Quotable Disney

Yoho, I too agree with "the" statement in question & DisDuck speaks to my current state of mind regarding Eisner to a "T."

If we get any consensus from the other carpoolers we may ha ve a story for Jim Hill!;)
:smooth: :smooth: :bounce: :smooth: :smooth:
 
I was going back to old posts I made on radp, this is something I said 3 years ago, and I still think it's true...
it was in a topic about the differences between Walt and Eisner.

****

I don't think the principles have been altered, just that Eisner's order of priorities is different from Walt/Roy priorities or the priority of those running the company after the death's of Walt/Roy and pre-Eisner. A simple list of priorities would include:

Doing what I want (I meaning the head of the company)
Doing what guests want
Doing what Walt would want
Making Money

One could say that in the 70's the #1 priority was doing what Walt wanted, Eisner's #1 priority is obviously something different. So I guess what I'm basically trying to say, is that if Walt and Eisner made a list of all the things they thought were important, (show, quality, guest satisfaction, profit, etc.), Walt and Eisner's list would be more or less identical, but if they were asked to rank each item from most important to least important the list would be different.

*****

My 2001 addition, is that this priority order greatly affects the choice of projects, direction or "angles" and that because the order of priorities for the two men are arranged differently, some "angles" that Eisner has chosen wouldn't be the same ones that Walt chose and vice versa.

And if we, the fans were to use our own priority lists we would find that some of Eisner's or Walt's "angles" do not fit with our priorities and thus we dislike the outcome, sometimes fervently.
 
... Indeed!! Captain, my man! You bust me up!! ;)


There is a group that believe that Eisner has an ulterior motive (other than business) behind each of his decisions and another group which don't. I know where I stand.
I hope you don't put me in that first category Mr. Duck! I've never believed in that scenario at all. No! My take is completely different. And rather simple:

He's just inept!! ;)
 
Oh trust me Landbaron, we know your stand, (although you'll slum with the others every now and then)

Disduck has stated 2 positions, you could from both positions conclude that Disney is in trouble. One however presumes something which in the early years of Eisner was shown not to be true.
 

Great post Hopemax. I don't know what Ei$ner's priorities were/are. But I can definitively tell you what Walt's were. You can find them in Traditions:

1- Safety
2- Courtesy
3- SHOW!!
4- Efficiency

Notice that the "SHOW" outranks efficiency. It is more important. Efficiency as in profit. Efficiency as in spending enough to put on a proper "SHOW" (read: maintenance at night, enough maintenance to replace torn srims on CoP, attractions that dazzle, etc.). Efficiency as in worrying about the "SHOW" before the bottom line!!

Thanks for reminding me of one of my on-going themes!!:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
 
The difference – Walt was a creator and saw the company as a vehicle to build what he imagined. Eisner is a manager who uses the company to sell what others create, pocketing the difference for the stockholders (and himself).

Yes, Eisner is a better businessman than Walt was. But then again, I know that a balance sheet will never make my children laugh and cry like ‘Bambi’ did. I’ll gladly put up with the occasional business lapse to bring a child wonder, but I can not excuse disappointing a child to fatten stock options.


(And Sir Landbaron – you have no idea how right you are).
 
I'm willing to accept that Eisner has lost that goal that makes Walt different. I'm not willing to accept that there was any actual nefarious motive behind that change.
We're pretty much on the same page, then.

I don't want to get rid of Eisner because he's evil, I want to get rid of him because he's making decisions that I believe will hurt Disney; that I believe _have_ hurt Disney.

Diversification in and of itself is spiffy, just make it a Disney-quality endeavor (like we spoke of when we got talking about the sports teams). It appears to me that you concentrated on the "diversification" portion of the original comment, while I was concentrating on the "angle" and CC's followup "doing whatever they must" quote, which ended up looking to me like an Eisner justification. Our points kinda barrel-rolled past each other in flight.

Jeff

PS to DisDuck - actually, in a manner of speaking, it was _Walt_ that had an ulterior motive. As businessmen, both Walt and Eisner have the "make money" goal on the list somewhere, purt' near the top. It was Walt who had the vast "amaze and delight the guest" conspiracy going. I agree we're all going to have to wait and see, I simply don't have as much hope that Eisner will reverse the trend as you seem to. I don't think Eisner will ever join the "amaze and delight" conspiracy.
 
