Request Future Resort Locations? San Diego?

[joihan777]

Hi, first time poster here.
We recently became DVC owners and am rather appalled by the lack of availability through the RCI system in California. We saw ONE day available throughout the remainder of this year... NOT good!

Is there a way to request Disney to consider new resort locations like Vero Beach & Hilton Head?

I think the San Diego area would be a very attractive destination for many on the west coast. Besides Disney resort features, San Diego has many other attractions to check out. It'd be an awesome 'home base'.

Hawaii seems nice, but airline ticket prices do not!

Any thoughts?

 

[tjkraz]

The consensus seems to be that Aulani (Hawaii) will be a barometer for future off-site developments. Getting members to stay at a new location is secondary to actually marketing the ownership. Before Disney would build a 300 room timeshare in San Diego, they need to know that there is a market for people to buy there.

You might like the idea of staying in San Diego but, to be blunt, would you paid $120 per point to OWN there? Can you find about 10,000 other people who would?

Disney is so synonymous with the theme parks that they are facing an uphill battle trying to convince people to buy their off-site product rather than a more diverse timeshare system like Marriott, Wyndham or Bluegreen.

Since you're a newer owner, it may help to know that Vero and Hilton Head were the 2nd and 3rd resorts to be constructed (after Old Key West.) This was back in 1995/96. Management was working under the assumption that they could slap the "Disney" name on anything and buyers would materialize.

While Vero and HHI are cherished resorts to many, they were a failure in terms of their overall sales levels. The Vero resort was actually intended to be twice as big as it is, but slow sales prompted Disney to sell off a neighboring plot of land.

Over the next 15 years, DVC was linked to projects in Times Square, Colorado and a location about 45 minutes from Disneyland in CA (exact location escapes me), among others. None of them happened, obviously.

Disney purchased land outside of Washington DC a couple years ago and has yet to move forward with any project. If they do develop the site, it seems a given that DVC villas will be included. That's your current best bet for another non-park DVC resort.

At any given time there are a half-dozen rumors involving sites at Walt Disney World and there has been talk of a 4th tower being built at DL's Disneyland Hotel which would house some DVC units. Those locations, plus DC, are the most likely projects over the next decade.

But as for non-Park locations, it all goes back to Aulani. Keep your fingers crossed for brisk sales. The Japan earthquakes certainly did not help any. If Disney cannot sell a non-park resort in Hawaii, I can't see them taking many risks elsewhere. Land is expensive (as compared to the parks where they already own land.) Building is expensive. Marketing costs are expensive. They won't haphazardly dive into projects unless they make financial sense, and a large part of that is selling all of the points in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[joihan777]

^ Makes a lot of sense. I just hope Disney realizes expensive airfare is a determining factor, not just the idea of an off-park resort. To drive to San Diego from most of the western US is a 1-2 day affair with many fun things to do on the way. A minivan full of kids is a WHOLE lot cheaper than 5-6 airfares to Hawaii.

I would think a "Cars/ Route 66" oriented resort would be utterly fantastic, especially given that California Adventure will have a new "Cars" land opening soon. San Diego has some nice beaches as well as other attractions. I can easily imagine a fantastic "Cars" oriented resort!

I didn't realize the non-park resorts required purchases as well. While Hawaii itself may be a "destination" to mainlanders, I don't see Vero, Hilton Head, or San Diego for that matter, to be as attractive. If Hawaii & Theme Parks were "A" destinations, others would fall into the "B" category.

Hopefully, they'll be able to find something for us west coasters!

PS- I just checked Hawaiian Airlines website. $650 RT PER PERSON is the cheapest they offer without hotel subsidies. For a family of 5 thats $3,250.00.... OUCH!

 

[taaren]

Interesting thought. I'm still hoping for another Disneyland resort, and I do think there is potential in West Coast resorts but they would have to be places that are high-tourist-traffic. The other place we own is at a ski resort, and we'd buy if Disney did a resort at Tahoe (perhaps even Big Bear?) but sports isn't really very 'mouse'-ey. Supposedly they almost built at Newport Beach what ended up being a Marriott.
I'd also do an add-on if they built in New York - hadn't realized they looked at Times square, a small one for every 3rd year, but it makes sense that they wouldn't want to do many non-park locations. Kinda curious if DCL expanding out might be a part of the Disney line as a whole looking at expanding to new locations, if it might make them more likely to think about off-site down the road. Definitely parks first though - Disneyland Paris DVC would sell very well with the European Disney lovers, VGC sold out so quickly another DLR resort would almost certainly do well.

