Question for regular church-goers?

[Miss Inga Depointe]

I never made my kids go and they went hit and miss for awhile and and eventually ended up coming back to the church. They even went in college when they were away from home and it would have been hard to make them.

We kept going and I think the point is to show a good example.

I'd have a BIG talk with him about it, making sure he knows you are disappointed that he doesn't go, and how important you think it is, but that you are going to respect his wishes. Show him respect and I think that will teach him respect for the church more than if you force him.

 

[rigs32]

I thought teens did have a naturally different sleep cycle. In my school district growing up, high school was 7:30-2, middle school was 8-2:30 and elementary school was 9-3 (I think - it's been awhile). While easier on parents of little once, it's much easier for young kids to naturally get up early and much tougher for teens. So the schedule was actually leaving little ones up in plenty of time, but teens exhausted during their classes.

Just like some adults aren't morning people or night people - no matter how they try - your son may just not be able to fall asleep at 10pm and get up at 8am. When I try that, I toss and turn all night and end up with a worse day than if I'd just gone to sleep when I'm actually tired (and I'm almost 30).

 

[Miss Inga Depointe]

I thought teens did have a naturally different sleep cycle. .

You're right! I've read that if schools wanted teens to do better they'd start school for them later, because their brains function better later in the day. This is interesting:

TEEN SLEEP CYCLE

There’s a good chance that if you have a teenager, it’s not the easiest thing in the world to get him or her to wake up in the morning and get to school on time.
And believe it or not, they’re not to blame.
We adults are a large part of the reason.

Understand that teens’ brains and bodies don’t operate the same way as adults’ brains and bodies. Yet we’re forcing our kids to live our schedule, which doesn’t fit their natural biology. And as a result, we are making a society of sleep deprived, cranky and underperforming teens.

Just take, for example, 6:24 am in the McCarthy household…

“Come on Ka you have to get up,” is the typical refrain from mom Sandra.

To 16 year old kerry, the hour is downright sadistic.

“I’m pretty tired exhausted,” mumbles Kerry.

No wonder. Like all older teenagers, kerry’s body is on a different sleep cycle than that of younger kids and adults. “It usually takes me about an hour into school to be fully awake and even then I’m still not awake its too early,” says Kerry.

It is too early, according to the latest research in the journal pediatrics which followed sleep patterns through sleep diaries of incoming high school seniors like kerry. The natural biology of these older teens is to go to sleep later at night, and wake up later.

Dr. Carin Lamm, Associate Professor of Pediatrics at Mt. Sinai School of Medicine says, “The average teenager needs nine, 9 ½ hours sleep a night, they rarely get that.” Because of their sleep patterns, many stay up past 11…and with a 6:30 wake up time, more than a quarter of teens sleep 6 ½ hours or less.

“I know she goes to bed at a descent hour most of the time I know its just the age and the stage,” states Sandra.

Kerry believes, “I feel like if my day just started a little later I could have accomplished more.”

Because of the sleep deprivation, many teens are underperforming: 25 more minutes of sleep a night can actually mean the difference between an A and a C grade in a class. The study found teens actually perform better on cognitive and reaction time tests later in the day.

Even though Kerry is on her way to school, she’s not all there. “I’m feeling pretty tired I don’t even feel like I’m ready to be out around other people just because I’m totally not awake right now,” states Kerry.

And crankiness aside, there’s also a safety issue. “If you drive while you are drowsy, you are prone to automobile accidents,” says Dr. Lamm.

One answer, according to the authors: change the school schedule. Or else, the epidemic of sleep- deprived teens forced to fight-- and lose against biology--will continue.

The authors also say it’s important to educate teens of the importance of a regular bedtime to ensure enough sleep, although some teems may simply be not tired yet at that hour. They also argue that standardized tests should not begin early in the morning, which is typically done, but should start at 10 am or later.

And finally, parents need to recognize the very late sleeping teens on the weekends and during the summers are not being lazy, they’re following their natural circadian rhythm.

So let them sleep in!