Landbaron, I like your creative definitions for efficency.
To my mind, you've turned that word 180 degrees around to prove a point.


In short the notion that efficiency as used in Walt DISNEYLAND focus has little or nothing to do with Spending money on maintainence or Show. It has to do with making the SHOW operate as smoothly and effortlessly as possible.

Smooth and effortless tend to translate into higher profits, but not as directly as you would try to insinuate.

In essence what it says is, not being able to do the SHOW efficently is no excuse for not doing the show at all.
Profit and costs are 2nd order relationships to this, not direct relationships.


Please, I know you are quite cabable of making your point with out making the hard working people of Merriam-Webster cry. :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:


As to Another Voice, I agree with your first paragraph.

Please explain who and how ANYONE, Of any Time could take Someone elses baby As Disney Corp was to Walt. And make it there own baby.

Your comments are noted, but really add no Value, Not Eisner, Not NOBODY could be a New Walt for the Disney company. It simply isn't possible.

Its the same reason Apple stagnated without Jobs (not that he's all the brilliant a CEO, but it shows what can happen when the goals of a company are embodied so completely in its founder.


I’ll gladly put up with the occasional business lapse to bring a child wonder, but I can not excuse disappointing a child to fatten stock options.

I also agree here, which is why I'm mad at Eisner RIGHT NOW. But, I don't think the goal was to dissappoint children was it? I'm sure sleeping beauty's goal was not to dissappoint children, yet the box office tells the tale does it not?
 
...Landbaron reminded me of one of my favorite Walt stories, and for once, it's actually on topic.

Walt's fascination with trains is well documented, and he was building a small ridable railroad in his backyard. A workman, upon seeing the plans, suggested that a certain section of track be altered to better fit the existing landscape. It would be cheaper that way.

Walt's response was approximately "It would be cheaper not to built the damn thing at all."

If primary goal going into the project is to save money, just don't even bother.

Jeff
 
I love that quote.

and of course, were it not for that model railroad, there would have been no Disneyland.
 
YoHo theorized:

>>>Not Eisner, Not NOBODY could be a New Walt for the Disney company. It simply isn't possible.

No. No. No. No. No. No. Mike could have. And there are others who would gladly switch places with Mike E for a lot less money.

I do not feel MikeE is evil. He is just not getting it. I read 'Work in Progress' twice (I own it -- please no flames Landbaron ;) ). I have read 'Storming the Kingdom.'

Eisner's priorities seem to have switched from creation of magic to creation of profit, and pleasing the street.

Don't believe me? Compare EuroDisneland (DLP) to California MisAdventure. Men of vision like Eddie Sotto have shown that magic can still be made. No matter how big this company gets.

You can't excuse some of things being done at WDW just because of the company's size. Like when it comes to doing maintenace at the park during the daytime? I saw the castle forecourt being painted during Mardi Gras, and it struck me as something unusual. It wasn't till I got home that I realized that I had never before seen work done ON STAGE before. Come on. Do that after hours. Have some company pride.

This company was built *in the details*. Excellence is in the details. And the reason I'm riding #3 (but hoping to go to #2) is because this company is not getting the details.
 
Examples of Efficiency

Landbaron, I like your creative definitions for efficency. To my mind, you've turned that word 180 degrees around to prove a point.
I disagree.

In short the notion that efficiency as used in Walt DISNEYLAND focus has little or nothing to do with Spending money on maintenance or Show.
I could not possibly disagree more!!

It has to do with making the SHOW operate as smoothly and effortlessly as possible.
Effort has nothing to with it! Tell me, is it more efficient to have workmen paint Tomorrowland during regular business hours? Is it more efficient to delay maintenance in accordance to material function as opposed to cosmetic requirements? Obviously the answer is YES!! So any business concern would practice this normal, accepted strategy. HOWEVER!!! Walt said, wait a minute!! That may be the most "efficient" way to conduct any other business, but what does that do to the "SHOW"? Why, it makes a bad SHOW!! So, we don't do it!! We find a way around it!! And if that means, "wasting"(?) money, paying premium pay to painters so that they paint at night, then that was the way it had to be. IN ORDER TO INSURE A GOOD SHOW!!!!

