Saratoga - maybe OT - need legal advice

[kawanku]

All: I think I got frauded by timeshare broker regarding renting Saratoga Spring and I do apologize if I post in the wrong area.

I really do not know what to do next (I live in GA and the broker is in CA) and if any of you can let me know - I really really appreciate it.....

I saw an ad online at TUG -
$1600.00 Firm

wk: 51 / 2008
Saturday To Saturday
Two Bedroom Lockout
2 Bathrooms
Sleeps 6

TimeshareVacationConnections
1 888 798 9229 #1 Daniel

-----
I know it sounds too good to be true but I have rented before using the ad in TUG and had no problem. I exchanged communication with the company and was sent some type of simple agreement to fill out my information. They told me to send the money with the agreement and after the owner signed the agreement, they would send me a copy.

This is the last communication that I got from them:
Date: Sep 15, 2008 10:41 AM

Mr. Sumardi,
We have received signed agreement from the owner of your rental in Dec, 2008. We will be converting to hard copies in the next 48 hours, then send them along to you. Keep this document on your person, when you leave for your holiday. You will receive it in 10-14 days from Wed Sept. 17th 2008. In about 2 weeks from a confirmation email from you, that you received it, we will send a confirmation from the resort itself.

Best Regards,


--------

So I waited patiently until last week when I didn't get anything. I called the company and was told that the mail was returned and they would try to send it again. I still didn't get it until now and when I called them - they didn't answer anymore and they disconnected one of the number I was given during initial call.

--------
It actually worse than the above too... I am sorry that I have to unload here... I have weaknesses over Disney and I thought that I found a deal....
The company offered me to buy Saratoga points - 150 pts for $7,000 since the owner desparately needs to sell..... I was again given the simple blank agreement and was told to send $3,500 which they said would be deposited into Escrow account.

This is the last email I got regarding this issue:
Date: Sep 12, 2008 10:46 AM
Dear Mr. Sumardi,
I just received your note and deposit. Yes $7,000.00 is the total amount, closing fees are subtracted out from the $7,000.00.
I will be updating you in 30 days or sooner, depending on the resorts progress.

Best Regards,

--------
I called the company about this too last week but was told - it usually took 120 days to complete transactions so I didn't ask more.... Now, with me not getting confirmation of my rental and not being able to contact them... can you advise me some kind of actions that I can start working on?

I accept the fact that I will not go to Disney (Or own Disney points) and I just try to get at least part of my money back.....

PLEASE HELP!!!!


Thanks

Benny

 

[dudelydude]

Wow! Well that's quite the pickle. Because most people here deal directly with Disney or with one of 3 or 4 resale companies for DVC, I don't know if you are going to get much help. What I would do first is determine if your payments can be cancelled if you wrote personal checks or paid through your credit cards. Next, the FBI has an internet fraud division, which you can google to find out how to open a case. Just make sure to clearly and concisely journal the timeline of your contact with the people that defrauded you with dates and times and any other specifics to give the FBI a very accurate idea of what has happened to you.

I am really sorry for your losses and hope that you get the help that you need.

Joe

 

[np4gp]

Have you looked at www.bbb.org and searched for this company to see if they have a negative history or are registered with the BBB?
That sounds absolutely awful and I wish you much luck in getting a remedy. I would check the above posts options of opening an internet fraud complaint and check the company out on bbb.org

 

[kawanku]

I just check bbb - it is rated C


Complaint Closing Statistics
The following grid displays the number and responses to complaints over the last 36 months:


No. of Cmpl Type of Response
0 Making a full refund, as the consumer requested
0 Making a partial refund
0 Agreeing to perform according to their contract
0 Refusing to make an adjustment
0 Refuse to adjust, relying on terms of agreement
1 Unanswered
0 Unassigned
1 Total

Other Considerations
Mail sent to this company was returned by the post office as "moved; left no forward address," "forward order has expired," or "unable to locate." The Bureau cannot trace addresses of companies or principals. General information is available upon request which may assist you.

------
I called my bank (I sent checks) - and since the checks already cleared - there is nothing that I can do.....

