Reneging Renters - How to deal with them?

[keys2kingdom]

We went down the wrong path, comparing DVC costs to Value Resorts. Now the DVC resorts are the New Value Resorts!

As long as we keep rental rates low, we will attract those that want to pay Value Resort prices and stay in Deluxe Accomodations. Then when Disney offers free dining, they jump ship and go back to PoP because they were going to stay at PoP anyway before they found out they could stay at BCV for the price of Pop! LOL!

ITA!! Promoting renting on the Budget Board was probably not the thing to do. DVC owners shot themselves in the foot on that one, and I seldom see any members who rent out their points over there correcting misconceptions. I've seen some wild expectations being fostered over there. I don't see the situation changing any time soon. Glad I won't be renting out any of my points.

 

[ericamanda01]

I am still new to DVC but so I have not yet rented out points. But if the times comes and I want to do so, which I believe I will, I will charge accordingly. I think that the time of year should determine the charge. For instance I think that if someone wants to rent a week at Christmas it should cost more than say a week in Sept. Am I alone in thinking this way?

 

[bongo59]

It seems like this is always happening and then you see frequent posts from renters who want to know how they can cancel. The response is always that it is between them and the seller. I don't really have any brilliant ideas about how to stop this from happening, but I'm sorry that it does.

I do.............I make them pay 100% before any ressie is made via paypal...............or i dont deal with them.

 

[SnowWitch]

I just do not rent out my points. Why should I? I paid a small fortune for my contract. Why would I want to rent out a studio for a fraction of what it would bring with a discount through Disney reservations? Then have to deal with situations such as the one you are explaining. I have seen to many posts on the rent board of "anyone want to rent their points for $7.50?" Please go stay at the All-Stars if you want accomodations in that price range.

I hate to sound hateful but it just bugs me to see....I'm stepping of my soap box now.

 

[castleri]

I am still new to DVC but so I have not yet rented out points. But if the times comes and I want to do so, which I believe I will, I will charge accordingly. I think that the time of year should determine the charge. For instance I think that if someone wants to rent a week at Christmas it should cost more than say a week in Sept. Am I alone in thinking this way?

It does cost different amounts for different seasons because the point requirement is higher at different times for the same size accomodations. If you mean that the price per point should also be higher then that is a different matter. My 5 night Christmas reservation is costing almost the same as my 10 night September reservation in points. If it was comparing two five night stays the difference in points would be 95 points more for the Christmas one for a two bedroom at OKW.

 

[Plutofan]

The renters need to understand that once a DVC member makes a reservation for them their points are tainted. If the DVC member has to cancel the reservation and he borrowed the points they can not be returned to their original use year. Also depending on when the reservation is canceled Disney has strict guidleines that may put a lot of restrictions on the points being used again. DVC members should use a contract to make sure the renter understands the terms. The renter needs to understand that the terms of the contract is to protect the DVC member and the renter. Everyone needs to understand that you are dealing with a DVC member not a travel agent and that the DVC member is going through a lot of work to make $1 - $2 per point if even that much.

 

[crisi]

i really dont think some of you "owners" realize how elitest you sound with your, we would like to cater to a "better class of people" talk. does DVC ownership breed snobbery, its like the old visual joke with the two women cutting up a third one who is beside them and she says you know im standing right here dont you? some look at this board because they are intrested in renting or buying in and they read this and feel like a second class citizen. im not being *****y i really felt a little assaulted and insulted even though i am not a perpitrater. i deal with the public on a daily basis on a large scale and ive found some who try to do that cant deal with the human condition and get a more private line of work. so i agree with an earlier poster, if some of you cant take the heat of renting points out dont do it at all cause there will always be someone who offends your senses.

Some of the owners know exactly how elistist they sound. They don't want anyone renting points and if snideness scares some people away, good. Others don't care because they want to scare away anyone wanting $8 points. For most DVC owners, renting points isn't a customer service type business....its an occational thing that isn't very lucrative - so getting jerked around by renters is really inconvienent and they would just like it if it didn't happen. The owners on this board don't tend to edit their conversations in these threads so as not to offend potential renters, they see these boards as a conversation between owners. If you can't take the heat, you may not want to open up any thread where the conversation is owners talking about renting.

 

[chris1gill]

I agree with Johnnie too! We have ourselves to blame.

