Resale Questions

[TrudyZ]

Okay, I am counting on all of you that I have been reading your advice for months (Pam, Dean, Doc, Rich, and many others) to set me straight; it's time for me to show my ignorance and ask a question on resales, as we are debating resale versus Disney:

Am I missing something?? I mean I know that the resales don't go for the asking price; but from what I gather recently, they aren't that far off.
I understand that if you want OKW or BWVs it is the only game in town, but the prices seem out of whack?

For instance, (not to pick on one--just a typical listing; and there many others) 250 points for $16,750. Now, there are currently 68 points available and 250 will be available on 8/01.

Now, won't with direct from Disney (for $18,000 at $72pp) I get 250, 2000 points and then 250, 2001 points--assuming I buy soon enough to get a use year that gives me 2000 points? So, with that listing, I am 182 points in the hole--using the dreaded $10 pp MB (or, oh how I hate to say it but nominal rental value) the listings "comparable price" would be $18,750??

Plus, there is the closing cost issue that is included with Disney. My guess is another $500 for points like this, bringing the "comparable price" to $19,070 versus $18,000 from Disney.

And, well, if you have to finance (we won't be, but I know it is a factor), that may be another thing to make resale more expensive.

I know, I know, I should have taken up accounting instead of engineering--but what am I doing wrong here? I did a similar calc for several of the listings and am hard pressed to see a signifigant savings (there are a few with borrowed points where it is even worse). I am sure there are some out there that are more reasonable than Disney--but I assumed they all would be.

And Rich, I have heeded your warning; if I want to stay at WDW, buy at WDW. I am using WLVs as a comparison. Going in late April/ early May to check them all out and see if we like WLVs versus OKW versus BW (didn't mean to get you guys started on this--I have read all the threads!!!)

Perhaps people are offering (and accepting) much less per point than asking??

Thanks!!
Trudy

 

[Richyams]

That sounds like the deal we were just discussing. All of us have given our take on that deal already.

That particular deal is not a good one. There are better ones out there.

This is the thread

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs", Karl Marx,This has failed every time it has been tried, why do we still have liberals?

 

[gscott8075]

MB changes as of April 1 from $10 to $5 on half of your points.

250 points from Disney:

250 @ $72 = 18,000
MB 125 @$10 = -1,250
Total 16,750/250 = $67 pp

You would have 125 points now and receive another 250 when your use year started (fall?)

You also have to pay a pro-rated share of maintenance fees. So, if you buy now, you will have to pay approximately 3.70 pp x 250 = $925 x(8 months / 12 months) = $610.

So, your true cost buying from Disney is $17,360.

If you bought a similar resale, you would pick from OKW or BWV.

Let's say you found one very close... 250 points with an August year and 125 point available now.

For this example, use $64 pp.....

250 x $64 = 16000
Closing = 525
Total 16525 66 pp

You've saved $250 over Disney...whoopee

But wait, there's more! Go after the maintenance fees. Don't reimburse the seller for 2001. That saves you $600 more for a total savings from DVC of $850.

Many will argue that you should pay a lot less per point. Fact is, it is a sellers market right now. And, resale prices will probably increase again with the change in the MB program on April 1.

Also , keep in mind that OKW's maintenance costs are historically the lowest of the five resorts. On 250 points, it is almost $200 lower per year than WLV.

Good luck! Don't let the agents - as nice as many are - push you into something that is not for you.

 

[TrudyZ]

Rich:

Thanks for the quick response and the link. Actually, it is not the same resale (but several listed there are very similar). I think that thread prompted my question. I want to make it clear that I am not putting in an offer on any of these, I guess I just wonder if I am thinking the right way??

I even checked out the "other" Dvc resale website. They have 3 listings in the same point range.

The first two are for 250 for $16,500 with 116 points left from 2000 and all for 2001. Taking Disneys $18000 for the same points and subtracting $1340 (134 pts. at $10 pp) you are at $16600 and that includes closing (another $500 with resale).

The third is for 230 for $14,950. There are no points for 2000 and only 162 for 2001. Disney would be $16,560 minus the value of the missing 2000 points ($2300) minus the value of the missing 2001 points ($680). We are again under, with the "adjusted comparable Disney price" of $13,580. Throw in closing costs-and the resale is way off the mark.

It seems that the only ones that are more reasonable are the high point contracts; and I guessing that is becuase they are harder to sell.

I just wondered if I am doing something wrong here, because I sure am not seeing the savings in the resale market--not just for that one listing--but for many? Not used to doing these types of analysis, I usually just stick to the engineering and leave the beancounters do the rest--so set me straight!

