Reading curriculum?

[pacrosby]

Somehow, myself and pretty much all of my friends were able to make it thorugh all of these reading asssignments still loving to read. I am in college and i still LOVE reading for fun. I don't get to do it very often but it's still enjoyable for me.

I really think that all of these kids who suddenly don't like to read anymore probably would have been turned off from it eventually anyway. I don't think you can blame the assignments. Do you think that they should not have to do book reports becasue it would "disrupt their love of learning"? Do you think that they should not have to do anything in english classes related to reading comprehension, etc becasue it would "disrupt their love of reading?"

I think their is so much more to it than just the assignment.

These assignments are so easy if you are doing them about a book you like.

But it becomes a chore when it's assigned every single night.....night after night after night. With each passing year I have watched the reading requirement increase.....from 15 minutes a night as often as possible....to 20 minutes every night....to 30 minutes every night and keeping a log....to 30+ minutes of reading plus a related writing assignment plus keeping a log.....to the inclusion of weekend reading in addition to the week night reading and the logs and the written assigment. All this on top of other homework. Can we say overkill? What's 'fun' about that???

No offense but I think it's rather short-sighted to say "it didn't negatively impact my enthusiasm so I don't believe it could possibly ruin anyone elses". This is actually a very common complaint of parents I know and we're not all just imagining it. I have personally watched my childrens' enthusiasm for reading wane over the years. It's not coincidental. They have made reading a chore...and chores are not fun

 

[rchristiansen]

Why should it be aimed at non-fiction? Once she gets into middle school and high school, most of what she's going to be doing in language arts/english classes is critically thinking about and analyzing fiction. Writing a reading response is helping prepare for the next steps of becoming the critical thinker and reader she will need to be in order to be successful in later grades.

Because fiction is fake. It's not real. It's whatever the author wants it to be. You can't analyze it. You can TRY and predict and think about it, but if the author wants a "blue banana to fall from the sky and change the main character into a leprechaun with the magical fruity powers" they can.

Non-fiction is real. It's full true stories, about real life that you CAN learn from. You can learn from a biography about a person's experiences, events and mistakes. You can learn from science literature about discoveries, learn to analyze evidence, and make statistically supported predictions etc. You can learn from social studies about how people interact and predict based on historical models. All of these require critical thinking about critical issues.

I was just talking about this whole issue with DH and now I'm really irked by it. He is too. A report just came out that showed the United States scores "OK" in reading compared to other countries. But we are pathetic in Math and Science. But what does our school district do today? Introduces MORE work into reading curriculum. Now DD's class focuses an hour a day on reading and writing homework and five minutes on math. Oh, yeah, by the way, there is a science report due in a couple weeks that needs to be five paragraphs. Whoop de doo.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Because fiction is fake. It's not real. It's whatever the author wants it to be.

Well, sort of yes, sort of no, and in either case, that's actually the point.

Unless you have the author's ear, you can't find out what the author intended by a particular piece of writing. That's where critical thinking and analysis comes in. Sometimes the author has a point, and you figure that out point through the style of writing, use of tropes, metaphor, irony, personification, etc., to draw out the author's meaning.

But sometimes, you get your own meaning out of a literary work, regardless of what the author intended. It's called the Reader Response form of literary analysis, and when I was younger I used to balk at the idea. But as I get older, I see it has merit. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, as Freud may have said. Sometimes it's what you make of it, instead.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I understand the curriculum goals they are trying to reach by having kids do all these sorts of exercises, but then they yammer on about how important it is for the kids to become 'lifelong readers'. Well if you want them to become lifelong readers, then it has to be FUN. If you are going to suck every ounce of enjoyment out of reading by making it such a chore and a darn process, then you're just going to turn the kids off of wanting to read.

As a former English teacher and former young adult librarian, and a mother (and a former kid in school who had these types of assignments as well), I whole heartedly agree

These ARE important skills to learn (yes, as they apply to fiction as well--or, more to the point, are applied differently to fiction as to non fiction, and both ways should be taught) but this type of thing should be a once every couple of weeks type of assignment, NOT an every day and after all reading thing. This, as it is being handled by the OPs school, will succeed more in turning kids off of both reading and writing than in it will in teaching them anything worthwhile.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Non-fiction is real. It's full true stories, about real life that you CAN learn from. You can learn from a biography about a person's experiences, events and mistakes. You can learn from science literature about discoveries, learn to analyze evidence, and make statistically supported predictions etc. You can learn from social studies about how people interact and predict based on historical models. All of these require critical thinking about critical issues.