 

[nunzia]

Interesting thought. I'm still hoping for another Disneyland resort, and I do think there is potential in West Coast resorts but they would have to be places that are high-tourist-traffic. The other place we own is at a ski resort, and we'd buy if Disney did a resort at Tahoe (perhaps even Big Bear?) but sports isn't really very 'mouse'-ey. Supposedly they almost built at Newport Beach what ended up being a Marriott.
I'd also do an add-on if they built in New York - hadn't realized they looked at Times square, a small one for every 3rd year, but it makes sense that they wouldn't want to do many non-park locations. Kinda curious if DCL expanding out might be a part of the Disney line as a whole looking at expanding to new locations, if it might make them more likely to think about off-site down the road. Definitely parks first though - Disneyland Paris DVC would sell very well with the European Disney lovers, VGC sold out so quickly another DLR resort would almost certainly do well.

I remember Lake Tahoe had been on some survey thing awhile ago. That would be a good one IMO..great locale, summer and winter activities, gaming, wonderful day trips..(of course I grew up in Reno so that's home turf) And if they want to do a Route 66 thing, perhaps in original Route 66 country..say..New Mexico ( whose state slogan should really be: Where Nothing Happens..no earthquakes, tornados, hurricanes, etc )

 

[tjkraz]

^ Makes a lot of sense. I just hope Disney realizes expensive airfare is a determining factor, not just the idea of an off-park resort. To drive to San Diego from most of the western US is a 1-2 day affair with many fun things to do on the way. A minivan full of kids is a WHOLE lot cheaper than 5-6 airfares to Hawaii.

Same can be said for dozens of large cities around the US, though. IMO, San Diego is too close to Anaheim to even be considered. By building there, Disney would effectively be encouraging people to frequent competing themed attraction operators (San Diego Zoo, Legoland, etc.)

I would think a "Cars/ Route 66" oriented resort would be utterly fantastic, especially given that California Adventure will have a new "Cars" land opening soon. San Diego has some nice beaches as well as other attractions. I can easily imagine a fantastic "Cars" oriented resort!

Yeah, but would you want to stay there in 40 years? Don't think you'll ever see regional hotels/DVCs go toward that sort of theming. It's hard enough to convince someone to spend $20k on a timeshare to begin with. Disney wouldn't run the risk of losing business due to limited appeal of its hotel designs.

They will go with traditional stylings that have mass appeal.

PS- I just checked Hawaiian Airlines website. $650 RT PER PERSON is the cheapest they offer without hotel subsidies. For a family of 5 thats $3,250.00.... OUCH!

Even still, Hawaii attracts over 7 million tourists per year. How many locations in the US can compare with those numbers?

The other place we own is at a ski resort, and we'd buy if Disney did a resort at Tahoe...

Yeah, Tahoe was on a survey Disney did a couple years ago, along with Vegas and the Caribbean.

Never been there myself but based upon some research, it sounds like an ideal location--swimming in the summer, skiing in the winter. Great year-round appeal.

Supposedly they almost built at Newport Beach what ended up being a Marriott.

Yup, that's the one I couldn't think of. Disney actually owned the land in Newport Beach and sold it to Marriott.

Kinda curious if DCL expanding out might be a part of the Disney line as a whole looking at expanding to new locations, if it might make them more likely to think about off-site down the road.

The big advantage the DCL has is it's mobile. They can change up the ports and itineraries every few months if they wish. Just look at some of the new destinations already announced--New York, Alaska, Hawaii, Texas.

Overall the DVC program could certainly benefit from more diverse locations. Right now they are losing sales to families who may only want to visit the parks every-other-year. Offering native destinations like Hawaii, DC, Tahoe and so on can only help. But the destinations have to be appealing enough to sell.