Thanks again!

 

[ttsui01]

When all is calculated, the only resale worth buying right now is OKW points. Not to discredit the other DVC resorts, but the maintenance fees are just too high to be flexible for overall usage. Remember you'll be paying this fee for 40+ years!

And it doesn't hurt to try bidding for a resale at $61 or $62/point. You can't do that with Disney.

OKW 8/00, OKW DVC 2/01, OKW 5/01

 

[RobDoc]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> MB changes as of April 1 from $10 to $5 on half of your points. [/quote]

For the record....MB will change on April 1, but will be $5 per point for up to all of your 1st years points ($2000 maximum). It will still be $10 (for all 1st year points) at VB. At VWL and HH, the total $$ will not change, but you will have to sell back all (instead of 1/2) 1st year points to take advantage of the full deal.

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

 

[Dean]

I'm not sure I have much to add as the info posted so far seems pretty thorough. but since I was mentioned by name, I guess I should at least repond.

DVC direct purchase for 250 points is of course $18000. I will ignore maint fees as they should be the same if the points are the same. They are a good bargaining chip with resales though since the seller has usually paid them already.

Resale, 250 points at $64 pp is around $16000 plus closing of around $475 which raiser it to $16475 or about $1500 less than DVC on that many points. If you could actually get a Dec 2000 use year from Disney, you'd have 182 more points which you could value at $10 pp or $1820 which is more than the savings. You could buy less points from DVC and come out about the same.

To me the bottom line is that it is a combination of the number of points and the total cost that makes or breaks the deal. If you have your heart set on one resort, buy there if you can. If you just want a DVC WDW resort, buy the best deal FOR YOU.

Other factors include the maint fees, how many points you want and financing options (you said you didn't need it). For smaller packages, it is usually best to buy from DVC. Choice of use year is a small benefit as well. While I know that most resales go well and come off without a hitch, there are more risks with resale. I think the total and absolute savings needs to be $1000 or more to make it worthwhile if cost is the major factor.

When looking at a resale, take the number of points and point availability and decide how that resale fits in. In this example, I'd say that $60 pp with buyer paying closing and no maint fee due to seller would be about the Max I'd consider if I were set on buying.

Dean

 

[AnnK]

Buy where you want to stay, That is the best advice that is given on these boards.Don't let the "dues" play such a large factor in your decision. BWV is difficult to get, even for those that own there. I would definately "check" out the resorts so that you can decide which is best for you. BE PATIENT, the market is always changing, keep looking for what you want and what you want to pay. I recently had the opportunity for 150 points at OKW the owner was willing to accept 8,000.00 , but decided I would wait for BWV
points, I have found the 11 month window there to be a great advantage in planning my vacation. Just look at the waitlists mentioned here, all are for the BWV's.
Good Luck

 

[kem330]

Trudy, I don't think you missed a thing, It is exactly how I figured value when we purchased our resale. Some people don't care if it's the same price as Disney, they just really want the specific property and figure they would pay it if it was still available from DVD. I think sellers have been motivated by the hot market and are coming in with inflated expectations. I would never buy a resale that didn't come with the same amount of points as a new purchase unless it was appropriately discounted. If you want OKW or BW, get on a list with the Timeshare Store and A Timeshare Broker and be patient, I think you will find a deal. We came on in Jan. when properties were listed for $68/point for BWV. By Feb we had a deal for $62/pt + closing and all 2000 and 2001 points. I only mention this so much because I think you all need to know what people are really paying and not just the asking price.

 

[cookiemonster]

Interesting point. I think bw is different though. Properties are selling within 10 minutes of when they are called in. Prices are in the 65- 68 point range whether they come with 2000 points or not. You have to be the first or second call or you will never see the points. Most listings on the internet are either for a significant amount of points or the indivual has borrowed against 2001 points. At least for now, bw is totally a sellers market.

 

[TrudyZ]

I want to thank everyone for their quick and insightful responses!

I hadn't got on a resale company's list yet. I was afraid it was a little too early because we won't know where we are going to buy (or be willing to commit to a resale) until we see the DVC locations first hand at the end of April/early May. I figured the resale companies probably didn't want to deal with us until we were "serious" buyers.

Just trying to absorb all the info I can and methodically trudge through the numbers and facts to be an informed buyer. You guys have really helped! I'm working on calculating the number of points we may need versus the various times of year we may go versus the accomodation size, etc.,etc.! Really giving the old HP a workout tonight--darn near the point of a spreadsheet!

