ROTR Boarding group issues resolution thoughts

[Malcon10t]

Since DL has so many AP’s. Once you ride, you are not allowed to get an other guaranteed Boarding Group for a period of time (let’s say 14-21 days). You can only be able to book a backup boarding group. This will allow the day guest, vacation groups a better chance as they are there for only a limited amount of time. Who is really winning going to DL at 5:30 in the morning to play a lottery system.

So, are these guests who bought a 3 day ticket also only allowed 1 BG every 14 or 21 days also? As an example, I will be coming down next weekend on my AP. I will be there 2 days. On your plan, I would only be allowed to get 1 ride over those 2 days. My next visit is likely not til April. To be honest, I will likely only ride once anyway. Many people who have APs and live outside the area only make 2-3 trips a year. Limiting them to only 1 ride a trip doesn't seem fair either.

No system is going to be fair to everyone. But I think DIsney;s system is about as fair as it can get.

 

[JPTexan82]

So, are these guests who bought a 3 day ticket also only allowed 1 BG every 14 or 21 days also? As an example, I will be coming down next weekend on my AP. I will be there 2 days. On your plan, I would only be allowed to get 1 ride over those 2 days. My next visit is likely not til April. To be honest, I will likely only ride once anyway. Many people who have APs and live outside the area only make 2-3 trips a year. Limiting them to only 1 ride a trip doesn't seem fair either.

No system is going to be fair to everyone. But I think DIsney;s system is about as fair as it can get.

You get moved to the backup boarding group. So there is still hope to be able to ride.

 

[VandVsmama]

For what it’s worth. I follow tons of AP instagrams and YouTube. It usually goes like this:

new thing : tons of AP flock to it. Take pictures. Expirence it. Have to be first.

then it dies down, they will go back every once in awhile for said thing, but not every trip.

this whole discussion about AP holders “not standing for the BG” is just silly to me.

they will go early in the morning every so often to do the ride. but will also continue to come later in the day to do all the other things. At the end of the day it’s 1 ride in Disneyland.

The only thing that will be interesting to see play out is if a local comes, and then gets a BG that doesn’t ride early enough to their satisfaction is that They just won’t show up for it. Which may bode better for the later in the day BG.


personally I don’t think there is any issue with the BG. WDW got to BG 164 today. Disneyland will get there. The ride will become more consistent.
Getting a BG will become more successful. And huge standby line will be avoided for awhile.

I agree. I saw some of that AP behavior on a couple of YouTube videos I saw that showed the ROTR opening day stuff. One youtuber got a boarding group, but it was a higher # and he had somewhere else he had to be by a certain time, so he left without going on the ride. On another Youtube video, the Youtuber's friend left early evening because, like the other person, he also had somewhere he had to be. So he had a boarding group and had to abandon it, too.

Back when the Finding Nemo submarines debuted, an AP-holder friend at the time told me that AP holders, generally speaking, are willing to take off an entire day of work to just stand in line for hours to go on the new (or newly refurbished) ride on its opening day. She also told me to not worry about it because they soon stop doing that once they've gotten their 1 or 2 rides on it...and then they go back to their regular DL park behavior (going after work for a couple of hours, going on a Sunday afternoon, ride a couple of rides, eat at a QS restaurant, go home after about a max of 4 hours).

 

[DLgal]

I will say I doubt Disney is too fussed by the BG fervor. The press around the opening of SWGE wasn't stellar, and all those people who said, "Just wait until ROTR opens!" turned out to be right. Disney has a smash hit on its hands, and if it's biggest problem is that TOO MANY guests want to get on the thing... well, that's a good problem to have.

They are definitely "fussed." I was in the parks Friday and yesterday and I swear, I have never seen so many "manager" types hovering around Main street. Literally dozens. Dealing with unhappy guests right after the BG "Hunger Games" minute. People are complaining. A lot. It is not an ideal situation for Disney.

 

[EmJ]

They are definitely "fussed." I was in the parks Friday and yesterday and I swear, I have never seen so many "manager" types hovering around Main street. Literally dozens. Dealing with unhappy guests right after the BG "Hunger Games" minute. People are complaining. A lot. It is not an ideal situation for Disney.

Okay. Then I hope they can think of something, but the reality is they have thousands of more people who want to ride this attraction than it can currently support. Short of “making it go better” and putting 1,500 people though an hour, there is nothing Disney can do to stop guest complaints. Right now it’s, “Your IT stinks and my button didn’t turn red” or “I don’t want to be here at rope drop.” If they change the process, some of the people currently complaining might be happy, but all you do is trade them for other people saying, “I don’t want to stand in line for 6 hours” or “I stood in line for 6 hours and it broke and I didn’t get to do anything today” or “I entered the lottery five times and I didn’t get picked” or “It’s ridiculous that I have to show up at 2 am to have a snowball’s chance at the standby line” or “Your IT stinks and the fast passes were gone in 5 seconds.”

