ROFR Discussion Thread

[airjay75]

I think it can also affect what you're willing to offer on a contract that doesn't fully fit your needs. If you have to piece together several different contracts to get what you're looking for, that extra $500/contract adds up. A few offers I made in the last week, I thought to myself, well I could justify going for this smaller one if they'll come down more on the price, whether that's the price/point, the CAF, or the current year dues because this isn't the ideal number of points I'm looking for right now.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

It doesn’t on a ppp basis on a larger contract, but it can add significant cost on small contracts. I walked away from a number of contracts because the all-in ppp was too high to make sense to me.

Right, but again you’ve been around quite a while. Newer buyers won’t think like that.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Right, but again you’ve been around quite a while. Newer buyers won’t think like that.

Respectfully, you may not think like that…. and I understand that. But some new buyers may look at the total cost closing costs of $1200 on a small contract in addition to the buy in & dues and compare that to renting or a staying in a moderate and decide to not buy at all.

There are a lot of small contracts on the market that would have been snapped up last year.

 

[Cfabar1]

And for many that initial small contract is the appetizer or the taster into a DVC journey. I know for us it was.

 

[bookbabe626]

I know in my recent purchase I factored that $500 into what I was willing to pay. It was a 100pt contract, so I calculated that I’d need to pay at least $5pp less than I’d usually offer.

I think those who have said that the CAF affects (or will affect) pricing on the smaller resale contracts more than the larger ones are dead on.

 

[AstroBlasters]

And for many that initial small contract is the appetizer or the taster into a DVC journey. I know for us it was.

Agreed. Small contracts and renting.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Wow….. the seller is giving it away for free practically….

@Chili327 At that price… It is going to get interesting for all the 2042’s.


Especially with seller paying closing, CAF, and half of the 2026 dues….

 

[AstroBlasters]

Wife loves Grand Flo…. Wants to be able to stay 3 nights instead of 2 nights…. as simple as that….IF it passes ROFR…. a big IF….

@Chili327 Nice!!

So what’s the usual trip plan for you guys?
2 (now 3) at VGF, and 3-5 at BWV?

I’m starting to wish I had bought CCV for my SAP+ (instead of BLT). I’m not a fan of the points for themepark view & lake view is pretty much available at BLT. I would be fine with just AKV, BWV & CCV… live and learn… and modify.



That sounds about right. We like to have an “overlap” day where we technically have 2 rooms for a night so we always have a room to go back to if the family gets hot or tired.

We have found that if night one is after a 6 hour flight (10 hours travel time from home to resort) across a 3 hour time difference then we really need a few days to get our bearings. Not having that 11am checkout in the middle of your trip bearing down on you is pretty nice.

With that said… I think we are going to try and do 2 days at Universal on our next trip and our Epic day may be a crossover day where we don’t have to splurge on an overlap room.

All TBD…. let’s see how much flights are….

 

[juliebee]

@Cfabar1 do you mind if I talk about your Vero contract? I think it's a good deal for SAP... no idea if you plan to use them that way or if you plan to use at Vero. But I was wondering if the calculator wizards think it's a good deal for SAP? I'm not great at the math for that but spending $2861 for 75 points with full points for 2025 and beyond would be very appealing in my eyes. But I've heard others say they wouldn't take a free Vero contract, so I'm

 

[VGCgroupie]

@Cfabar1 do you mind if I talk about your Vero contract? I think it's a good deal for SAP... no idea if you plan to use them that way or if you plan to use at Vero. But I was wondering if the calculator wizards think it's a good deal for SAP? I'm not great at the math for that but spending $2861 for 75 points with full points for 2025 and beyond would be very appealing in my eyes. But I've heard others say they wouldn't take a free Vero contract, so I'm

My opinion is that it is not good for long term SAP. It can be great if you need points for a couple years and then you sell it.