It's just impossible to overstate the importance of Aulani. We could spend all day nit picking decisions Disney made with the HHI and Vero resorts. But Hawaii is such a popular vacation destination that if DVC can't make it "work" there, it will be very hard to justify building a resort in DC or elsewhere.

 

[gabriellyn]

The consensus seems to be that Aulani (Hawaii) will be a barometer for future off-site developments. Getting members to stay at a new location is secondary to actually marketing the ownership. Before Disney would build a 300 room timeshare in San Diego, they need to know that there is a market for people to buy there.

You might like the idea of staying in San Diego but, to be blunt, would you paid $120 per point to OWN there? Can you find about 10,000 other people who would?

Disney is so synonymous with the theme parks that they are facing an uphill battle trying to convince people to buy their off-site product rather than a more diverse timeshare system like Marriott, Wyndham or Bluegreen.

Since you're a newer owner, it may help to know that Vero and Hilton Head were the 2nd and 3rd resorts to be constructed (after Old Key West.) This was back in 1995/96. Management was working under the assumption that they could slap the "Disney" name on anything and buyers would materialize.

While Vero and HHI are cherished resorts to many, they were a failure in terms of their overall sales levels. The Vero resort was actually intended to be twice as big as it is, but slow sales prompted Disney to sell off a neighboring plot of land.

Over the next 15 years, DVC was linked to projects in Times Square, Colorado and a location about 45 minutes from Disneyland in CA (exact location escapes me), among others. None of them happened, obviously.

Disney purchased land outside of Washington DC a couple years ago and has yet to move forward with any project. If they do develop the site, it seems a given that DVC villas will be included. That's your current best bet for another non-park DVC resort.

At any given time there are a half-dozen rumors involving sites at Walt Disney World and there has been talk of a 4th tower being built at DL's Disneyland Hotel which would house some DVC units. Those locations, plus DC, are the most likely projects over the next decade.

But as for non-Park locations, it all goes back to Aulani. Keep your fingers crossed for brisk sales. The Japan earthquakes certainly did not help any. If Disney cannot sell a non-park resort in Hawaii, I can't see them taking many risks elsewhere. Land is expensive (as compared to the parks where they already own land.) Building is expensive. Marketing costs are expensive. They won't haphazardly dive into projects unless they make financial sense, and a large part of that is selling all of the points in a reasonable timeframe.

Nice analysis!

 

[WilsonFlyer]

You know, I just have to funadmentally disagree with a conclusion that seems to be coming to fruition here, somehow. If Aulani is indeed DVD's gauge of future off-site build viability based on sales, DVD is going to get exactly what they deserve, IMHO.

I just can't believe that the Disney marketeers are dumb enough to believe, effectively, "If it won't work in HI, it won't work anywhere."

It takes a special kind of owner to buy at Aulani. No offense to anyone that has purchased there but the typical owner at Aulani has to be borderline elite from a financial standpoint, if the intention is to vacation there every year, or every other year for the next 50 years. It cost a lot to just travel to HI, especially from the right coast and with a family, and then there are the expenses associated with living on the island for a week or more. Not typical living and dining expenses, at least not for me.

Maybe DVD really is trying to distinguish DVC as an elitists organization, but I doubt it. From what I can see, DVC's appeal is middle to upper middle income working America. Most owners (based on my limited exposure on the boards and at the resorts) seem to be small business owners or management in companies, for the most part. I understand there is diversity beyond this scope, but my point is that this is typically a class that would vacation to HI 2-3 times in a lifetime, at most; certainly not every year. Most of this class can and do, however; tend to vacation somewhere at least once a year and Disney seems to be the common thread that DVD has spun with its web.

Personally, I could care less about off-site DVCs. I wish they would concentrate on Orlando and Anaheim, as far as I'm concerned. If they want to expand, expand in the parks in Tokyo and Paris first.

I guess the great take-away from all this for me is that if you think HH and VB were clusters as far as trying to sell off-site properties, wait until we all see the end result of sales at Aulani, especially in this economy. This will be the cluster of all clusters, IMO. I guess time will tell the tale.

