Recommendations for "newbie"

[Lizziejane]

Hi everyone,
I'm interested in getting into photography a little more. Currently, we have a "point & shoot" digital that totally frustrates me because I'm never happy with the results. I'm so inspired by the great posts on this board, I really want to try my hand at being a little more creative.

So, I've found courses in my area that look good, but I need a new camera first. I think I'm leaning to digital vs. film, but beyond that, I haven't a clue. I don't want to break the bank first time out - after all, while I appreciate the beauty in the work of others, it doesn't mean I'll have an "eye" for this.

I did just a little research on-line, and came up with a Nikon D70 and Canon Digital Rebel (EOS 200D), both of which would be in my price range (although definitely at the higher end).

My question are: is digital the way to go vs. film? Are either of the cameras I mentioned above good enough? too good? would/could you recommend a cheaper "starter"?

Any help would be greatly aprpeciated!

 

[Anewman]

My question are: is digital the way to go vs. film? Are either of the cameras I mentioned above good enough? too good? would/could you recommend a cheaper "starter"?

Any help would be greatly aprpeciated!

IMO yes digital is the way to go.

I would consider the following sub $500 Digital SLRs.

1. Canon Rebel XT(350D)
2. Nikon D50
3. Pentax K100D

All Three are currently under $500, and all priced within $20 of each other. Prices as of 12/14/06 at Buydig/beachcamera dotcoms, for BODY ONLY.

 

[handicap18]

The Nikon D70 is obsolete at this point. It has since been replaced by the D70s and now the D80. Also the Nikon D50 is a bit less expensive with not quite as many features, but has a much better sensor and far better high ISO performance (one of the best of all the dSLR's). I believe the D50 is also a bit less expensive than the D70.

For Canon I belive you meant the 20D. That is an excellent. It was "replaced" by the 30D, but with not to many more features, but more expensive (the 30D does have spot metering where the 20D does not, {all the Nikon's listed have spot metering}). You might also want to consider Canon's newest model the digital rebel XTi.

Since Groucho will be here soon enough, I'd be remiss if I did not mention Pentax. They now have a great line of dSLR's. (forgive me Groucho and other Pentax users if I get the specific models wrong, also please correct me if it is wrong). The big one now with Pentax is the K100D. Their previous model was the DL *ist. They are great camera's at very affordable prices. Pentax' biggest thing is the in-body Image Stabilization (IS). Nikon and Canon have IS available in their line, but only with lenses.

Pentax isn't known as well for their lenses as Nikon and Canon are, but they do make excellent equipment. Sigma, Tamron and Tokina are 3rd party lens makers that have lenses available for all the major camera makers.

You really can't go wrong with which ever choice you make. A dSLR is a big step up from a P&S. Don't let the megapixels get the best of you. More does not necessarily mean better (unless you compare a dSLR to a P&S because a dSLR has a larger sensor than a P&S does). 6MP to 8MP isn't a huge jump. 6MP to 10MP is a pretty big jump, however the sensor is the same size, so your really only fitting more MP in the same space which can sometimes lead to more noise issues at the higher ISO's.

Its not just the camera your buying, its the whole system of lenses and flashes and other accessories. Its not an easy choice if you've never used an SLR in the past. For me I've been a Nikon user for almost 20 years, so it was a fairly easy choice as my options were less. I went with the D50 over the D70s because I felt that the few extra bells and whistles weren't worth the extra cost ($300 at the time) and after almost 12 full months of use and over 4,000 pictures later I'm very happy with my choice.

Goood luck with your search.

 

[Groucho]

If you're not sure how serious you are, you may want to either stick with your current camera (assuming that it has some manual functions) or perhaps pick up a cheap used 35mm SLR. You won't get the instant feedback of a DSLR but you'll be able get in for a far smaller outlay of cash.

Another option is a used DSLR or higher-end digital PnS. A DSLR, even an inexpensive one, is a good chunk of money.

Taking a class is probably a good idea. It's easy to buy an expensive camera and still take photos that you're not happy with. If your current camera has manual settings, you can probably use them and become more satisfied with the results before spending the money for a new camera - but certainly a DSLR or possibly even a higher-end PnS could be a much more effective tool, once you're more confident of how to use it.

Anewman did a good job listing the entry-level DSLRs, although the Pentax has a $50 rebate currently (until 1/9/07) so the body only is $439, or $511 with a lens. They also have the K110D which is basically identical except no image stabilization for $336 body only or $419 with lens. All the options are great cameras and you should be happy with any one of them.