 

[barkley]

not saying this is the op's situation but-i had a friend whose parent's 'house rules' were until they reached 18/graduated from highschool (if they turned 18 before grad) church attendance with mom on sunday was mandatory. did'nt matter if you were a 'believer' or not, agreed with the philiosophy of the parent's chosen church or not-just 'house rules' and taught that 'it's a responsibility to your family'. of the 5 kids in the family-2 quit going the day they were able, are complete athiests and feel that their parents required them be 'hypocrits' and 'dishonest'-they feel they were forced to 'pretend' that they were worshiping when they were not, which they beleive was disceptive and inappropriate/rude behaviours to both the pastoral staff and the church members who were attending for spiritual purposes. 2 have continued to be active church members-however the one daughter threw everyone for a 'loop' when upon marriage she began attending her dh's church which was majorly different/conflicted in faith from her parent's/her then/current stated beliefs because 'even if i don't believe it or agree with it-it's my responsibility to my new family' (dh). the son i dated was not an active member of a church-but had a strong faith and just pursued worship privatly.

i guess my thing is-with church, is forcing someone (a minor old enuf/responsible enuf to leave home alone) to go when they clearly do not want to realy in allignment with your own spiritual beliefs? do your beliefs embrace a non believer/non 'real' participant in the services? do your beliefs embrace forced participation and practices of religious services and are you comfortable knowing that your child is (if they don't believe in what is being said/done at the service) making a false statement to god and others by in all reality 'lieing' when they attend a service representing themselves as an active believer/member of your church's services? i realy think it's something that has to be considered.

 

[cybrkitn]

We do have a Sat evening service that he could attend but I guess I am being a little selfish because I enjoy attending the Sunday morning service and they don't have youth services on Sat evening for my fifth-grader. We live too far, 60 miles round-trip, to really consider doing both. To me it just is not an option to just let him have his way and not go. I am of the mind-set that he lives in my house and will live with my rules whether he likes it or not. He never complains about going on Sunday evening or Wednesday evening only Sunday morning. I asked if he wanted to quit confirmation and he said no. I think tonight I will try having him go to bed at 10. I think the problem may be that I have been letting him sleep in on Sat morning and then he stays up late on Sat night.
luvnmy2bys

I used to be just like your son. I was confirmed when I was 14. After that, I liked sleeping in on Sunday's and didn't want to give it up. That didn't change until DH and I were ready to get married. We have been regulary going for 8 years now.

Having him go to bed earlier on Saturday night is definately a good step. But I'm wondering about what you mentioned above. Are the Sunday evening and Wednesday evening services or church events? If they are services, it may be too much for him going Sunday am and pm plus Wednesday evening. You may want to go once a week instead. Especially having to drive 60 miles roundtrip.

Our church has services Saturday evening and two on Sunday mornings. Youth Group is done on Friday nights. Confirmation (we're Lutheran) is done on Wednesday evenings.

 

[KirstenB]

I just read an article in Jan's Good Housekeeping and yes teens needs tons of sleep like up to 12 hrs a night. Im betting he doesnt get that , I know my 17.5 yr olds doesnt. How about picking another service time he can hit? My parents always made me go, but it actually wasnt so bad. I saw lots of friends, but of course i would rather sleep. My parents had a rule, you dont make it to church on Sunday, you dont get to do ANYTHING on Sunday afternoon with your friends and in my small hometown that was the kiss of death when you were a teenager. Everyone hung out in the park and went cruising, it was as big as a friday night out, so I never wanted to miss that!

OP, thanks for posting the question. I know we'll be dealing with this in the next few years.

Ilovejack, I'm stealing your parents' rule. I love this rule. DD1 is big time social, so this is very relevant for her. Thanks!!!!!!!

 

[CourtasanSatine]

I stopped going once I hit HS. But once my parents saw I was still doing church things(like FCA meetings and youth group) then it made sense. Granted I am a social person and none of my close friends went to the local church.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Growing up going to church on Sunday was no different than going to school on Monday for my parents and my aunts and uncles, if you weren't barfing up a lung you were going. I went through a period in college where I didn't go, but that only lasted a couple of months because I missed it. Then, I went through another phase in my early 30's where I didn't think it was necessary to go, went through a New Age/Agnostic thing which lasted about a year. As an example of how what goes around comes around, I'm back to my Mother's old rule: if I'm not barfing up a lung, I'm at Mass on Sunday.

Having rules isn't a bad thing. My cousins and I all have good jobs, pay our bills and seem to be pretty normal as normal goes, even though our parents insisted that we work hard in school, do our chores and attend Church on Sundays. If we were tired, we went to bed earlier or we went to Church sleepy and relied on each other for a shake if we fell asleep during the sermon.