 

[tjkraz]

I just can't believe that the Disney marketeers are dumb enough to believe, effectively, "If it won't work in HI, it won't work anywhere."

It takes a special kind of owner to buy at Aulani. No offense to anyone that has purchased there but the typical owner at Aulani has to be borderline elite from a financial standpoint, if the intention is to vacation there every year, or every other year for the next 50 years. It cost a lot to just travel to HI, especially from the right coast and with a family, and then there are the expenses associated with living on the island for a week or more. Not typical living and dining expenses, at least not for me.

You are showing your east coast bias. (Don't be offended--I have one too.)

Aulani is about growing the program. About a year ago DVC disclosed that approximately 85% of their membership lived east of the Mississippi. The danger with putting a resort in a location like Washington DC is that owners would adopt a stance of "eh, I'll just use my current points to stay there."

Hawaii has proven to be the single most popular trading destination for members through II and RCI. It's an extremely popular getaway location for west coast residents and many foreign markets. That's where the growth potential exists.

Personally, I could care less about off-site DVCs. I wish they would concentrate on Orlando and Anaheim, as far as I'm concerned. If they want to expand, expand in the parks in Tokyo and Paris first.

Many would agree but after tapping that market for 20 years, it's beginning to run dry. There simply isn't an endless supply of people who want to visit the Disney parks year-after-year-after-year for five decades. Check back in another 10 years and let us know if your outlook has changed.

Many couples are find themselves in the position of wanting to alternate between theme park and non-park locations. Disney has a tough time selling them on DVC with only Vero and HHI as the non-park resorts. Hawaii helps greatly, as would the likes of DC, Tahoe and Vegas if they can justify going down that road.

The parks will always be the bread and butter of DVC, but non-park resorts are important to not only attracting new members but to KEEPING many families after their kids have grown and empty-nesters grow tired of visiting the parks year-after-year.

I guess the great take-away from all this for me is that if you think HH and VB were clusters as far as trying to sell off-site properties, wait until we all see the end result of sales at Aulani, especially in this economy. This will be the cluster of all clusters, IMO. I guess time will tell the tale.

There are already thousands of timeshare rooms in Hawaii so on the surface, I don't see any reason to think that demand is non-existent...even in "this economy." Most common criticisms I've read have been over the choice of location and, of course, price. But offsetting those issues are the wonderful design of the resort and (to fans) the "Disney" name.

The most important indicator (IMO) will simply be how sales progress in comparison to Disney's internal estimates. Bay Lake Tower has taken almost 3 years to sell 300 villas. Took about 18 months to sell 50 rooms at the Grand Cal. The 500 at Aulani are not going to disappear overnight. Disney knows that. The problem comes if whatever projections they've made (say, 5-6 years) prove to be grossly inaccurate (10+ years.)

 

[dianeschlicht]

Aulani would have a lot of intrigue for those of us in the midwest IF it was on a different island. Hawaii is a destination of choice for many Minnesotans, and many buy timeshares there, but Oahu is not the destination of choice when it comes down to it. If I'm going to spend 10 hours getting somewhere, I am particular about the location.

East coast bias....I agree. We see it a lot on these boards anyway because so many of you are from the East coast.

I do think the OP was specifically asking about RCI trades available in California though...not DVC resorts.

 

[mjc2003]

One factor that will undoubtedly have an impact on Aulani is the decline in the Japanese tourism market. Much has been made about the earthquake and subsequent tsunami affecting the near-term tourism market in Hawaii, vis a vis the Japanese traveler, but the reality is that this is a market that had already taken a large hit in recent years. I don't know when DVD decided to move on Aulani, but I'm sure it's been several years in the making. I'm also sure that they hoped to lure Japanese buyers. 10 years ago, the Japanese comprised nearly 30% of the Hawaii tourism market (more so in terms of revenue). That number has fallen mostly due to the Japanese economy taking a hit in recent years, and is down to just under 20%. Because the Japanese tourist spends appreciably more per person than an American, this is a coveted demographic.

