Question: Should scouts be encouraged to help pick up trash that's not theirs?

[twinklebug]

A situation that occurred a few weekends back has been brewing with me. The scouts (grades 7 and up) were selling popcorn and a stand set up right next to them blew apart in the wind sending plastic cups everywhere.

The other parent I was paired up with is very involved in the troop and felt we should not encourage the boys to help and that doing so would hinder getting to the other door to set up popcorn sales. I was of the exact opposite viewpoint and said I thought we could spare 60 seconds. I believe kids learn by example (both positive and negative) and that as humans, not just scouts, the environment should be of concern to us all.

What would you expect of the scouts had you witnessed this?

btw - I don't need reassurance for my actions, I feel good that I did help pick up the cups that did not blow too far away (I looked so funny doing this too as my back was giving me trouble). My son and the other boys, however, did not help as they were at the woman's heels and were sternly told not to budge. She was mad at me for taking the time since we have a 2 deep policy and she was not allowed to chaperone the boys to the other door without another adult.

 

[krcit]

I would expect anyone, Scouts or not, to help in the situation you described. Unfortunately, I have ssen way too often that that is not the case for alot of people. The whole "not my problem' mentality.

 

[Eeyore'sthebest]

I would expect anyone, Scouts or not, to help in the situation you described. Unfortunately, I have ssen way too often that that is not the case for alot of people. The whole "not my problem' mentality.

I have been associated with scouting my entire life (dragged along on gs camping trips as a pre-schooler due to mom being a leader). I now have a troop. Yes, I would have expected my girls to assist for the 60 seconds it took.

 

[jrmasm]

Can you explain the logistical issue? I didn't understand your OP. The door? Two deep?

BTW, my gut reaction would always be to help.

 

[merekc]

I agree with krcit. Common decency would be to help a person out if you are able to in that situation.

Given the details of your example, IMO the other scout leader was a terrible role model.

The only way I would not have the scouts help is if the cups were blowing into the street and they would be in danger while helping.

 

[Becky2005]

I would expect anyone, Scouts or not, to help in the situation you described. Unfortunately, I have ssen way too often that that is not the case for alot of people. The whole "not my problem' mentality.

Oh yes, I would definitely expect the Scouts to help -- "No Trace Left Behind" comes to mind and to leave places/things in better condition than you found it (if possible) -- so umm..yes, if there was any way possible, they would be helping.

Not only is it something it should do but hmm...the impression everyone else saw of the Scouts just standing there while trash was blowing around and you being the only one picking it up is NOT a good image they were portraying.

 

[anna_chronistic]

I think you were absolutely right. Kids learn by example, and how could it possibly be considered "wrong" to help someone in the situation you described? And just to hold off automatic "what if" scenarios, YES, there are other, totally different situations in which perhaps "helping" would be the wrong thing to do. But in this case? Help people out.

My brother is a Boy Scout, planning to be an Eagle Scout, and he went to the 100th anniversary Jamboree this summer. His group of ... 8, IIRC? ... picked up trash for their entire larger group (40+) every day, and at the end of the week one of the maintenance workers stopped by to personally thank them.

My understanding is that Scouts are all about leaving "nothing but footprints" behind after camping, etc., so picking up trash -- even trash that is not their own -- is sort of par for the course. Don't they know the story (legend, perhaps) of WD Boyce and the helpful scout? Helping is foundational to what Scouts do.

Side story: I tend to lose my keys, so I wear them on a lanyard around my neck nearly all the time. However, this means I am frequently mistaken for an employee of places where I am shopping. But if someone asks me if I can help them, and I CAN, of course I will. Whether it is showing them where to find something, explaining how something works, etc., I will help if I have the answer. If I don't, I find someone who can help. Why would I not? I think it's the same situation here.

 

[luvmy3]

If it were me and my troop, I would help. If it were my cups blowing all over I wouldn't expect anyone to help me but I would appreciate it if anyone did.

 

[cybrkitn]

DS8 is in Cub Scouts and I can tell you that his Pack would immediately help pick them up if that happened to someone around them. The first thing Cub Scouts learn is the Cub Scout Promise which states in there "...To help other people..." and The Law of the Pack which states as the last line "The Cub Scout gives goodwill." Scouts giving goodwill (according to DS's old Wolf handbook, he's now a Bear) means "Smile. Be happy. Do things to help others. Little things make a big difference." These are the things all scouts learn prior to becoming Boy Scouts and still apply when they graduate from Cub to Boy Scouts.

IMO, that particular parent was a bad example. You show your kids how to act by being an example and showing them how. Obviously, all she cared about was the popcorn sale and the heck with anyone else. Completely opposite of what Scouts learn.

 

[twinklebug]

OK, looks like scouts are expected to lend a helping hand. GOOD! In this day with all the "Uh oh's - Can't touch/do that's" going on it's nice to know there's still a stigma stuck with the boy scouts (and girl scouts) that they will always try to help out. I thought maybe my expectations were just old fashioned.

how could it possibly be considered "wrong" to help someone in the situation you described? And just to hold off automatic "what if" scenarios, YES, there are other, totally different situations in which perhaps "helping" would be the wrong thing to do. But in this case? Help people out.

My brother is a Boy Scout, planning to be an Eagle Scout, and he went to the 100th anniversary Jamboree this summer. His group of ... 8, IIRC? ... picked up trash for their entire larger group (40+) every day, and at the end of the week one of the maintenance workers stopped by to personally thank them.