 

[CEDmom]

My DD is only 7 so we haven't hit this problem yet. However, my mom had some problems with getting my brothers to church at that age. What she did was require that we attend until confirmed and after that it was our choice.

 

[Disney Ella]

I mean I never understand why people force thier kids to go, if they dont want to be there then they are probbably not getting anything out of it. I mean isn't the point of going to church spiritual growth and fellowship not b/c your mom made you. My mom always asked me if I wanted to go and I did occasionally.

I was forced to go to church and all I got out of it was a hatred for organized religion. You can force someone to go to church but you can't force someone to believe and forcing religion on someone is more likely to turn them against religion. In my mother's case, I think it was a "what would people think?" kind of thing if we didn't all show up to church because people used to make comments about how nice it was to see all of her kids in church. I may have been there in body, but definitely not in spirit.

It seems to me that there's plenty of time for religion in your son's life if he chooses, why force it on him?

 

[Wishing on a star]

Haven't read the replies...

You ask, do teenagers need that much sleep?
Yes! Some of them do.

Also, their sleep cycles are different than young children or older adults (who can go to bed early, sleep, wake up rested at dawn....)

I am thinking that there is probably some good info online about this subject. I know it has been in the news a few times over the past year or two. Especially related to the fact that most High Schools begin very early in the morning nowadays!

I guess my advice would be to open up the lines of communication, give your kids a bit of leeway, and go from there. I am not so sure that a hard-line is the way to go?

 

[schmitty]

Once he gets confirmed let him decide if he wants to go or not.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Our parish has the lifeteen mass--a real hit with the tweens and teens and it is very much the younger generation at that particular mass. It has improved worshipping for the youth so that they can appreciate the mass more. A bit more contemporary without detracting from the mass.

If you are Catholic--you might consider checking your parish for this or maybe another.

The mass is at 6pm on Sunday evening--so no worries of waking the teens too early to go to mass and having them grumble.

They also have some lifteen activities afterwards--attendance is hindered for that due to space limitations as a result of our parish hall having to be demolished after the 2004 hurricanes..but they do get a good showing despite the sardine feel.

We have a big youth group and they are always planning trips to things like Night of Joy as well as camps (I forget what they are called--they aren't really mission trips....I guess retreats?).

When I went to college--that is where I joined with the Catholic church--but evidently there is a period..typically when the kids go away to college--that they will leave the church for a bit....by the time they graduate--or go off and get married, some do make their way back.

Something like "Lifeteen" that our parish offers (it is a national program....but not all parishes have this)...tries to help teens make the choice to continue going to church. We see a lot of teens come home on college break and come to church voluntarily--to see friends, and enjoy what our community has to offer.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Once he gets confirmed let him decide if he wants to go or not.

I'd let them decide before confirmation. No point in getting confirmed if they are "done" with church as that is not what confirmation is. It isn't a graduation from having to go to church any more.

 

[BibbidiBobbidiBOO]

My kids are involved in the youth program at our Church and have lots of friends there. They can hardly wait to go! In fact they are bringing in the New Year with this group. Sometimes WE want to sleep in, but they won't let us!

I will admit our youth group is one of the best I have ever heard of. They offer many activities and trips, and kids who don't even go to our Church will go to Wed. night youth group as they have so much fun. Bands, college sports "stars", etc often show up. It has been a BIG plus in DS's life. DD is just getting old enough to be a part of this group.

 

[JennyMominRI]

not saying this is the op's situation but-i had a friend whose parent's 'house rules' were until they reached 18/graduated from highschool (if they turned 18 before grad) church attendance with mom on sunday was mandatory. did'nt matter if you were a 'believer' or not, agreed with the philiosophy of the parent's chosen church or not-just 'house rules' and taught that 'it's a responsibility to your family'. of the 5 kids in the family-2 quit going the day they were able, are complete athiests and feel that their parents required them be 'hypocrits' and 'dishonest'-they feel they were forced to 'pretend' that they were worshiping when they were not, which they beleive was disceptive and inappropriate/rude behaviours to both the pastoral staff and the church members who were attending for spiritual purposes. 2 have continued to be active church members-however the one daughter threw everyone for a 'loop' when upon marriage she began attending her dh's church which was majorly different/conflicted in faith from her parent's/her then/current stated beliefs because 'even if i don't believe it or agree with it-it's my responsibility to my new family' (dh). the son i dated was not an active member of a church-but had a strong faith and just pursued worship privatly.