 

[Groucho]

Since Groucho will be here soon enough, I'd be remiss if I did not mention Pentax.

I guess I'm doing a good job of keeping everyone on their toes!

They now have a great line of dSLR's. (forgive me Groucho and other Pentax users if I get the specific models wrong, also please correct me if it is wrong). The big one now with Pentax is the K100D. Their previous model was the DL *ist. They are great camera's at very affordable prices. Pentax' biggest thing is the in-body Image Stabilization (IS). Nikon and Canon have IS available in their line, but only with lenses.

Pentax isn't known as well for their lenses as Nikon and Canon are, but they do make excellent equipment. Sigma, Tamron and Tokina are 3rd party lens makers that have lenses available for all the major camera makers.

Pretty close on the history. There was actually a whole family of *ist D-series cameras - *ist D, *ist DS (the high-end one of the family), *ist DL (entry-level), and the short-lived *ist DS2 and *ist DL2. (I may be forgetting a couple, too!) Fortunately they dumped those confusing names and invoked the classic K1000 name with the K110D and K100D (plus the new K10D). The K110D is the only one that doesn't have IS - but man, is it affordable! A real bargain and still very competitive with the D50 and XT (same image quality that DPReview raved about on the K100D, just no IS.)

I don't know if I would agree that Pentax isn't as known for their lenses, their kit lens is certainly as good or better than the ones included with the competition and their Limited lenses can definitely compete with anything else out there - to say nothing of the 50mm 1.4, generally regarded as the best available. However, they tend to lean more towards primes and less towards zooms; they don't have any 18-200mm or 70-300mm lenses - there is a 60-250mm coming soon though.

All the cameras at the entry-level price point are excellent though, no question about that.

 

[boBQuincy]

My question are: is digital the way to go vs. film? Are either of the cameras I mentioned above good enough? too good? would/could you recommend a cheaper "starter"?

Any help would be greatly aprpeciated!

Digital has surpassed film in almost every way.
For entry level I would look at Canon's Rebel XT (an older model but still a good one) and Nikon's D40. Both of these are bargains but are still very competent cameras, with an extensive assortment of lenses available.

 

[ukcatfan]

For film vs. digital, do not forget that unless you are printing, your digital pics are essentially free, where you have to buy film and spend on processing it. Also, while you are learning, you are going to have a bunch of trash shots. It feels bad throwing away a picture when you spent money developing it, but not so bad when you are just deleting it from a memory card.

I have a Pentax K100D and I have been very happy with it. If the largest savings is what you are after, then I say go with the K110D. It is tough to beat a DSLR that is close to $300.

I have to agree with Groucho that the Pentax kit lens is probably the best around. I tried out the Canon XT and Nikon D50 also, but liked the Pentax the best.

Kevin

 

[Lizziejane]

Taking a class is probably a good idea. It's easy to buy an expensive camera and still take photos that you're not happy with. If your current camera has manual settings, you can probably use them and become more satisfied with the results before spending the money for a new camera - but certainly a DSLR or possibly even a higher-end PnS could be a much more effective tool, once you're more confident of how to use it.

Unfortunately, our current camera does not have manual settings, so something else is a necessity. I'm interested in hearing more about the higher-end PnS - would that be something like the Canon PowerShot? I noticed a 8 MP PowerShot A630 for $349 (Cdn.) with a $50 rebate offer. I kind of like the idea of maybe starting off with a higher-end PnS - kind of less intimidating for me, if that makes sense. Plus I haven't broke the bank if it turns out that I suck at this!! lol

I'm afraid I"m really a newbie here - much of the technical stuff totally baffles me (but I'm assuming that's what I'd learn in the course). If I went with the PnS, what (if any) manual controls does it have? Would it allow enough options to get a good "feel" or taste for taking better pictures?

 

[rparmfamily]

For me, I'd go with the DSLR. I had a digital until a few years ago, when DH bought me a Canon Rebel SLR (film) and I haven't used digital since, except for Ebay. The clarity of my SLR is beyond wonderful. I've been getting tired of using my SLR because I end up with like 10 rolls of film to develop at one time and that gets pricey, plus I am having a harder time learning because by the time I develop the film I forget what I was trying to do!

The good news (for me!) is DH surprised me with a Canon Rebel Xti DSLR today!!! I LOVE playing with the settings, and being able to see instantly what works and what doesn't. I think this will help my learning curve!