We went down the wrong path, comparing DVC costs to Value Resorts. Now the DVC resorts are the New Value Resorts!

As long as we keep rental rates low, we will attract those that want to pay Value Resort prices and stay in Deluxe Accomodations. Then when Disney offers free dining, they jump ship and go back to PoP because they were going to stay at PoP anyway before they found out they could stay at BCV for the price of Pop! LOL!

But if you rent to someone that was prepared to pay for Y&BC in the first place or BWI, they understand the value in what rentals have to offer and know they are receiving a fair deal.

Even at $12 per point, my 5 Sun-Thurs night BWV Standard Studio ressie next month would rent for $135 per night!! So I dont see the argument at all to support $10 per point not even for distressed points!

I'm another one that is beginning to agree with Johnnie... Our dues have gone up over the years (obviously), but yet our price for renting has stayed the same... even while the Value resorts have risen in price, our rental prices have stayed the same... I definitely think we're inviting the Value resort crowd to lowball us... Our membership is a lot more valuable than that IMHO...

I think raising the price to be more in line with the deluxe accomodations we are offering, and then requiring payment when the reservation is made might help fix the problem we have... One thing I will say, is that I generally make all of my requirements known before even calling MS & I make sure the renter knows they have to pay quickly or I'll cancel the reservation. I can't believe some members wait two weeks or more for payment? I just don't get that!

 

[browniemtb]

There have been many threads on this subject. Raising prices would help all the owners and the renters would still get a fantastic deal. But as one OP said, she rented at $11 ppt but yet had several offers from other owners for less. Who is at fault there, us, the owners. So basically each owner has to come up with there own policy and price and stick to it even if it means walking away from a renter. I made the mistake of giving my first renter the benefit of the doubt for a timeline to pay....I lost. The second contact with a potential renter was a, "I don't really want to pay that, how about $9 a point." I walked away. The current renter has been great........but I did find a post she made concerning booking BWV over BCV, had she made a mistake. This makes me feel like if she got a bunch of responses saying BWV stinks you should have booked BCV, would she have cancelled my ressie?? Fortunately all the responses were favorable to BWV. As far as owners feeling as they are in an elite crowd.......that OP should shell out $25 grand for points and then write back. The owners here have made huge investments in a timeshare, a luxery item. Owners should expect to be treated fairly and paid fairly.....and on time!
Brownie

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

I have never rented points out and have no immediate intention to ever do so unless I would have points that would expire without use. I am begining to agree with the idea of charging more for rental points. I see no real reason for folks to devalue their membership by charging less than a value resort room for a DVC studio. I'm begining to agree with Johnny!

I agree with Johnnie too! We have ourselves to blame.

We went down the wrong path, comparing DVC costs to Value Resorts. Now the DVC resorts are the New Value Resorts!

I'm another one that is beginning to agree with Johnnie... Our dues have gone up over the years (obviously), but yet our price for renting has stayed the same... even while the Value resorts have risen in price, our rental prices have stayed the same... I definitely think we're inviting the Value resort crowd to lowball us... Our membership is a lot more valuable than that IMHO...

Diane, Liferbabe, chris1gill....Thanks. It is a very rare day here on the DIS when anyone will admit agreeing with me ...and 3 in one thread

If we value our DVC vacations/accomodations the manner we collectively claim on this board, the rental price should reflect that DVC passion...at least in part. Price stagnation for 4-5 years does not reflect that, IMO.

It's more than supply and demand. It's supply, demand and education (concerning the real value of what you are selling)

Rental rates should at least increase with the costs of inflation and ownership. $12-13 for a run-of-the-mill rental is appropriate, and $13-16 for prime reservations is not out of line. The best way to price is to sell a reservation where a direct comparision to Disney rack rate is possible.

Members should change how they post rentals and focus more on a reservation for rent at a certain price, and not price per point. A R&T board post would read: "Reservation for Rent: 5 nights June S-Th OKW studio for $750". Then in the listing indicate: "Other dates possible, rental rate may vary based on unit size and reservation date, please inquire". Point prices should only be used for transfers.

 

[crisi]

It's more than supply and demand. It's supply, demand and education (concerning the real value of what you are selling)

Agreed. But then DVC members should spend more time on the resort board/ family board/ budget board so they can correct the assumptions up front. I was in a DVC thread on one of those boards where people were saying "it would be so cheap" to a woman complaining about having to rent two rooms at a value for her family of five. It was three pages before I noticed it and then only I and one other DVC member popped in after me to say "ummm, no two rooms at a value will still be cheaper."

