Really bad mail trading experience! (No name mentioned)

[3kids4me]

Oh my...I had to file my first pinpics complaint recently because I didn't receive a pin and the sender was not responding to e-mails.

Well, that woke her up! I got about ten e-mails from her in the space of two days (with copies to the pinpics moderators) and various additons to the complaint record in all caps (gotta love that) insisting over and over that (1) She did too send the pin, (2) A moderator told her to wait and not send another one (3) No one ever told her that the pin still wasn't received (Fortunately, I have AOL and so did she, so I could see that she opened my e-mails.) (4) She does not like this defamatory complaint against her. (She also doesn't know how to spell libel, but likes to use the word a lot.)

Anyway, then she files a complaint against me for complaining about her! What stress. This morning one of the moderators cancelled that complaint, and she ends up thanking him for realizing that she did too mail her pin the first time...where she got that one is beyond me.

Anyway, everytime a stupid note is added to a pinpics complaint it comes to your e-mail. Joette told me to block them, but I don't want to do that because, as much stress as it is to read them, I want to see what she is saying next!

As of yesterday she claimed she was mailing it with delivery confirmation. The number doesn't register on the usps site, but I'm hoping it will soon.

All this over a dumb pin...why do I bother? My biggest mistake this time was that I told my daughter she was getting the pin before we had it in hand...won't be doing that anymore. I think I'll just stick to in-person trading for awhile.

The worst part is that I did everything I was supposed to do. I sent my pin, I waited patiently, I e-mailed her several times, I notified a moderator who tried to work with her, and as a last resort, the moderator told me it was time to file the complaint. Yet, somehow I end up with all the stress.

People are scary. Thankfully she lives far away!

 

[LynniethePooh]

Oh Sharon! You poor dear.....and I can so empathize because I was going to post something very similar this morning. I have never had a problem with online trades. I have been trading online since Feb of 2000 and it was just in the last month or so that I had to file TWO complaints to pinpics. I have emailed them OVER and over with no response, that is when I finally did the Complaint Dept route.

And I was thinking much the same thing.....why do I bother? All this stress and worry and extra work over a PIN?

I have since turned off the TA and have decided to only trade with people I TRUELY know. I am sorry that leaves out the new, honest, innocent trader, but I , like you, just can't stand this nonsense anymore.

sigh......

Just as a side note, I did get one reply from the person that I 'esculated to moderator'. She is checking with the post office and said she did send my pin. But she doesn't have her receipt either. Just smells funny to me.....My question is, WHY didn't she respond to my emails about it?

At this point, I don't even care about the pin (it was actually TWO LE's), it is more the principal of it.


argh.

 

[JudithM]

Sharon & Lynnie, I am sorry to read that this happened to both of you since you are both on my "Definitely trade with again" list.

 

[Luv2Roam]

Well that's the link -- JudithM!
I am on her trade list and I have a bad trader right now too!
Are you a jinx, JudithM?

 

[JudithM]

Originally posted by Luv2Roam
Well that's the link -- JudithM!
I am on her trade list and I have a bad trader right now too!
Are you a jinx, JudithM?

Now wait a minute ... the last person I traded with was Lynnie & before that probably Barb . Gee, when was the last time I traded with Sharon? I did send emails on Rachel's (& family) behalf. How did I get into all of this !!!?

 

[Luv2Roam]

JudithM -- lol

Now if the pins you want and collect turn out to be bad, I-can't-trade-this-pin-for-nothun traders then I KNOW you are the Pin Jinx!
So when are you headin' to FL?
I think Disney should make binders for pin people's heads -- like the Amish have for their horses. With that and a neck brace I would save a mint!

 

[AZ JazzyJ]

Originally posted by Luv2Roam
Now if the pins you want and collect turn out to be bad

If her pins are bad would that mean we would have to send JudithM to the Pin-itentiary? And if so, do you think we can talk her into making us some Disney license plate pins? I want a Goofy one.