The disaster in Japan will only add to these numbers. There are projections that call for another 50-75% cut in Japanese tourism to Hawaii over the next 24 months. So, from 10 years ago when 2.2 million of the 7 million visitors to Hawaii were Japanese we were down to about 1.3 million Japanese BEFORE the earthquake. That number could drop to 3-500,000. And again, from a tourism/retail/hospitality perspective, losing 1 Japanese visitor is like losing 1.5 Americans.

I don't know what DVD projected as their desired potential sales to the Japanese market, but it ain't going to happen. Also, while tourism to Hawaii has not really been adversely affected overall since the disaster in Japan, this is b/c Hotels are offering steep discounts to Americans to make up for the loss of Japanese visitors. But this won't last; and again, these visitors don't spend the way the Japanese do, so the affects on the local economy will be vast. Also, with the seemingly daily cost of flying increasing, the American tourist is going to start shying away from good hotel deals if they are off set by absurd flying costs.

I would be shocked if Aulani sells well. If this is the barometer for future projects, I fear they bit off more than the market can chew.

 

[taaren]

Here's an interesting article from Hawaii Business Magazine on why timeshares are so successful here: http://www.hawaiibusiness.com/Hawai...eshare-in-Hawaii-Build-it-and-They-Will-Come/ .
Hawaii timeshares do sell for more than most others (if you compare to the Westin Brand or Marriott here, getting points for a week at a 2-bedroom at Aulani is actually a steal by comparison!). People were afraid at the end of the 80's during that recession that the Japanese tourists would not come back, but they always seem to anyways. I don't think Aulani will do badly, but only time will tell.
Good to know that Tahoe is at least on the DVD radar!

 

[littlestar]

To the original poster - what is sitting on RCi is usually the leftovers. You need to put in a request when it comes to trades with RCI (preferably 2 years in advance).

I did a search on RCI (with a non DVC resort) and I'm seeing availability in San Diego at Gaslamp Plaza Suites, Worldmark San Diego, and Wyndham Harbour Lights. I think if you put in a request with RCI, you'll get something in San Diego.

As far as Hawaii goes, to me the main draw will be for west coast vacationers. I've been to Hawaii five times (and no I'm not wealthy, but I'm an avid shopper of a good deal) and we've always talked to plenty of west coast people that vacation to Hawaii every year. It's like Florida is to the midwest or east coast. Of course, the Japanese market for Hawaii is huge. Although I have to say I've always personally seen more Japanese on Oahu (especially in Waikiki) than the other islands. Our last trip to Waikiki in January, we ran into people from all over Europe. When we rented our car, the rep told us we were his first English speaking family of the day.

I don't know if DVC will expand their stable of DVC resorts - to me they could probably enter into an agreement with some of the other points systems like they already do with Club Intrawest.

 

[JimMIA]

Hi, first time poster here.
We recently became DVC owners and am rather appalled by the lack of availability through the RCI system in California. We saw ONE day available throughout the remainder of this year... NOT good!

First of all, welcome to the DIS!

Second, NO timehare system works as well exchanging out as it does within that system, and DVC is no exception. And actually, DVC's exchange possibilities through RCI are very limited -- only 600 resorts of the more than 6,500 resorts in the RCI system. And obviously, only a small percentage of those 600 are going to be available at any given time. You can find some good exchanges, but you'll have to learn the system and really work it.

Also, most exchanges out of any timeshare system require a considerable amount of prior planning. You're just looking at the next 8 months; generally, you have to plan further in advance than that.

 

[JimMIA]

Even still, Hawaii attracts over 7 million tourists per year. How many locations in the US can compare with those numbers?

"Florida attracts close to 20 million;"

ETA: Boy did I miss that number!

I can't find any current data, but back in 2006-2007, the actual number was more than EIGHTY MILLION per year.

I guess I was thinking of our population, which is about 17 million!

 

[taaren]

"Florida attracts close to 20 million;"

ETA: Boy did I miss that number!

I can't find any current data, but back in 2006-2007, the actual number was more than EIGHTY MILLION per year.

I guess I was thinking of our population, which is about 17 million!