And what about the surfaces those painters are painting? Certainly a heck of a lot of paint can wear and chip away before any serious structural damage occurs. So what if it's cosmetically apparent? But Walt didn't like that idea, did he? And why? Come on… Guess!! YES!! That's right!! BAD SHOW!!! So we need to paint much more often than your normal business would. And at night!! Talk about inefficient!!!
Smooth and effortless tend to translate into higher profits, but not as directly as you would try to insinuate.
What!!??
In essence what it says is, not being able to do the SHOW efficiently is no excuse for not doing the show at all.
So we should do an inefficient SHOW if an efficient one isn't available? If that's what you're saying reread JeffJewell's little Walt story. It's one of my favorites and I've used it often. If it's not what you're talking about then… I'm sorry YoHo, I'm really not trying to give you a hard time, but quite frankly I have no idea what you are talking about!! Please rephrase.
I also agree here, which is why I'm mad at Eisner RIGHT NOW. But, I don't think the goal was to dissappoint children was it?
Did it ever occur to you that he never even consider the child? In a way, that's worse.
 
airlarry, my point which you unwittingly clarified, was the no matter how much Eisner digs in to the meat of Disney, Ultimatly, he cannot run Walt's company the way Walt did, because it is Walt's company. Unless he creates Eisner Corp. and builds Eisnerworld, he will never truely embody everything the way Walt did and does. And that's why its harder for him, or anyone to focus. An example, While Walt relied on his bevy of Imagineers to turn his ideas (for his back yard railroad, to his early plans for E.P.C.O.T.) into reality, he was ultimatly the creative force behind it. There was no Jeffery Katzenberg sheperding Animation, Walt did that. Walt took a far more immediate interest then anyone who isn't Walt could.

I'm not questioning abilities, merely saying that some things simply aren't possible.

Now sure, I may think I could do it, you may think you could do it. But, then you'd be sitting there, behind the Giant Dopey figurine (I don't remember which one the office is really behind, but Dopey seems funniest) and you realize that you have one of the worlds strongest brands under your complete control, and then you think Wow, If I make a wrong move, Landbaron's gonna drive down from Chicago and throttle me. Plus all those investors will hang me at the next board meeting if they don't see a profit.....Yadda Yadda, they find you curled up in a ball in the broom closet crying.

Make no mistake, Eisner's job isn't easy I suspect there are few people that could be both as hands on and as savvy as Walt, and those people want to make their own companies, not run Disney.
 
Okay, Yoho, I would take on that challenge. Not running the company of course but...

if all Disney fans bought 10 more shares of stock, pooled them together, and elected someone like Eddie Sotto to run the company, with John Lassiter running Feature Animation, and Paul Pressler running merchandising, and Cynthia Harris getting free rein to run theme parks....

You get my drift. You might not like my names...but there are people out there who care enough about the Disney name that they would do things the right way.

How do I know? Read Sotto's comments on the imagineer web site. Read the Doobie's interviews (at www.laughingplace.com) with the Sherman Brothers to find out the secret of Walt's success with music and what happened after he died. Read the mistakes Mike E admits to making at DLP, and mistakes he almost made. Read how John Lassiter get started in this whole business at Cal Arts and with Disney at the www.pixar.com web site.

MichaelE is not the only girl at this dance, I promise you.
 
Landbaron, I said that Efficiency was not a synonym for profitability.


You are trying to say that Walt valued SHOW over cost and profitablility by pointing to the fact that Efficiency is ranked lower then show. WHICH IS LUDICROUS, because Efficiency is not a Synonym for low cost and profitability.

You are supporting a valid argument with an invalid example. be thankful bicker isn't here.


You have given some lovely examples of aspects of Walt's Disney that valued Show over efficiency. That's great. All of which does nothing to prove your assertion. All you've done is proven that Walt practiced what he preached.


Some examples of efficiency in the parks.

Dual loading queues on the boat rides (small worl and PotC) which makes the line seem shorter.

