Rental Rates/Concerns

[Dean]

Originally posted by Montana Disney Fan
I didn't read every single post but I was told by our DVC salesperson (Judy) that only 5% of DVC properties are rented out by Central Reservations.

Which seems a reasonable percentage and likely 20 to 100 times the number of private rentals.

 

[Dumbo]

It is not uncommon for a DVC member to make reservations at their home resort at the 11 month window with no intention of staying there. They can take this room out of inventory for 10 months. At the 7 month window they try to reserve the DVC resort they want to stay in. Sometimes they do get the reservation at 7 months only tying up the original reservation for 4 months. Sometimes they keep calling MS to get their desired resort for another 6 months. This can tie up the original reservation for 10 months. And even sometimes if they can't get their desired resort they cancel the original reservation at 31 days out.

Dumbo

 

[chainkid]

Frankly if someone buys DVC points its their points to do what they wish with them. They paid for them and are paying the dues. No other DVC member should have the right to restrict their usage and doesn't. So if Rich doesn't think its fair well its his problem. I sometimes rent and sell points based on my needs and I don't care if my legal usage of points offends certain people who think that their way is the only way. I will hold as many rooms as I need and let them go if the reservations isn't needed. So if you are worried about availability then buy more points at the resort you want to stay at. It is perfectly legal for you to hold a reservation at your home resort until the 7 month window and then switch to another resort based on availabilty there. So if someone is doing it for a renter I fail to see the difference. Again those who are point rich pay alot of dues to use their points and the flexibility of those points is why we bought in in the first place.

 

[KNWVIKING]

..... to do with as you please. I can only hope that someday you'll have to change your vacation plans because only weekends are availible because one of our follow members only rents the weekdays - which are half the points. It has nothing to do with me buying more points to get what I want. I bought all the points I need to vacation as I desire. See, it's really easy to take a position of "they're mine & I'll do as I please with them" until the shoe is on the other foot & you're the one "hoping" a wait list comes thru so you can continue looking for airline tickets,car rental,etc.

I wonder if people with the "mine so I'll do as I please" mindset are the same way in every other aspect of their life ?

 

[trishy]

Originally posted by anniet
Isn't that the truth- the blame belongs squarely on the person who reserves a Christmas through New Years reservation and blocks another DVC member from a room while gouging a poor unsuspecting renter of $14.50 per point!

Very well said

I sometimes rent and sell points based on my needs and I don't care if my legal usage of points offends certain people who think that their way is the only way.

You're right, unfortunately. This loophole benefits you in your pocketbook. Where it concerns/offends others is when a "member" of the Disney Vacation Club is not able to secure their family vacation (which by the way is why the vast majority bought our memberships in the first place) during one of the peak times because some other "member" is using that week for profit.

 

[RuthnPaul]

Although there are times when circumstances warrant renting points, I DO have a problem with those folks who are doing this as a business venture. As Trish stated so well, it IS a concern when a DVC member has trouble securing accommodations during peak times due to this practice. If members are purchasing resales strictly to rent out, this could create a situation where there are less resales for the rest of us who genuinely want to use our points in the manner intended.

RuthnPaul

 

[Mickmse2002]

Although I haven't read all the posts included in the 15 pages I did see several personal attacks and lots of emotion expressed. I have never rented points and have never rented out points. We use our points for family vacations. All 70,000 members have the same opportunity to book a room using the points they have purchased. Who ultimately owns or uses the points isn't relevant. I have booked a room at the 11 month home resort booking window in order to ensure a room during the period of time we wanted to travel. Then later, at the 7 month window, switched to another resort and cancelled my original booking. Each one of these transactions were perfectly allowable and from my perspective very reasonable. They were also totally dependent upon availability at the time I made the call. All 70,000 members have the SAME opportunity to book. Why should motive matter?