These are two completely different types of thinking, all together. For example, when reading about something in Social Studies, you might read about the Japanese internment in World War II and consider whether it was fair and how it's analogous to today's issues.

But then if you read Harry Potter, you're thinking about the author's intentions and use of literary devices, etc.

Now DD's class focuses an hour a day on reading and writing homework and five minutes on math.

I do agree that the homework in your child's class seems to be lopsided, and is too much time for a 4th grader to spend on homework, by the way. But that doesn't mean I don't think the work itself isn't useful. It just sounds like there's too much of it to do at home.

 

[cornflake]

Well, sort of yes, sort of no, and in either case, that's actually the point.

Unless you have the author's ear, you can't find out what the author intended by a particular piece of writing. That's where critical thinking and analysis comes in. Sometimes the author has a point, and you figure that out point through the style of writing, use of tropes, metaphor, irony, personification, etc., to draw out the author's meaning.

But sometimes, you get your own meaning out of a literary work, regardless of what the author intended. It's called the Reader Response form of literary analysis, and when I was younger I used to balk at the idea. But as I get older, I see it has merit. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, as Freud may have said. Sometimes it's what you make of it, instead.

This.

Literature is art. There's certainly a level of "the road not taken" that seems fairly obvious, interpretation-wise, to most, but there's also a level at which all literature is like a painting. What the artist intended or had as thought is one thing - what the observer or reader takes from it may be another, and that's fine. "What do you see/what do you get out of it/what does it make you feel?" are perfectly valid and valuable questions.

Just because it's fiction doesn't mean there's no value or goal to predicting, interpreting, discussing the meaning within, etc. Even if you think it does mean that though, again, she's going to do this for the next 12 years, for poetry, drama, prose, so... get used to it? Heh. It seems to be your personal issue with not liking fiction more than anything else - which is fine, like whatever you like, but no need to put your personal prejudices on her.

 

[princessmom29]

But it becomes a chore when it's assigned every single night.....night after night after night. With each passing year I have watched the reading requirement increase.....from 15 minutes a night as often as possible....to 20 minutes every night....to 30 minutes every night and keeping a log....to 30+ minutes of reading plus a related writing assignment plus keeping a log.....to the inclusion of weekend reading in addition to the week night reading and the logs and the written assigment. All this on top of other homework. Can we say overkill? What's 'fun' about that???

No offense but I think it's rather short-sighted to say "it didn't negatively impact my enthusiasm so I don't believe it could possibly ruin anyone elses". This is actually a very common complaint of parents I know and we're not all just imagining it. I have personally watched my childrens' enthusiasm for reading wane over the years. It's not coincidental. They have made reading a chore...and chores are not fun

ITA with this. It is not really the assignment that is the problem, but the frequency. I don't think elementary aged kids ought to be doing this kind of extended assignment every night, and frankly I think you reach a point of dimishing return where there is no benefit to it at all anymore. If they were donig this once a week instead of every night, it might be a more reasonable assignment and less likely to become a chore.

 

[rchristiansen]

This.

Literature is art. There's certainly a level of "the road not taken" that seems fairly obvious, interpretation-wise, to most, but there's also a level at which all literature is like a painting. What the artist intended or had as thought is one thing - what the observer or reader takes from it may be another, and that's fine. "What do you see/what do you get out of it/what does it make you feel?" are perfectly valid and valuable questions.

Just because it's fiction doesn't mean there's no value or goal to predicting, interpreting, discussing the meaning within, etc. Even if you think it does mean that though, again, she's going to do this for the next 12 years, for poetry, drama, prose, so... get used to it? Heh. It seems to be your personal issue with not liking fiction more than anything else - which is fine, like whatever you like, but no need to put your personal prejudices on her.

Yup, your right, I hate literature. I never read an entire novel in my life - ever. I never took a literature class in college. Honestly, I don't see the real world value in it other than entertainment. I don't think there are too many employment opportunities out there for literature experts.

My daughter enjoys reading. That's great and I am excited to see that she enjoys it. We encourage it - her room is full of hundreds of books that we bought for her. Why take the fun out of it by requiring so much busy work on top of it?

