Rant: The DDP is ruining everything!

[kaytieeldr]

Kaytieeldr, I think you've misunderstood my intent.
I have no desire to affect what or how you post.

I never implied that your example was illogical/irrational. I stated that you used an exaggerated example (to which you agreed) to make to point that my idea was illogical/irrational. Make sense?.

Completely. I apologize for taking offense at your response I took it that you were attacking my post. My mistake.

 

[MiamiBeach]

Everyone keeps saying Disney won't care if they lose some repeat visitors, as long as attendance increases. I wonder if that's true. Disney seems to be on a crusade to attract EVERYONE to the world and keep them in it.

I can't quite define why we go back as often as we do. We don't necessarily go to WDW to dine and yet the only thing we really splurge on consistently are the restaurants (sometimes we'll spring for a suite or a day at the spa, but only sometimes). We don't spend all that much time in the parks, but we never leave The World. So while it FEELS intangible, for us the restaurant experience has got to be a pretty big part of the "we should go back to DisneyWorld this fall" thought that occurs six months after our last visit.

Back in the days when the food was all fried and wretched, the gap between our trips was much longer than in recent years. I'm really worried our upcoming visit will be affected by a negative restaurant experience. Not sure how Disney would know if my middle-aged husband and I took a 5-year hiatus instead of a 1 year break between trips. But I do know they seem to want our money -- they certainly make an aggressive pitch for it all the time. Eisner built all those deluxe hotels to drag us back to WDW and it worked! Would they really throw us out with the bath water now?

 

[honeymo78]

Just as an fyi - it looks like disney has released an update to the 2007 restaurant locations for DDP, premium and platinum plans. Again there are several restaurants available on prem and plat that aren't on DDP such as RFC, Fultons, and Portobellos. There may be more but I just can't remember this early in the morning.

 

[jodifla]

Everyone keeps saying Disney won't care if they lose some repeat visitors, as long as attendance increases. I wonder if that's true. Disney seems to be on a crusade to attract EVERYONE to the world and keep them in it.

I can't quite define why we go back as often as we do. We don't necessarily go to WDW to dine and yet the only thing we really splurge on consistently are the restaurants (sometimes we'll spring for a suite or a day at the spa, but only sometimes). We don't spend all that much time in the parks, but we never leave The World. So while it FEELS intangible, for us the restaurant experience has got to be a pretty big part of the "we should go back to DisneyWorld this fall" thought that occurs six months after our last visit.

Back in the days when the food was all fried and wretched, the gap between our trips was much longer than in recent years. I'm really worried our upcoming visit will be affected by a negative restaurant experience. Not sure how Disney would know if my middle-aged husband and I took a 5-year hiatus instead of a 1 year break between trips. But I do know they seem to want our money -- they certainly make an aggressive pitch for it all the time. Eisner built all those deluxe hotels to drag us back to WDW and it worked! Would they really throw us out with the bath water now?

Well put! Lots of new visitors just don't get it....they don't have the historical perspective.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

Miami Beach, I agree as well...

It WILL all come home to roost eventually, the question is when they need the demographic they are currently disenfranchising will we be there to help? I know we've reduced our AP's from Premium to Seasonal Resident this year (it just got tooooo expensive) and purchased the two year (for the price of one) at Universal just for the diversity (and the restautrants at Universal are worth going to and City Walk is better than DTD). Further, I'm getting rid of my Disney Visa for a more lucrative payback since my only use for my Disney reward dollars WERE the restaurants and we've just reduced our Disney dining so much that it doesn't make sense to keep the card.

Disney had us lock stock and barrel. We'd spend thousands upon thousands at WDW each year, we even ventured to DL twice we were such Disney nuts, but honestly I'm not feeling the love anymore. It seems more and more like a marketed corporation than a company built on unique ideals and methodology.

Perhaps they'll wake up but I don't think it'll happen soon. Igernazation is taking hold, IMO.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Everyone keeps saying Disney won't care if they lose some repeat visitors, as long as attendance increases. I wonder if that's true. Disney seems to be on a crusade to attract EVERYONE to the world and keep them in it.

