Questions about joining a workers' union...

[Mrs. Charming]

There's a lot of hubub going on at DH's work about going union. They haven't gotten a raise in 2 years, and DH is doing the job of probably 3 employees, and there's no sign of a raise in sight. The benefits are OK, they stopped matching his 401K, but the poor guy is getting worked to the bone, and the GM just doesn't seem to give a hoot, he's "too busy" all the time. (Too busy golfing, :cough cough: )

With all the union talk, the pay would get better, he'd have to pay less for benefits. However, the Assistant Mgr is telling the guys that if they go union, they'll close the branch. Is that legal? Can they (headquarters) do that? The union talks are already in the works, and DH heard it's illegal to fire someone because they're going to go union once the talks are in progress. The other nearby branches are union, they're not closed, but this is a smaller branch. (It was bigger, but they sold slightly different products, and the economy yadda yadda...)

Does anyone know how this works? I've been in a union before, but it was mandatory for the job, and it didn't change anything except for a few bucks a week out of my paycheck.

 

[Bren's Mom]

Keep in mind that there is NO guarantee that the pay will get better nor that the benefits would be less expensive. And if that happens PLUS they're taking out union dues...they may end up with a loss in the end.

As for firings, closing a branch isn't the same as firing people. It's closing a branch and laying off. And, yes, they can still fire someone during the union process IF they have cause...but it cannot be for union reasons and the company better be sure they have PROOF of the reason for firing and that they've given the same 'punishment' for similar offenses before or they might find themselves in a world of trouble.

A union can be good, but isn't always. It should be considered carefully.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

In the area we live, Union jobs are like Gold. Some are better than others tho. My husband left one union job of 20 years, bc another union job started him at a higher salary. He would never in his life considered leaving the first job for a non-union one. Ever. We have protection and he has a pension he will receive from the first job and another building with this one. He makes a better salary than the comparable jobs that are not union, etc., etc. even the first job he had left he did.

 

[chicagodisneyfan]

My husband is in a union and it has been a great 18 years.

He has had raises every year, dollar for dollar match on 401k up to 7%, generous health benefits and insurance all of which costs only $30 a month.

Plus he has job protection (seniority) and does not have to deal with horrible bosses (unlike others on the DIS).

Really have no complaints.

 

[bettymae1121]

It depends a lot too on the quality of the union. My DH's job was union back before he became low level management, and the union was just about useless. The best I could say for them is they went to bat for an employee when the Company tried to fire them for a BS reason, but beyond that it was a joke. They traded a guarantee no increase in health insurance costs to emplyees for a 5% raise over three years. I warned DH that they'd give the raise and then raise benifit costs to wipe out whatever raise was given, and sure enough that's exactly what happened. They raised the health care cost to employees higher than what the raise was, so in the long run they lost out. That's just one example in how pathetic DH's union was.

Now, that said there are some quality unions out there that look at the whole picture and do their best for their members, I'm not painting all of them, or even most of them, with the same brush. But in your shoes I'd try to check the union out a bit, maybe talk with some rank-and-file members to see what they think. You could be trading one set of problems for another.

 

[MinnieGirl33]

However, the Assistant Mgr is telling the guys that if they go union, they'll close the branch. Is that legal? Can they (headquarters) do that?

Yes, unfortunately, it's legal. They would have to close the company down completely but could re-open after a certain amount of time. Not entirely sure how it works with branches of large companies. The Business Agent for the Union that is working with your company should be able to offer more specific info. Also, you can always pool resources with other employees to pay for a few hours with a labor attorney that might be willing to answer questions about laws of your state.

Is it worth it? Absolutely. Does the union do as much for you as you think they will or expect they will? Depends on the union.

 

[Tink888]

There's a lot of hubub going on at DH's work about going union. They haven't gotten a raise in 2 years, and DH is doing the job of probably 3 employees, and there's no sign of a raise in sight. The benefits are OK, they stopped matching his 401K, but the poor guy is getting worked to the bone, and the GM just doesn't seem to give a hoot, he's "too busy" all the time. (Too busy golfing, :cough cough: )

With all the union talk, the pay would get better, he'd have to pay less for benefits. However, the Assistant Mgr is telling the guys that if they go union, they'll close the branch. Is that legal? Can they (headquarters) do that? The union talks are already in the works, and DH heard it's illegal to fire someone because they're going to go union once the talks are in progress. The other nearby branches are union, they're not closed, but this is a smaller branch. (It was bigger, but they sold slightly different products, and the economy yadda yadda...)

Does anyone know how this works? I've been in a union before, but it was mandatory for the job, and it didn't change anything except for a few bucks a week out of my paycheck.

Yes they can and yes they do.

DH had 20 years in with a job that was union. Good union. Big union. Company closed (not related to union).

He is now in a non-union company and while the health benefits & vacation time isn't as good, they pay is much better . There are a lot of companies who don't want unions and while they can't interfere with workers who want to go union, they can absolutely close up shop if it happens.

Unions are great in that they usually provide better benefits packages and providing employees protection as far as wrongful termination.