By the time the get here to post their request or look for points - their expectations have been set.

 

[gblast123]

Wow,

I never in my wildest dreams, imagine that this would be such a hot topic.

I think it shows that as a group, owners are getting a royal screwing by renter!!!

I spoke to a few of you that may be interested in forming an owners group to try and come up with solutions.

This thread is a first start. I am a firm believer in coming up with solutions rather than bit*hing about problems.

Anyone interested in forming an owners group should email me at gblast123@yahoo.com.

You should also download a free program called skype located at www.skype.com . It will enable all the people in the group to have a live chat and/or conference call. Up to 5 people can conference for free (nothing beats free!! ) However, you need to have a microphone and speakers for it to work.

Hopefully, the owners will join together to help clean up renter abuses, have a unified renting system, weed out deadbeats and work together so that both owners/sellers and renters can have the piece of mind to reliably use DVC for everybody's benefit.

I have several suggestions, including a central owners booking service, reneging renters database, unavailable/low available database, and other things which will make renting points and reservations much simpler efficient and, almost foolproof.

Hopefully, all the owner/sellers can band together!!

I am also starting a new thread, which will be a survery of just how many points are reneged upon.

 

[LIFERBABE]

The attitude I have seen on this board, is you have the members that rent and the members that don't that are adamant about their position.

For years, you could not even bring up point rental costs without setting off a huge debate, being called a "business", a profiteer, etc. We were supposed to be noble and give our points away to the disadvantaged and downtrodden. Booking ressies to rent was frowned upon and those that openly practiced were ostrocized.

Fast Forward to 2006. The membership is now starting to realize that whether they rent or not, they don't want their precious DVC points sitting in a bargain bin at the 99cent store next to the Kathy Lee Christmas CD.

Well that's where they are!!

That's not elitist, it's the truth. I know of people with boatloads of money and they will only stay at Motel 6, so it has nothing to do with having the resources. It is more a question of, are you willing to allocate those resources to have deluxe accomodations. Some do, Some don't. We want to rent to the ones that do and appreciate the cost savings.

The market is out there (I don't rent for less than $11), we have just beat each other over the head so much that no one wants to step out there and do what really should have been done a few years back. "I purchased for my personal use" but Im not the Mother Theresa of DVC and if I need to unload some points, I would like to feel just as warm and fuzzy about it as the person that rents from me.

It is possible to rent and have both parties thrilled about the transaction, not just the one that got the killer deal.

DVC is not the only avenue for a budget trip to WDW. We should not be held responsible for providing CHEAP accomodations onsite to the masses. Disney doesnt do it and neither should we.

It's called pride in ownership, not elitism. No one wants their property devalued and degraded.

 

[dalt01]

as someone in sales managment i know one thing for sure that you cannot debate, EVERY transaction requires a willing buyer AND a willing seller. you people who are unhappy with the way things are going totally control this, if you are not offering your merchandise for sale no one can take advantage of you. i am willing to bet the first transaction ever went like this. i am a DVC owner and cant use my points this year. is there anyone out there who would like to rent them from me, its a great bargain at $7 a point, first come first serve!! not the other way around. having said that let me tell something else, as you know from my earlier reply i just bought 254 points at $11 and as a serious traveler i would pay up to $13 and still consider it a bargain but not if there were 20 or 30 people out there for $10 or $11. THAT folks is your dilema.

 

[Tink10]

i really dont think some of you "owners" realize how elitest you sound with your, we would like to cater to a "better class of people" talk. does DVC ownership breed snobbery, its like the old visual joke with the two women cutting up a third one who is beside them and she says you know im standing right here dont you? some look at this board because they are intrested in renting or buying in and they read this and feel like a second class citizen. im not being *****y i really felt a little assaulted and insulted even though i am not a perpitrater. i deal with the public on a daily basis on a large scale and ive found some who try to do that cant deal with the human condition and get a more private line of work. so i agree with an earlier poster, if some of you cant take the heat of renting points out dont do it at all cause there will always be someone who offends your senses.