I can't quite define why we go back as often as we do. We don't necessarily go to WDW to dine and yet the only thing we really splurge on consistently are the restaurants (sometimes we'll spring for a suite or a day at the spa, but only sometimes). We don't spend all that much time in the parks, but we never leave The World. So while it FEELS intangible, for us the restaurant experience has got to be a pretty big part of the "we should go back to DisneyWorld this fall" thought that occurs six months after our last visit.

Back in the days when the food was all fried and wretched, the gap between our trips was much longer than in recent years. I'm really worried our upcoming visit will be affected by a negative restaurant experience. Not sure how Disney would know if my middle-aged husband and I took a 5-year hiatus instead of a 1 year break between trips. But I do know they seem to want our money -- they certainly make an aggressive pitch for it all the time. Eisner built all those deluxe hotels to drag us back to WDW and it worked! Would they really throw us out with the bath water now?

Good point. Disney won't be able to sustain profits if long time fans keep drifting away. I am sure that there are large amounts of locals, annual passholders, etc. that increase Disney profits and financially speaking, Disney could not afford to alienate them all. The question is, will those locals and annual passholders drift away or not?

 

[mickaholic4077]

I don't think I'll drift away,but I find myself going less and less.

 

[yaksack]

When we were there last week it did seem like some things were lacking. For example - 1. We stayed at the VWL and from the time we got there until the time we left, there was a large sheet of plastic in the bushes (maybe a big hefty bag?). How many CMs walked by it and did nothing? I know that it may not be someones job to remove it (lugguge guy for example) but he could have told the correct person.
2. My DW took our DD6 on Splash Mountain. When they were gone for 30 mins (using fastpass) we got worried. It turned out they were on the ride when it broke down. 45 mins to an hour later they came out. My wife said they were stuck and cast members provided them with no answeres about the situation, but did give them a free fast pass. We were livid. Why? We understand things do go wrong. Our problem was that no one gave the people on the ride answers, for the most part the CMs walked by the guests qucikly and simply ignored them. Then we looked at the fastpass, which had an expiration date date of 10/29/06. Great, no problem, use it the same day right? Sorry but we were there 11/4-11/11/06.

 

[SandraVB79]

I would LOVE to see 2 seperate menus, 1 for OOP & 1 for DDP. It'll never happen, but it would be fair.

This is what, in a way, happens at Disneyland Resort Paris. They don't have the DDP as it exists in WDW, but you can prepay vouchers for your meals at the TS restaurants (excl. breakfast). Depending on the kind of vouchers you bought (menu gourmet, menu discovery, ...) you have a list of restaurants to choose from. In those restaurants, you have a fixed-but-you-can-still-choose-menu. You can for example choose between 4 appetizers, 3 entrees and 4 desserts. The price of your voucher is lower than if you had to pay for each plate separately. Next to that, the restaurants still have other options available for those that do not have the vouchers/ do not wish to eat the set menu.

ETA: now I'm going to continue reading on page 3

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

This is what, in a way, happens at Disneyland Resort Paris. They don't have the DDP as it exists in WDW, but you can prepay vouchers for your meals at the TS restaurants (excl. breakfast). Depending on the kind of vouchers you bought (menu gourmet, menu discovery, ...) you have a list of restaurants to choose from. In those restaurants, you have a fixed-but-you-can-still-choose-menu. You can for example choose between 4 appetizers, 3 entrees and 4 desserts. The price of your voucher is lower than if you had to pay for each plate separately. Next to that, the restaurants still have other options available for those that do not have the vouchers/ do not wish to eat the set menu.

ETA: now I'm going to continue reading on page 3

This sounds much fairer.

 

[deltachi8]

Good point. Disney won't be able to sustain profits if long time fans keep drifting away. I am sure that there are large amounts of locals, annual passholders, etc. that increase Disney profits and financially speaking, Disney could not afford to alienate them all. The question is, will those locals and annual passholders drift away or not?

Revenue is up, occupancy is up, per guest spending is up.

 

[kvogel11202]

This sounds much fairer.

Then you start the whole "just because you pay more doesn't make you better than me " debate. It happens now with the Deluxe. Mod and Value resort debates. Why should only the wealthy get better food options or more choice ect... I can see why it would work out on some level, and I have no problem with paying ore for a better meal, but it would drive many (especially on these boards) crazy!