However, Unions talk a real good talk but they CANNOT guarantee better wages or working conditions. They CANNOT keep a company from going out of business. And if and when a company does go under, they can't do a whole lot for you that you can do on your own through your state's labor dept. They'll promise the world but that fact of the matter is that they CAN'T guarantee much of anything.....not raises, not job security, not even that pensions will remain in tact.

How many employees are at your DH's company? Unions are a comfort in some ways because as they say, there is solidarity in numbers, and that's true. Also true that you no longer look out for your individual best interest. You are one vote. The union majority votes to strike, guess what, you're striking whether you want to and can afford to or not (there is no unemployment for striking and the stipend the union provides to striking workers doesn't kick in until you've been on strike for so many days).

Your DH needs to think long and hard before he decides, and make a decision that it's his individual best interest. Unions do not have the numbers, nor the strength and power that they once did and for all they say they can do, in the end, a company will do whatever it wants to. Make no mistake about it. We've lived it and we've seen both sides of the coin.

 

[tink_n_pooh]

Yes the company can certainly close the branch if they so desire. I personally am not a fan of unions at all. Properly run businesses and good workers do not need unions. Unions very often bring corruption and bullying getting much less work done and causing more problems than they cure or help with

 

[jlewisinsyr]

I think you need to look at the larger picture. What is the industry, what are the competive companies paying, experiencing in terms of growth and sales. Unfortunately, some financial issues will supercede what a person "wants". I'm not a big fan of unions of the present. I think they held a very valuable purpose during the early to mid 1900s, but since, have become bloated beasts in upon themselves, often with little interest in flexibility if it comes to reductions. I would be VERY hard pressed to ever join a company that had a union.

 

[Mrs. Charming]

It's such a hard decision. I don't think *hard* is the word for it. We've been mulling this over for a long time now, a few months at least, on top of this coming up last year. There are still SO many unknowns. The threat of the branch closing is HUGE... DH has the only income in our family. If our health insurance goes, we're up a creek, because I'm due in September. The guys (4) are meeting with a Union Rep on Monday, I have a whole list of questions on the fridge, I feel like I'm adding to it every half hour. The thing is, if DH decides not to do it, he can still be out-voted, and then they're union, and then the place shuts down. Ugh. I don't know if they're just trying to scare DH about the shutting down, or if they'll really do it. The management want to set up an off-site meeting.

Basically it's a large building supply company, it has branches in many states, over 100 branches total. There are 11 non-union branches, one of which is DH's location. The other semi-local locations are union.

The thing is, this came up last year. DH was pretty darn against it, but they're all just being treated like poop, they're overworked, and underpaid. DH is the "boss" and he gets paid the least.. figure that one out. It's not even a seniority thing! They all just feel taken advantage of, and rightfully so. I don't think DH would have stuck around if he wasn't supporting a family. At first, I was basically like, don't let greed get the best of us, but then there's a point of being a doormat. Might as well stamp "Welcome" on their foreheads.

I had DH read all of your responses, I hope you don't mind. I really appreciate all of your input and insights. I'm just scared out of my wits right now!

 

[Pluto 2]

im in a non union working in a factory. i love it. they take really good care of us so there is no reason for a union. it only takes a few people to go to a union to try to get a union in. this has happened a couple of times i been there in 17 years. the union never made it to a vote. they have to have a certain percentage of people send the card in or whatever to get to a vote.
unions can be good if your employer isnt doing the right thing. but remember you might not be getting pay raises or 401k match is because they cant afford it.if a union gets in they have to open the books up to the union. there is no law if the union gets in they can close the doors if thats what they want, but most likely its a scared tattic, but maybe not.

 

[MassJester]

I will disagree with some of my fellow posters to a certain extent.

Although a company, in many circumstances (but not all), may close an operation after a union election, threatening to do so during the organizing process is absolutely a complainable unfair labor practice as it violates section 7 of the National Labor Relations Act.

Now that said...

Promises of improved wages and benefits cannot be counted upon. Although the company may have to accept a union after a vote, there is absolutely no legal requirement that the company give in into any union demand ever. They are required to negotiate, but not compelled to agree. Any organizer that promises these things is not being honest, or is badly informed.

 

[Tink888]

It's such a hard decision. I don't think *hard* is the word for it. We've been mulling this over for a long time now, a few months at least, on top of this coming up last year. There are still SO many unknowns. The threat of the branch closing is HUGE... DH has the only income in our family. If our health insurance goes, we're up a creek, because I'm due in September. The guys (4) are meeting with a Union Rep on Monday, I have a whole list of questions on the fridge, I feel like I'm adding to it every half hour. The thing is, if DH decides not to do it, he can still be out-voted, and then they're union, and then the place shuts down. Ugh. I don't know if they're just trying to scare DH about the shutting down, or if they'll really do it. The management want to set up an off-site meeting.

Basically it's a large building supply company, it has branches in many states, over 100 branches total. There are 11 non-union branches, one of which is DH's location. The other semi-local locations are union.