i guess my thing is-with church, is forcing someone (a minor old enuf/responsible enuf to leave home alone) to go when they clearly do not want to realy in allignment with your own spiritual beliefs? do your beliefs embrace a non believer/non 'real' participant in the services? do your beliefs embrace forced participation and practices of religious services and are you comfortable knowing that your child is (if they don't believe in what is being said/done at the service) making a false statement to god and others by in all reality 'lieing' when they attend a service representing themselves as an active believer/member of your church's services? i realy think it's something that has to be considered.

I have t say I'm on your side...You just can't force religion on someone..Yes,when you are younger you don't have much say,but I just can't imagine forcing a teen to attend a religious service...You just can't force someone to have a relationship with G-d.
It sure didn't work for me.

 

[luvnmy2bys]

Here is the compromise that we worked out with DS. Once a month we will attend Sat evening service as a family. Then one Sunday morning a month he can choose to stay home. The other two Sundays he will go with us to Sun morning services. For the person who asked about going Sunday evening and Wednesday nights and maybe that was a little too much. Well Sunday night is Confirmation classes and Wednesday night is youth group. He never complains about those. I wish that they more of an age focused group on Sunday mornings but those end at 5th grade. We attend this church because it is the closest to us that has a large youth group and is our religion. We live about 25 minutes from Austin so there is nothing closer except very small churches where the age of the parisioners tend to be more elderly. My belief is that at this age(13) he is still to young to make a decision about not attending church at all. I know many will disagree but that is just how I believe. Just as most of you would not let your child just stop attending school because they didn't feel up to it. I feel his religious education is just as important as his school education. He still needs guidance at his age.
Thanks everyone for your ideas. I did research about how much sleep teens need and I had no idea. I will be a little more understanding of this in the future. I thought he was just being lazy.

luvnmy2bys

 

[castleview]

I'm in the compromise/don't push it corner. It's not unusual for a kid (or adult) to not want to go to church. My mother forced me to go every Sunday -- and stay after longer than everyone else since she was the Sunday school director. After my comfirmation, she finally gave up and I didn't go during high school except for holidays. Eventually, I found my way back to church. It was something I had to do on my own and maybe I would have gotten into church sooner had it not been shoved down my throat - that's how I felt as a teenager. Would you allow a day off from church with him once in a while?

 

[tiggerlover]

I grew up in a family where everyone went to church except dad. Mom was protestant and dad was catholic. I went to church every Sunday no matter what, if I stayed home because I was sick, I was sick all day and had to stay in bed. I eventually resented my mother for forcing me to go to church/Sunday School, especially since none of my friends did. I got married at 19 to a man who grew up going to church and SS, but we elected not to go to church after we married. I still believed in God and still said my prayers, but at that point in my life I didn't feel I needed to go to a service to be faithful. 10 years went by and we only went to church on the major holidays, then we had DS and the calling for us to return to church was strong so we returned to the church. My DS (10-1/2) attends church with us every Sunday and goes to Sunday School, we have not had any issues of him not wanting to go yet. When and if it does come up I think we would have a discussion about it and see what kind of compromise we can come up with (later service or something). Even though I felt forced to go to church I think I would still require DS to go as I was made to do because I still learned about God and I was still faithful even if I wasn't worshipping in a church. So if DS decides at some point not to go my hope will be that he would some day return to the fold like his dad and I did. If sleep were an issure I would try to compromise on a different service or make him go to bed earlier Saturday night.

 

[N&B'smom]

I've gone to church regularly since I was little. My parents never had to force me to go. Don't get me wrong, some Sundays I didn't necessarily feel like going but I still went. I had good friends there and enjoyed it. Now that I'm a parent, I can tell you that my children will go to church while they live in my house. That will be a rule in our house. We are church goers and while they live with us, they will be church goers as well. It's important for a kid to learn that just because they don't feel like doing it, doesn't mean they don't have to do it. I have no problem with them skipping some times because they need a day off or have something special going on. But generally speaking, they WILL attend church.

Heck, I'm a grown up and don't always feel like going, but I know that it's good for me to go. I can always get something out of it.

Shelby