdNorway]

You can always look for the best seat on the flight your considering by useing http://www.seatguru.com/
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And find the best airline for you needs at
http://www.airlinequality.com/
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And here some of my tips for You
Try to find an airline and route that use a "BIG" airplane. (747/767/777/A330/a340/)
An late flight and more likely to NOT being full. Have the Atlantic Depart time at 22-23 pm,instead of 5-8 pm
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The online "real" seat availability chart will open 24,hr(22hr)prior to Your flight.
From there use the online check inn 24 hr in advanced ,and if You have chosen seats when You booked,then you can NOW rearrange that,but NOW there are ALOT more seats to choose from.
There are ALWAYS more empty seats in the back of the plane,so choosing an middle row all the way back in an 4 or 5 aisle (NOT the window row),i can almost guarantee You the whole row alone,if the plane is NOT full. No one like to sit in the middle of 4/5 seats right beside the bathrooms and the airline will only place people there it they HAVE to.
If You SPOT ANY EMTY seats or rows in the plane and the airplane door CLOSES RUN RUN RUN to the empty row.
There are others (yes,me) who will do this if Your not fast enough

And also an last tip : The cheaper the price are for the ticket,the likeliness of empty seats will increase. Bye the 850$ ticket instead of the 870$ ticket if the same airline has more that One flight that day even if that will make your timing a little worse.

Good Luck on Your trip,and im sure it will work out ok.