The thing is, this came up last year. DH was pretty darn against it, but they're all just being treated like poop, they're overworked, and underpaid. DH is the "boss" and he gets paid the least.. figure that one out. It's not even a seniority thing! They all just feel taken advantage of, and rightfully so. I don't think DH would have stuck around if he wasn't supporting a family. At first, I was basically like, don't let greed get the best of us, but then there's a point of being a doormat. Might as well stamp "Welcome" on their foreheads.

I had DH read all of your responses, I hope you don't mind. I really appreciate all of your input and insights. I'm just scared out of my wits right now!

Am I reading that there are just four workers there? Also, you mentioned in your first post about not receiving raises for two years and the company no longer matching the 401K. With the tank of the economy starting in late 2008, do you think those things are a result of that, or does your DH feel the company is being stingy? If it's the economy, going union won't change things. I know how frustrating it is.

Also, how close are the other facilities the company owns. If they are close, and have the capacity to absorb production if they shut your DH's facility down, that a huge thing to take into consideration. It gives a lot of credibility to the threat of closing if he went union.

Has management tried talking to the workers about their grievances?

It's good that you have questions. It's a big decision and once it's done, it's done.

 

[sparklynails23]

They always threaten to close. If they are making plenty of money, they won't. The manager threatening that is indeed breaking the law. Your husband should vote, "Yes."

 

[Mrs. Charming]

*edited because I was answering more people than just the one quoted*

Well, there are 4 "back of the house" workers. The rest and bulk of the employees are office workers-- sales and management. The branch did go from 50-some to less than 20 since DH started there almost 5 years ago. Ouch.

I think it may be a little of both the economy and the management being stingy. They've had to lay people off, however, they're looking for an additional employee. The GM said he'd "look at" the pay of the employees last year when the union talk first started happening-- and then it never was brought up again. Like DH was going to forget or something. Riiiiight. The thing is, the other union branches didn't get a raise last year-- but they got a bonus instead. DH's "guys" didn't get anything. This year and next year they're getting either a 2 or 5% raise, meanwhile the management at DH's location are waffling and saying that the raise won't happen now, and it may or may not happen later in the year. Ugh.

A lot of this is a result of a change in GM's 2 years ago. He's just not a good manager. He's a great salesman, terrible manager. He passes the blame and wont accept responsibility for antyhing. Management probably won't change, I'm honestly a little afraid that it'll get a little bit hostile because the management is going to feel betrayed, if that makes sense. I don't think it's going to reflect well on the GM if they do go union. It's probably not reflecting well that it's gone this far. A lot of things won't change if they go union, they just might get paid a little better.

I was able to look at the union's benefits-- not a lot will change, the copays go down a bit, but ironically the hospital copays go up. The premiums do go down, though. The health benefits aren't horrible to begin with.

As for the nearest branch, it's about 15 minutes away, and they're back up to full staff and all their laid-off workers are back. The only thing I'm hoping is that if they do happen to close DH's branch, they might move them over to the other (already union) branch because union branch would be getting DH's branch's business. The thing that strikes me funny is that the GM and the ASM both said it'l close, and that they will both have jobs, whereas DH and his "guys" won't. GM actually said "they'll close the place, and I don't care!"

There's a meeting to "talk" with the management, and it's after the information session with the union rep. I think DH's biggest ally in this is information. It just stinks because whatever DH decides, he might be outvoted anyway. ::sigh::

 

[Mrs. Charming]

They always threaten to close. If they are making plenty of money, they won't. The manager threatening that is indeed breaking the law. Your husband should vote, "Yes."

I'm not sure about how much they're making at this point-- it's a huge variable. I was a little suspicious about the managers threats, though. I don't know what to think!

 

[Aristomommy]

I can tell you my experience about the hospital I worked in. The nurses decided to unionize (is that even a word?) and it ended up being a disaster. The union did not understand their unique situation and the non-union workers within the hospital ended up with better raises and benefits. It's easy to think a union will fix everything and take care of you, but in this case they had no experience in healthcare employees and raises were worse than ever. It lead to union costs without any benefit. I wish it would have helped, but truthfully the employees would have been better off by talking directly with hospital administration to find solutions to their issues.

It really depends on the union and their ability to handle employee issues within your DHs industry. Don't expect the union to be a magic fix. Most industries are not offering raises in this economy. Most are lucky to be employed.

 

[joviroxx]

Our family company has a collective bargaining agreement with local pipefitters union here . My husband, as well, is a member. Coming from someone that sees both sides of the coin, as a member and as an employer, Im not a fan of unions. I think they have outlived their usefulness .

The bigger the union, the worse it is. They have become agenda driven, to the detriment of their members and the businesses that need to employ them.

Unions can't save businesses and neither can they have their members employed if businesses can't be profitable. Funny however, our field personnel is union, our office and administrative personnel are not and I can tell you our administrative personnel has no interest in being unionized.

Good luck to you. I know there are many differing opinions on this thread, Im sure you will be able to get some insight and help you make your decision.