 

[wdwstar]

I think its wrong reserving 2 rooms and only going to use 1 room, when we all plan our trips home its nice to hear your dates and rooms are available, we all dread to hear about going on a waitlist, because you really cant plan beyond that until your waitlist comes thru and even sometimes the waitlists dont come thru. and you end up paying cash at another disney resort. we are all neighbors now, we all own dvc lets be considerate of each other and if we cant i believe what goes around comes around

 

[CarolMN]

Originally posted by Mickmse2002
....(snip)..... Why should motive matter?

And even if it did, who (in their right mind) would want to be in charge of figuring out /judging the motive behind every rental transaction? Talk about a thankless, high stress position!

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by CarolMN
And even if it did, who (in their right mind) would want to be in charge of figuring out /judging the motive behind every rental transaction? Talk about a thankless, high stress position!

Well, I certainly have no interest in trying to determine motives for every rental transaction, I hope my post don't come across that way. The only real rental transaction I have a problem with is purposely reserving high demand weeks without ever intending on personally using them and then renting them out to the highest bidder through an auction transaction. Occasional renting is no problem in my eyes, for whatever reason. But reserving high demant holiday weeks to auction off to the highest bidder is a practice detrimental to DVC members in my opinion. And while I won[t redebate an issue that has been debated ad nasium here by poster in this thread, I also condend that such for profit rental practices fall within the commercial use clause of our DVC agreement, and could be enforced by the Board if they so choose to do.

But hay, otherwise renting here and there is no problem in my opinion. Plans can fall through, and it's nice the option is there to get a member out of a spot and a total loss.

 

[Dean]

I'm not going to rehash old arguements, my feelings and position are well documented. What I find laughable is the idea that availability has a play in the reasonableness of renting. There are many reasons why a room may not be available when one calls. These include one person booking two different size units then cancelling one when they know what they need or don't. It includes the above example of booking home resort then changing over at the 7 month window. And of course the most common reason is that more members want to go a specific time than there are units. The system is people call and book and when it's full, it's full. It's that simple and no one should hold back because another member might want it. If that makes me selfish or self centered, so be it. As someone else said, this is the system for better or worse.

If one has to change their plans and there isn't availability, it won't be because of renting. I rent occasionally and I've never secured high demand times then sought to rent them. It's discussions like this that make me think for a moment about doing it just to show I can. And I can tell you that if the only way to rent and come out whole financially would be to do so, I would. Everyone who owns at a resort have the same opportunity to reserve and only owners at a resort should come into the discussion.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by Dean
...I'm not going to rehash old arguements...

Agreed.

...I've never secured high demand times then sought to rent them...

Excellent... that's the only circumstance I really have an issue with, even then I'd add that it's auctioning approach for the high demand times that raise concern for me.

But I hear ya, we're both pretty strongly on the record on this one, even where we differ. I've rented a few points from others a couple of times to augment a stay, it's nice the option is available.

 

[MELSMICE]

I have not read this whole thread, either, however, as far as renting goes I have to put my 2 cents in!

Our initial stay in a DVC resort was through a rental at OKW. DH was very skeptical about DVC before that, but the day after we returned home he was on the resale boards. Within 1 month we had purchased a resale at OKW. If we hadn't rented points from a DVC owner we probably would not be members right now.

As far as holding 2 rooms for a reservation, right or wrong, people do it. They do it with resort rooms also. Unless there is some type of policy that only one room/unit reservation can be held in one name that's not going to change & personally I don't think it should.

I guess it's like the sayings go, "the early bird gets the worm" & "first come, first serve". Is this right or wrong - I guess CRO thinks it's okay!

 

[ILoveMyDVC]

This thread reminds me of the good ole Prodigy days when I got into a *war* with a poster because she was in a tizzy over DVD dropping the minimum of points purchased. Way back when there was a minimum of 250 points (or something like that) to purchase a membership in DVC. I recall that the member had already purchased the MAXIMUM points allowed per contract (which I think was 3000) and was getting ready to buy another contract in Vero. Well, she was just beside herself that common people would have the option of buying points and not just the wealthy.
10 years later and it's another battle with a different name.