 

[cornflake]

Yup, your right, I hate literature. I never read an entire novel in my life - ever. I never took a literature class in college. Honestly, I don't see the real world value in it other than entertainment. I don't think there are too many employment opportunities out there for literature experts.

My daughter enjoys reading. That's great and I am excited to see that she enjoys it. We encourage it - her room is full of hundreds of books that we bought for her. Why take the fun out of it by requiring so much busy work on top of it?

Really?

The people writing all the books you hate? The people in the publishing houses editing the books you hate? Publishing them, marketing them? The people working at endless venues reviewing those books?

The people in (I grant you diminishing numbers of) bookstores selling those books? The people teaching students about those books? Lit professors are not exactly rare.

This is in book form and not counting the people working at the endless magazines writing, editing, publishing, etc.

Also.... all those shows on television? All those movies in theatres? The vast majority of them are fiction - that someone wrote. Then someone edited, filmed, directed, etc., etc. Who do you think writes the stories for video games?

The employment opportunities for literature experts are kind of endless.

Beyond that you don't seem to value entertainment for entertainment's sake - or art for art's sake - there are more jobs there, in more fields, than for many other experts.

 

[Piper]

A lot of what children absorb comes from the parent. A parent that hates to read ( or do math, science etc.) and constantly questions the child's assignments is telling the child that reading ( or math, science etc.) has no value. S/he may not be saying the words out loud, but that is what comes across to the child.

A good reader is constantly analyzing a book in their head -- asking the questions your daughter is being required to answer. It is called meta-cognitive thinking. It is valuable in any type of reading; either fiction or non-fiction. All the grades I have taught are able to do this (even my pre-k classes.) As a matter of fact when you are reading to your child, it is a good idea to discuss the book as you go. And yes, fourth graders love to be read to! My classes looked forward to that part of our day.

 

[rchristiansen]

Really?



The employment opportunities for literature experts are kind of endless.

Writers and Authors are number 94 and librarians is 149, well below careers that require math and science.

http://www.careerinfonet.org/oview1...occode=&stfips=00&jobfam=&group=1&showall=yes

ETA: In addition, the Arts & Media unemployment rate is much higher than any other field and continues to rise, while others have leveled off or dropped : http://rabareview.com/2011/04/28/education-in-america-unemployment-by-field-of-study

 

[cornflake]

A lot of what children absorb comes from the parent. A parent that hates to read ( or do math, science etc.) and constantly questions the child's assignments is telling the child that reading ( or math, science etc.) has no value. S/he may not be saying the words out loud, but that is what comes across to the child.

A good reader is constantly analyzing a book in their head -- asking the questions your daughter is being required to answer. It is called meta-cognitive thinking. It is valuable in any type of reading; either fiction or non-fiction. All the grades I have taught are able to do this (even my pre-k classes.) As a matter of fact when you are reading to your child, it is a good idea to discuss the book as you go. And yes, fourth graders love to be read to! My classes looked forward to that part of our day.

I think this is important.

As noted, your feelings are your feelings - whatever, you're an adult. But I think you need to know your response to fiction and literature is not and never was normal.

Little children, reading stories about a kitty on the run, or whatever, will automatically offer ideas about what might happen next, unprompted. That is a natural reaction.

They'll speculate about the feelings of characters, their motivation, what will happen next in the story, etc., etc. That's, again, perfectly normal behaviour and response to fiction.

No one is saying you need to do it but your sortof anger at it being an expected thing does, as the poster above notes, seem like it will be sortof obvious to your daughter, even if you're not saying it outright, as it seems like it comes with a lot of disdain for what most people take for granted. It is normal to do and to ask kids to note down. It shouldn't be a hard exercise.

 

[rchristiansen]

I think this is important.

As noted, your feelings are your feelings - whatever, you're an adult. But I think you need to know your response to fiction and literature is not and never was normal.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[cornflake]

Writers and Authors are number 94 and librarians is 149, well below careers that require math and science.

http://www.careerinfonet.org/oview1...occode=&stfips=00&jobfam=&group=1&showall=yes

First, that's a list of growing occupations. I didn't say the fields were expanding, I said the opportunities were endless.

Writer isn't the only avenue for literature lovers and experts.