People complain. A lot. About everything. The only way that’s going to stop is if people lose interest in this ride, or it starts functioning at peak performance

 

[DLgal]

Okay. Then I hope they can think of something, but the reality is they have thousands of more people who want to ride this attraction than it can currently support. Short of “making it go better” and putting 1,500 people though an hour, there is nothing Disney can do to stop guest complaints. Right now it’s, “Your IT stinks and my button didn’t turn red” or “I don’t want to be here at rope drop.” If they change the process, some of the people currently complaining might be happy, but all you do is trade them for other people saying, “I don’t want to stand in line for 6 hours” or “I stood in line for 6 hours and it broke and I didn’t get to do anything today” or “I entered the lottery five times and I didn’t get picked” or “It’s ridiculous that I have to show up at 2 am to have a snowball’s chance at the standby line” or “Your IT stinks and the fast passes were gone in 5 seconds.”

People complain. A lot. About everything. The only way that’s going to stop is if people lose interest in this ride, or it starts functioning at peak performance

I get what you are saying, truly. However as a VERY frequent visitor, this deployment of "plain clothed people wearing Disney badges" (i.e. managers/executive level employees) is notable and like nothing I have seen in the 19 years I have been an AP holder.

People have those types complaints you mentioned literally every day, and it's handled by Guest Relations behind the scenes with nary a fuss. The sheer number of managers present and deployed on Main Street leads me to believe they knew going in it would be a mess, and they had those people ready to handle the fall out.

It's not a good look.

There are numerous rides in the park that command long waits every day, and people VOLUNTARILY get in those lines knowing full well how long it will be, and that the ride can go down at any moment (RSR and Indiana Jones are good examples of this, as those rides go down at LEAST once every day, sometimes multiple times.) Park goers know to expect that. It's part of the whole theme park experience. It's an outcome that is understood. This system is a break from what people are accustomed to. Disney is asking people to effectively change their habits for just this ONE ride and that is very difficult for people to do, as anyone who has tried to break an entrenched behavior can attest to. Generally, people resist change like this.

 

[EmJ]

I get what you are saying, truly. However as a VERY frequent visitor, this deployment of "plain clothed people wearing Disney badges" (i.e. managers/executive level employees) is notable and like nothing I have seen in the 19 years I have been an AP holder.

People have those types complaints you mentioned literally every day, and it's handled by Guest Relations behind the scenes with nary a fuss. The sheer number of managers present and deployed on Main Street leads me to believe they knew going in it would be a mess, and they had those people ready to handle the fall out.

It's not a good look.

There are numerous rides in the park that command long waits every day, and people VOLUNTARILY get in those lines knowing full well how long it will be, and that the ride can go down at any moment (RSR and Indiana Jones are good examples of this, as those rides go down at LEAST once every day, sometimes multiple times.) Park goers know to expect that. It's part of the whole theme park experience. It's an outcome that is understood. This system is a break from what people are accustomed to. Disney is asking people to effectively change their habits for just this ONE ride and that is very difficult for people to do, as anyone who has tried to break an entrenched behavior can attest to. Generally, people resist change like this.

I agree that people resist change, and maybe DL *will* throw up it’s hands, go to straight standby like MFSR, and let the chips fall where they may. It’s ironic though, because everyone, up to and including Bob Iger himself, gave Universal such a hard time about its handling of Hagrid’s, but now it seems people are advocating for the same thing on ROTR. Maybe it just shows that there is no perfect—and maybe not even a “better”—way to handle red hot new attractions like this. Only different ways, which benefit and disappoint different groups of people.

 

[DLgal]

I agree that people resist change, and maybe DL *will* throw up it’s hands, go to straight standby like MFSR, and let the chips fall where they may. It’s ironic though, because everyone, up to and including Bob Iger himself, gave Universal such a hard time about its handling of Hagrid’s, but now it seems people are advocating for the same thing on ROTR. Maybe it just shows that there is no perfect—and maybe not even a “better”—way to handle red hot new attractions like this. Only different ways, which benefit and disappoint different groups of people.

At the end of the day, the Hagrid's debacle was a result of unreliability and a ride that wasn't ready to be opened yet. Disney is guilty of the same thing, as evidenced by yesterday's down times, specifically.

