Resale Vent

[Disfamoffour]

We have had our hearts broken twice this week. On Sunday we submitted an offer for 100 points extended at Old Key West. We gave the seller everything they wanted. On Tuesday we got an email saying the seller accepted and we would be getting contracts later in the day. Upon reading the contract the expiration date was 2042 not 2057. I emailed our agent and he looked into it. On Thursday we were told the seller's ageny submitted the offer to the wrong seller. The correct seller was tracked down and Friday the correct seller accepted our offer. I read the contracts, signed them, emailed them back to our agent and ran to the post office and mailed out our $1,000 deposit at 9pm last night. This morning at 10am I received an email from our agent saying that even though our offer was accepted the deal has fallen through. It seems the seller banked his 2009 points and has used them for a Disney Cruise in 2011. He was under the impression that since the contract said 0 points for 2009 that the points were his to keep. When my agent informed him that the points belonged to the contract and not the individual owner he replied that he changed his mind and the contract is not for sale. The kicker is that the seller has six contracts with DVC and has been a member since 1994. How can someone this experienced not understand what he's doing? I just checked and this contract is still listed for sale on his agent's website. I won't name names but there is one DVC resale company that I will have nothing to do with nor would I recommend them.

 

[cvjw]

Hopefully a much better contract will come along soon and you will be glad that you waited!

 

[DiznyDi]

So sorry this has happened to you! Pixie dust that the 'perfect' contract comes around for you!

 

[Girlie1]

I agree with the PP. In situations like this I try to tell myself they happen for a reason. I had a similair situation with a BCV contract last year and the next week an even better contract was listed for a cheaper price. Keep looking and don't give up.

 

[walkdmc]

I'm new to DVC but I also wouldn't think that if I am selling a contract listed as having zero 2009 points that I'd have to sell 2009 points. It doesn't make sense to me so I'd not be frustrated with the seller.

As PP stated, something similar/better will come your way. We're going through our second resale ROFR now. We originally bought 160 points and are adding on now. The wait is annoying but well worth it from a $$ standpoint.

Lots of luck!

 

[JimMIA]

I'm not sure who is the worse culprit here -- the broker or the seller. Certainly the seller should have known that if the sale went through, his cruise reservations would have been canceled. (They also owe the broker the full commission, which they also should know.)

But the one that bothers me more is the broker. This is hypothetically what they do for a living! First they didn't do due diligence on their listing, then sent the offer to the wrong client, and finally had the deal fall through entirely? That's way beyond sloppy.

Personally, I would go to MyFlorida.com - the official Florida State website - look up the Department of Business and Professional Regulation and file a complaint with the Timeshare Division. Anyone that incompetent shouldn't be selling real estate.

I'm not sure it would be improper to post the broker/agent's information here. You might check with the mods, because it would be good info for both prospective buyers and sellers to have.

(You don't have PM privileges yet, so hopefully a mod will read your thread and post whether or not such info would violate the posting guidelines.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I can understand your frustrations OP. I also had a problem with a resale this spring. Made an offer and it was accepted. When I received the agreement the points were a different UY than what was listed on the website and what the broker had told me. I cancelled and when the broker relisted they still listed exactly the same as they had previously - incorrectly. It was kind of like - "oh well, it's the same number of points so what's the problem?" Instead I a made an offer on a different contract which was accepted and was listed correctly. Overall I'm happy with what I ended up with but I do not put out recommendations for that particular broker.

 

[disneynutz]

We have a contract that we are about to sell. I contacted MS yesterday to find out if that contract was used for any pending reservations. I was told by MS that they assume that since they show 2010 points available, it was OK to sell the contract. I requested to be transfered to a manager and after being put on hold for awhile, the Adviser came back on the line and repeated that it was clear to sell.

I called back and talked to Member Administration who told me that they didn't know for sure and that I should call a Manager at MS. I called MS and requested a manager again and finally was transfered.

I was told that I have a pending reservation using 2009 banked points, but since I am selling 2010 points, the reservation would not be canceled.

It sounds to me that no one knows what's going on.

Bill

 

[Dean]

We have a contract that we are about to sell. I contacted MS yesterday to find out if that contract was used for any pending reservations. I was told by MS that they assume that since they show 2010 points available, it was OK to sell the contract. I requested to be transfered to a manager and after being put on hold for awhile, the Adviser came back on the line and repeated that it was clear to sell.

I called back and talked to Member Administration who told me that they didn't know for sure and that I should call a Manager at MS. I called MS and requested a manager again and finally was transfered.

I was told that I have a pending reservation using 2009 banked points, but since I am selling 2010 points, the reservation would not be canceled.

It sounds to me that no one knows what's going on.

Bill

My understanding is that every reservation using a point within that contract will be cancelled, here is a quote from the resale letter that DVC sent out a couple of years ago.