 

[bookwormde]

There are lots of things you can do but none of them are easy. Most state’s attorney generals offices have a department of consumer protection, which can generally at least start you in the direction of the organizations that regulate the company you were involved with. In the end it is fraud, if it is intentional and not just incompetence so the regulating agency should be able to help you determine which it is.

bookwormde

 

[Brian Noble]

You said it yourself:

I know it sounds too good to be true

And that should have been your first clue. That week is about 327 points. You were offered a rental price of less than $5/point---completely unheard of, especially for a Christmas week.

Then, after demonstrating your gullibility, you were made an offer to buy points at about $44/point---or, a little more than half market value. Again---completely implausible.

They gave you some story about needing to wait several weeks to get any confirmation. That was only so that they could hook as many people as possible with this too-good-to-be-true price before slipping away in the dark of night---my guess is there is now no way to contact "Daniel" (which isn't his real name) because all the phone numbers are disconnected.

So now, you're out about $4600, give or take. At the average hourly rate of $200, that's about 23 hours of billable time---you'll consume 1/3 of that just getting someone to follow the paper trail of who registered the company so that there is someone to actually name in a suit. It also assumes there might be any money left---and I'm guessing there isn't. I don't see any hope of going through this as a private law matter.

This looks criminal; you should call your local police agency, and see if they can help you understand who has jurisdiction. You might also post your story on TUG; there's a chance that others might have also been defrauded by the same guy. There's also a chance that the TUG administrators might have more information about who placed the ad. I'm guessing that you mailed the checks to a P.O. Box, in which case the post office that has that box might be interested and/or able to help, too.

I have rented before using the ad in TUG and had no problem.

From the same company, or with another ad you found on TUG? If the latter, it's important to remember that TUG is really just a classified ad market---anyone can post an ad there.

I hate to say it, but you got hooked by your own greed. Those prices aren't even close to realistic----they're about half what they should have been.

 

[Mtnman44]

I'll just second what Brian suggested. Try to find any other vicitims of this same individual on TUG or elsewhere.

If you mailed a check, through the U.S. postal system, contact the Postal Inspection Service. They are often able to open a criminal investigation where other agencies choose not to (due to resources, small $ loss, jurisdiction, whatever).

However, you should know that you will likely never get your money back based on the information you have provided here. I'm sorry. I'm just glad they didn't get more out of you. Hopefully, you will come out of this a much wiser person.

On another post I stated that renting points from a stranger was far too risky for me and anyone doing so should use extreme caution. Another poster called this "fear mongering at its highest level". Well, OK, I guess each person has to decide how much risk/reward there is to renting points.

I wish you good luck.

 

[Jaaron2]

 

[TUG]

Someone sent me this thread recently in an email and I figured I would respond.

Firstly TUG does not tolerate scams under any circumstances, in fact we exist to warn users and attempt to prevent that situation if possible.

While we at TUG do not disclose membership information, this may be an exception.

I have sent an email to both the email address listed on the ad in question, and the email address used to register the membership back in Feb (they are different) with a link to this thread and asking for an explanation and or their side of the story. I truly hope this is just a misunderstanding and any money paid will be refunded as applicable.

I have also suspended all other ads this user has posted on TUG pending the outcome of this issue.

For the individual who was looking to buy via this ad, please keep in contact with me at tug at tug2 dot net and I will do what I can to mediate this situation.

(sorry...but it says without 10 posts I cant put in an email address in my post.)

Thank you

 

[kawanku]

All - thanks for the pointers.... The checks were mailed using Fedex as they requested (I assume Fedex will not open up any investigation based on your reply). I also know the bank they got deposited with their account number since I printed a copy of the checks from my online banking statement but I do not think that I can do anything with it.... Can I call the other bank to open an investigation?

I will look into posting to TUG (not sure how to do that) and find out more for office of consumer affair....

 

[kawanku]

To : TUG

Wow - this is the first post that put some relieve in me.... I am not expecting anything good will come up based on the pointers and I am ready to lose everything that I have saved..... but for you to try to help me out - I CAN"T SAY THANK YOU ENOUGH....

I am just hoping the best for your organization - on personal level, I have used to rent so many times... i.e: I got the whole week at studio OKW for $500 before, again I have got 1 BR the whole week for $800.... I agree that it might have been too good from price per point - but I am flexible in the time and sometime some owner just need to get some money back due to whatever their situation... That's why it didn't really raise any red flag to me... (as some poster said I am gullible....LOL). I think most people are honest and I have never had any single problem renting from TUG or DIS.... (I also believe TUG, Redweek and DIS are so reputable!!)