Jeff

 

[3kids4me]

Hey, don't be picking on Judith...she is a pin good luck charm!! (And I say that even though the witness protection program forgot to assign her a last name....)

 

[Luv2Roam]

We can call JuithM, Mrs M for short.

Got your e-mail Sharon.
Been there, done that with that same trader! I forwarded that name on to (as a warning) Mrs M quite awhile back.
Joette was able to shake lose the pin from that person, where my e-mails were being ignored.
And I didn't even want that trade. I was doing it as a favor.
Seems like repeat offenders just need to be removed from Pinpics. But that's just MHO.

 

[3kids4me]

Yes, I've found out now that this has happened to others...but the sad thing is that it keeps going on and no one is doing anything about it!

I tried to post about my experience on dizpins (also not using a name) and it got deleted. Apparently they don't even want people posting about bad trading experiences there, which is just nuts.

If someone who had a bad reputation wanted to trade and I liked the offer, I would just ask to do a third party trade. And I wouldn't be offended if someone wanted to do that with me either. So I'm not sure whose purpose it is serving to try to prevent any discussion of bad trade experiences. Unfortunately, the only one who gets protected is the bad trader.

Ugh!

 

[Luv2Roam]

Sharon -- Were the others able to eventually get their trade pin (through Joette or other means)? Did anyone actually get stuck? (Just curious)
Too bad there isn't a Three Strikes Rule.
You can see three times all happened at once, and there was actually something going on in the private life. But this has been on going for quite some time with this trader, that I even know of.

 

[3kids4me]

Ted claims that not one complaint has ever been filed against her. So, I would encourage anyone who had a problem and did let the mods know over there to remind them with an e-mail!!

 

[Buzz2001]

Welcome to my world Sharon. I've been advocating for references to be two-sided but like you, my posts got deleted too.

 

[Luv2Roam]

I sent an e-mail Sharon. My troubles were before the complaint dept.

 

[sbasowski]

Hello all!

If I had a dollar for every time that I found myself explaining moderator actions, I would have been able to buy the Haunted Mansion Dangle, and say to heck with trading for it!!! Personally, I don't understand why the constant explanations are necessary, however, here I go again!

Posting on Dizpins:
I am constantly asked why. Why was this edited? Why was that edited? Why isn't this allowed? Why isn't that allowed? Everyone has to understand one thing. Dizpins, currently, is 23 members shy of 4,000! That's 4,000 people! I'm going to attempt to use a quick analogy to get my point across fast:

Let's say you have a dinner party where 4,000 people are in attendance. When the dinner bell rings, you roll out 1,000 pizzas loaded with anchovies! How many people are you going to turn away? How many people are going to be upset with your cuisine of choice? A LOT! Now, knowing this ahead of time, would you still decide to go with anchovies, or would you play it safe and just get cheese? Now, granted, some people like anchovies, but the vast majority hate them.

Now, obviously, we're not ever going to please everyone all of the time. We try real hard, but it just isn't happening! So, we try to please the majority, and pray that you fit into it most of the time.

Bad Trader Discussions:
Why are bad trader discussions not allowed? Simple! They are VERY subjective. What person A considers to be a bad trader may not even be close to person B's description. Let's say that someone gets a computer virus and they're without a computer for a week. They can't respond to email. So, the person that they're in the middle of a trade with thinks they're being blown off. Now, the person with the virus gets their computer back and promptly emails the person and posts something on the boards as an apology. My question......is the person who had the virus now a bad trader????? For those of you that said no, would you believe that I handled a formal complaint recently regarding just this very thing?

So, you see, what makes up a bad trader is very subjective. There are systems in place to take care of them. You have to have faith in them. A few of you here have posted that if it weren't for them, you'd be up a creek without a pin! Finally, people referenced in bad trader posts are most of the time members of the very board you're posting on. That being said, imagine how they would feel. So, technically, it could be considered an indirect personal attack, and we care too much about our members to allow those and any posts close to them.