Disney's mistake was announcing a hard opening date and sticking with it WITHOUT doing a period of soft opening, to actually put the ride through its paces. I don't understand why Disney stopped this practice (ride soft openings). It is a very beneficial way to see how the rides work with typical park guests. They should have run limited, unannounced operating hours for a few weeks.

 

[PaladinButters]

I haven't heard an idea for boarding ROTR that I think would result in fewer disappointed guests overall than the current boarding group method,

Reservations for APs? They would be ridiculously hard to get but at least you wouldn't drive all the way to the parks to find out if you had a shot. Hold back X% for vacationers/day tickets. Staying on property gets you in a group with your early entry? Best I can do.

Oh ! Or add a BG on to maxpass for an insane amount of money and watch as people pay it anyway while the executives swim in their money pools like Scrooge McDuck!

 

[Gaugersaurus]

At the end of the day, the Hagrid's debacle was a result of unreliability and a ride that wasn't ready to be opened yet. Disney is guilty of the same thing, as evidenced by yesterday's down times, specifically.

Disney's mistake was announcing a hard opening date and sticking with it WITHOUT doing a period of soft opening, to actually put the ride through its paces. I don't understand why Disney stopped this practice (ride soft openings). It is a very beneficial way to see how the rides work with typical park guests. They should have run limited, unannounced operating hours for a few weeks.

How do we not know this boarding group period is not the evolution of soft openings? I think we've seen a trend (especially with social media) that if word gets out of soft opening happening everyone descends on the parks/attraction for a chance at the soft opening which leads to crowds gathering around said attraction waiting for a chance of a soft open. It's the same as when SWGE first opened with reservation only, it was essentially a soft open where Disney controlled its biggest variable of park guests.

Personally I like the way @dieumeye explained it, every "right" answer is going to end up with disappointed people. Also, even if the ride was operating with 0 downtime there are capacity limits and not everyone will get to ride, it's just the reality of theme park operations.

 

[dieumeye]

At the end of the day, the Hagrid's debacle was a result of unreliability and a ride that wasn't ready to be opened yet. Disney is guilty of the same thing, as evidenced by yesterday's down times, specifically.

Disney's mistake was announcing a hard opening date and sticking with it WITHOUT doing a period of soft opening, to actually put the ride through its paces. I don't understand why Disney stopped this practice (ride soft openings). It is a very beneficial way to see how the rides work with typical park guests. They should have run limited, unannounced operating hours for a few weeks.

I don’t get it either. I’m on the side of the current BG process as the best way to handle the current situation.

But I think they should have done a “reservation period” for RotR like they did for the land. Obviously, you had to book the initial limited reservations slots. But after that it was easy. It was so awesome to experience the land that way.

They could have done the same for RotR by NOT announcing a wide opening date, and just doing a “limited reservation only soft opening”.

Of course, all this stems back to the main problem of the ride not being ready when it was initially supposed to be, and still not exactly being ready for prime time now that it is officially open.

 

[SoCalDisneyFan2708]

For what it’s worth, I’m an AP, I came on Friday and got a BG and rode RotR. It’s great. Amazing! But I also came to the park Saturday and Sunday and didn’t bother even trying for a BG, not because it was too much trouble but just because there were other things I wanted to do (Lunar New Year Festival stuff, for example).

People have their own opinions, but the idea that “APs will hate BGs” is just not true for everyone. I think it’s a good system under the circumstances.

As someone said above, at the end of the day it is 1 ride. Otherwise, the park is basically the same as it was in the weeks before RotR opened, and I was happy then. My world doesn’t revolve around only RotR and I think there have to be others who feel the same way.

Agree with everything you said, especially the bold part. I'm an AP as well but with working 6 days a week and church on Sundays I'm never able to be at the park at rope drop unless I take time off work. I usually go every Saturday night arriving at the parks around 6 or 7. Obviously that means I have no shot at riding RotR and I'm fine with that. My next time off work is in March and I'm fine waiting to ride RotR. With everyone sating how awesome it is it gives me something to look forward to. In the meantime I'll continue enjoying the DLR as I always have, even without experiencing the big new E-Ticket.

As to the OP's original statement, I do feel bad for those guests who may not make it back to Disneyland for a long time, if ever. There just really isn't any better way Disney could do this unfortunately.

 

[MommyLove]

I get what you are saying, truly. However as a VERY frequent visitor, this deployment of "plain clothed people wearing Disney badges" (i.e. managers/executive level employees) is notable and like nothing I have seen in the 19 years I have been an AP holder.

People have those types complaints you mentioned literally every day, and it's handled by Guest Relations behind the scenes with nary a fuss. The sheer number of managers present and deployed on Main Street leads me to believe they knew going in it would be a mess, and they had those people ready to handle the fall out.