But, at least by doing all this now, after we experience the "magic", we can get right down to business!

Thanks again--and any further opinions are always welcome!

 

[RobDoc]

Trudy...You are realy doing your homework with this consideration and it brings up a point for all of here on this board.

For several years, it was no-brainer for us to recommend looking at a resale- since they were easily selling well below the DVC price and most DID come with banked points. The owners were willing to sell since many had purchased at when their costs were in the $50-58 range.
With BWV sales (and HH and VB) the original costs for most were above $60 and they are now trying to get their $$$ back- plus pay the broker fees.

Instead of automatically suggesting resale, we now need to really look at the package- and include closing costs, banked points, borrowed points and maintenance fees as part of that consideration.....just as you are doing.

Thanks for reminding us here, that the market has changed and we must change with our homework assignment too!

Doc
doc@wdwinfo.com

 

[kem330]

Trudy- Have a great time visiting WDW and DVC. You are very wise to collect all the info you can before you purchase. That's why these boards are so useful- the information provided is extremely helpful in making an informed purchase. As for resales - it is tight, but that doesn't mean you won't find some value out there- it all depends on where you prefer to stay.

 

[Dean]

TrudyZ, I agree you're doing the right things here. I'd still contact the three main resales groups and tell them where you stand. I bet they'll be very willing to put you on a list. One potential buyer is better than none at all. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Dean

 

[TrudyZ]

Thanks again. For a minute there I thought I was losing it (or too anal)---you know, another classic case of an engineer thinking something to death!! The tradespeople I work with (and they are great folks) love to remind me that "they put trains on tracks so the engineers won't lose them". I was afraid that I had given them more fodder for discussion!!

We are pretty practical folks (for God's sake we are both engineers). I think I am willing to pay what is reasonable; but I don't think I would be willing to pay more than the equivalent of Disney for a resale. I still think (like Dean said) that since there is some risk, and I think not as simple as Disney, unless there was some decent tangible savings with a resale, Disney is looking better every day.

I have thought about private sales (as I would think both the seller and buyer could save), as I see a few in the various classifieds, but I am not sure how to go about this. And I think the risk factor goes way up. Anyone had any experience with this?

The reviews of WLV seem to be pretty good so far. And, although the maintenance fee is higher than OKW, it isn't as high as BWV. Just from my brief rental experience (which may be too limited to draw a conclusion but I will try anyway) I was able to get into OKW each time; and not (or very limited) at the others. I think that except for really hig demand times, OKW will be easier to "trade" into at the 7 month window.

Well, thanks again. You guys out there don't know how much I have gained off of these boards over the last several months. I don't usually post, but I read them all!!

 

[GCM13]

Trudy, I just wanted to add that before we purchased a few weeks ago, we were thinking exactly what you are about the value of the resales. All of them had borrowed points and we figured we were better off going with Disney and paying slightly more to get more points to begin with. Also, we felt more safe and comfortable dealing directly with Disney. If you do get on a resalers list, you will probably get calls right away. After we purchased, there was one that was pretty attractive with a lot of points. We're still happy with our decision to go through Disney. Where our home resort is wasn't the main deciding factor. To us, we know we'd be happy with VWL if we are unable to get BW at 7 months out. Good luck with your decision. That is great that you can go and visit all the resorts and make an informed decision. Have fun!

 

[TrudyZ]

Dean, or anyone else who knows: I know about the one at the top of this board and A timeshares, Inc., what is the third?

I think I will give them a call on Monday and get on their lists as you suggest!

Anyone with experience on private sales? I have seen some in the classifieds at Tug, etc. If I found one that looked interesting, I wouldn't know what to do! How risky, and what's the procedure if anyone knows?

Thanks!

 

[Happy Birthday Cat]

Try this link:

http://www.reid4florida.com/Disney.htm

They have some listed. I did not purchase from them and can not say whether they are good or not.

Good luck.

 

[Raising Disney Princesses]

There is another consideration with an OKW resale that I don't think anyone has mentioned. We love all of the Disney vacation resorts and without doing much research--we were wowed at the guide presentation---we signed to buy a contract at VWL.
A few days later we realized there was a resale market and rescinded our VWL contract to investigate further. We ended up getting an 350 OKW package for $62 per point plus 1/2 of the closing cost. The clincher for us was the point requirements to get a home at OKW was so much less than that of VWL! So we were buying a property that cost less, had the lowest annual dues and took the fewest points per stay--To get as many nights stay out of our VWL resort we would have had to buy almost 400 points (and pay a higher maintenance cost on all of those points each year)!

Just something else to consider!