Trader References:
I believe that this has been discussed before. We would LOVE nothing better than to figure out an acceptable way to create a reference center that everyone is happy with. Many of you have suggested that we create an eBay-like reference center. That is impossible. There are privacy policies, legal disclaimers, user agreements, etc., etc., etc. All of which is not a part of any Disney related board that I'm aware of. So, that being said, we simply cannot devote the resources to get that all together. Have any of you tried filing a complaint with eBay or PayPal? How many hoops did you have to jump through to do it. A LOT! Why? Because, legally, that's what's necessary in order to have the type of protection and risk management that everyone is asking for. A multi-million dollar company with a legal team the size of a football field is capable of doing this. An unofficial Disney site with ZERO income, however, is not.

Again, you have to trust the systems that we've put into place. We take them VERY seriously. However, with these systems comes protocol. We have to follow steps before taking action. We have to remain fair and impartial and give all parties involved a chance to rectify the situation. In other words, we cannot shoot first and ask questions later. How fair would that be? Depending on the severity of the offense, there is a three strikes rule. However, the three strikes is based on formally filed complaints. We cannot use any number of emails from previous victims as it would be considered hearsay, and therfore, unfair. We appreciate the emails, but again, we have to remain fair and impartial, and we have to go by formally documented facts. To do otherwise would be just plain wrong. Again, we take this very seriously, and we try to do everything in our power to prevent ANYONE from falling victim to a bad trader.

On a personal note, I am deeply saddened to have to read and write this. Today, I spent (including typing this) 5 hours moderating Dizpins and PinPics. Boards like this one exist because someone wanted to give back something to the hobby that they love so much. The moderators of these boards exist, because they, too, want to give something back to the hobby. We try SO hard to give everyone a safe and happy place to share their interests with others. It's our sworn duty to make sure that everyone is as happy as they can be. We make personal sacrifices to see that this happens. So, when reading threads like this, it makes me feel like I've failed somewhere. As I said before, we try so hard, but again, we know that we can't please everyone all of the time. That's just the way it is, and we have to live with that. However, when people are upset after we feel that we've done the best job that we can, we are forced to ask, "what more would you like from us?"

I hope that this post hasn't offended anyone. Please accept my sincerest apologies if it has. I did not intend it to be an attack on anyone, nor did I even mean it to carry a negative tone. My goal was to clear up any misunderstandings and confusion that have been created.

Finally, I would like to thank the moderators of the DIS Board. I know a couple of you personally....one of you lives 10 minutes from me. You all do a fantastic job with these boards, and I encourage you to keep up the GREAT work! Thank you for continuing to spread the magic and continue the tradition.

Warmest Regards,
Ted
GhostHost76 ~ Dizpins Moderator

 

[Luv2Roam]

Thank you GhostHost76 for your input. We may not show it all the time, but all are deeply thankful for mods time. We all know pins wouldn't be what they are today without boards like Dizpins, The Dis, etc. The success of pins really falls on the shoulders of volunteers like yourself, Joette, Figgy, etc. And we all deeply appreciate everything that goes on back stage.

That being said -- I think we all know the difference between bad traders and someone with a computer virus. Amazing how just certain people have so many lost packages, isn't it?

But again, THANKS SO MUCH!!! I appreciate the explanation.

 

[3kids4me]

I echo what Luv2Roam said...most of us know the difference between someone who may be having a problem and someone who opens your e-mails, doesn't respond to them, but suddenly jumps in when a moderator gets involved! I am thankful that when I'm having a problem, I have a place to vent about it here. As far as I can tell, I haven't hurt anyone in the process. The Disboards family was my first pintrading family and they have stood by me in situations much more serious than a pin problem!

Editing situations are different on every board, and while I understand that Dizpins may feel it's appropriate to not only edit things, but to also edit any questions about their editing, Disboards is different. I respect the Dizpins board rules and will follow them; you don't need to defend them . But with all due respect, please don't follow this over here and try to censor a healthy discussion that we are having on our own board. I'm glad you know some of the moderators here as you mentioned...I do too and they are very fair.