It's not a good look.

There are numerous rides in the park that command long waits every day, and people VOLUNTARILY get in those lines knowing full well how long it will be, and that the ride can go down at any moment (RSR and Indiana Jones are good examples of this, as those rides go down at LEAST once every day, sometimes multiple times.) Park goers know to expect that. It's part of the whole theme park experience. It's an outcome that is understood. This system is a break from what people are accustomed to. Disney is asking people to effectively change their habits for just this ONE ride and that is very difficult for people to do, as anyone who has tried to break an entrenched behavior can attest to. Generally, people resist change like this.

How is having more people at the ready to be an ear for people to vent their frustrations a "bad look"?

I'm in the camp that understands that there are going to be many disappointed people each day who won't get to ride it, and that the BG situation is the best option for handling it. Demand exceeds supply and there is nothing to be done to please everyone until that ratio changes.

Very interested to see how fast BGs run out once this holiday weekend is over. I'm waiting for when boarding groups aren't gone within minutes. Assuming it will be a weekday, possibly this week or next? I'm hopeful anyway. When that happens my husband and I will go (using the first day of the so Cal tickets) to experience it. We can't wait! Definitely don't want to waste one of our 3 visits on a day we couldn't experience RotR.

 

[roctavia]

It also sounds like a lot of the ride break downs are related to guests not following the rules/doing what they are supposed to do... at least from the reports we have gotten in the boarding groups thread from people there talking to CMs.... supposedly one of the shut downs the other day was due to someone dropping a cell phone they weren't supposed to have out and it getting run over by the ride....

Things would go smoother if people paid attention and followed rules....

Less breakdowns would equal more time for people to get through the ride.

 

[SirBill]

At the end of the day, the Hagrid's debacle was a result of unreliability and a ride that wasn't ready to be opened yet. Disney is guilty of the same thing, as evidenced by yesterday's down times, specifically.

How does a bad day evidence that compared to multiple days where it worked fairly well, and at WDW has improved reliability since launch?

Indeed, when my wife and I were there this last Friday ROTR was far more reliable than Pirates, which we eventually had to give up trying to ride. How long has Pirates been around again? Reliability is just always going to be a thing for any attraction with moving parts.

Disney's mistake was announcing a hard opening date and sticking with it WITHOUT doing a period of soft opening, to actually put the ride through its paces. I don't understand why Disney stopped this practice (ride soft openings). It is a very beneficial way to see how the rides work with typical park guests. They should have run limited, unannounced operating hours for a few weeks.

Boarding groups are the ultimate in soft openings, since they can adjust boarding groups given out to the amount of traffic they think the ride can handle - and the most number of people get to ride. Also it was way more fun to have an actual "launch" day for a ride that was truly a launch for the public, rather than trickling out rides over time until an official opening. And if they had done some kind of soft opening what would have happened to the several hours of crowds just hanging right by ride on the off chance it opened that day?

 

[Etonduf]

The only difference between the current BG system and and advance reservation system, is all of the sad people who could not get reservations would be tucked out of sight at home, instead of being where Disney could any least try to cheer them up. Also advanced reservations would greatly open the system to being hacked so that some people would always get boarding groups.

If anything the current system is better because at least only people who make the effort to get into Disneyland/DHS before opening are able to try. With everyone on Earth able to try remotely? No thanks!

The only system that is actually FAIR mind you, is where people who get in line early are the first one to get a boarding group. I've gone to ROTR under both systems now, and the first come first serve system was by the far the one that was most fair and produced fewer unhappy people. You could know on the way if you had a shot, or by looking at lines to get in. Now it's just everyone who can cram into the park by 8am and then a battle royale of phone technology skills to determine the winner.

Now mind you, I'm not sure at this point if the more actually fair system is better. I think what Disney is doing now, is probably the best compromise (but then being good with phones I can rationalize that since I"ve always managed to get a boarding pass so far).



They could do that without changing the current system. I think you are severely underestimating demand though, I doubt that would help much.

I hope you don't mind me quoting you here from the other thread--I wanted to move my thoughts to this thread.

I think "The only system that is actually FAIR" gets at the heart of this. There simply is not an objective definition of what's fair in a case like this. You think that system is "actually fair" but not everyone agrees. There are many people who think the first-come, first-serve system is not fair since they can't show up early to get in line, or can't stand in a line all day, or whatever. And plenty of people think BGs aren't fair because they don't want to be at the mercy of their cell phone connectivity. And others think a pure lottery is unfair because it's purely random with no chance to get an advantage by doing something that makes you more worthy that the other people who just wandered in and entered the drawing. Still others may think the "actually fair" system would be an open auction where the people willing to pay the most get the boarding groups.