Please be aware that all use of your ownership interest must be complete prior to the closing of your sale. Any pending reservations will be cancelled if they occur after the sale of your ownership interest. Likewise, the buyer of your interest may not make a reservation prior to closing and you may not make reservations on behalf of the buyer for use after the closing date.

I think you're playing with fire if there are any pending reservations not completed prior to closing, no matter what years points they use.

We have had our hearts broken twice this week. On Sunday we submitted an offer for 100 points extended at Old Key West. We gave the seller everything they wanted. On Tuesday we got an email saying the seller accepted and we would be getting contracts later in the day. Upon reading the contract the expiration date was 2042 not 2057. I emailed our agent and he looked into it. On Thursday we were told the seller's ageny submitted the offer to the wrong seller. The correct seller was tracked down and Friday the correct seller accepted our offer. I read the contracts, signed them, emailed them back to our agent and ran to the post office and mailed out our $1,000 deposit at 9pm last night. This morning at 10am I received an email from our agent saying that even though our offer was accepted the deal has fallen through. It seems the seller banked his 2009 points and has used them for a Disney Cruise in 2011. He was under the impression that since the contract said 0 points for 2009 that the points were his to keep. When my agent informed him that the points belonged to the contract and not the individual owner he replied that he changed his mind and the contract is not for sale. The kicker is that the seller has six contracts with DVC and has been a member since 1994. How can someone this experienced not understand what he's doing? I just checked and this contract is still listed for sale on his agent's website. I won't name names but there is one DVC resale company that I will have nothing to do with nor would I recommend them.

I would not expect most owners to know about the cancelation rules as they are not published and are a relatively new issue. One could take the stance that the broker should have discussed this on listing. Something else will come along, please let us know when it does.

 

[wdrl]

The kicker is that the seller has six contracts with DVC and has been a member since 1994. How can someone this experienced not understand what he's doing?

I was told that I have a pending reservation using 2009 banked points, but since I am selling 2010 points, the reservation would not be canceled.

It sounds to me that no one knows what's going on.

It doesn't surprise me that a long time DVC member would not understand the rules about pending reservations and selling contracts. As disneynutz's experience shows, the member could have gotten some confusing or erroneous information from Member Services. Or maybe the member only knows enough about the DVC so he can make reservations and pay his MFs every year, and everything else is just little details that he never has had to deal with. Some Members only know as much as they feel they need to know.

To the Original Poster: Good luck on finding a contract to your liking! And that it really is what it is advertised to be.

 

[anna08]

Sorry for your disappointment but your post is a good reminder to all to read their contracts carefully when they come - imagine if you hadn't caught the mistake! Even the ones direct from Disney can have mistakes. We had a contract revoked by a seller with no reason given and it was frustrating. I wasn't impressed with our agency and since have bought direct through DVD.

 

[DenLo]

My understanding is that every reservation using a point within that contract will be cancelled, here is a quote from the resale letter that DVC sent out a couple of years ago. I think you're playing with fire if there are any pending reservations not completed prior to closing, no matter what years points they use.

I would not expect most owners to know about the cancelation rules as they are not published and are a relatively new issue. One could take the stance that the broker should have discussed this on listing. Something else will come along, please let us know when it does.

I was surprised to hear this policy is not in writing, I would think that should be changed. However, when I think about it, the policy makes sense. If you sell your DVC contract you are no longer an owner on that contract and do not have the right to make reservations using that contract's points and any reservations already made for future dates would be invalid.

 

[javamom]

It sucks that a Member can call DVC and get bad info. But I know for a fact that all reservations on the contract have to be null and void, and here is how. We bought through resale ourselves. When we finally got our membership cards and stuff. They had our names on them, but the "member's since" info was for the original contract date. Which tells me that they just change the names linked to the contract. So, you couldn't have two sets of member's utilizing the same contract.

As a side note, when the economy tanked last year and we were facing lay-offs we briefly listed (then decided a couple of months later against it and canceled) our contract w/ a resale company. I do remember reading through all of the provided materials for the sale contract, and it clearly stated that all reservations against the contract must be canceled, and no reservations could be made against the contract in the interim.

 

[Chuck S]

We have a contract that we are about to sell. I contacted MS yesterday to find out if that contract was used for any pending reservations. I was told by MS that they assume that since they show 2010 points available, it was OK to sell the contract. I requested to be transfered to a manager and after being put on hold for awhile, the Adviser came back on the line and repeated that it was clear to sell.

I called back and talked to Member Administration who told me that they didn't know for sure and that I should call a Manager at MS. I called MS and requested a manager again and finally was transfered.

I was told that I have a pending reservation using 2009 banked points, but since I am selling 2010 points, the reservation would not be canceled.

It sounds to me that no one knows what's going on.