 

[LynniethePooh]

I echo what Luv2Roam said...most of us know the difference between someone who may be having a problem and someone who opens your e-mails, doesn't respond to them, but suddenly jumps in when a moderator gets involved!

Exactly, Sharon. I gave my two 'problem' traders ample opportunity to reply to my questioning emails. I waited considerably longer than the 'rules' state before filing a complaint. In my one case, and also in the case of THE RAY, who I assisted with filing a complaint, we had sent NUMEROUS emails asking about the pin status without a response.
However, when a moderator got involved, we each had an email from said traders within HOURS. Now come on, I am quite intelligent , THAT has nothing to do with a virus or personal troubles. That was pure and simple rudeness (I chose a kind word there) on their part. Not that the issue is anywhere near resolved, but hopefully this will help at keeping the communication going.

As I have said before, at this point it is not even about the pin. It is about basic human decency and honesty. If you mailed the pin and I didn't get it, why don't you just email me a response and say so? Why would someone purposely AVOID corresponding with me unless there was something devious going on?

The other trade I have outstanding at the moment, has been escalated to moderator status. I have not rec'd any reply yet. So we will see where that goes.

 

[3kids4me]

Hey Lynnie,

Have you read "The Secret Life of Bees"? I just read it the other day, and the father's name in the book is "T. Ray". Well, guess who I thought of the whole time?

 

[sbasowski]

Thank you, to everyone, for your kind words.

most of us know the difference between someone who may be having a problem and someone who opens your e-mails, doesn't respond to them, but suddenly jumps in when a moderator gets involved!

However, when a moderator got involved, we each had an email from said traders within HOURS.

Boy, if that doesn't speak volumes for the systems that are in place, I don't know what does!

Most of you know the difference between a bad trader and a person with a computer virus (per my example). However, you'd be surprised at the number of people that don't. Again, my point was to prove how subjective and opinionative the definition of a bad trader is. It, nor discussions regarding it, are not allowed on Dizpins, per our rules. The same rule applies on this board. Again, I feel the need to continue to stress this, because of the following quote that I've heard:

I tried to post about my experience on dizpins (also not using a name) and it got deleted. Apparently they don't even want people posting about bad trading experiences there, which is just nuts.

Now, should complaints have to be escalated to moderators? NO! In fact, should a complaint even be necessary? Again, NO! However, if that's what it takes, then that's what it takes! PERIOD! File that complaint! Escalate it a moderator! If that's what it takes in order to get your pin, then you owe it to yourself! Further, if that's what it takes to prevent it from happening to others, then you owe it to the pin trading community!

Finally:

But with all due respect, please don't follow this over here and try to censor a healthy discussion that we are having on our own board.

Sharon, you have mentioned Dizpins, me, and Joette by name. As long as you continue to carry on and question our actions, I will continue to post in an effort to explain our reasons and clear up any confusion. Contrary to your thoughts, I haven't tried to censor anything here. I haven't even tried to tell you that you're wrong. So, again, not sure where that's coming from.

Also, you mention, "...a healthy discussion that we are having on our own board." Is this not my board, too??? Am I not a member of this board as well??? Would it surprise you to learn that Stephanie and I were members of this board, before we even knew of Dizpins' existance? So, if you claim that I am not a member of this board, and that I am interferring with a healthy discussion on it, then who's censoring who?

Finally, you state:

The Disboards family was my first pintrading family and they have stood by me in situations much more serious than a pin problem!

Your Dizpins family is the same as your DIS Boards family. Look at the people who post. Most of them are on Dizpins as well. Your PIN TRADING family (myself included), regardless of forum, will continue to stand behind you and support you in any problems you choose to make public. We have in the past, and will continue to do so in the future.

Take Care,
Ted