Creative use of preshows to improve line managment. (see haunted mansion)
Combineing Park tickets on room keys to reduce guest problems and to simplify computer systems.

Recycling operations and Water reclimation.
The rotating schedule on which they paint so that things are repainted right before they start to look bad.


In Short, I don't disagree that Walt and Eisner may have different priority levels, but please don't support that idea non-sensicly.



Effort has nothing to with it! Tell me, is it more efficient to have workmen paint Tomorrowland during regular business hours? Is it more efficient to delay maintenance in accordance to material function as opposed to cosmetic requirements? Obviously the answer is YES!! So any business concern would practice this normal, accepted strategy. HOWEVER!!! Walt said, wait a minute!! That may be the most "efficient" way to conduct any other business, but what does that do to the "SHOW"? Why, it makes a bad SHOW!! So, we don't do it!! We find a way around it!! And if that means, "wasting"(?) money, paying premium pay to painters so that they paint at night, then that was the way it had to be. IN ORDER TO INSURE A GOOD SHOW!!!!


I have to go back to this, First of all, you imply that many of the above statements such as when and how often they paint are examples of inefficiency, that is ludicrous, painting after hours when the park is EMPTY is exremely efficient. Painting on a rotating basis regardless of whether or not the surface needs it prevents both unsiightly damage and maintains the health of the surface which is more efficient then fixing damaged surfaces.

They also cost more, that in no way makes them less efficient.

A non Disney example. It is possible for me to build an automobile engine that costs lets say $100 in parts. Does it being so cheap make burn gas efficiently? NO, Lets say I place this $100 motor in a stretch limo, Simply, because its cheaper, does it make the limo an efficient car to operate.

What about the costs of refueling the inefficient beast, or the inability to pass on the highway, because its a weak performer.


As I said, Lower costs and higher profits are derivatives of Efficiency, but they are not synonyms.

Your argument made no sense to me.
 
Airlarry, do you think those people really, really want to be in charge of such a huge organization that they have no inherent emotional stake in? Oh sure they love Disney, but do they love it like Walt did?



Landbaron, well if we're missunderstanding each other, then we better set each other straight, because we nearly had a tiff there and I'd rather understand and be proven wrong then not understand (or not be understood)
 
YoHo questioned:
>>>Airlarry, do you think those people really, really want to be in charge of such a huge organization that they have no inherent emotional stake in? Oh sure they love Disney, but do they love it like Walt did
>>>>

Who might we be talking about? All of the people I mentioned, save Pressler ;) eh Baron, are closet Disn-oids. Lassiter was Cal Arts second student (remember it was the Disney co. that lobbied for and supported the the program in Animation arts) and worked for a time on actual Disney animation features.

Eddie Sotto? Cynthia Harris? These are both people with a demonstrated love of all things Disney. Heck Eddie has said so much himself. If you read between the lines, he left to 'consult' because of the same disatisfaction that forced the Sherman Brothers out and the same dissatisfaction spelled out by Roy.

I am not sure who you are talking about?
 
... In one thread!!! How does he do it?:bounce:



Landbaron, well if we're misunderstanding each other, then we better set each other straight, because we nearly had a tiff there and I'd rather understand and be proven wrong then not understand (or not be understood)
Not at all, my friend YoHo!! We could never have a tiff! A spat perhaps. A heated word here or there. But never, never a tiff! Truth be told I was leaving work, looking forward to an hour or so on the Kennedy and you mentioned my friendly adversary bicker. So with what struck me as appropriate humor, I tried to answer like he would. I think I succeeded. ;)


Anyway, now that I am home I have a little time. So, let’s look at the issue in question. Someone posed the concept, “What was important to Walt vs. what was important to Ei$ner”.

I have no idea about Ei$ner, but I think I know enough about Walt to further the theory that the following four items were at least important enough to him to be included (even prominent) in Traditions. They are (in order):

1- Safety
2- Courtesy
3- SHOW
4- Efficiency

Now, my only point was that Walt specifically arranged those four in that particular order. Why? Because let’s face it, if someone was about to lose life or limb at WDW, Efficiency goes right out the window. So does the SHOW and courtesy! And there may be times when courtesy is simply the better option over keeping up the pretense of the SHOW. In other words, the SHOW, for example, is the most important thing at WDW, except when it comes to being courteous or when it involves safety. Still with me?