Bill

While it sounds like MS CMs are not particularly familiar with the sales process, it is pretty easy to tell from the Member Website if there are any reservations against a particular contract using banked points.

For instance, I have a contact of 230 points, and 3 adds of 40, 40 and 35 points respectively, for a total of 345 points.

I have banked all of my remaining 86 2010 points, and have 2011 use year trip of 112 points reserved so far.

For 2011, the website shows for my membership contracts:

xxxx.000

Annual Allotment 230
Points Remaining 230
Points used 1

Meaning that my 2011 allotment is 230 points, I still have 230 2011 points, and they used 1 banked point used toward the 2011 use year reservation.

xxxx.001

Annual Allotment 40
Points Remaining 40
Points used 40

I have a 40 point contract, with 40 2011 points available, and 40 banked points used for a reservation in the 2011 use year.

xxxx.002

Annual Allotment 40
Points Remaining 40
Points used 40

I have a 40 point contract, 40 2011 points available, with 40 banked points used toward the reservation.

xxxx.003

Annual Allotment 35
Points Remaining 9
Points Used 31

I have a 35 point contract, 9 2011 points available, 26 2011 points used for this reservation, and 5 banked points used toward the reservation.

 

[Dean]

I was surprised to hear this policy is not in writing, I would think that should be changed. However, when I think about it, the policy makes sense. If you sell your DVC contract you are no longer an owner on that contract and do not have the right to make reservations using that contract's points and any reservations already made for future dates would be invalid.

It wasn't always this way, there was a time when you could sell and keep a reservations, use an exchange, make a reservation for the buyer, etc. I'm guessing they had a major problem with one or more buyers being upset that points were used late in the game that they thought they would have access to. I think it is in writing internally, just not published in the POS.

 

[JimMIA]

Or maybe the member only knows enough about the DVC so he can make reservations and pay his MFs every year, and everything else is just little details that he never has had to deal with. Some Members only know as much as they feel they need to know.

Very good point, and that probably describes a large majority of DVC owners. How many threads do we read that start out, "OK, I've been a member for X years, but I've never run into this before..." ? As a matter of fact, I think I've started some of those threads myself!

But the real estate broker should have known better. They sell timeshares for a living, and it's their job to know the "little details!"

 

[Dean]

But the real estate broker should have known better. They sell timeshares for a living, and it's their job to know the "little details!"

Depending on how long the contract had been listed, the member could have made reservations after the listing was made.

 

[Sandisw]

Very good point, and that probably describes a large majority of DVC owners. How many threads do we read that start out, "OK, I've been a member for X years, but I've never run into this before..." ? As a matter of fact, I think I've started some of those threads myself!

But the real estate broker should have known better. They sell timeshares for a living, and it's their job to know the "little details!"

I agree. When I listed my contract last year, I had told them that we had X amount of points coming during the next UY. I had forgotten that 8 of those points were banked since I bought the contract like that only 2 months earlier.

Anyway, within a few days, the broker called me and said that we needed to change things to reflect that the points were banked points and not current UY points since he had gotten the statement from Disney listing it that way. In addition, when I listed, it was explained to me about the reservations, especially since I had one using points. We just listed it as one that couldn't close until 4 months later.

So, a good agent, IMO, helps the seller understand how it works, especially if they have never sold a contract before.

 

[Goofy DVC]

For me these boards have done a great job educating me as to all the details of DVC. I'm amazed at how much I didn't know before I started lurking in 2007. So some who look to sell might not know the details. I guess it is crucial to have a good agent.

 

[extremesoccermom]

I for one am sorry to hear about your contracts and hope your heart heals soon..
I am also having the same problem but I feel that all things happen for a reason. I am looking on the bright side. I found a perfect 30 point contract at SSR which had "58 points available, 28 banked that expire 11/30/10". DD15 and I like to do mother/daughter trips every 2-3 years so this sounded perfect and we needed to add another day to our Oct trip so if things went as planned we should have had time to get our extra day. But after talking to some folks here I realized the 30 points for this year needed to be banked by the end of July. I figured that was pushing it so I called to ask the sellers to bank the extra 17 points we would not be using.
Um there is a problem the sellers did not understand the banking rules and it is really this years points that were banked and expire 11/30/11. That made me rethink everything . I decided that since the points were not what I wanted I would instead make a new offer for an appropriate amount with the striped points. It has been 1 1/2 weeks since I have heard anything. (I called the broker at one week to see what was going on and she told me they were still thinking about it.)
In the mean time I have decided that DD and I really LOVE AKV so I might be better adding on 100 points there (and take another cruise with the incentive) or buying a 100 point resale (more likely after a little more research) so we can do mother/daughter trips to our favorite resort every year!
I have plenty of time now to research and watch all they contracts to find the one I want.
Good Luck in your endeavor