Well - I hope to hear something regardless how bad it is....


Thanks again....

 

[TUG]

To : TUG

Wow - this is the first post that put some relieve in me.... I am not expecting anything good will come up based on the pointers and I am ready to lose everything that I have saved..... but for you to try to help me out - I CAN"T SAY THANK YOU ENOUGH....

I am just hoping the best for your organization - on personal level, I have used to rent so many times... i.e: I got the whole week at studio OKW for $500 before, again I have got 1 BR the whole week for $800.... I agree that it might have been too good from price per point - but I am flexible in the time and sometime some owner just need to get some money back due to whatever their situation... That's why it didn't really raise any red flag to me... (as some poster said I am gullible....LOL). I think most people are honest and I have never had any single problem renting from TUG or DIS.... (I also believe TUG, Redweek and DIS are so reputable!!)

Well - I hope to hear something regardless how bad it is....


Thanks again....

Anytime, I will do everything I can to get this resolved. and I truly hope this is just a big misunderstanding and it can get sorted out properly!

I have never heard of a single fradulent ad posted on TUG in its existance (spam emails to people who have posted ads...well thats a different story...impossible to eliminate them)

It makes me ill to think that someone has used TUG for something like this, which is why I want so much to believe its just a mixup and we can get you sorted out by just getting in touch with the seller in question.

Hopefully I will get a response to my email soon.

 

[Brian Noble]

I certainly hope this is just a misunderstanding, as well. I don't think it is, but I've been wrong before.

Someone sent me this thread recently in an email and I figured I would respond.

That was me. Thanks!

 

[kawanku]

Brian - thanks for sending the thread to TUG - I guess that is the best thing ever happened to me in this issue......

I also hope that this is just misunderstanding by the company being busy etc....

 

[danv3]

This may have been suggested above, but contact the California attorney general. They should have a consumer protection division to handle this type of complaint.

You might also try contacting your local media. They may have a "troubleshooter" who can apply pressure to the broker if they can be located.

Unfortunately due to the relatively small amount involved it may be hard to get a lawyer to take the case so law enforcement may be your best bet.

 

[Dean]

I'd also contact DVC and alert them. While there isn't anything official they can do, they may be able to help somewhat. This sounds like an Interval Exchange they were renting so you might also call II and see what's up. Sorry it happened even if it gets worked out. What are your dates? Do you have air already or are you driving from ATL?

 

[TUG]

It would appear that some of my posts were edited and my signature removed for violation of disboard posting rules, and I sincerely apologize.

as the owner of TUG I can certainly understand the need to adhere to and maintain the rules of the forum (as we do on TUG)

I just wanted to make it clear that I am merely trying to help this individual out as best I can since it involves my site to an extent.

Since the individual in question isnt even a TUG member, this is nothing more than one timeshare owner trying to help out another. However I apologize if I broke any rules, it was not at all my intent.

I will continue to help sort out this situation privately so as not to risk further infractions here.

 

[lugnut33]

TUG, that's pretty stand up of you to do this, even if nothing comes about it in the end.

Have you personally been in contact with Kawanku?

And, if you could keep this thread updated as to any results, it would be greatfully appreciated.

Good luck to both you and Kawanku.

 

[dianeschlicht]

All - thanks for the pointers.... The checks were mailed using Fedex as they requested (I assume Fedex will not open up any investigation based on your reply). I also know the bank they got deposited with their account number since I printed a copy of the checks from my online banking statement but I do not think that I can do anything with it.... Can I call the other bank to open an investigation?

I will look into posting to TUG (not sure how to do that) and find out more for office of consumer affair....

This makes it look even more like a scam. When they specifically request you to use something other than US mail to send payment, there's a reason. If they defraud through the US Mail, it's a federal offense and carries a much larger penalty. You can try the bank angle, but I doubt you'll get anywhere with that.

 

[disneynutz]

Sorry that this happened, but it looks like you have been scammed.

The website is down and registration records trace back to a Tampa FL address that is advertised as a vacant rental. Several businesses and "get rich quick" ads also trace back to the same building.

ebay listings from the same people have had scam warnings posted against them and the positive feedbacks were all made by the same ebay ID. They also have listings in Vietnamese.

They have posted on several Craig's lists across the country.