One of the arguments used by the other woman was that the stand worker was eating a sandwich instead of chasing down cups. And indeed, yes, I hate to say the worker was standing there eating while I looked like an idiot chasing her mess... but it wasn't about her, it was about that plastic blowing into the woods and being where it shouldn't be, which is what "leave no trace" is about.

Good going for your brother! I'm in awe of how much effort it takes the kids to earn their eagles and that as many as do achieve the Eagle rank. Not 10 minutes ago I received a note from the scout master that 2 of my son's troops' boys just earned their rank of Eagle.

I'm not sure if I should say anything to the scout master about the incident. He's a great guy, a police officer, so he sees the selfish side of folk all the time I'm sure. I don't want to be a complainer, or point out that a woman who does in fact do a lot for the troop had this attitude. Then again, I think the boys should know they should lend a helping hand where possible.

 

[twinklebug]

DS8 is in Cub Scouts and I can tell you that his Pack would immediately help pick them up if that happened to someone around them. The first thing Cub Scouts learn is the Cub Scout Promise which states in there "...To help other people..." and The Law of the Pack which states as the last line "The Cub Scout gives goodwill." Scouts giving goodwill (according to DS's old Wolf handbook, he's now a Bear) means "Smile. Be happy. Do things to help others. Little things make a big difference."

IMO, that particular parent was a bad example. You show your kids how to act by being an example and showing them how. Obviously, all she cared about was the popcorn sale and the heck with anyone else. Completely opposite of what Scouts learn.

Interesting, I had forgotten the oath and laws the boys say. They're quite similar to the ones used by the Girls Scouts. Maybe the kids are saying the words and not feeling them.

Per the woman, I hate to say but I saw this attitude taken by her, and the other leaders when I led a Brownie troop many years back that she was also a leader in. Hate to see it's still there. She really is a nice person otherwise.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I would expect my scouts to jump right in and help without thinking about it. If another leader tried to stop them I would probably have started picking it up (as you did) while reciting the Girl Scout promise and law (sorry--I have a Girl Scout troop so that is what i know).

My 13 year old daughter was reading this thread just before I took her to swimming and she is appalled that the leader did that. She says if she had a leader like that she would be looking for a new troop.

 

[cybrkitn]

Interesting, I had forgotten the oath and laws the boys say. They're quite similar to the ones used by the Girls Scouts. Maybe the kids are saying the words and not feeling them.

That's what happens with anything, unfortunately. People recite things but tend to lose or forget the original meaning. It becomes nothing but empty words after awhile.

DS8, I believe, understands the Oath and Promise, b/c that's where his heart is. He loves to help out other people. It's just who he is and his father and I are very proud of him.

 

[Daisy&Max]

Can you explain the logistical issue? I didn't understand your OP. The door? Two deep?

BTW, my gut reaction would always be to help.

Two deep leadership means you must have a minimum of 2 adults present at any function. The two can be leaders or leaders and parents or parents.

I'm a tiger leader and when we go out we always clean up trash. My littlest one has been a tag along since he a year old and now he will stop in the middle of a parking lot and pick up trash and carry it until we find a trash can. It used to skeeve me out that he was touching other peoples trash (like straws food wrappers) but it hasn't killed him yet so I don't worry anymore.

Daisy

 

[KristaTX]

If I had been there and seen the Scouts helping someone else out of kindness or even duty, I'd have been persuaded to buy their popcorn and compliment them for their good deed.

 

[Wishing on a star]

My son and the other boys, however, did not help as they were at the woman's heels and were sternly told not to budge. She was mad at me

WOW..... Just wow.......

This woman has issues.
Does she have any official and sole authority????

And, the idea that one parent being a few yards away with one group of the boys is violating some chaperone policy is just insane.
(Yes, I used this word very purposefully.... insane - Not rational or normal or healthy)

This woman seems to have some real problems, and if she is the self proclaimed 'GOD' of this cub scout group...

 

[Mickeypooh99]

As a cub scout leader and a mother, my boys better help in that situation. I can't imagine what that leader was thinking. What a bad example to set. If my son had been with them, I would have told him that WE are going to help.

I would say someting to the Scout Master. I think he would want to know.

 

[Wishing on a star]

The first thing Cub Scouts learn is the Cub Scout Promise which states in there "...To help other people..." and The Law of the Pack which states as the last line "The Cub Scout gives goodwill." Scouts giving goodwill (according to DS's old Wolf handbook, he's now a Bear) means "Smile. Be happy. Do things to help others.

Yes... THIS....

 

[Tink888]

Boy Scout Oath

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

Yes, the boys should have helped and to be honest, they should know the oath, have acted on it and quoted it back to the adult in the Troop who told them not to help. These are 7th graders correct?

I wouldn't bother bringing up the other woman's actions to the Troopmaster. Yes, the woman was being selfish and un-scoutlike but there's an adult like that in every Troop. It's over and I'd just move on. Not worth the Troop drama it'll create and the potential loss of an otherwise good volunteer, unless of course, the Troop has a line of volunteers to take this woman's place.

Choose your battles.

 

[cm8]

I agree with krcit. Common decency would be to help a person out if you are able to in that situation.

Given the details of your example, IMO the other scout leader was a terrible role model.

The only way I would not have the scouts help is if the cups were blowing into the street and they would be in danger while helping.