I certainly don't want to offend anybody, but I'll admit that I do think in an elitist sort of way when it comes to renting my extra points. To us, they are an asset. The first time that I rented, I had many many offers, including those "I can only afford $8.00 per point" people. They really did initially come across as both insulting & annoying. I don't have time to deal with them & they've become a bit of a joke in our family. (Honestly, if you have to squabble over $2.00 a point, should you REALLY be going to WDW??) When first renting, I carefully chose who I would respond to based on how their email came across to me.

We have several rental homes that we own & I learned quite a bit about what a PITA renters can be. That holds equally true with DVC rentals. When I rent the extra points, I only do so to people who I've dealth with before, who I know that I can trust.

Unfortunately, some renters on the DIS think that owners are supposed to be just as flexible & forgiving as Disney itself & that just isn't the case. When we rent our points, we owners take on quite a bit of responsibility. We're the ones who can lose the points if a renter backs out, we're the ones who have to initially cover the costs of any damage that a renter may cause........Renters need to understand this. They should be thankful that they have this option and understand the bargain that they're getting & STOP wanting something more for nothing!!

I was a renter & yes, it was a true bargain, but it was also the reason why we bought DVC.....

I can now totally understand why some owners require payment up front & adhere to no cancellation policies........

 

[DVCDebb]

Have never rented points nor do I plan to. Not wealthy either. Instead I found an outlet for mine by giving to special camp here in South Carolina for children with cancer and their families. The sincere Thanks I get from seeing those children's faces doing something the family could never afford to do has been so rewarding. Money is nice but helping others in need has been my answer to left over points. Don't always have a lot of points but when I do any resort is great for these families. So far have been able to send 6 families to share lasting memories with children that some have now passed on. Just a thought. Understand money is needed sometimes and there is a market. Just think as owners we are selling ourselves out renting to some who don't plan on taking care of the places and we end up repairing damages.

 

[Sammie]

Hopefully, the owners will join together to help clean up renter abuses, have a unified renting system, weed out deadbeats and work together so that both owners/sellers and renters can have the piece of mind to reliably use DVC for everybody's benefit.

But wouldn't a movement such as that be considered commercialism, which is against the contract.

 

[gblast123]

as someone in sales managment i know one thing for sure that you cannot debate, EVERY transaction requires a willing buyer AND a willing seller. you people who are unhappy with the way things are going totally control this, if you are not offering your merchandise for sale no one can take advantage of you. i am willing to bet the first transaction ever went like this. i am a DVC owner and cant use my points this year. is there anyone out there who would like to rent them from me, its a great bargain at $7 a point, first come first serve!! not the other way around. having said that let me tell something else, as you know from my earlier reply i just bought 254 points at $11 and as a serious traveler i would pay up to $13 and still consider it a bargain but not if there were 20 or 30 people out there for $10 or $11. THAT folks is your dilema.

Your writing is a model of clarity and understanding, NOT..

I think that you are saying, with great difficulty, is that owners frequently screw each other. I agree with that. Frequently I will be working with someone who then sees another post of someone with cheaper points and goes to them.

I don't like that but that is the reality of the situation and I am willing to live with a free market enterprise system.

What is offensive to me is the renter that I have spent a lot of time with, who finally, after 2-5 calls to Disney, gets a confirmed reservation.

We have agreed on a price, and they have agreed to pay it. They promise to send the money. I wait, send a reminder email, I wait again, etc.

Finally, they send an email saying that they have changed their mind. To put salt in the wounds, I see that they have other posts after they got my confirmation in their hand, requesting a purchase of points for the exact same reservation.

How, under those circumstances am I an "elitest"? Basically, I am being punished for being a good guy and trusting people.

dalt01, I don't think that you have your head screwed on right!!

From what I can see, owners are being screwed left and right by buyers.

 

[dalt01]

bravo,DVCDEBB

 

[gblast123]

[QUOTE=Sammie]But wouldn't a movement such as that be considered commercialism, which is against the contract. [/QUOTE]

I hate to burst your bubble but everyone engaging in buying and selling points is engaged in commercialism.

Disney could very easily put a stop to it but hasn't up to now.

Think about it. Does disney know this board exists? ABSOLUTELY!!

Could Disney put a stop to it? IN A SECOND!!

For whatever reason, Disney has chosen to let this thing exist and continues to allow it.

I think that Disney cannot stop it for one person or group of people without stopping it for everyone.