Publishing houses are buildings full of such people. Reviewers, magazine publishers, writers, editors, etc. Not to mention teachers of literature, literature therapists (yes, bibliotherapy is a real thing), etc. And most 'writer' categories don't count things like the people who write the stories for video games, etc.

 

[PaulaSB12]

I think this is important.

As noted, your feelings are your feelings - whatever, you're an adult. But I think you need to know your response to fiction and literature is not and never was normal.

Little children, reading stories about a kitty on the run, or whatever, will automatically offer ideas about what might happen next, unprompted. That is a natural reaction.

They'll speculate about the feelings of characters, their motivation, what will happen next in the story, etc., etc. That's, again, perfectly normal behaviour and response to fiction.

No one is saying you need to do it but your sortof anger at it being an expected thing does, as the poster above notes, seem like it will be sortof obvious to your daughter, even if you're not saying it outright, as it seems like it comes with a lot of disdain for what most people take for granted. It is normal to do and to ask kids to note down. It shouldn't be a hard exercise.

But why do they need to do this every single night? If I had been told that I have to read every night, I have to analyse the book every night then it would have put me off reading. Get them to analyse when the book has been finished but let them enjoy the book first.

 

[palavra]

Writers and Authors are number 94 and librarians is 149, well below careers that require math and science.

http://www.careerinfonet.org/oview1...occode=&stfips=00&jobfam=&group=1&showall=yes

ETA: In addition, the Arts & Media unemployment rate is much higher than any other field and continues to rise, while others have leveled off or dropped : http://rabareview.com/2011/04/28/education-in-america-unemployment-by-field-of-study

Since when do people learn about the world and how others interpret it only to get a job? Critical reading skills are just that-skills. They take time and effort to learn. For many people, their enjoymnet of reading is enhanced by learning to infer, predict and find the cause/effect relationship. Just because YOU don't like literature and see it as necessary doesn't mean that others feel the same way. Of course, learning these skills can seem like a chore for a while in a similar way that learning the multiplication tables can be misery for even a child that loves math. Learning takes effort, but once the skills are there, they will benefit your daughter for a lifetime.

 

[palavra]

But why do they need to do this every single night? If I had been told that I have to read every night, I have to analyse the book every night then it would have put me off reading. Get them to analyse when the book has been finished but let them enjoy the book first.

I am currently teaching literature to kids who would be in year 6 in the U.K. Even at their ages, I don't think my students could remember and effectively analyze a whole story or novel only after it was read. Skills such as prediction and inference have to be taught as the book is being read.

Once again, how is analyzing your reading every night any different than memorizing vocabulary terms or multiplication facts? Will kids hate math if they have to work on multiplication facts every night?

 

[princessmom29]

I am currently teaching literature to kids who would be in year 6 in the U.K. Even at their ages, I don't think my students could remember and effectively analyze a whole story or novel only after it was read. Skills such as prediction and inference have to be taught as the book is being read.

Once again, how is analyzing your reading every night any different than memorizing vocabulary terms or multiplication facts? Will kids hate math if they have to work on multiplication facts every night?

I am a math and science teacher, and yes, if you spend too much time and effort forcing them to memorize facts, they do definitely fight back agianst it and develop a negative attitude about math that sometimes doesn't ever go away. DD's school says no more than 20 min per night sohuld be spent on rote memorization. I tell my kids the same thing. Working knowledge is much more valuble, and practice with the facts is the best way to learn them. I think the same thing is true of reading, or anything else for that matter. Spend enough time drilling just for the sake of drilling, and it begins to wear.

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

I understand the curriculum goals they are trying to reach by having kids do all these sorts of exercises, but then they yammer on about how important it is for the kids to become 'lifelong readers'. Well if you want them to become lifelong readers, then it has to be FUN. If you are going to suck every ounce of enjoyment out of reading by making it such a chore and a darn process, then you're just going to turn the kids off of wanting to read.

Totally agree.

 

[diznygirl]

But why do they need to do this every single night? If I had been told that I have to read every night, I have to analyse the book every night then it would have put me off reading. Get them to analyse when the book has been finished but let them enjoy the book first.

My daughter's 3rd grade class did this for two weeks and then stopped. I thought, "great, more work" (although I didn't think to start a thread) and then it stopped. It was good experience while she was doing it, and I'm glad the teacher is smarter than me.