 

[Lewisc]

The issue has nothing to do with people being wealthy or being willing to pay more. The issue is Disney decided the dining plan is easier to market, and will have fewer complaints, if there are virtually no menu restrictions. "Foodies" have the option of going to alternate restaurants. Customers will disagree on how many entrées can be subject to a surcharge before the plan becomes unfair, or at least not worth it. Subjecting one menu item to a surcharge sounds like a fair compromise to me. Unfortunately that may give Disney more trouble that it's worth. "Foodies" may not get enough to make them happy and dining guests will complain.

A local restaurant has a Friday night special. The menu says "any appetizer any entrée special dessert" Nevertheless some of the menu items have an * with an up charge. It got to the point where almost half the items have an *. I didn't bother debating the point with the restaurant although the menu is at best misleading. I just don't bother dining there anymore. Disney is doing great with the dining plan. Guests are pre-paying for their meals. Probably eating more meals on site then without the plan. Anything that makes the plan less attractive to guests is bad for Disney.

Then you start the whole "just because you pay more doesn't make you better than me " debate. It happens now with the Deluxe. Mod and Value resort debates. Why should only the wealthy get better food options or more choice ect... I can see why it would work out on some level, and I have no problem with paying ore for a better meal, but it would drive many (especially on these boards) crazy!

 

[kvogel11202]

The issue has nothing to do with people being wealthy or being willing to pay more. The issue is Disney decided the dining plan is easier to market, and will have fewer complaints, if there are virtually no menu restrictions. "Foodies" have the option of going to alternate restaurants. Customers will disagree on how many entrées can be subject to a surcharge before the plan becomes unfair, or at least not worth it. Subjecting one menu item to a surcharge sounds like a fair compromise to me. Unfortunately that may give Disney more trouble that it's worth. "Foodies" may not get enough to make them happy and dining guests will complain.

A local restaurant has a Friday night special. The menu says "any appetizer any entrée special dessert" Nevertheless some of the menu items have an * with an up charge. It got to the point where almost half the items have an *. I didn't bother debating the point with the restaurant although the menu is at best misleading. I just don't bother dining there anymore. Disney is doing great with the dining plan. Guests are pre-paying for their meals. Probably eating more meals on site then without the plan. Anything that makes the plan less attractive to guests is bad for Disney.

Don't get me wrong, I love the dining plan, just got back from 7 days of dining plan meals last week, I'm still full. I was simply pointing out that there is a segment out there who are very sensative about price vs services issues. It doesn't matter what income bracket you are in, I'm by no means wealthy and I prefer Deluxe resorts, my folks have friends who are extremely wealthy and they never stay onsite because they think Disney charges too much! I love the DDP, and we have at least one TS meal a day, sometimes 2. We like to linger over a good meal, therefore dining is an important part of our experience. Not so for some people. I didn't feel like things were bad when we were there, nor do I see a decline in the food. A change yes- but I don't mind change. Some people HATE change of any kind (my youngest son for one) and I can see where it would bother them. Not criticizing anyone, just haven't really seen enough to be bothered by yet.

 

[kvogel11202]

When we were there last week it did seem like some things were lacking. For example - 1. We stayed at the VWL and from the time we got there until the time we left, there was a large sheet of plastic in the bushes (maybe a big hefty bag?). How many CMs walked by it and did nothing? I know that it may not be someones job to remove it (lugguge guy for example) but he could have told the correct person.
2. My DW took our DD6 on Splash Mountain. When they were gone for 30 mins (using fastpass) we got worried. It turned out they were on the ride when it broke down. 45 mins to an hour later they came out. My wife said they were stuck and cast members provided them with no answeres about the situation, but did give them a free fast pass. We were livid. Why? We understand things do go wrong. Our problem was that no one gave the people on the ride answers, for the most part the CMs walked by the guests qucikly and simply ignored them. Then we looked at the fastpass, which had an expiration date date of 10/29/06. Great, no problem, use it the same day right? Sorry but we were there 11/4-11/11/06.