 

[airjay75]

@Cfabar1 do you mind if I talk about your Vero contract? I think it's a good deal for SAP... no idea if you plan to use them that way or if you plan to use at Vero. But I was wondering if the calculator wizards think it's a good deal for SAP? I'm not great at the math for that but spending $2861 for 75 points with full points for 2025 and beyond would be very appealing in my eyes. But I've heard others say they wouldn't take a free Vero contract, so I'm

The dues kill basically all non-subsidized VB points as SAP. Even if you get them for free, you still have to pay $14.89/point every year for the life of the contract. You could finance the difference in cost for buying SSR over VB at a 15% interest rate over 10 years and still come out ahead with SSR.

But, as @VGCgroupie pointed out, as effectively short term OTUPs where you plan to sell them in a year or two? Basically a strip and flip but where you use (not rent) the points and then sell. Pro move.

The other use for VB points would be for the beach cottages, but that’s the opposite of SAP.

 

[Cfabar1]

@Cfabar1 do you mind if I talk about your Vero contract? I think it's a good deal for SAP... no idea if you plan to use them that way or if you plan to use at Vero. But I was wondering if the calculator wizards think it's a good deal for SAP? I'm not great at the math for that but spending $2861 for 75 points with full points for 2025 and beyond would be very appealing in my eyes. But I've heard others say they wouldn't take a free Vero contract, so I'm

absolutely! you can talk about it however you'd like...

I'm not exactly sure how I will use the points yet - but we added a trip earlier this year, and then decided we wanted to move up to 2 bedrooms... so we are really short on points... We typically do a VB trip each year, so they might get used there, or I might use them elsewhere... I don't want to rent points or transfer points, so this contract was very compelling because if I want to, I can bank and borrow it and have 225 points available for next UY...

the fact that the contract was fully loaded and the seller removed most of the friction costs associated with the transaction (CAF, Closing, etc.) made the points very attractive and figured they will give me flexibility...

I imagined the seller would counter when I made the offer, but they didn't. That also surprised me. My initial offer was accepted without negotiation.

I figured the price I paid gives me some flexibility too, and if/when the time is right, I could sell the contract - and even if it is at a loss, it won't be a very big one...

The counter argument is... the dues at VB are so high... at what point does a really cheap contract not even make financial sense at Vero Beach - when it can't compete with renting is one answer to that question...

put another way - you could argue that this was a "good deal"... but it wasn't good enough for Disney to take it... or for the seller to counter... and I think that is telling...

I agree with @AstroBlasters as we get closer to 2042 it is going to keep getting more and more interesting...

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

Yes, some new buyers may look at the CAF and account for that in their pricing. But if I was a gambling man, I’d bet most wouldn’t. It would just be part of the sale price. Even with smaller contracts. As time goes on, it will become normal.

It would be good to get data on how many people negotiate. The way DVCRM is set up, I bet it’s not many on their end. Yes, there may be more smaller contracts sitting around but seems like there are less resale contracts sitting on the market compared to previous years IIRC.

Don’t have time now but have to look at ppp from the data Fidelity puts out to see if it has dropped for smaller contracts.

 

[airjay75]

Yes, some new buyers may look at the CAF and account for that in their pricing. But if I was a gambling man, I’d bet most wouldn’t. It would just be part of the sale price. Even with smaller contracts. As time goes on, it will become normal.

It would be good to get data on how many people negotiate. The way DVCRM is set up, I bet it’s not many on their end. Yes, there may be more smaller contracts sitting around but seems like there are less resale contracts sitting on the market compared to previous years IIRC.

Don’t have time now but have to look at ppp from the data Fidelity puts out to see if it has dropped for smaller contracts.

I think you've got a fair point. Those of us on these boards and, in particular, those of us on the ROFR threads, are a small (probably very small) segment of the resale market. I think I predicted before that it will affect the way may of us on these boards view smaller contracts - we either won't buy them or only buy them if we get a discount big enough to wipe away the CAF. But, will smaller contracts really lose the premium they fetch on the resale market? Probably not - the market for them is bigger simply because the buy in price is cheaper and more people can afford that. I actually think that is what keeps VB prices as high as they are - people see the cheap buy in and think, wow, look at how many more points I can get?

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

Looking at Fidelity’s numbers.

February 2026 vs January 2026 - there was a decrease in February 2026 for almost all of the resorts.