Now. To me, taking the above paragraph and the four tenets in their particular order, logic dictates that the same must hold true for #4. That is to say that Disney must maintain the most efficient operation possible. UNLESS that efficiency interferes with the previous three! (Asimov’s three rules of robotics!! A hierarchy kind of thing.) Let’s leave the realistic and specific examples out of it. I get sidetracked easily and we start arguing the particulars rather than the concept. So, generally speaking, anything that furthers high efficiency is very welcome within the Disney organization. Most of your examples are perfect within that context. And (this is the really important bit) in so far as they really compliment the previous law (for lack of a better word) and don’t affect the first two at all, they are accepted with opened arms by the Walt philosophy. HOWEVER, there are certain aspects of business efficiency and day-to-day operations of a theme park that might not be so lucky.

Common sense tells you that you can’t mess with safety, so it’s taken for granted. But suppose it was found that by rerouting the cue for Splash Mountain you could save the company mega-bucks and cut the wait time down for the guest to less than half (I don’t know how just bear with me). But in order to accomplish this, the guest would have to walk though the flume at the load area, between the boats!! (DON’T ASK, it’s supposed to be preposterous!) Anyway, that wouldn’t work would it? Why? (I mean other than common sense.) Well, it’s not very courteous to have the guest’s legs get soaked trudging through knee-deep water. And after the first few guests crossed over, the inevitable bone crushing accident would occur shutting the ride down for at least an hour!!! ;)

I’m just saying that the first two tenets, most of the time, are so apparent, so taken for granted, that we instinctively avoid any conflict with them. (That's why the example had to be outlandish). The SHOW is a much more gray area. And efficiency can definitely mean what you referred to. And as far as most of your examples are concerned, they go hand in hand with the previous three tenets. But efficiency can and often does (just ask bicker) involve costs, value and profits. And according the four laws of Disneydom this fourth law is very important. Out of all the words in the dictionary only four are listed. And efficiency is included among them. It seems they like efficiency very, very much. Very important to Walt and very important to the company. But not as important as Safety. Not as important as courtesy. And not as important as the SHOW!!

One final thought. I wrote the piece about what we buy from Disney after you put me on the scent. I think it adequately describes just what the product of Disney is. Therefore, NOTHING should interfere with the delivery of that product (except of course the first two). It comes before EVERYTHING (except of course the first two). That, in a nutshell, is the “Walt philosophy” I’m always on about. The SHOW is the most important thing they have to offer (except of course the first two). Now that the SHOW knows it’s proper place. It’s time that efficiency learned its place as well. Ei$ner has let it go before SHOW way too often lately.!!

Am I a little clearer?
 
Landbaron, Thankyou for clarifying. As I think you know, my beef was with your examples, and your use of the term. Yes, efficiency can refer to money matters, but only in a broad sense. An efficient company as opposed to a bloated one. The trick with Efficiency is that, destroying your product, or eating at your customer base is enherently inefficient, its also hard to recover from. Your examples, or I should say the opposite of your examples, IE, not doing maitainence at night, not painting everything on a revolving basis, not Keeping the show more important could have a major impact on the bottom line. So in essence, Eisner et al did NOT put efficiency above Show, they through both out the window. Not intentionally, nobody ever does this kind of foolishness intentionally, but they sure enough did it.

Here's an outside example that's pretty absurd Lets take my Limo with the $100 engine, You know, I could save a lot of money if I didn't put any tires on it. Yeah, that would be real efficient and streamlining. It would lower costs.....Oh, but wait, nobody would buy my car. Gee, it wouldn't be efficient tio build a low cost car that nobody buys.


Airlarry, Being a Disneyfile is not enough, you need to be Disney. Its possible Roy E. could do it, if he had the desire, but even he doesn't really have all it takes. Remember, Eisner isn't the first post Walt CEO, and nobody has done any better overall (they had there successes, but globally, they didn't truely succeed) So, A Disney pedigree isn't enough.

As to how I can handle two at once, Its called avoiding actual work at all costs. :)
 















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