-Happy 10 year owner of 350 original DVC points (and the mortgage is almost paid -yay!)

 

[MELSMICE]

Originally posted by ILoveMyDVC
This thread reminds me of the good ole Prodigy days when I got into a *war* with a poster because she was in a tizzy over DVD dropping the minimum of points purchased. Way back when there was a minimum of 250 points (or something like that) to purchase a membership in DVC. I recall that the member had already purchased the MAXIMUM points allowed per contract (which I think was 3000) and was getting ready to buy another contract in Vero. Well, she was just beside herself that common people would have the option of buying points and not just the wealthy.

Wow - are you serious. I would have loved to read that thread!

 

[WDWDad]

It seems to me, and I have read the entire thread, that most people who object to renting are not trying to restrict in any way what another MEMBER does with his points.

However, when a rental situation exists in which a member is making a profit from his or her points that is where a slightly different set of rules comes into play. If the points are yours, and are being used by you, then do whatever you want with them. Take 185 individual weekdays with them if you wish. I don't have any problem with that. Like you say one of the reasons we all purchased DVC was for the flexibility. But if your are using your points in any manner in which you are earning a return of some sort then I think you should do so in a manner that is the least likely to cause your fellow members the least amount of hardship.

My feelings on this in the past have been put into words in other threads. I do believe that I owe a measure of respect to my fellow members. If you don't, that's OK. Actions speak louder than words. I will set my example as you will choose to set yours. I will do my best to plan our vacations at the 11 month window. I will try not to wonder why I can't make a ressie if I make my reservations later than that.

My only hope for this discussion, and I would like to thank the Moderators for letting it go on, is that it raises a level of awareness for others regarding consideration for your fellow man. I do not wish to have DVD add any more rules other than those which we already have. I do not believe that it would be possible for DVD to try and devine which rentals are for family and friends vs. which are strictly for profit. Our only hope is for a level of consideration among the 81,000 member families to treat each other and our property with respect.

And lastly, can someone tell me why it is wrong to feel as though as a member of DVC that we are part of an exclusive club. It can't be too exclusive or 81,000 families wouldn't be part of it. But, why can't it feel exclusive because we did actually pay to belong. As past polls have shown members come from all races,genders,occupations and income groups. But we all found a way to pay to join what I thought was something which gave us a resource which not everyone could access. By joining DVC and paying the costs we were to have access to a way of vacationing in the WDW that appealed to us. Why is it bad to think that " membership has it's privaleges ". Gee where have I heard that before?

If 20 years from now the rental industry within the DVC family is cashing in then all we bought was a discount card that expires in 2042.

 

[Desperado]

Originally posted by WDWDad
It seems to me, and I have read the entire thread, that most people who object to renting are not trying to restrict in any way what another MEMBER does with his points.

However, when a rental situation exists in which a member is making a profit from his or her points that is where a slightly different set of rules comes into play.....

I think the above does a great job of framing the problem. Well said.

 

[CarolAnnC]

My only hope for this discussion, and I would like to thank the Moderators for letting it go on

Topics can be explored in depth here on the DVC Board as long as everyone sticks to the Posting Guidelines. Thus far, this thread has stayed on track, and I am pleased to see it continue in a respectful, informative manner..

 

[GAIL HAYDEN]

Originally posted by MELSMICE
Wow - are you serious. I would have loved to read that thread!

It was a horrible thread. The min. was 230 points in the beginnig.
That is what I purchased, but, was delighted when they dropped the minimum, that way it opened the door to others to enjoy.

 

[Dean]

I found the old Prodigy board quite tedious. The standard answer form a number on that BBS was "if you don't like it, sell". One of the pluses was Craig Urbine participating. Craig was a VP at II for years until he very recently left the company. He was quite a stand up guy.