My point: your perception that "first come, first serve" is "actually FAIR" is not a belief held by everyone. And that's why we keep going around and around on these ideas--they all have their pros and cons, their supporters and detractors.

 

[pokee99]

Yeah, this is the thing I think some people forget when proposing alternate systems to “give people a chance” for various reasons or situations. But at the end of the day the same number of people are going to leave disappointed no matter how you slice it.

True, but I think alternatives presented by the OP foster a more FAIR approach, and the disappointed people will likely be people that have already ridden or people that sat on their a$$ and only have themselves to blame.

Currently, the morning boarding group success relies very heavily on morning crowd management (line cutters are likely the lethal SW fans!), what time the turnstiles open, how new/fast your phone is, and if you're tech savvy enough to follow the instructions to access the app and luck out with a BG within ONE MINUTE of opening time. This is crazy unfair!

This is seriously the most insane ticket situation I've ever encountered since my days of camping out overnight for concert tickets! Only this time, the only thing standing in my way is TECHNOLOGY, not my mom saying no to camping out overnight!

 

[Skyegirl1999]

I hope you don't mind me quoting you here from the other thread--I wanted to move my thoughts to this thread.

I think "The only system that is actually FAIR" gets at the heart of this. There simply is not an objective definition of what's fair in a case like this. You think that system is "actually fair" but not everyone agrees. There are many people who think the first-come, first-serve system is not fair since they can't show up early to get in line, or can't stand in a line all day, or whatever. And plenty of people think BGs aren't fair because they don't want to be at the mercy of their cell phone connectivity. And others think a pure lottery is unfair because it's purely random with no chance to get an advantage by doing something that makes you more worthy that the other people who just wandered in and entered the drawing. Still others may think the "actually fair" system would be an open auction where the people willing to pay the most get the boarding groups.

My point: your perception that "first come, first serve" is "actually FAIR" is not a belief held by everyone. And that's why we keep going around and around on these ideas--they all have their pros and cons, their supporters and detractors.

Eh. I think “first come, first served” IS a pretty objectively “fair” standard. As a society, that’s a pretty agreed-upon “fair” way to operate things when possible.

The issue is that at DL, it’s impractical. It’s logistically not going to happen. They’re not equipped to deal with people showing up in the wee hours of the morning each day.

 

[Etonduf]

Eh. I think “first come, first served” IS a pretty objectively “fair” standard. As a society, that’s a pretty agreed-upon “fair” way to operate things when possible.

The issue is that at DL, it’s impractical. It’s logistically not going to happen. They’re not equipped to deal with people showing up in the wee hours of the morning each day.

This is largely a devil's advocate argument for me because I don't personally see first come-first serve as unfair, but it's clear from discussion in the other thread that there are people who do. And do do you really think everyone accepts that as more fair than a pure lottery? I think there are many people who think random chance is more fair.

I'm content with the BG process as is and think it's certainly "fair enough." It seems to be a compromise between first-come and chance, whether or not that's not what Disney had intended with it.

As you mention, my concerns about straight standby lines are more about the public safety/civility and logistical impact on the rest of the guests. I woudn't complain about it being unfair, but apparently others would.

 

[pokee99]

So, are these guests who bought a 3 day ticket also only allowed 1 BG every 14 or 21 days also? As an example, I will be coming down next weekend on my AP. I will be there 2 days. On your plan, I would only be allowed to get 1 ride over those 2 days. My next visit is likely not til April. To be honest, I will likely only ride once anyway. Many people who have APs and live outside the area only make 2-3 trips a year. Limiting them to only 1 ride a trip doesn't seem fair either.

No system is going to be fair to everyone. But I think DIsney;s system is about as fair as it can get.

Disagree.

Riding once within a specific period of time is faaaar more fair than not riding at all. And by restricting one ride within a timeframe, you open the door for those that have not ridden at all.

Think of all the people that visit from out of country that don't have a data plan, old phones, perhaps are older or disabled and not tech savvy.

It's also a VERY stressful process - especially for first timers or people that have a bigger learning curve with technology. Even if successful, the stress from the time of advance planning and preparation, and the entry process during the day of is INSANE - and quite frankly, unnecessary.

To me, the solution here seems to be limiting rides to ONE and having an alternate allocation for those that would have a hard time with the tech version.

IMO, the current solution is the equivalent of forcing MaxPass on everyone (free of course), and ditching the paper system. The tech savvy people would love that, snd everyone else would hate it.