March 2026 vs February 2026 - there was an increase in March 2026 for almost all of the resorts.

March 2026 vs. March 2025 - there was an increase in March 2026 for all of the resorts besides OKW.

As the year goes on, the data should paint a better picture of the impact of CAF.

 

[Brian Noble]

\begin{ProfessorMode}
The problem with that is that you cannot easily compare e.g. February to March, because the timeshare resale market has an undercurrent of seasonality. Comparing year-over-year is also tricky because (a) inflation has been running a little hot, (b) cash rates typically increase slightly faster than inflation, and (c) there will be stark differences in economic reality and outlook year-over-year given current and recent geopolitical uncertainties.

That doesn't mean the data isn't suggestive---it is. But you can't use it conclusively without a complete understanidng of the broader context, and that's probably too complex to capture accurately.
\end{ProfessorMode}

This is sort of like the evergreen arguments over restrictions and how much they matter. They absolutely matter, but how much do they matter? That's a much harder question. And that's because the resorts themselves are also different, and would likely settle at resale prices different from one another even if restrictions did not exist.

That said, if you believe there is at least some rational component to the market, then the CAF has at least some marginal impact on prices, and that impact is likely to be more significant for smaller contracts. On the other hand, smaller contracts previously carried a per-point price premium and I don't think the CAF wipes that out entirely.

 

[Brian Noble]

There are a lot of small contracts on the market that would have been snapped up last year.

I suspect that's because we've not yet settled on the impact, market-wide. For the most part, sellers of 50pt contracts seem to be ignoring the fact that buyers have to pay an extra $10/pt. I have been poking around with smaller contracts, and there are a bunch of "full asking only" listings that might have made sense last year, but do not this year. At least, not to me.

 

[IsDVCForMe?]

\begin{ProfessorMode}
The problem with that is that you cannot easily compare e.g. February to March, because the timeshare resale market has an undercurrent of seasonality. Comparing year-over-year is also tricky because (a) inflation has been running a little hot, (b) cash rates typically increase slightly faster than inflation, and (c) there will be stark differences in economic reality and outlook year-over-year given current and recent geopolitical uncertainties.

That doesn't mean the data isn't suggestive---it is. But you can't use it conclusively without a complete understanidng of the broader context, and that's probably too complex to capture accurately.
\end{ProfessorMode}

This is sort of like the evergreen arguments over restrictions and how much they matter. They absolutely matter, but how much do they matter? That's a much harder question. And that's because the resorts themselves are also different, and would likely settle at resale prices different from one another even if restrictions did not exist.

That said, if you believe there is at least some rational component to the market, then the CAF has at least some marginal impact on prices, and that impact is likely to be more significant for smaller contracts. On the other hand, smaller contracts previously carried a per-point price premium and I don't think the CAF wipes that out entirely.

Absolutely! Data provides information but it doesn’t tell the whole story.

 

[airjay75]

ROFR discussion question. If Disney exercises ROFR on a contract that has banked or borrowed points, can Disney unbank or unborrow those points? We know they can change the UY (although they could not or did not always do that in the past). Not sure if we know the answer to this question.

I'm just thinking about how this plays into ROFR decisions because when Disney sells direct points, by law, current UY points have to be given to the purchaser. So, I wonder if contracts with no current UY points or with points that have been banked into a future year are inherently less attractive in ROFR if they are points Disney plans to re-sell as direct rather quickly.

I realize we may not know the answer to this question.

 

[AstroBlasters]

ROFR discussion question. If Disney exercises ROFR on a contract that has banked or borrowed points, can Disney unbank or unborrow those points? We know they can change the UY (although they could not or did not always do that in the past). Not sure if we know the answer to this question.

I'm just thinking about how this plays into ROFR decisions because when Disney sells direct points, by law, current UY points have to be given to the purchaser. So, I wonder if contracts with no current UY points or with points that have been banked into a future year are inherently less attractive in ROFR if they are points Disney plans to re-sell as direct rather quickly.

I realize we may not know the answer to this question.

They have “unborrowed” points for me before in a special circumstance.

I see no reason why they wouldn’t/couldn’t for themselves.