How is this related to the Dining Plan? I think I'm missing the point? Not being sarcastic or rude, just wondering....

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

"Revenue is up, occupancy is up, per guest spending is up."

Sadly magic (exceeding expectations), effort, innovation and quality are down.

You can argue on busines principals all day and you'll be absolutely correct...If your only hope is that Disney be just another company...That isn't my Disney though.

 

[jodifla]

"Revenue is up, occupancy is up, per guest spending is up."

Sadly magic (exceeding expectations), effort, innovation and quality are down.

You can argue on busines principals all day and you'll be absolutely correct...If your only hope is that Disney be just another company...That isn't my Disney though.

Boy, AMEN to that.

 

[TinkerbellMama]

Rock on Tinkerbellmama....We just got back, had at least one- sometimes 2 TS meals a day (yes we were on DDP- still worked out for us) and we had wonderful meals each time- my kids liked the new menu and event he older ones a couple times got food off the kids menu. Healthy options are a good thing. And they didn't have the same meal every night, nor did they complain about the quality of the food.

Thanks for the support, lol!
I seriously don't understand all the fuss about the healthier options being a problem. I know, I know...I don't have a child who will ONLY eat chicken nuggets or greasy pizza, so I can't fully understand where those people are coming from. I do realize that would be a HUGE problem for their families if those items were not offered on the new menus. However, I stand by my assertion that MOST kids who refuse to eat anything healthy/new are just being stubborn and should be coaxed (not forced!) to try something more nutritious. My child would love to play in the street all day, but I just can't let him, because it's too dangerous. I know not everyone views food choices in the same light, but I definitely do. A deep-fried nugget once in a while won't kill a child, no (although we still avoid them unless they are made from whole ingredients)...but eating them everyday throughout childhood WILL cause a decline in health (even if very slight). Those are just my views on the matter. YMMV.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

"Revenue is up, occupancy is up, per guest spending is up."

Sadly magic (exceeding expectations), effort, innovation and quality are down.

You can argue on busines principals all day and you'll be absolutely correct...If your only hope is that Disney be just another company...That isn't my Disney though.

I'd applaud that if it didn't make me so sad. It's absolutely true.

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

Then you start the whole "just because you pay more doesn't make you better than me " debate. It happens now with the Deluxe. Mod and Value resort debates. Why should only the wealthy get better food options or more choice ect... I can see why it would work out on some level, and I have no problem with paying ore for a better meal, but it would drive many (especially on these boards) crazy!

This is the way our world works though. Everyone doesn't work all month and on the first get a coupon for grocery credits and gas credits and mortgage/rent credits and we all call it even. We get a check based on how much we worked and at what job and we can buy more the more we get paid.

Only in a theoretical Communist society would everyone live equally despite amount of income. Paying more for something doesn't mean I"m "better" but it does mean I deserve to get more. I paid $3000.00 for my car. Do I expect to get the same out of it that I would get out of a $50,000 new car? Of course not.

I work four jobs to save money for my Disney trips and my future. I most certainly do deserve to get what I get for my money. I think many people are underpaid and undervalued but on the other hand, which is a separate subject. (Many people should earn more for what they do) but the person who works several jobs and budgets carefully, most certainly does deserve more than the person who works only part time.

Salary isn't a measure of a person's worth. However, the amount we make and how we choose to spend it does determine our lifestyle. People seem to confuse this sometimes. They think the more things they have, the "better" they are. That's why people are in debt to create a certain image of their lifestyles and live above their means. The people at the Poly aren't "better" than the people at "Pop". I've stayed at both! But, I expected more when I paid quadruple for the Poly. I've eaten at Denny's and at Emeril's and I certainly didn't expect to receive the same meal. A pound of lobster will always cost more than a pound of pasta. You get what you pay for. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

I think the idea to have tiered dining options is a good one. Some people are vegetarians. They won't "maximize their credits" eating that way, right? Some kids only eat plain pasta or chicken nuggets. They would have it cheaper paying just for that, right? Some people are throwing half their food away because they eat so little. That's a waste of the chef's time, a waste of money and a waste of our natural resources. Everyone doesn't eat the same way and different options would make the current plan fairer than the current way it is structured.