I haven't checked our visitor counts lately, but I do know that at any given time, the ratio of visitors to residents on Maui is roughly even: about 1/2 million residents to 1/2 million visitors. During busy seasons (summer, holidays, spring break) we are outnumbered by a ratio of between 3:1 to 5:1, and it shows since on my commute I'm constantly surrounded by rental cars.
Oahu isn't as bad since about 1/3 of the population (of about a million) is military. But they do get a lot more of the Asian market whereas North/South Americans seem to prefer the outer islands and Europeans love all the islands. Its strange living in a place where most of the people you talk to have no vested interest in the islands' continued health, social/economic/cultural or environmental.

 

[tjkraz]

"Florida attracts close to 20 million;"

ETA: Boy did I miss that number!

I can't find any current data, but back in 2006-2007, the actual number was more than EIGHTY MILLION per year.

I guess I was thinking of our population, which is about 17 million!

OK...congrats, I guess. Florida is a much larger state and is obviously more accessible than Hawai'i. Also has those appealing theme parks which could easily account for 2/3 of the tourism.

Getting back to Aulani, Disney could fill the resort year-round by attracting about 150,000 timeshare owners and cash guests. Given the worldwide appeal of the Disney parks, films, characters, etc., it's impossible to gauge the impact on Disney's specific product.

If a company puts out the right product, it's not uncommon for that product to belie industry-wide trends. Two years ago the US economy was in a tail spin but Apple was selling iPods and iPhones (and later iPads) like gangbusters.

The Japan situation will undoubtedly impact Aulani. Hard for any of us to tell how far-reaching that impact may be, though. Will sales suffer for 6 months? A year? 2+ years?

Before the earthquakes I was told (off the record) that Aulani sales coming out of Tokyo were "stellar." If that's an accurate representation, we just have know way of knowing how pre-quake and post-quake sales relate to early projections, nor do we know how long the recovery process will take.

Elsewhere, fuel prices go up and they go down. Airline rates go up and they go down.

Whether Hawaii tourism is 7 million per year, 6.5 mil, 6 mil...whatever the case may be, Disney only needs to capture a fraction of a percent to make Aulani successful. Stay tuned.

 

[joihan777]

Fascinating insight and I thank you all for your thoughts. I still believe a 'quiet', non-park resort in southern California would be welcome for folks not wanting to always go to the parks. I think a themed resort could serve as an 'off-park year' vacation. Disney would get the room sales and much of the dining/ services. But the San Diego beaches, Zoo & Safari are just too nice to pass up. A Tahoe site would be nice but travel there is rather restricted. I'm an avid driver but I cringe when I make the right turn down Hwy 50 into the basin... the STEEP dropoff would make Nemo, Marlin & Dory pass out!

I'll be considering the RCI trades further out for next year. For us this is still a new experience. Thanks again!

PS-Any ideas on cheap airfare to Hawaii would be welcome!

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

A Tahoe site would be nice but travel there is rather restricted. I'm an avid driver but I cringe when I make the right turn down Hwy 50 into the basin... the STEEP dropoff would make Nemo, Marlin & Dory pass out!

That's why you want to stay on the road! When my sister comes to visit nobody want her in the car b/c of all the sharp intakes of air.

I must say though that Tahoe travel is not at all restricted IMO. San Diego is the one and only place that a plane I was on had to abort the landing b/c it hadn't come in just perfectly for the petite landing strip. Just different things at different places.

 

[joihan777]

That's why you want to stay on the road! When my sister comes to visit nobody want her in the car b/c of all the sharp intakes of air.

I must say though that Tahoe travel is not at all restricted IMO. San Diego is the one and only place that a plane I was on had to abort the landing b/c it hadn't come in just perfectly for the petite landing strip. Just different things at different places.

Coming from the Nevada or Truckee side WOULD be a little easier! I'm in the Sacramento area though. Hwy 50 is the most common route (and usually packed on Fridays & Sundays).

The thing about San Diego is, there are several freeways there. A family doing two weeks in southern California could spend 3-4 days in San Diego and the rest in Anaheim. I still think a "Cars" or Route 66/ Road Trip themed resort could be a huge hit. Something similar to the Aulani but more accessible by car, meaning the resort can have multitudes of child activities like a river pool, bicycle trails around the property etc.

A San Diego resort can even be tied into the Cruise Ship experiences!