Anyway, I'd recommend a DSLR. My SIL has the Nikon D70 and is very happy with it, we prefer Canon's (plus I already had a lens that fits).

Good luck!

 

[Groucho]

Unfortunately, our current camera does not have manual settings, so something else is a necessity. I'm interested in hearing more about the higher-end PnS - would that be something like the Canon PowerShot? I noticed a 8 MP PowerShot A630 for $349 (Cdn.) with a $50 rebate offer. I kind of like the idea of maybe starting off with a higher-end PnS - kind of less intimidating for me, if that makes sense. Plus I haven't broke the bank if it turns out that I suck at this!! lol

First rule of becoming an educated digital photographer - don't be fooled by the megapixel count! It's more marketing than anything else. Most PnS cameras have exactly the same size sensor, and trying to get more data out of them usually means more noise and less detail. Under perfect conditions you will probably see more detail on an 8mp than a 5mp PnS but most of the time there will be no difference, especially when shrunk down to a size that you'll view on your PC.

Usually the higher-end PnSs are long-zoom (12x) cameras like the Sony H2/H5 or Canon S2/S3 (as well as similar ones from Fuji, Kodak, Panasonic, etc.) The main thing you're looking for is manual control, which most offer. Manual focus is extremely difficult with all but one or two PnSs, but you will at least be able to play with the ISO, aperture, and shutter speed, which is important as you become more advanced.

If you do want to take the leap into a DSLR without breaking the bank, the Pentax K110D is easily the cheapest way to do it, and you're getting a pretty complete camera for that price. For another $100-$150, you can get into a K100D (with image stabilization but otherwise the same) or Nikon D50 or Canon Rebel XT if you want to check out the competition - but apart from the IS of the K100D, with the K110D, you're looking at a pretty competitive camera in that segment for a bargain-basement price.

Of course, a DSLR is a slippery slope; the kit lens won't have the long zoom of the higher-end PnS cameras so you'll probably want a bigger lens... and maybe a fast prime... wide-angle... etc, etc! But you will be able to get much more quality - a DSLR's sensor has almost 10x the surface area of most PnS sensors.

 

[Lizziejane]

Thanks all - I really appreciate the input!

 

[Master Mason]

Unfortunately, our current camera does not have manual settings, so something else is a necessity. I'm interested in hearing more about the higher-end PnS - would that be something like the Canon PowerShot? I noticed a 8 MP PowerShot A630 for $349 (Cdn.) with a $50 rebate offer. I kind of like the idea of maybe starting off with a higher-end PnS - kind of less intimidating for me, if that makes sense. Plus I haven't broke the bank if it turns out that I suck at this!! lol

I'm afraid I"m really a newbie here - much of the technical stuff totally baffles me (but I'm assuming that's what I'd learn in the course). If I went with the PnS, what (if any) manual controls does it have? Would it allow enough options to get a good "feel" or taste for taking better pictures?

I would look at the S3IS if your looking at the non dSLRs... it is a bridge camera, lots of manual capablity good zoom and an all around great camera from everything I have read. They call it a bridge camera because it has some SLR like capablities while still being a P&S

 

[jann1033]

i don't know about any P& s but canon but i know they offer auto( preset ie for close ups portraits etc) and manual( they call it creative) modes for you to pick the shutter speed, aperture, a full manual( you set both) and program where you can pick to use a flash or not but the rest is set for you. you can buy a canon a610 powershot( or 600, i keep forgetting to look it up, one is 5 mp the other 7mp) for around $230-50..i think there is a newer model so they might be cheaper but i think they still sell them..then you can use that for a class, get accustom to setting things yourself but still have the auto modes for what ever you want.( the bridge ie s2/3 IS, (i think around$400 now) have the same setup as does the rebel xt)

imo that would be good to start with as 1) even if you do love it and want to get more involved they are nice little point and shoots to use or for someone else in the family to use 2) the inital out lay is not so great if you don't love it 3) (d) or film slr has a learning curve to put it mildly and dslr cost a lot like close to $1000 would probably be a conservative estimate( i mean by the time you add everything, body lens bag cards etc to maybe end up using like a p&s 4) with canon at least the controls carry over so you don't lose anything you've learned when you trade up

beach has the a 630( the newer model for 255 and the s2IS for under $300
http://www.beachcamera.com/shop/product.aspx?sku=CNPSA630 the sensors on those two might be the same ( they were on the a600 and 610)but the s2 IS has image stabilization and 12x zoom vs a630 no IS and 4x zoom